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Uglavitch Nefrex Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.07.03 11:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Tanya Fox Edited by: Tanya Fox on 03/07/2011 11:08:23 Originally by: Uglavitch Nefrex WoW is dead? since when. I am playing it now. Perhaps you should compare EvE to Starwars Galaxies, you know the game that failed not the one with 12million subs Is it really that healthy now? From what I saw of it before I left, it seemed only high level raiding was about the healthest part. Questing in Catacylsm was a bad idea as it become boring quick if you level multi characters. The quests became far too linear because they tried to make them more story like. Best thing about wow now when you are like me and have 5 level 85's and a few lower levels is you don't actually have to quest to level them up, I will give you that Cata questing is awful. but at least they haven't abandoned their player base.
nartela	Posted - 2011.07.03 11:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Sader Rykane Yes... 10 million subscribers... clearly that mmo is failing hard. You don't have to LIKE wow to realize that it has made FANTASTIC business decisions. In all honest when your second most competitor literlaly has 10-15x LESS subscribers than you. You have not only done something RIGHT, you've done it REALLY REALLY REALLY right. that made me laugh wow isnt failing it still has a few years left, its a solid mmorpg comparing it to eve is a silly thing to do there entirley diffrent. ccp could learn alot from blizzard COUGH expansions COUGH.
Tanya Fox	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:02:00 - [33] Originally by: nartela ccp could learn alot from blizzard COUGH expansions COUGH. They could also learn a few lessons on how not to do it.
Scarlet des Loupes Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:11:00 - [34] Edited by: Scarlet des Loupes on 03/07/2011 12:10:54 Originally by: Noran Ferah WOW is a theme park where death is meaningless. EVE is a ghetto, in which I get your stuff. The only meaningful death is permadeath. The rest is just fake.
nartela	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:12:00 - [35] Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Edited by: Scarlet des Loupes on 03/07/2011 12:10:54 Originally by: Noran Ferah WOW is a theme park where death is meaningless. EVE is a ghetto, in which I get your stuff. The only meaningful death is permadeath. The rest is just fake. a game with permadeath would be hilarious dont think any1 would play it though except a few
Tanya Fox	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:16:00 - [36] Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Edited by: Scarlet des Loupes on 03/07/2011 12:10:54 Originally by: Noran Ferah WOW is a theme park where death is meaningless. EVE is a ghetto, in which I get your stuff. The only meaningful death is permadeath. The rest is just fake. Permadeath meaningful? The only thing meaningful about permadeath is you have to start a new character each time, oh the tediousness of it all.
Scarlet des Loupes Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Tanya Fox Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Originally by: Noran Ferah WOW is a theme park where death is meaningless. EVE is a ghetto, in which I get your stuff. The only meaningful death is permadeath. The rest is just fake. Permadeath meaningful? The only thing meaningful about permadeath is you have to start a new character each time, oh the tediousness of it all. That's exactly the meaning of death.
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:20:00 - [38] Originally by: Tanya Fox Permadeath meaningful? The only thing meaningful about permadeath is you have to start a new character each time, oh the tediousness of it all. I guess the bittervets wouldn't even dare to undock anymore!!!
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:23:00 - [39] I'm sorry, but WoW was far easier at launch than any other popular MMO on the market. Your point about it having been nerfed even further to cater to the ultra-casuals, and an attempt to draw a parallel with Eve is valid. But to try and suggest it was hard at launch is a gross miss-statement. -- Frog blast the vent core!
Tanya Fox	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Originally by: Tanya Fox Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes Originally by: Noran Ferah WOW is a theme park where death is meaningless. EVE is a ghetto, in which I get your stuff. The only meaningful death is permadeath. The rest is just fake. Permadeath meaningful? The only thing meaningful about permadeath is you have to start a new character each time, oh the tediousness of it all. That's exactly the meaning of death. In the real world yeah, but in the real world you are not born again (unless you believe in reincarnation).But even then real life does not reflect games mainly due to the time frames are different. You could die 10 times in one (Earth day) in a game, how tedious would that be to have to make 9 new characters, even if there were safe zones it would still be tedious. Could be funny to watch in WoW though, you would have one guild once they got a foot hold making sure no other player could get to a level where they could be challenged. Might be fun to watch for awhile, certainly not fun to play.

