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Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:12:00 -
[1]
It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:13:00 -
[2]
NO ****?
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Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:15:00 -
[3]
In conclusion anyone who grinds for ISK is massively wasting time. Time you will never get back, time you wont be able to spend with your girlf....... nvm
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:18:00 -
[4]
Totally agree with the OP, unless of course you enjoy the "grind" like I do from time to time. ~Gnosis~ |
Kunming
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:21:00 -
[5]
And thats why I'm advocating that ETC/GTC/PLEX or any RMT legal/illegal is breaking the game, since the concept of GTC was ever published.
Ever since PLEX, EVE has been turning into Counter Strike in space abit more everyday.
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Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:21:00 -
[6]
Even looking at the biggest and most reputable isk selling site you can buy 400mill for $12 (7 euros). So one hours work in real life gets you 1 plex and 75mill left over.
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:23:00 -
[7]
Well I can't exactly go out and go "hey, I'd like to work another 3 hours today to fund my MMO". Most people have fixed work hours, and thus fixed incomes, and spending RL $$ for PLEX is just about the absolute bottom of my list for things to spend money on.
Many of us make more than 125m an hour too, keep that in mind. Trading, industry, and some other creative occupations can absolutely make far more than 125m an hour. Of course in trading and industry there is usually a set-up cost time wise, but once the routes or production lines are paying off, it's often more than 125m per hour for the actual work you put in day to day assuming you have sufficient capital to work with.
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Xtreem
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:25:00 -
[8]
I agree with the OP, i managed to stumble on a few money makers in game that made me rich enough to pay with isk from plex and won't have to earn any isk other than for fun for the next few years or so, but I earn a good wage IRL, and if isk ever was needed i would prob just buy some GTC.
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:25:00 -
[9]
To many making isk is not a grind, its fun. So its how we play. Besides, someone has to have the isk to buy your PLEXs.
Also as Im salaried, working an extra hour does not result in an extra hour of pay. To make more money Id have to get a second job. There are very few jobs out there that involve just one hour a week of work.
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Uuali
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:25:00 -
[10]
Tell this to the fanboi nerds on daddy's credit card.
This is what people don't understand about the difference in PLEX and MT win items (if implemented). It's not the effect of being able to get an uber ship to win a fight. It is about straight out buying a win vehicle period vs. simply buying isk to do all the other things you can do in the game but don't have the time in which to grind.
I buy PLEX to catch up with the high schoolers who have the summer off to play this game. If you are an adult with a job and grind that much on this game you are one sad individual.
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Jita Jenn
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:26:00 -
[11]
Yes, let's all just buy plex instead of running missions or plexes. Didn't want all that faction ammo or those 1 billion isk deadspace mods anyway.
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Jose Black
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:28:00 -
[12]
If you have the feeling you're grinding and wasting time in a game you should not stop thinking at how you could optimize it. Instead you should just leave the game it altogether and use your time properly elsewhere.
I for myself play for the fun of it. If I can pile up ISK and assets while having a good time it's even better.
Also taking part in a community that is spread all around the world even in far countries I'll probably never visit in person is not socializing? I do socialize far less being at work I'm afraid. Again if you miss socializing in game you're doing it wrong - in my opinion.
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Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:30:00 -
[13]
I totally agree with OP and to that end, Ive decided to utilise his revolutionary theories to revamp the way I live my life.
For instance, its a much more efficent use of my time to work for a few days, buy a gun and shoot kasparov rather than foolishly spending years learning strategies, engaging in multiple pointless matches and finally approaching some level of mastery of a game.
Owai...
From wikipedia : A game is structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool. Games are distinct from work, which is usually carried out for remuneration.
Believe it not there ARE some people who play for the fun of the competition. A r/l friend who is well on his way to being a millionare (the ****) hasnt spent a r/l penny on this game in years. Every hour he spends on here literally costs him hundreds of dollars. But what price fun and a sense of achievement?
So OP...technically your correct, but I also suspect your the kind of guy who puts ringers into friendly softball games. Its more efficient, amirite?
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Tammarr
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:31:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tammarr on 12/07/2011 14:32:06 posting to confirm my grinding with two characters only gives a sustainable 350m/hour income =( edit: +1 hour per week average lost to trading the goods away.
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Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jose Black If you have the feeling you're grinding and wasting time in a game you should not stop thinking at how you could optimize it. Instead you should just leave the game it altogether and use your time properly elsewhere.
I for myself play for the fun of it. If I can pile up ISK and assets while having a good time it's even better.
