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sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
330
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Posted - 2012.09.13 15:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Could we make losec more dangerous please for people moving around in cap ships by barring all cyno's from being within Docking range of any and all stations.
Currently Cap ships can move around losec jumping from station to station with pretty much free rain.(bar that one kick out station JFs heading to jita keep dying outside off, after they stupidly docked inside it instead of the other 40km docking ringed station. Use a cyno with a buffer and the pirate can't kill you in time.)
But caps can undock, jump before their invul timer ends, land in docking ring and dock 10 seconds later when the session timer ends. They are basically untouchable, which too me just seems wrong. Eve is Dangerous, or at lease meant to be.
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Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
509
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Posted - 2012.09.13 17:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've recently suggested this exact thing: Prevent Cynoing In within Dock Range
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
562
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Posted - 2012.09.13 17:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
These are cap ships, with jump drives intended to specifically avoid gates and other bottlenecks where their sub cap peers often find themselves snared.
I understand you are looking for an advantage that would give you a better chance for a sweet capital kill mail. I would love a few myself.
Think about this:
Risk vs Reward. The carrier or other combat cap is not getting any kill mails moving between stations. It is seeing no profit or reward. But when it is attempting to get rewards, it also is expanding it's risk.
Catch it where it hunts, or patrols perhaps. Set out some bait or hide where it does ratting, if it is that type.
Logistic runs, and ships performing in that capacity, deserve more limited exposure. They are moving items around, but not earning or being rewarded. Noone has yet used a freighter to mine or rat or PvP anything. (To my knowledge! Some weird tests may have been done in the past)
Yes, the ship might be moving expensive goodies you want to take, but it neither earned the ISK for them nor did it kill them and loot it. It has zero reward potential, so it should not be surprising to have limited risk too. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
330
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Posted - 2012.09.13 19:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:Logistic runs, and ships performing in that capacity, deserve more limited exposure. They are moving items around, but not earning or being rewarded. Noone has yet used a freighter to mine or rat or PvP anything. (To my knowledge! Some weird tests may have been done in the past)
There was a time people actively protected there logistic runners by escorting them through said pirate space and beyond. Now there is no need, because the only real danger seems to be stupidity.
Its not as if you can't like the cyno in a BB and then triple web the thing you're bringing in. I'd just like a small chance at catching things. Not op easy, just a small chance that quick thinking gets me the chance of a nice kill. Also be nice if people had to protect there lines in again. More losec, not up on how null guys do it, but I'd assume they at lease protect them a little. |
Merkal Aubauch
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
5
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Posted - 2012.09.13 19:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Remove JFs and disallow freighters to jump thru JBs and titan bridges.
Bring back freigter convoys.
Profit? More things to do instead ship spinning.
PS yea i do own JF |
Anhenka
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
46
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Posted - 2012.09.13 20:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Merkal Aubauch wrote:Remove JFs and disallow freighters to jump thru JBs and titan bridges.
Bring back freigter convoys.
Profit? More things to do instead ship spinning.
PS yea i do own JF
Freighter convoys in the current EVE environment where everyone and their pet has a titan to bridge a fleet on top of the convoy.
Anyone want to guess the odds of a convoy of freighters making it 20 + jumps through nullsec with any hostile faction within 3 titan bridge ranges and spies in local alliances?
I'd drop 40 suicide drakes or tier 3's off a convoy. Get a cloaky dictor to drop a drag or stop bubble or a suprise bubble on entry gate and tada! How many freighters do you think a 40 man 1400 fit tornado gang siting at 140km could kill before the freighters made it out of the suicide dictors bubble? |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
562
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Posted - 2012.09.13 20:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Quote:Logistic runs, and ships performing in that capacity, deserve more limited exposure. They are moving items around, but not earning or being rewarded. Noone has yet used a freighter to mine or rat or PvP anything. (To my knowledge! Some weird tests may have been done in the past) There was a time people actively protected there logistic runners by escorting them through said pirate space and beyond. Now there is no need, because the only real danger seems to be stupidity.