Valari Nala Zena Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:31:00 - [41] Originally by: Khiijan Araal When WoW first came out, it had a reputation of no hand holding, where players were expected to figure out most of the good bits by themselves. Instances were tough, and required a cooperative group in order to be completed. The kind of people who played ate that stuff up and asked for more, loving every bit of the challenge. It's incredibly addictive to have a challenge thrown at you and then have to work in order to overcome it. Unfortunately, Blizzard wanted their game to grow. They wanted more people hooked. WoW had a fast growing reputation, which enticed many people to give it a go. Many of those new people came from far out of their usual genre to have a look, some of them barely even gamers to begin with. They had their look and then complained because it wasn't for them. Blizzard wanted more subs. They wanted these novice players to be hooked as well. With ever subsequent expansion, the game was dumbed down more and more in the name of accessibility. Do you know what happened? They lost their core players. The hard core MMO guys all left WoW. They scoff at it. They're all playing other games now. WoW now has a reputation as being a playground for little kids. Without the core players, there was nobody left to sing WoW's praises and the game is now crawling into its grave. I can only hope that this same fate does not befall EVE. Do not dumb down EVE. Easy games do not garner the core group of dedicated players that keep a game going. A game's reputation hinges upon those dedicated players. You are either the troll of the day or the idiot of the day.
Tanya Fox	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Toovhon I'm sorry, but WoW was far easier at launch than any other popular MMO on the market. Your point about it having been nerfed even further to cater to the ultra-casuals, and an attempt to draw a parallel with Eve is valid. But to try and suggest it was hard at launch is a gross miss-statement. Depends how you view hard it's relative to what you're doing. If a level 25 is killing level 20 mobs then it's not hard. If a level 25 is killing level 30 mobs then it will be very hard unless it's a twink. If a twink geared group raids a dungeon then that would be a lot easier than the same group wearing average gear. Before Cataclysm WoW was far easier than vanilla excluding the heroic dungeons but then vanilla did not have heroic dungeons. Catacylsm was supposed to address that issue in part if it did I don't know as I stopped playing after they started altering things getting ready for Cataclysm and just prior to release.
Julius Mayaki	Posted - 2011.07.03 12:59:00 - [43] Wrong forum.
Bek Thyron	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:00:00 - [44] Eh. WoW is not hard, and it never was. I played since Vanilla. I raided Molten Core as it was "TEH RAID". I raided BC and most of LK. /rage mode on The hardest thing in wow is and will forever be: FIND A GROUP WHICH IS NOT FULL OF MOUTHBREAKING SALIVATING IMBECILE **TALKING CHILDISH MORONS. Then, get this group to make following: 1. Tank, move to the boss. Tank said boss. Watch out for specials. Offtank, pick up adds. Watch the out for specials. 2. Healers. Heal the tank. Heal the offtank. Heal raid. GTFO of the fire on ground. 3. DPS. GTFO of the fire on the ground. I said, GET THE FUNK OUT OF THE FIRE. Well, now you're dead. Whatever, rest of you, dps adds first. Then dps boss. Oh, and dont forget to get out of the fire. 4. ???? 5. Collect loot. Prepare to replace your shinies in a couple of months, as it will be obsolete then. This explains it best. /rage mode off What killed for for ME, was the so-called community. The entitlement sense (sp?) is so absurdly high in there, i cannot explain it to the fullest. For example: Everybody cries how HE/SHE is supposed to "SEE" all the content because he/she paid his monthly sub. Which is ok, btw. But, they do not want to do something for it. No. All they want is: Login, get epics (mounts, whatever - rewards). Which, for a MMO, does not make sense. There WILL always be people who are willing to spend more time in the game, who are willing to do their best possible. All sense of reward (which is imo THE factor for a MMO) is ruined if some keyboard-turner with the reflexes of a sloth gets the same loot as you. Why? Dont ask me, ask Blizzard. They "see what the players do and not what they say," It seems like the generation of Wii-nunchuk-swinging non-gamers has won. I salute them, and play Eve as long as it will go on. Thank you all, i got enough corpses for now :-)**)
Kez Aumer	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:14:00 - [45] Originally by: Tanya Fox He's not lying, seems you have a short memory. Quests are a good example, in those early days there was no quest tracker ingame, you had to find out yourself where the quests were and in some quest cases what to do. My memory's just fine. Some of us never found it much of a challenge to read the quest text, which in most cases told you exactly where to go, and in many cases what to do. If you didn't know what to do, wanton slaughter usually made the picture clear. It was not difficult. --- Originally by: Dalketh By the way "clearer" isn't a word so I would avoid calling other people stupid.
