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Marcus Gideon
Gallente Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2011.07.30 22:45:00 -
[151]
1) The issue isn't "AFK Cloakers", it's your awareness of them. If Local were made into "Recent Speakers" all around, so the only faces you see are people who spoke in the last 15min, you'd have to be paranoid all the time instead of just when you see a strange face.
2) In the spirit of #1, try living in WHs instead of 0.0 where you never know if there's someone lurking. I notice the OP talking about solo ops in 0.0 and yet counters the WH argument by saying "Then have some friends guard the WHs and pull watch". So WH denizens are supposed to travel in groups for safety, but 0.0 dwellers should be allowed to solo through life?
3) The issue isn't "AFK Cloakers", as those are two completely distinct and separate words. "Cloaks" are the counter to Probes, and should be left alone in all regards. The paranoia comes from not knowing whether another player is "AFK". This could be remedied in a number of ways.
- Have a little mark the depicts when someone is AFK. Then you won't try talking to corpies who haven't been around for hours.
- Log players out after lengthy periods of inactivity. There is nothing in the game that requires your presence, but not your involvement. If someone is cloaked, and providing active intel, they are chatting with their fleet/corp/alliance/whatever. That conversation means they are not (A)way (F)rom the (K)eyboard. However, if they are hidden in any regard, whether that's cloaked or just MWD'ing into deep space... and the player is nowhere near their desk... that person is truly AFK.
Of course there are ways macros could prevent someone from "timing out". However, macros are illegal, and would be dealt with on their own.
In summary, Cloaks aren't the problem. As "everything needs a counter", Cloaks are the only true way to counter Probes. Leave them alone.
Go after the real problem. The presence of someone in your system that you don't know.
Either remove the knowledge of their presence (fix Local), make it easier to tell if they're actually a threat (AFK flag), or...
Watch your borders better, and kill people when they invade! - Explosions!
ORE Field Offices
POS vs DUST |
Thomas Turnpoint
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Posted - 2011.07.30 23:19:00 -
[152]
It's that creeping thought that keeps gnawing at you in the middle of the night, isn't it?
The idea that someone, somewhere, might be AFK Cloaked in a Hulk. __________________________ Obi-wan only felt that way about Mos Eisley because he'd never played Eve Online |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2011.07.30 23:26:00 -
[153]
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.07.31 03:38:00 -
[154]
LOL :-D
But seriously, either grow a backbone and deal with the lone AFK cloakie in your system, or press for no more local in 0.0, or local that only shows people who chat. Growing a backbone is obviously beyond most of these whinging carebear botters, so expect more whinging remove local threads soon...
Though without local they'd actually have to defend their borders... uh oh, effort required! That won't work then. -- The Door! |
Ya Huei
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Posted - 2011.08.02 13:33:00 -
[155]
Can't wait for nerfed local.. nullsec bears will get ****d by w-space visitors :P
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Eperor
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Posted - 2011.08.02 13:52:00 -
[156]
ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.
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Kaelie Onren
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Posted - 2011.08.02 14:51:00 -
[157]
*looks for decoder ring at bottom of cracker jack box*
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Thomas Turnpoint
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Posted - 2011.08.02 15:31:00 -
[158]
A "nerf" to local would be interesting. If it was definitely coming up on a set date, stocking up on combat scanner probes and expanded probe launchers might be profitable, as even in high sec people will suddenly want them. D-scan will become a hot topic too. Realistically I don't know that removal of local completely would work for anything but WH space. Due to stargates, and the presence of Concord in high sec, I am guessing that the suggested nerf to local is to add a delay. The lower the sec status, the longer the delay. Plus this would leave WH-space with one of it's unique aspects.
Cloaking is not broken, it is not suddenly turned into an exploit if someone is not staring at their computer screen with their hands on the keys.
ps: should bump this thread when needed so it stays near the top, specifically to try and cut down on the deluge of threads on this very topic.
__________________________ Obi-wan only felt that way about Mos Eisley because he'd never played Eve Online |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:13:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Eperor ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.
Local nerf is coming very soon.
Also, wat?
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:45:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Eperor ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.
Sad thing is, this person almost certainly uses English as a first language. -- The Door! |
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Joachim Vaug
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Posted - 2011.08.02 21:36:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Just minimize your local chat, you'll be fine...
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Dravidshky
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Posted - 2011.08.02 21:42:00 -
[162]
I want some sort of anti cloaking feature not for afk cloakers in 0.0 but for cloaked orcas hiding in WH systems. I had an intruder in my WH system who flew an orca with his alt in which he kept all his other ships, like a tengu and some cov ops frigates. I knew it was online cause I managed to add both his chars to my watchlist, and I knew he was still there cause once in a while an orca would show up on D-scan. Now imo there should be some way of probing down something the size of an orca, cloak or no cloak, maybe not so I could land on it at 0m but at least some way of finding it and killing it.
