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White Tree
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Posted - 2011.08.10 13:42:00 -
[271]
Its a combination of several factors, in my opinion:
1. Projectiles and Lasers were looked at in recent history. They were both altered and improved in different ways, Hybrids were ignored.
2. The gameplay style that once allowed Hybrids to be useful (i.e. pre-Nano nerf) is gone. The game has change significantly making Hybrid weapon style gameplay mostly redundant on a level above Frigate gameplay.
3. Gallente hulls are PLAGUED with fitting issues. There's either never enough grid or CPU to fit the ships the way they should be fit. Races like Minmatar do not have any problems fitting all of their best guns as well as prop and a sufficient tank. Gallente absolutely cannot fit their Tank, their Prop and their highest tier of weaponry.
I am hopeful that CCP Tallest will get around to looking at Gallente eventually. I don't mind the idea that some ships are bad and that there's flavor of the month here and there but having an entire faction be useless save for one or two subcaps (Lachesis & Taranis) is absolutely absurd.
Its about time that Hybrids (and Gallente!) got some love. _______________________________________
Follow me on Twitter! |
LittleTerror
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Posted - 2011.08.10 14:13:00 -
[272]
Railguns are a joke, god they are so awful, don't even know why I trained them, they tickle... Blaster boats are too slow and before you even get into effective range you're half dead anyway.
They either need to give more speed, damage, range, or armor to blaster boats and railguns just need a nice boost, ships like the harpy are made for them but rails plain suck imo or experience in using them. Rails imo should do more damage than lasers at longer ranges but lasers are fine as they are and DON'T need a nerf, I'd actually like to see the rokh used more for sniping in fleet engagements. The rokh has the range and its perfect it just lacks the damage and so it would be my last choice over better ships with same range but more damage.
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LittleTerror
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Posted - 2011.08.10 14:16:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Adonlude I agree. Fix hybrids. I want so desperately to use my Rokh and buy an Eagle and stuff.
/Signed
+1 Yup I too would love to actually be able to use those ships i trained for, if people are not flying those ships it is obvious they are broken. |
Digital Messiah
Gallente Oregami Ultd
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Posted - 2011.08.10 23:05:00 -
[274]
Originally by: White Tree Its a combination of several factors, in my opinion:
1. Projectiles and Lasers were looked at in recent history. They were both altered and improved in different ways, Hybrids were ignored.
2. The gameplay style that once allowed Hybrids to be useful (i.e. pre-Nano nerf) is gone. The game has change significantly making Hybrid weapon style gameplay mostly redundant on a level above Frigate gameplay.
3. Gallente hulls are PLAGUED with fitting issues. There's either never enough grid or CPU to fit the ships the way they should be fit. Races like Minmatar do not have any problems fitting all of their best guns as well as prop and a sufficient tank. Gallente absolutely cannot fit their Tank, their Prop and their highest tier of weaponry.
I am hopeful that CCP Tallest will get around to looking at Gallente eventually. I don't mind the idea that some ships are bad and that there's flavor of the month here and there but having an entire faction be useless save for one or two subcaps (Lachesis & Taranis) is absolutely absurd.
Its about time that Hybrids (and Gallente!) got some love.
Next time you are in Iceland. You should put a fire under their chairs and get them working to fix this.
Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
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Rykuss
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.11 00:57:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Digital Messiah
Originally by: White Tree Its a combination of several factors, in my opinion:
1. Projectiles and Lasers were looked at in recent history. They were both altered and improved in different ways, Hybrids were ignored.
2. The gameplay style that once allowed Hybrids to be useful (i.e. pre-Nano nerf) is gone. The game has change significantly making Hybrid weapon style gameplay mostly redundant on a level above Frigate gameplay.
3. Gallente hulls are PLAGUED with fitting issues. There's either never enough grid or CPU to fit the ships the way they should be fit. Races like Minmatar do not have any problems fitting all of their best guns as well as prop and a sufficient tank. Gallente absolutely cannot fit their Tank, their Prop and their highest tier of weaponry.
