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Somal Thunder
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.10 23:43:00 -
[1]
Nobody really agrees with me on whether or not low-sec needs fixing. To my general knowledge the only reason to fight for these barren lands is for moon goo in the area, but since it's so close to high-sec you can easily live in high-sec... or even 0.0.
I've never really had much incentive to go to low-sec, and I barely see more than 10 players in a given low-sec system (excluding FW folk and systems like Amamake) - and generally these players are idle. This makes low-sec pretty boring. I know some people do level 5's there and sometimes it's profitable for them, but what I'd really like to know is whether or not it actually needs fixing.
If so, what solutions can we come up with?
Discuss!
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Ayieka
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Posted - 2011.06.10 23:58:00 -
[2]
poiracy.
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Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.06.11 00:05:00 -
[3]
Hint: your OP is almost entirely made up of reasons low-sec needs fixing, and you ask whether it does or not?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.11 00:09:00 -
[4]
Depends what you mean by "fixing" and what you consider the problem to be.
yyy
tIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡`
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.v
y Karath Piki |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.06.11 00:14:00 -
[5]
Low sec needs to have an activity that can be profitable enough for the slightly above average player that it out weighs the risk of being ganked.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.06.11 00:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 11/06/2011 00:29:18
Originally by: Ghoest
Low sec needs to have an activity that can be profitable enough for the slightly above average player that it out weighs the risk of being ganked.
As has been said in every low sec thread that says this: they already exist. Level 5's and FW missions are both extremely profitable, as are incursions.
Lowsec has few players because most players either want safety or they want endgame content. By its nature, lowsec will be relatively unpopulated. Those who want to fight in big fleets and conquer space will go to null, and for those in highsec, no amount of isk per hour will ever make them willing to risk their ships, no matter how often they insist they would. We have a situation where you can make lots of isk and only die rarely right now, and yet they are still in highsec.
So then the question becomes, is it really that bad that there is a lot of relatively unpopulated empire space? And that is an open question.
One thing I do note in all these threads: those who are most insistent that lowsec is horribly broken do not and never will choose to live there. Those who insist lowsec is instant death and impossible to make isk there, especially so.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.11 00:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
As has been said in every low sec thread that says this: they already exist. Level 5's and FW missions are both extremely profitable, as are incursions.
It's certainly true for FW, but L5s are kind of poorly conceived for their environment and for the general mission game-mechanics. They've become something of a gameplay relic.
They manage to fall into two traps: one is the "bigger is better" mode of design, which isn't really compatible with lowsec, and the other is "more is better", which isn't really compatible with the way missions are handled. I still maintain that L5s (well` all missions, really, but L5s in particular) need to be axed and replaced with a more modern design based on the mechanics available in incursions, epic arcs and FW.
yyy
tIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡`
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.v
y Karath Piki |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.11 00:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Somal Thunder
Nobody really agrees with me on whether or not low-sec needs fixing. To my general knowledge the only reason to fight for these barren lands is for moon goo in the area, but since it's so close to high-sec you can easily live in high-sec... or even 0.0.
I've never really had much incentive to go to low-sec, and I barely see more than 10 players in a given low-sec system (excluding FW folk and systems like Amamake) - and generally these players are idle. This makes low-sec pretty boring. I know some people do level 5's there and sometimes it's profitable for them, but what I'd really like to know is whether or not it actually needs fixing.
If so, what solutions can we come up with?
Discuss!
This has been my problem with all ideas to "fix" low sec up til now; any attempt to up the reward vs risk there will end up making things chaotic at first but ultimately they will change nothing.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 11/06/2011 01:04:46
@OP, according to your metrics (players per system) null sec is broken too and more so there is much more of it..
Also, you start off pretty unbiased "..but what I'd really like to know is whether or not it actually needs fixing" and then straight away you loose it with "If so, what solutions can we come up with?".
Asking for the troublesome parts is ok for GD as it's a broad and deep topic to discuss about. Asking for solutions is a F&I topic and pointless, as you didn't really waited for answers on the first question.
If I were you I'd start over and concentrate on the 'does it need fixing?'-part and try to discourage players to come up with 'fixes' (might need a moderator to delete/clean the thread from those posts even) to make it worthwhile to read/discuss.