Also taking part in a community that is spread all around the world even in far countries I'll probably never visit in person is not socializing? I do socialize far less being at work I'm afraid. Again if you miss socializing in game you're doing it wrong - in my opinion.
You are so attacking when i havent even mentioned anything about my gaming habits. I love playing eve. I much rather spend an hour or 2 working and buy a plex to sell at the end of it than grind indoors for a fraction of the isk a hour. Only a small number of professions let you grind for isk as a team in eve otherwise its you doing it solo. I socialise enough in eve and withput having to grind i can spend 90% of my time doing stuff with corpmates, i dont know why you posted that last sentence
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:33:00 -
[16]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 12/07/2011 14:34:38
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
That's basically correct.
Quote: No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
Assuming that your post attempts to advise people to stop grinding and work RL instead: This is where your logic breaks down. ISK != Euro. Real life work is paid in real life cash, which you exchange for ISK. This exchange can only work if people generate isk, which is only possible through grind. More people following your advice would raise the Ç:ISK exchange ratio and affect your calculation accordingly. You'd have to put in more RL work per ISK.
So in essence: BE careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
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Kunming
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jose Black If you have the feeling you're grinding and wasting time in a game you should not stop thinking at how you could optimize it. Instead you should just leave the game it altogether and use your time properly elsewhere.
I for myself play for the fun of it. If I can pile up ISK and assets while having a good time it's even better.
Also taking part in a community that is spread all around the world even in far countries I'll probably never visit in person is not socializing? I do socialize far less being at work I'm afraid. Again if you miss socializing in game you're doing it wrong - in my opinion.
+1
The only thing I socialize with at work is the render server.
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Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gurgeh Murat I totally agree with OP and to that end, Ive decided to utilise his revolutionary theories to revamp the way I live my life.
For instance, its a much more efficent use of my time to work for a few days, buy a gun and shoot kasparov rather than foolishly spending years learning strategies, engaging in multiple pointless matches and finally approaching some level of mastery of a game.
Owai...
From wikipedia : A game is structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool. Games are distinct from work, which is usually carried out for remuneration.
Believe it not there ARE some people who play for the fun of the competition. A r/l friend who is well on his way to being a millionare (the ****) hasnt spent a r/l penny on this game in years. Every hour he spends on here literally costs him hundreds of dollars. But what price fun and a sense of achievement?
So OP...technically your correct, but I also suspect your the kind of guy who puts ringers into friendly softball games. Its more efficient, amirite?
Ive been playing eve for years, i know how everything is run. It is far easier for me to buy a plex and get a pvp ship than do all that grindign for isk.
Yes maybe buying plexes isnt good for newbies who have no idea buy for people who have a clue about the game is it far more efficient. By running lvl4s for hours doesnt teach you how to pvp in 0.0
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Flynn Fetladral
Caldari BlackSite Prophecy
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:36:00 -
[19]
lol while I've come to agree with this somewhat. I'd also say there is ways to make a lot of isk in EVE Online for not a massive amount of effort if you invest your time wisely. I seriously hate the grind, I wanna come on and do something like pvp, or whatever with my friends. But it comes down to the individual, some people like running L4 missions or mining, or whatever they do. Follow Flynn on Twitter |
Cpt Greagor
Caldari Liquid Relief
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:36:00 -
[20]
And I suddenly start working overtime.
------------------------------ Inclina ad gigas turtur, qui tenet universum. |
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Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 12/07/2011 14:34:38
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
That's basically correct.
Quote: No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
Assuming that your post attempts to advise people to stop grinding and work RL instead: This is where your logic breaks down. ISK != Euro. Real life work is paid in real life cash, which you exchange for ISK. This exchange can only work if people generate isk, which is only possible through grind. More people following your advice would raise the Ç:ISK exchange ratio and affect your calculation accordingly. You'd have to put in more RL work per ISK.
So in essence: BE careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
The logic does not break down. Working in RL WILL give you a better rate of return than grinding in most professions in eve. There is always going to be an abundance of isk in EVE
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Eliza Capri
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:42:00 -
[22]
Psht. I'm guessing no one ever told the OP about this little thing called MACRO MINING?
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Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:44:00 -
[23]
I like to have an alt logged on hunting out miners and bumping them away from their 'roids whilst I grind.
I can't see nothing wrong with a little bump and grind...
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Jose Black
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alisha Firesale [..] i dont know why you posted that last sentence
Well, pretty much because of that: Originally by: Alisha Firesale Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
If you insist you have to grind solo for the most effect you may have a valid point there. Still I don't agree. I solo if I feel like it and join a team if I feel like it. Also while for example running missions solo you could still socialize, even if you're not in a fleet.