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.08.03 05:10:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Dravidshky I want some sort of anti cloaking feature not for afk cloakers in 0.0 but for cloaked orcas hiding in WH systems. I had an intruder in my WH system who flew an orca with his alt in which he kept all his other ships, like a tengu and some cov ops frigates. I knew it was online cause I managed to add both his chars to my watchlist, and I knew he was still there cause once in a while an orca would show up on D-scan. Now imo there should be some way of probing down something the size of an orca, cloak or no cloak, maybe not so I could land on it at 0m but at least some way of finding it and killing it.
Train up your scan skills, and get the jump on him next time he de-cloaks. Or whine *shrug* -- The Door! |
razumenko
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Posted - 2011.08.03 12:18:00 -
[164]
I understand both point of view: - afk cloak is in the game so stfu and adapt or die - afk cloak is a cheat
But eve if the game is accept this mechanism there is a problem int the balance between risk and the capacity of the afk cloaker: A simple scenario: You see somebody in your local you take your pvp ship and go for it :) but no way to found it. So you make a pve fleet to warp in case of. At the moment one of the best way to rats it's to use t3 ship so it's around 1B ship. Because of that guy in local you check your overview for ship incoming and probe if is afk or not it doesn't change anything and it's ok. Now if the guy use for exemple a covert ship, with covert cyno. you warp into anomaly the guy warp cloaky in the same anomaly as you. And now he discrupt or scramble you because you have not a missile boat and you need to get close to the target so you can't be align. You are scramble he opens his cyno and 4 bombers pop. you scream to everybody to warp in but you are already dead. (so 1B ship :'() Your fleet arrive kill all the bombers the guy with the covert cyno (4*30M + 30M) and you kill for 150M. So compare to investment it's nothing and it means that you can't farm alone to at least get revenge. Stated to that, for me there is just a problem with the way cloaky ship works. For the afk if guy as to uncloak every 30 minutes, it will be fair, if the guy cannot use the directionnal scan when cloaky, it's fair if he cannot use the anno scanner it's fair too. But at the moment you can scan somebody taking no risk and be safe as long as you are cloaky warp on a guy scramble him kill him and go :'(
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Lance Stratos
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Posted - 2011.08.05 00:14:00 -
[165]
YES does something need to be done about it. but what can we do, some people are fine with it, but for those highsec carebears to those in null sec its like war targets coming into your system and camping you in. MAYBE you can use a less expensive ship (like many of us do when it happens), but when it comes down to it what can we do? change the cloaking mechanic? make an auto kick after x minutes of inactivity? Have the answer before you post a problem.
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David Fightmaster
Gallente The Black Legionnares Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.08.05 00:37:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Quote: What blatant exploit? I see no blatant exploit.
It is tragic that I have to spell this out for you.
An enemy's presence in a system causes numerous problems for locals. In general, people will not do anything outside sit in a pvp fleet when neutrals or reds, even just one, is present in a system. This means no isk generating of any kind, including mining and ratting without significant risk. Complexes are out of the question for fear that the enemy happens to have probing capabilities. Even well tanked ships are potentially at risk because we don't know if the enemy has a cyno.
So their mere presence can halt isk production in a system. Here comes the exploit: they can have this major tactical ability without even being near their computer. Just leaving your character logged in and cloaked while you're at work is exploitation of game mechanics when it can so drastically affect so many people.
Quote: I see no problem here but your inability to adapt.
Explain what counter measures you can employ against this.
FAIL!!!! LMAO. I suffer from afk cloakers all the time. Deal with it or go to high sec. Your choice.
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Wizlawz
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Posted - 2011.08.05 20:33:00 -
[167]
i could see if microtransactions were a big part of making isk, but since it is not.
a possible solution would be and probably should be that after a certain amount of inactivity IE: not probing, not chatting, etc then maybe auto log off would be in order.
however if this was to be implemented then those seeking low sec iskies who can cloak and wait out a system for the "prime time" to farm low sec would be hindered.
i do see your point though, however beings i do come from realms where microtransactions effect ingame economy, not making any isk where you can withdraw into cash is no big deal imho.
the thing i don't understand is while cloaked if ship is moving why it is not picked up as some kind of anomally from the propulsion say if u had scanner / probers looking for said ship.
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Earl Comstock
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.08.06 11:12:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 30/07/2011 23:04:56
Log players out after lengthy periods of inactivity. There is nothing in the game that requires your presence, but not your involvement.
Agree entirely with your sentiment, but this is wrong. Remote fleet boosters function perfectly "present but uninvolved."
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Vex Seraphim
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.08.09 07:40:00 -
[169]
Dear Original Poster, i would like to redirect your attention to a real exploit that has been plaguing eve for a long while. And what's more - i'll do that in your own words.
Seeing names in local chat.
Originally by: Miang Hawaa This blatant exploit has gone on long enough.
I know, i agree it is and it has.
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Players should not be allowed to have a tactical advantage
of scouting a system by simply jumping there. or of seeing an enemy without actively scanning for one.
Originally by: Miang Hawaa This defines exploit.
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Everyone knows it is a problem. It has been for a very long time. Why has nothing been done? What is being done about this frustrating problem?
See what i did there?
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Eperor
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Posted - 2011.08.09 09:25:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Toovhon
Originally by: Eperor ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.
Sad thing is, this person almost certainly uses English as a first language.
English its my 5 language with i know so worst from all off them.