Bklyn 1	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:15:00 - [46] Funny, just yesterday I was in Gamestop buying my 7 year old son an Xbox game. He was looking at a game, but said he tried the demo and it was too hard. I told him that that's what makes it fun, having a challenge. Some random customer overheard us, and he just started ranting how games are too easy now, how he finishes a game in a day or 2, etc. I don't know why game designers don't understand that people enjoy a challenge. It's fun.
xxxTRUSTxxx	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:16:00 - [47] who gives a ** about World of **ers.
Tanya Fox	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Bek Thyron The hardest thing in wow is and will forever be: FIND A GROUP WHICH IS NOT FULL OF MOUTHBREAKING SALIVATING IMBECILE ****TALKING CHILDISH MORONS. When I played even in PuGs i did not find much of that, occassionally we would have someone drop out of team because they had completed what they had on their agenda. But as time went by and expansions rolled out, I found it a lot more like how you just described. It's probably why there's quite a few of us that refer to vanilla as the good old days of WoW. But they've also made things easier overtime, doing away will elite world mobs and replacing them with standard ones, adding quest trackers, They made it faster to level on the vanilla part of the game (Cata replaced a lot of the vanilla part of the game) , added more flight paths so less travelling. Added more graveyards, less travelling yet again.
pvt awesome	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Khiijan Araal When WoW first came out, it had a reputation of no hand holding. Proof or GtFO.
Tanya Fox	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:19:00 - [50] Originally by: Kez Aumer Originally by: Tanya Fox He's not lying, seems you have a short memory. Quests are a good example, in those early days there was no quest tracker ingame, you had to find out yourself where the quests were and in some quest cases what to do. My memory's just fine. Some of us never found it much of a challenge to read the quest text, which in most cases told you exactly where to go, and in many cases what to do. If you didn't know what to do, wanton slaughter usually made the picture clear. It was not difficult. I did not say it was difficult, but it was harder than using a quest tracker where you just have to look at the map to see where to go and don't even need to read the quest.

Kez Aumer	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:21:00 - [51] Originally by: Tanya Fox When I played even in PuGs i did not find much of that, occassionally we would have someone drop out of team because they had completed what they had on their agenda. But as time went by and expansions rolled out, I found it a lot more like how you just described. This I'll happily concede. There's no question the population mentality has changed dramatically over the years. Every since BC or so, I've always felt like I like the game; It's the people I can't stand. --- Originally by: Dalketh By the way "clearer" isn't a word so I would avoid calling other people stupid.
Alaura Aquila Minmatar Caldari Elite Force Apocalypse Now.	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:22:00 - [52] Originally by: pvt awesome Originally by: Khiijan Araal When WoW first came out, it had a reputation of no hand holding. Proof or GtFO. I remember when BC first came out, you had to actually look for quest items, I noticed after one patch they put sparklies around all the quest items. They did lots of similar things to where now, you don't even need to read the quest log. --
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services Terran United Federation	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:27:00 - [53] So umm WoW dead ? Yet they still have millions of players? ------------------------------------
pvt awesome	Posted - 2011.07.03 13:29:00 - [54] Edited by: pvt awesome on 03/07/2011 13:29:45 Originally by: Alaura Aquila Originally by: pvt awesome Originally by: Khiijan Araal When WoW first came out, it had a reputation of no hand holding. Proof or GtFO. I remember when BC first came out, you had to actually look for quest items, I noticed after one patch they put sparklies around all the quest items. They did lots of similar things to where now, you don't even need to read the quest log. Okay, "Sparklies" around the quest items. Any other specific examples?