Again -in my opinion - if grinding or "being indoor for isk" even comes to your mind while playing you're doing it wrong to begin with. It is a game - you should either enjoy it or leave it.
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Gurgeh Murat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Alisha Firesale
Ive been playing eve for years, i know how everything is run. It is far easier for me to buy a plex and get a pvp ship than do all that grindign for isk.
Yes maybe buying plexes isnt good for newbies who have no idea buy for people who have a clue about the game is it far more efficient. By running lvl4s for hours doesnt teach you how to pvp in 0.0
I would agree its easier, but do we play eve for it to be easy?. I check my markets for half to an hour a day and make 2-4 hundred million. I also enjoy every second of gouging people on the markets. My isk came from enjoyment, not work. Its not easy, but still an enjoyable game.
I gotta say I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but working for my isk aint one
This incidentally was one of the "stick in the craw" things from the recent forum ****fest, the potential of easy pay to win buttons. I know its here already in the form of plex, still dont make it right, not for me anyways.
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Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jose Black
Originally by: Alisha Firesale [..] i dont know why you posted that last sentence
Well, pretty much because of that: Originally by: Alisha Firesale Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
If you insist you have to grind solo for the most effect you may have a valid point there. Still I don't agree. I solo if I feel like it and join a team if I feel like it. Also while for example running missions solo you could still socialize, even if you're not in a fleet.
Again -in my opinion - if grinding or "being indoor for isk" even comes to your mind while playing you're doing it wrong to begin with. It is a game - you should either enjoy it or leave it.
Ohh yea dont get me wrong, ill going a mission fleet or do some mining with a bunch of guys in corp but i dont think it gives out anywhere near the isk/hour ratio than working in RL to buy plexes.
I work more to be able to buy plexes to sell. I then have the isk to do anything i want, i can run missions with corp, mine, go pvp, trade in jita...etc My fun in eve has gone up because i dont do any solo grinding for isk, all i do in eve is to have fun without any isk worries
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kunming And thats why I'm advocating that ETC/GTC/PLEX or any RMT legal/illegal is breaking the game, since the concept of GTC was ever published.
Ever since PLEX, EVE has been turning into Counter Strike in space abit more everyday.
This^^
It's clear that working at normal job is more profitable (if you covert $$$ to ISK) than sucking roids or blowing up NPC's. One hour at the office can earn me more than 1 plex. Let's say, plex is 375 mill. That means that in less than 1h I can earn more than 375mill ISK. There's no Eve profession that allows this. And unlike some ppl in this thread, I can work as many hours as I want and the boss will only say "Thank you" .
Question is - if it's good for the game. Answer is (IMHO of course) - no, it's very bad for the game. Eve was always about consequences. But I don't care about consequences if all it takes is sitting for 20 more minutes in front of the monitor (something I will probably have to do in any case).
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Corp AdminSec
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:01:00 -
[28]
In my work I can buy 2 plexes an hour. Every so often id buy two and sell them for 750mill. I dont waste a single second missioning, trading or mining to make isk for personal gain because its a waste of time. This gives me more time to have fun in RL without having to grind for the next ship and gives me time to progress the corp by doign stuff noone else wants to do
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Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:03:00 -
[29]
It depends what you enjoy.
(and any time for $ analysis has to take into account after tax money, ability and desire to work extra hours for extra pay (salary employees don't get extra pay nor are all hourly employees offered unlimmited over-time), family budgets and demands for disposable incomes like choices of summer camps for kids vs extra isk, etc.)
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
You fail at eve and deserve to pay RL money for it. Thank you for the PLEX's jackass.
. Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:08:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
You fail at eve and deserve to pay RL money for it. Thank you for the PLEX's jackass.
I can easily afford 3 Plexes with one extra hour of work. I would much rather that than say in my pitchblack mothers basement grinding missions for 32 hours to get a fraction of what i made in an hour
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:10:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Alisha Firesale
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
You fail at eve and deserve to pay RL money for it. Thank you for the PLEX's jackass.
I can easily afford 3 Plexes with one extra hour of work. I would much rather that than say in my pitchblack mothers basement grinding missions for 32 hours to get a fraction of what i made in an hour
Which is why you fail at eve. Again, thanks. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:34:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Alisha Firesale
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
You fail at eve and deserve to pay RL money for it. Thank you for the PLEX's jackass.
I can easily afford 3 Plexes with one extra hour of work. I would much rather that than say in my pitchblack mothers basement grinding missions for 32 hours to get a fraction of what i made in an hour
Which is why you fail at eve. Again, thanks.
I prefer failing at Eve to failing at life.