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Mr Stark
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Posted - 2011.08.09 09:31:00 -
[171]
Whilst cloaking in system to disrupt isk making etc is a totally valid tactic, I agree that loggin gin after DT, cloak up and go to work/school/out for teh day, sleeping, then doing the same thing after next DT is to my mind not in the spirit of gameplay.
Disrupting peoples in gmae supply lines, isk making, totally valid, doing it afk 23.5/7 is not.
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Lady Spank
Amarr In Praise Of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.08.09 12:40:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Mr Stark Whilst cloaking in system to disrupt isk making etc is a totally valid tactic, I agree that loggin gin after DT, cloak up and go to work/school/out for teh day, sleeping, then doing the same thing after next DT is to my mind not in the spirit of gameplay.
Disrupting peoples in gmae supply lines, isk making, totally valid, doing it afk 23.5/7 is not.
Move next door or stop being a pansy. ~~~
Screenshot batch compression |
Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.08.10 08:28:00 -
[173]
There is already a solution to AFK cloakers.
Simply minimize Local.
There you go. That nasty AFK cloaker has completely disappeared from your screen.
ISK to Jovan Geldon, Lead Farmers please. ---------------
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Eperor
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Posted - 2011.08.10 09:45:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Jovan Geldon There is already a solution to AFK cloakers.
Simply minimize Local.
There you go. That nasty AFK cloaker has completely disappeared from your screen.
ISK to Jovan Geldon, Lead Farmers please.
And all bils for ships send to you when next to raters opens cov ops cyno after cov ops pilots was 2 weeks afk clouckign in system. to get target no need 2 weeks sit afking in system.
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Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.10 19:19:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Eperor And all bils for ships send to you when next to raters opens cov ops cyno after cov ops pilots was 2 weeks afk clouckign in system. to get target no need 2 weeks sit afking in system.
Solution: don't rat in a system with an AFK cloaker
hth Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO THAT I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
Aramis Rosicrux
Gallente Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
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Posted - 2011.08.10 20:48:00 -
[176]
This tactic is "Carebearing" for PvPers and needs to be balanced. The problem is there is no risk to the cloaked lurker.
I suggest some ANTI - CLOAK modules.
Thoughts???
Aramis Rosicrux
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Torenc
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Posted - 2011.08.11 11:41:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Lykouleon
Originally by: Eperor And all bils for ships send to you when next to raters opens cov ops cyno after cov ops pilots was 2 weeks afk clouckign in system. to get target no need 2 weeks sit afking in system.
Solution: don't rat in a system with an AFK cloaker
hth
thing its such wie was in smaller allince than wie are curently and if allaince have only 3-6 sytems to rat, so imagene wath hapens if there i nal sytems are clouckers wie expirenced that, was no place to rat att all. and that was for 2-3 month so each day there was afk clouckers but if soem one trued to rat his ship after couple hours was blowen up. means they chaking the game but verry rer. so way such play style need to be suported, if you are cloucked look on your screen with your char and dont move from you PC until you not log off or leave system. eve nice miner brings more activity in game and eforce then clouckers, and if soem one wil say they not geting rewarded that thet its wrong they have rewards from loot atleast and intel try bots.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.08.11 19:05:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux This tactic is "Carebearing" for PvPers and needs to be balanced. The problem is there is no risk to the cloaked lurker.
I suggest some ANTI - CLOAK modules.
Thoughts???
Aramis Rosicrux
Wrong. AFK cloaking is a somewhat viable solution to local. But local is being nerfed soon, so I'll enjoy your whines when it is.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Torenc
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Posted - 2011.08.12 14:00:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Torenc on 12/08/2011 14:00:33
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux This tactic is "Carebearing" for PvPers and needs to be balanced. The problem is there is no risk to the cloaked lurker.
I suggest some ANTI - CLOAK modules.
Thoughts???
Aramis Rosicrux
Wrong. AFK cloaking is a somewhat viable solution to local. But local is being nerfed soon, so I'll enjoy your whines when it is.
IF local wil be nerfed wilbe only one ting no ratter in 0.0 noo0ne wil risk his ship for sanctum. or wath ever good anomaly. All will grind isk in high sec with alts so that will be the way wath you wish to make.
Allrweady with last nerfs off 0.0 about 40 % off 0.0 po9pulation left 0.0 fariming in 0.0 alone and warms in high sec misions.
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Cynoska McNamara
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Posted - 2011.08.12 15:23:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Torenc IF local wil be nerfed wilbe only one ting no ratter in 0.0 noo0ne wil risk his ship for sanctum. or wath ever good anomaly. All will grind isk in high sec with alts so that will be the way wath you wish to make.
Allrweady with last nerfs off 0.0 about 40 % off 0.0 po9pulation left 0.0 fariming in 0.0 alone and warms in high sec misions.
I agree. With local removing, 0.0 will be just a pirate zone. No reign will grow. 0.0 is done for military forces and citizens. Don't think just like a pirate. The pirates usually have the presumption to be the only ones to play the right way. But remember pirates play to DESTROY. Others play to BUILD. You can't DESTROY if someone can't BUILD.
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