It's CCPs job to fix things that are broken. Players at best can hope for CCP following their argumentation that something is 'broken' or 'unfun' and willing to invest time.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!  |
Somal Thunder
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 11/06/2011 00:29:18
Originally by: Ghoest
Low sec needs to have an activity that can be profitable enough for the slightly above average player that it out weighs the risk of being ganked.
As has been said in every low sec thread that says this: they already exist. Level 5's and FW missions are both extremely profitable, as are incursions.
Lowsec has few players because most players either want safety or they want endgame content. By its nature, lowsec will be relatively unpopulated. Those who want to fight in big fleets and conquer space will go to null, and for those in highsec, no amount of isk per hour will ever make them willing to risk their ships, no matter how often they insist they would. We have a situation where you can make lots of isk and only die rarely right now, and yet they are still in highsec.
So then the question becomes, is it really that bad that there is a lot of relatively unpopulated empire space? And that is an open question.
One thing I do note in all these threads: those who are most insistent that lowsec is horribly broken do not and never will choose to live there. Those who insist lowsec is instant death and impossible to make isk there, especially so.
Maybe the issue is that we are not well enough informed of low-sec? Nobody ever talks about low-sec, it's always "I do sanctums/belt ratting/exploration in 0.0" or "I do missions in high-sec" for combat characters. People don't really talk about FW or brag about how much ISK/hour they make in low-sec (obviously since more people in low-sec would attract more pirates). This begs the question of whether or not we simply must know more or whether or not low-sec simply does not pay as well as 0.0 (which it shouldn't, but I think it would balance the game better if low-sec were slightly more lucrative, for the solo player).
So, maybe someone here can step up and inform me how much money can be made with FW, can anyone weigh and balance 0.0 and low-sec for profit gain vs other factors?
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Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tippia
]They manage to fall into two traps: one is the "bigger is better" mode of design, which isn't really compatible with lowsec, and the other is "more is better", which isn't really compatible with the way missions are handled. I still maintain that L5s (well` all missions, really, but L5s in particular) need to be axed and replaced with a more modern design based on the mechanics available in incursions, epic arcs and FW.
Axing Missions in eve would kill the little, poor and Ill conceived PVE that is left within the sandbox for people that want/need weekend or casual experiences/playstyles.
Yes, this is a PVP Game, yes ships are meant to be exploded, blah blah, people, despite how mind numbingly boring missions are< to SOME>, will keep doing them ad nauseam for no apparent reward to your or other people's eyes.
During my close to 6 years here, up to this day I still enjoy mission running, having tried 0.0, Low sec, Mining, Industry, Research, POS, blah blah. I always fall back to missioning like a lot of people. Why? It suits my playstyle, time schedule, and for the lack of a better word, it fits my concept of FUN.
Practically all that I have seen of EVE is Ammar/Khanid/Ammatar space, my faction with Minmatar and Gallente is crap and I don't bother much with it to be honest. After having tried so much in eve I find Missions a relaxing stance and way to pass the time in a game I love. I dont have the time to be in a full corp like before, I hate patrols, I hate PoS bashing or defense, I hate capital ships and the whole concept behind it, 0.0 is an experience I dont find fun but respect others that enjoy it to the fullest.
EVE caters to a lot of people, someone's boring stance is another's extremely fun matinee.
If anything, missions instead of being axed need to be diversified, the recent changes to agents quality was a step in the right direction, we now need more types of missions. PVE here is neglected, and I know a lot of what the devs do is aimed at groups, but believe it or not, a lot of people play in hugely detailed and extremely complex MMO communities to be simply alone or enjoy a casual stroll with a handful of friends.
No matter how much you try to coerce people into doing something or even make incentives for them to do something else, some people, including me, will prefer run of the mill experiences in a relatively "safe" environment. Yes I have been ganked, scammed, backstabbed and robbed like practically anyone on EVE, that doesnt mean I like it or enjoy it or want to make others pay for my ex wife leaving me or my daddy not loving me enough or for the LULZ, I just take it as the small price to pay for me grinding the time away in a mission I know to memory and enjoy seeing the little fireworks when the 10000000th pirate ship is destroyed and my faction is little by little being adjusted every 15 minutes. Do I get angry when a salvage thief, mission scanner baiter or general griefer pops into my room? Yes, but I move on, log my alt on the other side of the galaxy and be done with it.