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Corp AdminSec
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Alisha Firesale
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
You fail at eve and deserve to pay RL money for it. Thank you for the PLEX's jackass.
I can easily afford 3 Plexes with one extra hour of work. I would much rather that than say in my pitchblack mothers basement grinding missions for 32 hours to get a fraction of what i made in an hour
Which is why you fail at eve. Again, thanks.
^ obviously cant afford to buy plexes or dad wont let him use his CC
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Perditus Peregrinus
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:44:00 -
[35]
It's not like the ISK just comes out of nowhere. If everybody bought GTCs to sell PLEX with and nobody made money through ingame means, there would be a problem.
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Alxea
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:50:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Alxea on 12/07/2011 15:51:50
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
Its funny that you say that. Because I only lift a finger every 3 months to make my isk. Besides the other night in w-space I made 200mil in a hour and that was only a C3. On the same day I made 500mil in trade. I lost count after I past about 20 bil... I don't keep track of how much isk I have in assets. I need to liquidate my T2 BS production from highsec witch is I don't know how many billions worth of T2 components and moon goo. lol A few mil m3 for sure.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:02:00 -
[37]
I haven't paid for my 8 accounts since 2008 or whenever plex were introduced. I do about 2-3 hours of 'grind' a month in game to afford both the accounts and whatever ships I use.
It is better and more time efficient to not grind for ISK and keep your real life money for real life things. Thinking in ISK per hour is for scrubs who don't know how to genuinely make money. ~~~
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Borun Tal
Minmatar Just Abide
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:08:00 -
[38]
OP: like the saying says, "Stupid is as stupid does."
Nothing in Eve pays 125m per hour? lrn2play ftw.
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Jose Black
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.12 17:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Alisha Firesale There is always going to be an abundance of isk in EVE
I can't help feeling you don't understand the greater correlations. If that statement was true selling PLEX for isk would simply not work.
Originally by: Alisha Firesale I can easily afford 3 Plexes with one extra hour of work. I would much rather that than say in my pitchblack mothers basement grinding missions for 32 hours to get a fraction of what i made in an hour
While that wasn't addressed specifically at me I'd still like to note that I've got two large windows in the room where I use to play. Facing south even and no curtains or sunblinds either. Pitch black is not going to happen. Also I lost a ship now and then going for a walk in the garden while being in a mission, but still no abundance of ISK.
Don't get me wrong either. I both used to buy GTC with ISK and sell PLEX for ISK in the past. I'm not against the feature. But in my opinion your initial statement could use some thinking in a broader scope. It's just not that simple. It looks smart-assed - and I hate that.
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Ana Vyr
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:26:00 -
[40]
The way I look at it is that making money inside the game using the game mechanics is part of the game. Why play a game you don't want to play? Buying in game currency is cheating to me.
I'm a roleplayer though, so I likely see things differently that some of you other folks.
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Corp AdminSec
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Jose Black
Originally by: Alisha Firesale There is always going to be an abundance of isk in EVE
I can't help feeling you don't understand the greater correlations. If that statement was true selling PLEX for isk would simply not work.
Originally by: Alisha Firesale I can easily afford 3 Plexes with one extra hour of work. I would much rather that than say in my pitchblack mothers basement grinding missions for 32 hours to get a fraction of what i made in an hour
While that wasn't addressed specifically at me I'd still like to note that I've got two large windows in the room where I use to play. Facing south even and no curtains or sunblinds either. Pitch black is not going to happen. Also I lost a ship now and then going for a walk in the garden while being in a mission, but still no abundance of ISK.
Don't get me wrong either. I both used to buy GTC with ISK and sell PLEX for ISK in the past. I'm not against the feature. But in my opinion your initial statement could use some thinking in a broader scope. It's just not that simple. It looks smart-assed - and I hate that.
Its pretty simple... working in real life gets you more isk/hour than most professions in eve.
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Pure Tabasco
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:30:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
What about people that doesn't have a decent job?? Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:31:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lady Spank I haven't paid for my 8 accounts since 2008 or whenever plex were introduced. I do about 2-3 hours of 'grind' a month in game to afford both the accounts and whatever ships I use.
It is better and more time efficient to not grind for ISK and keep your real life money for real life things. Thinking in ISK per hour is for scrubs who don't know how to genuinely make money.
If someone has a great deal of disposable income then they can afford to do it but obv if you are just scraping by then dont. Dont whine if you cant afford it.