Tagera	Posted - 2011.07.03 14:04:00 - [55] Originally by: Bek Thyron Eh. WoW is not hard, and it never was. I played since Vanilla. I raided Molten Core as it was "TEH RAID". I raided BC and most of LK. /rage mode on The hardest thing in wow is and will forever be: FIND A GROUP WHICH IS NOT FULL OF MOUTHBREAKING SALIVATING IMBECILE **TALKING CHILDISH MORONS. Then, get this group to make following: 1. Tank, move to the boss. Tank said boss. Watch out for specials. Offtank, pick up adds. Watch the ** out for specials. 2. Healers. Heal the tank. Heal the offtank. Heal raid. GTFO of the fire on ground. 3. DPS. GTFO of the fire on the ground. I said, GET THE FUNK OUT OF THE FIRE. Well, now you're dead. Whatever, rest of you, dps adds first. Then dps boss. Oh, and dont forget to get out of the fire. 4. ???? 5. Collect loot. Prepare to replace your shinies in a couple of months, as it will be obsolete then. This explains it best. /rage mode off What killed for for ME, was the so-called community. The entitlement sense (sp?) is so absurdly high in there, i cannot explain it to the fullest. For example: Everybody cries how HE/SHE is supposed to "SEE" all the content because he/she paid his monthly sub. Which is ok, btw. But, they do not want to do something for it. No. All they want is: Login, get epics (mounts, whatever - rewards). Which, for a MMO, does not make sense. There WILL always be people who are willing to spend more time in the game, who are willing to do their best possible. All sense of reward (which is imo THE factor for a MMO) is ruined if some keyboard-turner with the reflexes of a sloth gets the same loot as you. Why? Dont ask me, ask Blizzard. They "see what the players do and not what they say," It seems like the generation of Wii-nunchuk-swinging non-gamers has won. I salute them, and play Eve as long as it will go on. Agree on all of this.....kind of like the nimrods who want to buy sp and standings on NeX. People have no sense of patience or any will to accomplish anything. They just want want want. It's kind of like crying kids in a store that get told no they can't have this or that. Which i really really...really hate.
Maverick2011 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.03 14:06:00 - [56] Companies dont give a damn about core players, if their subscriptions are raising. Blizzard did right, dumbing down the game to attract more players and if you think WoW is dying with 12mil subs, then EVE is already a fossil.
Maverick2011 Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.03 14:10:00 - [57] Originally by: Tagera Originally by: Bek Thyron Eh. WoW is not hard, and it never was. I played since Vanilla. I raided Molten Core as it was "TEH RAID". I raided BC and most of LK. /rage mode on The hardest thing in wow is and will forever be: FIND A GROUP WHICH IS NOT FULL OF MOUTHBREAKING SALIVATING IMBECILE **TALKING CHILDISH MORONS. Then, get this group to make following: 1. Tank, move to the boss. Tank said boss. Watch out for specials. Offtank, pick up adds. Watch the ** out for specials. 2. Healers. Heal the tank. Heal the offtank. Heal raid. GTFO of the fire on ground. 3. DPS. GTFO of the fire on the ground. I said, GET THE FUNK OUT OF THE FIRE. Well, now you're dead. Whatever, rest of you, dps adds first. Then dps boss. Oh, and dont forget to get out of the fire. 4. ???? 5. Collect loot. Prepare to replace your shinies in a couple of months, as it will be obsolete then. This explains it best. /rage mode off What killed for for ME, was the so-called community. The entitlement sense (sp?) is so absurdly high in there, i cannot explain it to the fullest. For example: Everybody cries how HE/SHE is supposed to "SEE" all the content because he/she paid his monthly sub. Which is ok, btw. But, they do not want to do something for it. No. All they want is: Login, get epics (mounts, whatever - rewards). Which, for a MMO, does not make sense. There WILL always be people who are willing to spend more time in the game, who are willing to do their best possible. All sense of reward (which is imo THE factor for a MMO) is ruined if some keyboard-turner with the reflexes of a sloth gets the same loot as you. Why? Dont ask me, ask Blizzard. They "see what the players do and not what they say," It seems like the generation of Wii-nunchuk-swinging non-gamers has won. I salute them, and play Eve as long as it will go on. Agree on all of this.....kind of like the nimrods who want to buy sp and standings on NeX. People have no sense of patience or any will to accomplish anything. They just want want want. It's kind of like crying kids in a store that get told no they can't have this or that. Which i really really...really hate. Do you have more than one account?