I am hopeful that CCP Tallest will get around to looking at Gallente eventually. I don't mind the idea that some ships are bad and that there's flavor of the month here and there but having an entire faction be useless save for one or two subcaps (Lachesis & Taranis) is absolutely absurd.
Its about time that Hybrids (and Gallente!) got some love.
Next time you are in Iceland. You should put a fire under their chairs and get them working to fix this.
Maybe we should protest. Can I have your Vindicator? :D |
VaL Iscariot
Caldari The Concilium Enterprises Spectrum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.11 03:45:00 -
[276]
Edited by: VaL Iscariot on 11/08/2011 03:48:38 Edited by: VaL Iscariot on 11/08/2011 03:48:13
Originally by: Jones Bones Blasters are fine. Fix bad pilots.
The only thing you could possible argue for is even better tracking.
this. stop sucking at using blasters and blasters won't suck.
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Digital Messiah
Gallente Oregami Ultd
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Posted - 2011.08.11 05:36:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Rykuss Maybe we should protest. Twisted Evil Can I have your Vindicator? :D
If I had one and it did something.
Originally by: VaL Iscariot Edited by: VaL Iscariot on 11/08/2011 03:48:38 Edited by: VaL Iscariot on 11/08/2011 03:48:13
Originally by: Jones Bones Blasters are fine. Fix bad pilots.
The only thing you could possible argue for is even better tracking.
this. stop sucking at using blasters and blasters won't suck.
You must be new here. Not every player is pro. And when it comes down to it. No one should expect every player to be above and beyond "average" piloting skill. Even if there are people who make hybrids work with select ships, in even more select situations. It doesn't mean they globally function properly. CCP, the CSM, and a huge majority of the player base, all see this issue. So please stop trolling, we aren't even crossing yo bridge.
Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.08.12 03:20:00 -
[278]
Originally by: VaL Iscariot Edited by: VaL Iscariot on 11/08/2011 03:48:38 Edited by: VaL Iscariot on 11/08/2011 03:48:13
Originally by: Jones Bones Blasters are fine. Fix bad pilots.
The only thing you could possible argue for is even better tracking.
this. stop sucking at using blasters and blasters won't suck.
Please teach me how to be pro enough to be able to surpass mathematics. ---
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Pertuabo Enkidgan
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Posted - 2011.08.12 10:04:00 -
[279]
Edited by: Pertuabo Enkidgan on 12/08/2011 10:05:36 Recently switched to lasers/Amarr ship, and haven't regret it since.
It leaves a bad business mark for new people when you have ship and gun inbalancements. You know....for the last years.
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Digital Messiah
Gallente Oregami Ultd
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Posted - 2011.08.14 21:50:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: VaL Iscariot Edited by: VaL Iscariot on 11/08/2011 03:48:38 Edited by: VaL Iscariot on 11/08/2011 03:48:13
Originally by: Jones Bones Blasters are fine. Fix bad pilots.
The only thing you could possible argue for is even better tracking.
this. stop sucking at using blasters and blasters won't suck.
Please teach me how to be pro enough to be able to surpass mathematics.
I would love a response to this. As I would like to learn the secrets to improve my max velocity, range, and damage, with "skill".
Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
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Hot Tubes
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.15 02:08:00 -
[281]
I'm going to make some very unpopular suggestions with anyone who flies Minnie, but this is what I feel needs to be addressed before there can be a decent level of balance. Note this doesn't particularly deal with rails or long range weapons in general, as I'm not as familiar with them. So, with that said, turret rebalance:
First: Bring other turrets down a bit to be not stupid OP.
# Scorch ammo needs range cut by 33-50%. Abaddons with no optimal range bonuses shouldn't be able to have 45km optimal with scorch and 10km falloff.
# All crystals should take 10 seconds to switch/reload. **** roleplay reasons, this is game balance reasoning.
# The bonus to falloff given by tracking enhancers should be substantially reduced from the current (T2 is 30% bonus. I don't know a decent value but let's just say cut by 50%). The current level of falloff reached with autocannons is ****ing ridiculous.