So you make 3 bill in 4 hours grinding to fund your 8 characters? Most people cant do what you do because if it was that easy and simple everyone would be doing it
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Dbars Grinding
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:47:00 -
[44]
A lot of mad peasants irl in this thread. Think i will buy 6 plex just for the lolz.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:57:00 -
[45]
Quote:
I prefer failing at Eve to failing at life.
Sounds like you have tried both and made an informed decision. Therefore you are not trolling. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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DECEPTIBROW
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:59:00 -
[46]
Edited by: DECEPTIBROW on 12/07/2011 19:01:56
Originally by: Dbars Grinding A lot of mad peasants irl in this thread. Think i will buy 6 plex just for the lolz.
This is why Eve hasn't been a competitive mmo since plex.
I personally don't care at all when I loose a ship because I am wealthy irl and have practically unlimited isk.
And just to be clear before PLEX most of us wouldn't buy from RMT'ers because I would never risk my accounts being banned.
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Neftaran
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Posted - 2011.07.12 19:01:00 -
[47]
That would be fine if majority of people only played 1 account. The game mechanics pretty much force you into multiple accounts if you wish to play more than one aspect of the game. I don't know to many people that would be willing to pay out 6,9,12,15+ hours of their paycheck to play.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2011.07.12 19:33:00 -
[48]
Originally by: DECEPTIBROW I personally don't care at all when I loose a ship because I am wealthy irl and have practically unlimited isk.
And just to be clear before PLEX most of us wouldn't buy from RMT'ers because I would never risk my accounts being banned.
Agreed to both statements.
I play to have fun, grinding is no fun so I buy GTC's for my ISK. It's a win win, I'm happy, buyer is happy and all sanctioned by CCP. Ant the number of GTC's I see being sold tells me ALOT of people out there do the same. I only use my On-Call pay for GTC's which I get simply by carrying a pager. 45 minutes of RL income gets me a GTC I can sell for 700 Million. I have 6 accounts, pay cash for all of them.
But for me it goes a lot further. I am disabled and unable to do much and get out. I work, play PC Games mostly EVE and watch TV while playing. It all keeps me from going insane from boredom.
I'd give it all up in a heartbeat to have my health back...
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Qansh
Gallente Triskelion Ouroboros
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Posted - 2011.07.12 19:36:00 -
[49]
What I liked about EVE (I'm back after a couple of years away) is that it felt like a closed little petri-dish of an environment where whatever happens in EVE stays in EVE and whatever happens outside of EVE can't get in. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not the world's greatest economist), but even botters, gold-sellers, or what-not had to make their money through the grind, whatever their motivation. It was a sealed world. Am I right?
Now, I can't say I have a problem at all with the Aurum/Vanity side of things. What's discouraging is how what should essentially be (or feels essentially like) two different games (as measured most obviously by their different valuations) are being mashed together into one game world. I just don't get that. One of the glories of EVE as it was was that everything had an explanation (down to the camera drones why-you-are-seeing-your-ship-from-the-outside thing). I loved that. Loved it. It was a tightly sealed, totally explainable world, a game without Hand Waves!
You bring this other world into that and you break it. BUT you could still have that other world and a cool social game on the inside with vanity and what-have you purchases up the kazoo. That could all matter in terms of how you relate to people or advance with them socially (say, by looking good in the latest fashions). You could even make it possible to make money in THAT world. What you couldn't do is let pilots flood the vanity markets with untold billions of ISK or vendors buying battleships with monocles.
I see that working because it would maintain a hard dividing line. People could play the game they wanted, or both. Most importantly, it would maintain the core spaceship game as that neat little-petri dish that was one of its attractions. The social game could/would embrace and love the petri dish. If the social game went free-to-play it could even support the petri-dish. That to me would be the continuance and even ehancement of EVE-love. The vanity game should be a social mediator to the actual game, much like a glorified, 3-D iPod app on your computer.
If CCP could do that and stop any illogic bleed-through, then I'd be a happy space-pilot indeed.
The one fly in the ointment to this, I guess, is DUST 514. It wants to be more than a vanity game. It wants to have real effects in the world of EVE. I guess you could have a situation where a corp having massive ISK might wonder why it can't afford a special rifle planet-side, but the fact is that they can, because you can, because EVE made you better! (Hey, it works for me). So fork over that twenty bucks, pilot.
I could live with that... or, as an alternative, be willing to put planet-side to a dice-roll if I didn't like the color of whatever "black box" was on offer.
I'll leave it to economists or game-designers to suggest what I might be missing here, but I know what I'm feeling.
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Kurfin
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Posted - 2011.07.12 20:11:00 -
[50]
Grinding for ISK is less soul destroying than going to work, especially if you work in accounts. And it's not like I can work longer AND get paid for it.