Jennifer Starling Imperial Navy Forum Patrol	Posted - 2011.07.03 14:13:00 - [58] Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 03/07/2011 14:13:53 Originally by: Bek Thyron What killed for for ME, was the so-called community. The entitlement sense (sp?) is so absurdly high in there, i cannot explain it to the fullest. For example: Everybody cries how HE/SHE is supposed to "SEE" all the content because he/she paid his monthly sub. Which is ok, btw. I have the same thing in EVE. "Because you're playing longer than I do you're entitled to be stronger, more versatile, do more DPS and fly more ships". That's ok if you just started playing but it's less ok after 2 years. Quote: The hardest thing in wow is and will forever be: FIND A GROUP WHICH IS NOT FULL OF MOUTHBREAKING SALIVATING IMBECILE ****TALKING CHILDISH MORONS VERY true. The content isn't hard, just getting enough disciplined people together .. for 4 hours .. that's just very very hard.
Tagera	Posted - 2011.07.03 14:19:00 - [59] Originally by: Maverick2011 Originally by: Tagera Originally by: Bek Thyron Eh. WoW is not hard, and it never was. I played since Vanilla. I raided Molten Core as it was "TEH RAID". I raided BC and most of LK. /rage mode on The hardest thing in wow is and will forever be: FIND A GROUP WHICH IS NOT FULL OF MOUTHBREAKING SALIVATING IMBECILE **TALKING CHILDISH MORONS. Then, get this group to make following: 1. Tank, move to the boss. Tank said boss. Watch out for specials. Offtank, pick up adds. Watch the ** out for specials. 2. Healers. Heal the tank. Heal the offtank. Heal raid. GTFO of the fire on ground. 3. DPS. GTFO of the fire on the ground. I said, GET THE FUNK OUT OF THE FIRE. Well, now you're dead. Whatever, rest of you, dps adds first. Then dps boss. Oh, and dont forget to get out of the fire. 4. ???? 5. Collect loot. Prepare to replace your shinies in a couple of months, as it will be obsolete then. This explains it best. /rage mode off What killed for for ME, was the so-called community. The entitlement sense (sp?) is so absurdly high in there, i cannot explain it to the fullest. For example: Everybody cries how HE/SHE is supposed to "SEE" all the content because he/she paid his monthly sub. Which is ok, btw. But, they do not want to do something for it. No. All they want is: Login, get epics (mounts, whatever - rewards). Which, for a MMO, does not make sense. There WILL always be people who are willing to spend more time in the game, who are willing to do their best possible. All sense of reward (which is imo THE factor for a MMO) is ruined if some keyboard-turner with the reflexes of a sloth gets the same loot as you. Why? Dont ask me, ask Blizzard. They "see what the players do and not what they say," It seems like the generation of Wii-nunchuk-swinging non-gamers has won. I salute them, and play Eve as long as it will go on. Agree on all of this.....kind of like the nimrods who want to buy sp and standings on NeX. People have no sense of patience or any will to accomplish anything. They just want want want. It's kind of like crying kids in a store that get told no they can't have this or that. Which i really really...really hate. Do you have more than one account? Does it matter? If it came down to it I'd do everything on one. It's just easier for me to have extras.
Takseen	Posted - 2011.07.03 14:27:00 - [60] Originally by: pvt awesome Edited by: pvt awesome on 03/07/2011 13:29:45 Originally by: Alaura Aquila Originally by: pvt awesome Originally by: Khiijan Araal When WoW first came out, it had a reputation of no hand holding. Proof or GtFO. I remember when BC first came out, you had to actually look for quest items, I noticed after one patch they put sparklies around all the quest items. They did lots of similar things to where now, you don't even need to read the quest log. Okay, "Sparklies" around the quest items. Any other specific examples? Picking up a quest in vanilla -read the quest log and follow the directions to travel to the right area -read the quest log to see what mobs you need to kill to get the right items, or play pixel hunting if you need to collect a world object Picking up a quest now -check your map and head towards the highlighted area, or follow the arrow on your minimap -mouseover the mobs in the area, the tooltip will tell you which ones to kill, or collect any items with sparkles around it Also elite mobs were almost entirely removed from outdoor areas, and normal modes are much much weaker compared to players now. Most classes would struggle to defeat 3 mobs at once in the beginning, now they could do it without breaking a sweat. Btw why is this thread still in General Discussion?



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