And guess what? EVE having the capability of giving me MULTIPLE choices is what makes me enjoy it. If eve was just a grindfest or a Zerging Gankathon of LULZ I would probably still be in Battlefronts in RIFT laughing at others when I pwn them with my killer Warlock/Necro combo soultree.
To OP's general statement, Low Sec has always been the wasteland it is now, because it offers NO protection, no safety net of any kind. Heck, even some 0.0 regions are safer than High Sec.
No incentive whatsoever will ever move a Carebear out of High Sec short of making some spots in Low sec Hi sec islands <some of them around but not well known> and making it a haven amidst a sea of villainy and piracy with decent agents. As soon as that small Hi sec island or archipelago started to turn a profit an economy there would pop up soon.
---
Viva VENEZUELA!!!
Archipelago Theory
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Atlas Arnst
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:08:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Atlas Arnst on 11/06/2011 01:11:11
Low sec is worthless, it's only purpose is to bridge the gap between high sec (decent-high profit missions, zero-profit mining) and null sec (loads o' monee), which it fails horribly at because low sec has all the risk but almost none of the reward of nullsec.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Brujo Loco
Axing Missions in eve would kill the little, poor and Ill conceived PVE that is left within the sandbox for people that want/need weekend or casual experiences/playstyles.
`did you read the rest of the sentence?
Quote:
If anything, missions instead of being axed need to be diversified, the recent changes to agents quality was a step in the right direction, we now need more types of missions. PVE here is neglected, and I know a lot of what the devs do is aimed at groups, but believe it or not, a lot of people play in hugely detailed and extremely complex MMO communities to be simply alone or enjoy a casual stroll with a handful of friends.
`soooo, you didn't read the rest of the sentence.
Then let me repeat that:
I still maintain that L5s (well` all missions, really, but L5s in particular) need to be axed and replaced with a more modern design based on the mechanics available in incursions, epic arcs and FW.
yyy
tIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡`
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.v
y Karath Piki |
Brujo Loco
Amarr
Brujeria Teologica
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Brujo Loco
Axing Missions in eve would kill the little, poor and Ill conceived PVE that is left within the sandbox for people that want/need weekend or casual experiences/playstyles.
`did you read the rest of the sentence?
Quote:
If anything, missions instead of being axed need to be diversified, the recent changes to agents quality was a step in the right direction, we now need more types of missions. PVE here is neglected, and I know a lot of what the devs do is aimed at groups, but believe it or not, a lot of people play in hugely detailed and extremely complex MMO communities to be simply alone or enjoy a casual stroll with a handful of friends.
`soooo, you didn't read the rest of the sentence.
Then let me repeat that:
I still maintain that L5s (well` all missions, really, but L5s in particular) need to be axed and replaced with a more modern design based on the mechanics available in incursions, epic arcs and FW.
Tippia, but I just love trolling people's post, not much action in OOPE today <3 to your girl avatar. Also you axing mission idea sux 
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Viva VENEZUELA!!!
Archipelago Theory
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Somal Thunder
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
@OP, according to your metrics (players per system) null sec is broken too and more so there is much more of it..
You're misinterpreting what I've been writing and substituting my ideas for your own. 0.0 space has plenty of very populated systems, although some systems receive little or no love at all, but as CCP has noted, this is already being addressed and therefore we need not discuss it here.
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Also, you start off pretty unbiased "..but what I'd really like to know is whether or not it actually needs fixing" and then straight away you loose it with "If so, what solutions can we come up with?".
How exactly is that biased? If it needs fixing, and I'm not saying it does, what solutions can we come up with, what suggestions can we make? After all, the game is molded to our ideas for the most part. If it doesn't need fixing, there's nothing to discuss, which is why that part of the concept was omitted altogether.