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Beavizzz
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.12 23:17:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours
4/5 of the World don't agree with you, because "over 80 % of the world population lives on less than 10 US$/day." (Wiki)
USA+EU != Whole world !!!
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Thomas Orca
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.12 23:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Beavizzz
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours
4/5 of the World don't agree with you, because "over 80 % of the world population lives on less than 10 US$/day." (Wiki)
USA+EU != Whole world !!!
Those people have a little more to worry about then EVE
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Shova Kais
Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2011.07.13 00:04:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Alisha Firesale grinding missions
I've found your problem.
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Grapy
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Posted - 2011.07.13 00:20:00 -
[54]
Calculated today: if I use money from one day of my real life work to purchase PLEXes and sell them for ISK - I'll have more money than I was able to gather during first year in EVE.
Now I cannot see any point in mining/missions/WH/PI/industty/trading/etc anymore. Even PvP doesn't feel interesting now because I realized I can purchase like 30-50 Dramiels (or equipped Drakes/Hurricanes) daily if needed.
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Bklyn 1
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Posted - 2011.07.13 00:31:00 -
[55]
Is it my imagination, or is this a stealth 'how do I make lots of isk' thread?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.07.13 00:48:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Alisha Firesale No [...] profession in eve pays out 125 million isk an hour.
I beg to differ.
Quite a few things in EVE yield noticeably more than 125 mil ISK/hour. And some of them are grind-based.
In fact, it is not just theoretically, but also practically possible to have an income well in excess of 1 bil ISK per actual hour "worked" in trading... hell, even much more. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2011.07.13 01:01:00 -
[57]
The problem is, if everyone just bought the gtc's and sold for isk, then nobody would be out there grinding the isk...
At the extreme end of that, you end up being able to charge less isk for your GTC, and then the opposite becomes true, it'd be easy to earn a plex worth of isk in a few hours. Left to it's own devices, the economy will balance itself out to a price that slightly favors the earners of real cash.
Factor in that most people are just lazy, they'l just buy GTC cos the idea of grinding sucks, and you'l see a steady decline in amount of isk earners in game. Coupled with nerfs to 0.0 ratting, massive controversies, and many other factors, and you find a market with tens of thousands of gtcs floating on it.
It's about that time that you realize that your company spent all the money you took from those GTC's, and you no longer wish to honor the sale, so you introduce some shiny clothes or something to make them go away, and make people pay for their game time again...
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2011.07.13 01:28:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Soi Mala The problem is, if everyone just bought the gtc's and sold for isk, then nobody would be out there grinding the isk...
But that's never gonna happen. So everything works out. I get my ISK, the buyer of my GTC gets to play...
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.13 01:49:00 -
[59]
I use passive income like R&D agents and BP R&D to pay for my PLEX. Yes there was an initial grind, but now I need only spend an hour a month collecting datacores and managing my R&D jobs, and most of that is travel with my doing something else at the same time. -- The Door! |
Flakey Foont
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Posted - 2011.07.13 01:59:00 -
[60]
What grind? You can't help but make ISK enough to pay the rent...
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Maverick2011
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.13 02:18:00 -
[61]
In the other hand buying your way to victory in a game defeats its purpose. Depends on the player point of view.
Imho MMORPG all have grind and its part of the fun process of getting "stronger". Putting a gameshark code for infinite money pretty much facks all sense of accomplishment to me.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.13 03:54:00 -
[62]
Few things wrong with the OPs logic:
1) You assume that everyone has the ability to just work a couple extra hours/get another job. Easier said than done.
2)You're comparing working at a job to grinding in an MMO. If playing eve bothers you that much, maybe you should find a hobby you actually enjoy? Alternately, if you want to play eve in a more CS in space sort of way, why not hop on the test server and forget about all this silliness WRT worrying about isk?
3)125mil an hour is the amount you're boasting? That's what a moderately competent dual boxing highsec level 4 mission runner can pull in. Some people (such as myself) can use more toons to pull in notably more, but dual boxing lvl 4s is a fairly easy task, requires little effort, and entails actually playing a game you supposedly enjoy playing. |
Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2011.07.13 05:57:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Alisha Firesale No [...] profession in eve pays out 125 million isk an hour.
I beg to differ.
Quite a few things in EVE yield noticeably more than 125 mil ISK/hour. And some of them are grind-based.
In fact, it is not just theoretically, but also practically possible to have an income well in excess of 1 bil ISK per actual hour "worked" in trading... hell, even much more.