# Base tracking on autocannons should AT MOST be 50% of the equivalent blaster. They usually fight at long ranges, meaning that while they move faster their relative speed to the target is lower and so tracking isn't as necessary. Plus all those tracking enhancers which are practically mandatory on minnie ships will boost tracking a little anyway. Blasters should be the best tracking of all turrets. Too many minnie pilot can keep range and pick off frigs with awesome tracking and then race up beside a target and brawl the **** out of it due to having good enough tracking to get right up beside them.
# INCREASE fitting requirements of projectiles to more closely match those of hybrids and lasers. An option people often ask for is to make it easier to fit the top tier of hybrids but, using blasters as an example, this completely makes elctrons and ions useless if neutrons can always be fit AND have prop mod AND have massive tank. There is good reason for the current trade off, and projectile weapons currently don't require this trade.
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Hybrid/gallente buff
# Increase base top speed of gallente ships to be the highest of all. They should, with prop module, be able to scream in a straight line towards something and catch it. Keep agility as it is now. With good piloting they can still be avoided by minnie ships. Like in a bull fight, you don't run in a straight line away from the ****ing bull, you run perpendicular to it as it can't turn as fast.
# Reduce the speed reduction incurred by using trimarks and armour plates.
# Reduce the capacitor requirement of firing hybrids. Reduce reload time to 5 seconds (to facilitate using Null on approach then when/if you snag someone a change to a close range ammo doesn't **** you over).
# For small blasters, increase base optimal range. It's slightly nuts to have an optimal of 500m roughly when you're piloting an interceptor which will refuse to orbit any closer than 1000m+ unless you practically stop the damn ship.
# Tracking boost to all blasters. Ballpark figure of 20%
# 5-10% dps boost, probably erring towards 5% due to the freak of nature known as the Vindicator.
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Digital Messiah
Gallente Oregami Ultd
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Posted - 2011.08.25 06:58:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Hot Tubes I'm going to make some very unpopular suggestions with anyone who flies Minnie, but this is what I feel needs to be addressed before there can be a decent level of balance. Note this doesn't particularly deal with rails or long range weapons in general, as I'm not as familiar with them. So, with that said, turret rebalance:
First: Bring other turrets down a bit to be not stupid OP.
# Scorch ammo needs range cut by 33-50%. Abaddons with no optimal range bonuses shouldn't be able to have 45km optimal with scorch and 10km falloff.
# All crystals should take 10 seconds to switch/reload. **** roleplay reasons, this is game balance reasoning.
# The bonus to falloff given by tracking enhancers should be substantially reduced from the current (T2 is 30% bonus. I don't know a decent value but let's just say cut by 50%). The current level of falloff reached with autocannons is ****ing ridiculous.
# Base tracking on autocannons should AT MOST be 50% of the equivalent blaster. They usually fight at long ranges, meaning that while they move faster their relative speed to the target is lower and so tracking isn't as necessary. Plus all those tracking enhancers which are practically mandatory on minnie ships will boost tracking a little anyway. Blasters should be the best tracking of all turrets. Too many minnie pilot can keep range and pick off frigs with awesome tracking and then race up beside a target and brawl the **** out of it due to having good enough tracking to get right up beside them.
# INCREASE fitting requirements of projectiles to more closely match those of hybrids and lasers. An option people often ask for is to make it easier to fit the top tier of hybrids but, using blasters as an example, this completely makes elctrons and ions useless if neutrons can always be fit AND have prop mod AND have massive tank. There is good reason for the current trade off, and projectile weapons currently don't require this trade.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hybrid/gallente buff
# Increase base top speed of gallente ships to be the highest of all. They should, with prop module, be able to scream in a straight line towards something and catch it. Keep agility as it is now. With good piloting they can still be avoided by minnie ships. Like in a bull fight, you don't run in a straight line away from the ****ing bull, you run perpendicular to it as it can't turn as fast.