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Asking for the troublesome parts is ok for GD as it's a broad and deep topic to discuss about. Asking for solutions is a F&I topic and pointless, as you didn't really waited for answers on the first question.
If I were you I'd start over and concentrate on the 'does it need fixing?'-part and try to discourage players to come up with 'fixes' (might need a moderator to delete/clean the thread from those posts even) to make it worthwhile to read/discuss.
It's CCPs job to fix things that are broken. Players at best can hope for CCP following their argumentation that something is 'broken' or 'unfun' and willing to invest time.
I definitely agree with you here to some extent but I see no reason why not suggest people to come with their own solutions to the problems they themselves can perceive. I would much rather have a very long and fat thread about this whole subject than have ten threads with different low-sec ideas in F&I. Why? Because I will read everything in this thread but I might miss the F&I threads. You don't have to read everything in the thread if you don't want to, I often skip sentences, paragraphs, even whole posts and sometimes pages in a thread. I read what is relevant to me and if the discussion threads away to a subject I don't mind for, I'll ignore all aspects of things that I am not interested in.
Now please, focus on the subject and stop criticizing my posting.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Brujo Loco
Tippia, but I just love trolling people's post, not much action in OOPE today <3 to your girl avatar.
Why thank you.
Quote:
Also you axing mission idea sux
Nah` but your ability to read more than half a sentence does` 
yyy
tIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡`
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.v
y Karath Piki |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries
R-I-P
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:33:00 -
[17]
Maybe you should approach the question from this angle:
Ask the question - as opposed to hi-sec and nul-sec, what is low-sec actually for?
And then ask youself - is it preforming this function?
CCP: Consistency since 2003 |
Somal Thunder
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.06.11 01:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Desert Ice78
Maybe you should approach the question from this angle:
Ask the question - as opposed to hi-sec and nul-sec, what is low-sec actually for?
And then ask youself - is it preforming this function?
Back in '05, low-sec was supposed to be for making more money than in high-sec, but also being more dangerous, since it would also be a good place to pvp.
Now, the game has changed so much since then (especially since warp to 15 is gone) that I don't think I can begin imagining what the purpose is now.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.11 02:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Somal Thunder
Originally by: Tres Farmer
@OP, according to your metrics (players per system) null sec is broken too and more so there is much more of it..
You're misinterpreting what I've been writing and substituting my ideas for your own. 0.0 space has plenty of very populated systems, although some systems receive little or no love at all, but as CCP has noted, this is already being addressed and therefore we need not discuss it here.
No. Essentially you put up the question(s): What is wrong with losec? and How do we fix it? and the only reason presented by you to justify fixes is the above mentioned metric: players per system.
Originally by: Somal Thunder
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Also, you start off pretty unbiased "..but what I'd really like to know is whether or not it actually needs fixing" and then straight away you loose it with "If so, what solutions can we come up with?".
How exactly is that biased? If it needs fixing, and I'm not saying it does, what solutions can we come up with, what suggestions can we make? After all, the game is molded to our ideas for the most part. If it doesn't need fixing, there's nothing to discuss, which is why that part of the concept was omitted altogether.
How is that not biased if you essentially don't even discuss if and what is broken?
You tried to start a feature and idea discussion in general discussion, sweetheart.
Originally by: Somal Thunder
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Asking for the troublesome parts is ok for GD as it's a broad and deep topic to discuss about. Asking for solutions is a F&I topic and pointless, as you didn't really waited for answers on the first question.
If I were you I'd start over and concentrate on the 'does it need fixing?'-part and try to discourage players to come up with 'fixes' (might need a moderator to delete/clean the thread from those posts even) to make it worthwhile to read/discuss.
It's CCPs job to fix things that are broken. Players at best can hope for CCP following their argumentation that something is 'broken' or 'unfun' and willing to invest time.
I definitely agree with you here to some extent but I see no reason why not suggest people to come with their own solutions to the problems they themselves can perceive. I would much rather have a very long and fat thread about this whole subject than have ten threads with different low-sec ideas in F&I. Why? Because I will read everything in this thread but I might miss the F&I threads. You don't have to read everything in the thread if you don't want to, I often skip sentences, paragraphs, even whole posts and sometimes pages in a thread. I read what is relevant to me and if the discussion threads away to a subject I don't mind for, I'll ignore all aspects of things that I am not interested in.