125 mill ISK per hour can be done in game. I'm talking about 400 mill ISK per hour. You say it can be done with trading? Yes, you are probably right, but don't you need several billions in operating capital to make this much in trading? And how you get those? Grind? Or buy GTC's? If I buy GTC's for that, why not buy GTC's to actually play and bypass the grind in any form altogether? And don't make a mistake/ I'd prefer a game without ANY RMT and without ANY multiboxing. But if the game makes it possible for me to avoid "less fun" aspects of ISK making, why not use it? I have other hobbies than Eve' like stamp collecting and travelling. They cost MUCH more than that $15, so if Eve makes CCP sanctioned RMT legal, why not use that?
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Josefine Etrange
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.13 06:11:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jose Black If you have the feeling you're grinding and wasting time in a game you should not stop thinking at how you could optimize it. Instead you should just leave the game it altogether and use your time properly elsewhere.
I for myself play for the fun of it. If I can pile up ISK and assets while having a good time it's even better.
Also taking part in a community that is spread all around the world even in far countries I'll probably never visit in person is not socializing? I do socialize far less being at work I'm afraid. Again if you miss socializing in game you're doing it wrong - in my opinion.
THIS. Why a forum in the year 2011 still has no automatic double post merge which can be done even with javascript mostly is beyond my understanding. |
Nishachara
True Enlightenment
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Posted - 2011.07.13 06:18:00 -
[65]
There are no places in RL in my country where you can just go and work ("grind") to earn money as you, and when you, please...
If there are such places in OP's country please tell me where do you live so i can immigrate to your country... Thank you... -------------------------------------------------
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.13 09:01:00 -
[66]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 13/07/2011 09:03:33
Originally by: Alisha Firesale
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 12/07/2011 14:34:38
Originally by: Alisha Firesale It is better and more time efficient to work in reallife and use that money to buy plexes to sell for isk than to grind for hours:
Cost of 1 Plex = 20e (euros) European average minimum wage = 6 euros an hour So if you get paid slightly higer than the minimum wage it takes 3 hours buy 1 plex
Plex ISK price = 375m / 3 = 125m a hour
That's basically correct.
Quote: No other profession in eve pays out 125million isk an hour. Not only that by working you are advancing your work career and socialising instead of sittig infront of a PC all day grinding for 15mill a hour.
Assuming that your post attempts to advise people to stop grinding and work RL instead: This is where your logic breaks down. ISK != Euro. Real life work is paid in real life cash, which you exchange for ISK. This exchange can only work if people generate isk, which is only possible through grind. More people following your advice would raise the Ç:ISK exchange ratio and affect your calculation accordingly. You'd have to put in more RL work per ISK.
So in essence: BE careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
The logic does not break down...
Yes it does.
The ISK worth of PLEX is directly linked to the amount of time people put into grinding. The ISK you receive for your PLEX exists because someone took the time to generate it. Hence, if everybody would follow your advice, you'd be paying more PLEX per isk. Eventually, the exchange ratio would reach the breaking point where You can generate more isk than a PLEX is worth with little time investment.
To be honest, this is already the case for many veteran players. Making 400m isk doesn't take long if you know what you're doing and have the skills to pull it off.
So again, you should be happy there's people willing to put in the work so you can buy your PLEXs. With this thread, essentially, you're ****ing in your own soup.
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.13 09:14:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 13/07/2011 09:15:26 I dont know about you, but without touching buying isk/grinding issue, personally I feel that Im no longer getting my moneys worth from Eve. Thats why Im angry.
This is in direct relation to the "cost" of playing eve.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.07.13 10:36:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Estephania 125 mill ISK per hour can be done in game. I'm talking about 400 mill ISK per hour. You say it can be done with trading? Yes, you are probably right, but don't you need several billions in operating capital to make this much in trading? And how you get those? Grind? Or buy GTC's? If I buy GTC's for that, why not buy GTC's to actually play and bypass the grind in any form altogether? And don't make a mistake/ I'd prefer a game without ANY RMT and without ANY multiboxing. But if the game makes it possible for me to avoid "less fun" aspects of ISK making, why not use it? I have other hobbies than Eve' like stamp collecting and travelling. They cost MUCH more than that $15, so if CCP makes RMT legal, why not use that?
No reason at all you shouldn't use that if you can't make that much ISK/hour easily The only "problem" being that if too many people do it, you start getting less ISK per cash, but then again, that's not such a bad thing at all. I, for one, would welcome an even faster PLEX price drop nowadays _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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SidneyB
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Posted - 2011.07.13 10:48:00 -
[69]
6Ç/h * 10h/d * 24d/mo (that's if you have Saturday and Sunday free) = 1440Ç /mo
Now, in my country, the avg. wage is 300ish Ç/mo, for 12h/d 6d/w. I'd rather "grind" a few hours ingame and make money for a plex than pay my RL money that even so are not nearly enough.
