ECM drones does indeed seem very powerful and everybody is packing them nowadays.
Could u link to the actual thread or repost it?

Heya widdershins finally got this up i was waiting for this, and i congratulate you or your analysis its in depth, and unlike everyone else, you think!

As opposed to just whining about it.

I stand by my decision to measure the ECM from modules based on unbonused racial ECCM modules. I find this to be a good compromise, since jams from Caldari recons are obviously intended to be far more powerful, and the fact that ECM drones require no skills to improve, and are multispectral and so will jam all races of ship equally. This is also approximately the strength you would attain from a Blackbird with multispectrals and good skills. (This number can also be changed on the spreadsheet.)

This completely skews any comparison that includes the modules. All the modules are generally (with few exceptions) used only on the ships that get bonuses for them, so basing the comparsion on non-bonused modules rather then bonused modules makes it very misleading.

Regardless, yes, ECM drones are way better then any of the other EW drones, but the answer is not to nerf ECM drones, it's to boost the other EW drones, or alternatively nerf damage drones aswell, putting the final nail in the coffin for Gallente. Normall,y I'd be opposed to the concept of boosting everything else rather then nerfing the one item that is stronger then its counterparts, but in this case, its neccecery.
Currently, ECM drones are the only drones that are strong enough that people actually consider replacing damage drones with them, while the other EW drones are just ignored completely, so nerfing ECM drones would just mean that nothing but damage drones are used. On the other hand, boosting the other types sufficently would mean that we have lots of different options that are all viable.

OP, check your math.

5 Hornet EC-300 (jam strength 1) vs. Typhoon (sensor strength 18)

Chance for at least one successful jam = 1 - (1 - jam_strength / sensor_strength) ^ number_of_jammers
= 1 - (1 - 1 / 18) ^ 5 = 24.858 percent

The Definitive guide to Electronic Warfare

Also note that skills do not increase drones jam strength.

Even EC-300 drones, the light ECM version that will fit in almost any ship with even a minimal drone complement, will have a 76 percent chance to jam a Typhoon battleship at least once in the first 90 seconds of a fight.

I tend to agree with the other poster that the other EWAR drones are too underpowered. I feel the other drones are underpowered you feel ECM drones are overpowered. We just have a different view of the same problem - namely the disparity between EWAR drone types.

Would be nice if it was uploaded somewhere that didn't require login.
But I guess you prove your point

About five months ago, I sent a mail to CCP support with a long document and spreadsheet detailing the current, imbalanced state of light and medium ECM drones. I never received any response.

I partially agree with the math.

However you should not ever compare only minmatar ship stats with ECM because minmatar are generally weakest against ECM by game design. If you get jammed in minmatar ship you can go in dark corner and cry in secret.

But still, if looking only light ECM drones they could get 20% drop in ECM strenght and they'd still be useful.

edit: I think one of problems is that also drones have long jam cycle, which means target might just die during that ONE lucky cycle from drones while having no chance to even shoot them down.

LOL at assuming anyone at CCP is able to understand that let alone act on it... When the last YEARS proved over and over that they had trouble with basic maths.

You have my deepest support, but I'm definitely not holding my breath.

As much as I dislike Widdershins, his analysis is spot on.

ECM isnt subject to the same stacking penalties of all other mid slot ewar. This has to do with ecm being all-or-nothing, and its generally poor design.

Im of the opinion that the entire ECM mechanic regardless of its actual in-game power is a bad mechanic.

...Consider this though: How would those stacking penalties be applied?...

In short: ECM as envisioned is what needs to be fixed. They can make them absolute God-modules (more than they are) as long as there are clear and non-gimping counters for all ship classes and people are not required to watch an Eve cinematic for the duration.

Everyone on grid should have their screen cut to a slow motion cinematic (a-la Street Fighter IV ultra-combos) where it zooms in, the background goes dark and streaky, and you poke them right in the eyeball with fire/lightning and flashy effects.

In seriousness, how about this, instead of breaking all your target locks:

• All targeted weapons (missiles and guns) increase in cycle time by 300-400% (but only during the jam cycle; 1400 artillery should not take 3 minutes to fire again if you are jammed at the wrong time).
• Other offensive modules (energy neutralizers, energy vampires, target painters, tracking disruptors, sensor dampeners, stasis webifiers) are reduced in effectiveness by 75-80%.
• Warp scramblers no longer turn off MWDs.
• Warp disruptors and warp scramblers are reduced to 1/2 or 1/3 of their original point value (so they still keep you from warping out, but 1 stab will counter more than one of them).
• Drones cannot be directly commanded to attack or repair.
• ECM stops working entirely. ECM bursts still work.
• Assistive modules (remote repairs, energy transfers, tracking links, remote ECCM, remote sensor boosters) stop working entirely.
• You can no longer see the health bars on your targets.
• Scan resolution is reduced by 80-90% (acquiring new targets while you are jammed should be slow)

ECM bursts remain the same.

This should make sense, as well as achieve most of the usually-desired effects of ECM, without completely taking the target out of the fight

Does this sound good? Does it sound underpowered? Does it sound pointless?

I think something like this would work (with actual numbers subject to testing), but I think its overly complicated. I do like the idea of fractional warp disruption strength. I think that would be a neat mechanic all on its own.


An idea I had is lowering the jam time, while keeping ECM module cycle time the same. If that were the case, then you would need multiple jams to keep someone permajammed, and stacking penalties could apply. Its still a ****** mechanic, but at least its subject to the same rules as other ewar.

Changing ECM to work the same way like you propose? Personally, I don't like it. It would be massively overpowered.

In a tense fight, where every click and action seems to matter 200% times more than anything else, getting jammed out makes you want to slam your mouse through a wall in frustration.

Yeah. Well frankly there are two ways of looking at ECM.

1) To what extent does it affect the outcome? (the power)
2) To what extent does it affect the experience? (the frustration)

Arguments over ECM tend to go back and forth, because some people are arguing the first case, and others are experiencing the latter. It sucks to get jammed. It does, however, provide a positive experience to be on the other side of it.

What you end up with is some people trying to rationalise it based on 1) and other people trying to convey their dis-taste of 2). This, will invariably devolve into "LOLUMAD" or "LOLUBUTTHURT" to the detriment of the arguments for 2).

In a tense fight, where every click and action seems to matter 200% times more than anything else, getting jammed out makes you want to slam your mouse through a wall in frustration.

Whether or not you'd have been better off with ~300 more DPS from a set of Ogre II's or a decent jam chance from the 900's is going to be situation dependent. Whether you'd have been better off with 5 Warrior II's to force the stealth bomber off the field is going to be situation dependent. From a pure balance perspective, there is never a "right" one to use. There always being a "right" one to use is a sure sign it is unbalanced.

But the other EWAR drones should really have their stacking penalty scaled back. Poor little mites :(

stuff

if you cant figure out what's meaning of jam cycle time you should stop posting for a day or two and figure it out

maybbe maybbe?