Its not as if you can't like the cyno in a BB and then triple web the thing you're bringing in. I'd just like a small chance at catching things. Not op easy, just a small chance that quick thinking gets me the chance of a nice kill. Also be nice if people had to protect there lines in again. More losec, not up on how null guys do it, but I'd assume they at lease protect them a little. Oh no, please not that again...
I was painfully familiar with the freighter convoy system, where you needed a fleet just to move your own stuff around. It was not good for the game then, and while many pilots may not have experienced it, they would not like it any more than we did.
We have risk exposure when we mine, rat, or PvP. We deserve this risk for the competitive nature of the rewards we are after.
But raising the bar on just moving goods around? I believe this will just restore part of the obstacle that kept the little guys out of null, because smaller corps and alliances had a harder time pulling together defense fleets compared to the bigger alliances. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
feihcsiM
Last Exit For The Lost Dark Therapy
41
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Posted - 2012.09.14 11:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Make it so any lit lowsec cyno is jumpable to by any cap ship within range. Should spice things up a little. It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. |
RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
50
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Posted - 2012.09.14 13:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well I will start by saying, I STILL (Yes even after 6 years of suggesting it) believe that Industrial, Transport, Freighters and Jump Freighters should have built-in Defensive Turret Systems.
I know that has little to do what is being discussed here, but while I agree Conveys w/Protection Fleets is sorely missed by a few of us... part of the issue previously was simply it wasn't possible to actually protect them. As noted above frankly this is even more true with everyone having Titan Bridge capabilities.
It is a little sad on the whole that Titans are no longer a particularly unique ship, but more so that the primary use we have for them is logistically moving fleets about. :sigh:
Still I do agree that it is a bit of a b***h that pilots are capable of jumping prior to becoming vunerable to attack. Mind we could say the same about Station Games, which frankly is something I think needs to realistically be addressed first.
Heck the only reason we even have the 20s (or is it 30, they went through a phase of changing it) Undock protection timer is for the same reason they added Cloaking after jumping through a gate. Camping lil b***hs waiting for easy kills while a pilot was dealing with latency of transfer between different game systems.
Sure on the one hand it made camping far more frustrating, but then on the other it prevents alot of cheap kills and podding.
Now in my opinion the Solution should be two-fold. Firstly there should be a Dock & UnDock Animation, partly because doing this instantly with a simple loading screen ... frankly is silly and breaks in-game immersion.
I'd highly recommend people checkout Elite 2 - Frontier Docking / Undocking Animation, it wasn't added to hide a loading screen (like would be the case with EVE) but rather it was used for realism means. The Station had Advertisements on the Walls that you could read as you entered and exited ... this would therefor not only hide the ugly loading bar, but also would serve to allow Player Corporations to put their own Advertisements there for Recruitment, Transport, Ship Production or Mercenary Services. It doesn't really matter what, but would make a nice (AND USEFUL) ISK Sink.
The second aspect here would be a "Non-Aggression Zone" I mean I think we can pretty much all agree being Station Camped is a crock of s**t... not to mention it makes Jita 4-4 the MOST painful place to fly through because everyone camps the undock for GCC Kills of ships flying expensive cargo in easy to suicide ships.
Well given the Dock / Undock Range is approx. 50km right now, why not make it so any aggressive action within that area (be it from within it, or a ship that is currently residing in it) causes the Station to Open Fire. Now if each Station also is given a basic Police Force that will also engage the enemy (Scramming them if they get in Range) with the Stats of a well fitted PvP version of the ship they are flying.
Personally I would want to reduce that range, so say when you warp to station you land within a designated 10km area of the Dock/Undock Hanger (like how planets work, planets instead should work how the Station Docking/Undocking work) then you can reduce the "Non-Aggression Zone" to say 15km
The final aspect of this would also be that you wouldn't be able to Jump or Warp within this 15km of Undock "Non-Aggression Zone" ... Forcing people to move outside of this "safe" zone, to perform their Jump/Warp operations. Sure this would be a little painful for Freighters, but perhaps they could get a Temporary power boost from the Station to increase their Engines output by 100% until they cleared the 15km area.