PS: If you only make 15mil/h then you're doing eve wrong.
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Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
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Posted - 2011.07.13 10:56:00 -
[70]
I think it's good that Eve uses peoples' differences to create markets. Differences are the foundation of trade.
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ChaeDoc II
Gallente Sigillum Militum Xpisti Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.07.13 11:13:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Uuali
I buy PLEX to catch up with the high schoolers who have the summer off to play this game.
Kinda my thoughts too. If i'm working hard to earn RL cash chances are it's at the detriment of my EVE "career" so why shouldn't i be allowed to spend some money on ISK since if i wasn't working hard to earn that money i'd be playingEVE to earn that ISK anyway.
We all say RL > EVE though for some it seems that doesn't apply to the art of earning money.
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ChaeDoc II
Gallente Sigillum Militum Xpisti Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.07.13 11:21:00 -
[72]
Also, OP... it's ú2 for a coffee down the road from my place. If i earned ú10/hour it'd have to save me 12 minutes for it to be economical for me to hire them to make the coffee for me. That's before materials. Why do i still buy their coffee? Because i like it better.
Many people prefer to earn their ISK in game through grinding or building up an in-game business. To them it's more gratifying that way. Others don't have the spare time to do that and that's fine too.
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Cunane Jeran
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.13 11:27:00 -
[73]
I'd rather spend the money on a night out, decent meal, cinema or whatever than a PvP ship which is going to just get blobbed anyway.
Each to their own I guess. I'm currently making more than enough through trading alongside whatever else I feel like doing outside of PvP without it being a grind.
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Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.13 11:45:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Alisha Firesale on 13/07/2011 11:45:15
Seems like so many people are mad in this thread. Ive been playing eve for years, i know how to trade in jita, rush through lvl4s and run a pos chain. But these days after doing all those money making activities for so long im bored of doing it. I have MORE THAN ENOUGH money to buy 10/20 GTCs to sell a month and it wont even hurt financially. Yes i understand not everyone can do that but for those that can the isk/hour reward is far greater than 99% of professions ingame.
By doing this i save time. This time i can use to work more, socialise more in RL or doing the fun stuff in eve
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Alisha Firesale
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Posted - 2011.07.13 11:47:00 -
[75]
Originally by: SidneyB 6�Ç/h * 10h/d * 24d/mo (that's if you have Saturday and Sunday free) = 1440Ç /mo
Now, in my country, the avg. wage is 300ish Ç/mo, for 12h/d 6d/w. I'd rather "grind" a few hours ingame and make money for a plex than pay my RL money that even so are not nearly enough.
PS: If you only make 15mil/h then you're doing eve wrong.
obviously not everyone can do it. I earn over 5000e/month, buying GTCs doesnt dent my wallet
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manbeef largeyems
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Posted - 2011.07.13 11:51:00 -
[76]
Only people who are mad are the beta males. The males with ****ty jobs and cant afford to buy GTCs
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Temporal Mechanics
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Posted - 2011.07.13 13:38:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Akita T The only "problem" being that if too many people do it, you start getting less ISK per cash, but then again, that's not such a bad thing at all.
When I started selling GTC's they were getting me 500 Million ISK. Now they get me 700 Million ISK...
Originally by: manbeef largeyems Only people who are mad are the beta males. The males with ****ty jobs and cant afford to buy GTCs
This...
I often see people complain about how we don't need many things we enjoy. They are often the people who can't afford it anyway. Then they will say "Even if I could I wouldn't do it". Great fine. But like another poster I make 5K a month and my wife another 5K a month. With no kids we have plenty of discretionary income to do as we please. Such is life. Do what you want, ignore the rest...
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Dalek Commander
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Posted - 2011.07.13 13:43:00 -
[78]
I enjoy playing eve, and making isk to continue doing it. A couple of plexs/anoms a week keeps 2 accounts running, and enough pvp ships to get a few hundred kills a month. It works out in the end, and I get to keep my real cash for more important stuff.
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Murev Vorchilde
Caldari End Game.
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Posted - 2011.07.13 13:49:00 -
[79]
you could even hire a chinese guy to play the game for you and never have to log in again
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.07.13 13:53:00 -
[80]
I make about a bil in 10 hours...cheaper to run incursions...
People I run with generally make 150mil/hour on average just doing incursions, and that's without selling implants etc you can pick up with the LP. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
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