# Reduce the speed reduction incurred by using trimarks and armour plates.
# Reduce the capacitor requirement of firing hybrids. Reduce reload time to 5 seconds (to facilitate using Null on approach then when/if you snag someone a change to a close range ammo doesn't **** you over).
# For small blasters, increase base optimal range. It's slightly nuts to have an optimal of 500m roughly when you're piloting an interceptor which will refuse to orbit any closer than 1000m+ unless you practically stop the damn ship.
# Tracking boost to all blasters. Ballpark figure of 20%
# 5-10% dps boost, probably erring towards 5% due to the freak of nature known as the Vindicator.
Some very good points. I was hoping by now CCP would step in to comment or provide a feedback / discussion thread to facilitate weapon balance issues.
Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
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WeirdNoise
Caldari tagueuletoi
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Posted - 2011.08.25 11:31:00 -
[283]
When I joined Eve in 2004 and later on up to 2006 or so, projectiles were the "OMG SO BORKED CCP HAS TO FIX THEM" weapon flavor of the years. I didn't mind too much : although this was indeed ominous, I still found projectiles fun and decided to train them up.
Are hybrids in need of a boost ? Maybe. Will I cry if projectiles get nerfed? Surely. BUT... such threads and community initiatives are misleading.
Blasters used to be touted as the most damaging weapons in the game and there was no mention of the slowness of armor tanked gallente ships _negating_ their advantage, it was seen as a necessary drawback. So what has really changed over the years? Enlighten me.
I trained projectiles despite the cries of "it's so borked" because I found them FUN and I LIKED them. I also trained hybrids but I want to keep my projo goodness. So don't whine too hard because you know what happens when you do : some big bad daddy comes along and "fixes" things in a way that makes everyone discontent.
Back then... people were training Caldari pilots because it was the easy-win race. They were dropping their millions of projectiles and even lasers skill points because their 'Pests or Apocs couldn't compete with Ravens in missions... nor in pvp. Are you seeing tons of Gallente players emigrating en masse to the Minmatar side just to get by ? Not yet.
Are you seeing Gallente boats fitting projectiles ? Nope, not yet. But we used to see plenty of Minmatar combat ships pilots fitting rails and lasers. Things were that bad.
So my point is : play what you like. If it doesn't work as well as other choices, so ****ing what ? If you think gaming a RPG is about picking the "best" race, the "best" equipment and the "best" tactics, I regret having to share my playfield with you.
I always felt admiration for the Tempest pilots who didn't whine about the "borked" state of projos but instead explained how their Pests were awesome and fun when played smartly, while most everyone around them was whining about the same cards they had been dealt.
Note: I'm Caldari but it was a choice purely based on looks : my first char was a Sebiestor Minmatar and he was so ugly I dropped him in a week. Being a noob in caldari space I let my place of birth influence my gameplay and training choices. Hence me half-blood psychology and my ambivalence towards minmatar and caldari starting card decks.
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Junky Juke
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.25 12:20:00 -
[284]
Really usefull thread here!!! CCP should take a look at this.
My personal experience with Gallente/hybrid:
I ran lvl4 missions in my Megathron Navy Issue until few months ago. I was happy with it. ... One day I started to run some missions with a corp mate with a Maelstrom. He could tank everything with only 1 ship fitting while doing a lot of damage, I had to swap my hardners and orher low slot modules to adapt the ship to every single mission and for the hardest missions (Worlds Collide, The Assault etc) I had to lower my DPS in favor of better tanking and cap stability.
There was something wrong. I could not believe that a Faction and Expensive BS cannot perform as a T1 regular BS. After hours to play around with EFT I decided to cross-train Minmatar and jumped on a Maelstrom... From that day I left my Mega parked in my hangar!
Gallente hulls and weapons need AS SOON AS POSSIBLE to be balanced with the other races!
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Terrorform
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.25 16:04:00 -
[285]
Lies!
Blasters are awesome
"My ambition is handicapped by laziness"
- Charles Bukowski |
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