Point is this would provide a "Safe" zone for Fleets to Rally at (unlike the Starbase, which sure the bubble is a good place to do it but that is gonna disappear next year) ... but also you look at it this way, it gives both sides a chance.
The Freighter / Capital Pilot, would obviously be spamming the Warp / Jump button; where-as the Would-be Ganker would be trying to gauge when the ship has left the protection zone. Everyone becomes equally unhappy and happy at the same time, thus a little skill and luck enter the equasion making it a fun little game mechanic.
I see a similar situation with Stargates, where rather than the gates basically transferring you instantly between them (within a 15km range) instead it should be more of a "catapult" effect... where the ship exits in a random point behind the gate up to several AU. Yes, I know "What about Gate Camping?!" but look at it this way - you would still get the Gate Activation to notify you there is someone inbound.
There could then be a new type of anomoly (similar to a Wormhole) that can be scanned down. I mean basically the Jump Bridges and Stargates technically work the same way ... so in effect there would be a Cynosural Beacon, and I mean I think the same should be for normal Cyno beacons that an Alert comes in that it has occured but you HAVE to scan them down.
The larger the object coming through, the biggest the Cyno, thus the easier to scan down. To me that would stop the boring gate camping, make it easier to slip through systems as a small guerilla group but as a large fleet you're pretty much guarenteed to be landing hot; which is the case 90% of the time anyway. Still it would add a fantastic mechanic based around the Scanning, which on the whole while well used by pirates to catch prey; everyone else tends to ignore it unless looking for anomolies or wormholes. It to me should be a legitimate means of picking fights. |
King Rothgar
Black Watch Guard
302
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Posted - 2012.09.14 18:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
JF's are basically invulnerable to attack barring remarkable stupidity but this isn't the solution. Not supported. The Troll is trolling. |
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Anhenka
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
50
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Posted - 2012.09.14 21:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
So after typing up an entire goddamn thesis on all the way the above wall-of-text was awful and hilariously bad game design breaking empire miners, hauler, mission runners, nullsec anomaly runners, hotdrops, territorial control gatecamps, and how it would be a huge buff to gatecamps and station snipers and make incoming cyno's for JF's even more secure than current system, I accidental deleted it all by hitting ctrl V a half second before posting it.
TLDR: Pffff.......lolno. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1692
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Posted - 2012.09.15 07:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Just delete cynos already, allow caps to jump themselves and then add a nerf to jumping, preventing cap pilots from jumping to within docking range of any celestial. |
Dan Carter Murray
118
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Posted - 2012.09.15 09:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Could we make losec more dangerous please for people moving around in cap ships by barring all cyno's from being within Docking range of any and all stations.
Currently Cap ships can move around losec jumping from station to station with pretty much free rain.(bar that one kick out station JFs heading to jita keep dying outside off, after they stupidly docked inside it instead of the other 40km docking ringed station. Use a cyno with a buffer and the pirate can't kill you in time.)
But caps can undock, jump before their invul timer ends, land in docking ring and dock 10 seconds later when the session timer ends. They are basically untouchable, which too me just seems wrong. Eve is Dangerous, or at lease meant to be.
Try unblueing everyone since you're blue with nearly every pirate entity that actually can field the kind of fights you're looking for.
That will get you more fights.
You'd still have to undock though.
Oh well was worth a shot. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
331
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Posted - 2012.09.15 10:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Keep on topic dan and that has nothing too do with the ability to kill any cap that lands in docking range and docks before you can do anything.
Edit, also learn what alts are, and how few people we actually have set blue, cause its not that many. |
L4ST
Helios Alliance C0NVICTED
15
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Posted - 2012.09.15 11:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think this would result in an endless list of cap kills >.<
I don't fly caps myself because it requires tons of alts, maybe the initial idea was to make caps usable only by teamplayers, but well the way it turned out is that they are mostly used by multi-account players. CCP won't want to change this, as subscribers > all, but well thats definitely the "pay to win" part in EVE.
Definitely caps should be made more vulnerable while travelling but at the same time need to be able to travel easier. Your idea imo is kept too simple to be balanced.
so,well: +1; -1 |
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