See, that is why this thread is useless.. it will start to attract the 'fix that this way!' and 'why don't we do this?' one-sentence-not-reading-any-replies-nor-the-OP crowd. If you'd just focused on the 'What seems to be broken in low sec for you podpilot?, then you would get focused answers and a picture of the situation that can be worked on.
Just look at AkitaTs successful 1000 papercuts thread. It just asked for what is broken and how it's broken. Not more, not less. It still got the F&I 'trolling', but was way more useful for CCP and others to assert the current situation and gameplay/usability problems than a 'How would you fix problem XY in Eve?' thread.
Originally by: Somal Thunder
Now please, focus on the subject and stop criticizing my posting.
Prepare for the incoming move to F&I if you keep going down that road.. and no, I won't be reporting you.
Originally by: Desert Ice78
Maybe you should approach the question from this angle:
Ask the question - as opposed to hi-sec and nul-sec, what is low-sec actually for?
And then ask youself - is it preforming this function?
this pretty much..
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2011.06.11 02:06:00 -
[20]
I always find these threads funny, people talk in terms of isk and risk when it is about the social aspect. High sec has a defined characteristic of industrial endeavor and pve. Null has....something, I've never figured out what, any fleet bigger than 15 people is just sheep in the herd so what is my draw?
Low sec is my natural home, the place I most enjoy in eve. I don't want more people here but I do want more nooks and crannies, places to hide, hunt and pounce. I want routes that only frigates could take. I want maneuverability to mean something other than hot drop.
Think for a moment of the area between the trenches in world war one, all barbed wire and random bullets. Cut the wire, go under fire. Be small and unseen, attack like a submarine. Can't put these concepts in to proper words but do want to create a feeling. No mans land.
Fleet warfare was a good attempt to provide an alternative to being buttfeked by RMT FC's but was left to rot by CCP. Please excuse my cynicism, it's not meant as insult so much as perspective on the mind of the low sec player (you understand that as a forum user I must express my own viewpoint as the viewpoint of all low sec players).
What FW has given us is an understanding of the power of warp gates, the idea that restrictions are fun. I don't want arenas or pve, neither will I ever pander to a power block, such is the mentality of low sec.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.11 02:06:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Somal Thunder
Originally by: Desert Ice78
Maybe you should approach the question from this angle:
Ask the question - as opposed to hi-sec and nul-sec, what is low-sec actually for?
And then ask youself - is it preforming this function?
Back in '05, low-sec was supposed to be for making more money than in high-sec, but also being more dangerous, since it would also be a good place to pvp.
Now, the game has changed so much since then (especially since warp to 15 is gone) that I don't think I can begin imagining what the purpose is now.
How can you propose changes and fixes to something, if you don't even KNOW what you want to achieve with those fixes and changes? What are their purpose? What do you think to achieve with this fix and that change?
*speechless*
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
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Posted - 2011.06.11 18:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Brujo Loco
Axing Missions in eve would kill the little, poor and Ill conceived PVE that is left within the sandbox for people that want/need weekend or casual experiences/playstyles.
While I disagree with axing missions, since they can be fun and also serve the purpose of gaining standing, they are hardly the only thing left in this game for casual PVE. Exploration has become a much better option for this, though it is obviously not possible to do semi-AFK like missions.
On the other hand: it pays better then L4 missions (except perhaps for the hardcore multi-box blitzers), it's way more fun, varied AND it can be done quite well in low-sec where the rewards are scaled up quite nicely compared to the risk (except if you're risking a multi-billion ISK ship).
It's also much healthier for EVE's economy because it creates a lot less 'new' ISK and pays out mostly in player-valued mods and components for industry.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.06.11 18:21:00 -
[23]
Low sec doesn't need more ISK - that's largely already there. Low sec just needs more people PVP'ing in small gangs across all time zones. I've harped on this subject countless times before... so that's where I'll leave my comments. :)
--
Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
On Twitter
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.06.11 18:28:00 -
[24]
The problem is people being so risk adverse, there's really nothing that will make lowsec "fixed" aside from seriously redesigning some of the core parts of the game mechanics.
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Takseen
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Posted - 2011.06.11 19:46:00 -
[25]
I'm ok with lowsec. It has exactly the population you'd expect for such a high risk, moderate reward zone, IE very low pop. If you reduce the risk too much, its just another version of highsec. If you buff the rewards too much, its just 0.0 without the Sov system and bubbles. Maybe people would like that, I don't know.
If you're complaining about the lack of fights in low sec, that comes down to a few issues.
-losing a pvp fight is very very expensive, so people prefer not to engage without overwhelming force. That's sort of a global problem, but is probably worse in lowsec compared to WHs and 0.0 because in the latter areas its harder to run away due to bubbles and the defenders are more likely to have important stuff to defend, like a POS.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.06.11 21:27:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 11/06/2011 21:28:17
Originally by: Atlas Arnst
Edited by: Atlas Arnst on 11/06/2011 01:11:11
Low sec is worthless, it's only purpose is to bridge the gap between high sec (decent-high profit missions, zero-profit mining) and null sec (loads o' monee), which it fails horribly at because low sec has all the risk but almost none of the reward of nullsec.
False.
Originally by: Somal Thunder
Maybe the issue is that we are not well enough informed of low-sec? Nobody ever talks about low-sec, it's always "I do sanctums/belt ratting/exploration in 0.0" or "I do missions in high-sec" for combat characters. People don't really talk about FW or brag about how much ISK/hour they make in low-sec (obviously since more people in low-sec would attract more pirates). This begs the question of whether or not we simply must know more or whether or not low-sec simply does not pay as well as 0.0 (which it shouldn't, but I think it would balance the game better if low-sec were slightly more lucrative, for the solo player).
So, maybe someone here can step up and inform me how much money can be made with FW, can anyone weigh and balance 0.0 and low-sec for profit gain vs other factors?
Pre mission adjustment: 100 mil isk/hour easy without being particularly optimized or trying very hard, probably double that if you were trying hard. Missions are run in stealth bombers, usually. It all relies on LP, so there is quite a bit of variation in how much each person makes per LP, and players tend to keep what they actually sell in LP close to their chests.
The new mission adjustment made LP a lot easier to get and now everything is in flux (also I haven't bothered with missions in a month) so I couldn't tell you the current rate. I expect it will normalize to the same, since ultimately LP are valued per hour of earning them and people will likely put in the same hours.
The amount of isk earned in level 5's varies dramatically depending on how heavy you roll, but I've heard of people being well north of 100 mil isk/hour there when they roll with carriers or a team. (Disclosure: I myself have not ran level 5's, I've just heard about their profitability from corpmates and blog posts about how to run them)
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.06.11 21:56:00 -
[27]
Low sec has a very important role:
Free pvp. Obviously not free in the monetary sense, but free in the sense of the mechanics and hoops you have to jump through. In low sec, you don't have to worry about war decs, criminal flags or kill rights (for the most part) or whether you can pop a guy before concord shows. You don't have to deal with bubbles or pos bashing or sov grinding or supercap blobs (though you do get the occasional supercap).
Low sec is easy, unrestricted, and noncommital. Just how I like it.
If I have any complaints about low sec, it would be this.
1) Industry is a *****. Mining is too dangerous and hauling large amounts of trit just sucks. People aren't producing in mass, and so a lot of times the ships/modules you need aren't available. Most Low-sec residents rely on a hi-sec alt to bring finished goods from Jita. IMO, low sec should be more self sufficient.
2) Gate and station guns kill frigs and cruisers waaaaaaaaaay too fast. This means Battlecruisers reign supreme in low sec since most PvP happens on travel bottlenecks (i.e. gates and stations), and BCs are the cheapest ship that can take gate gun fire long enough to kill a target. Honestly, I don't know what the solution is here, but I feel that frigs and cruisers ought to have a place in low sec. Although I still wouldn't fly them :P
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2011.06.11 22:16:00 -
[28]
Most low sec is now completely deserted. I still see posts like "omg! low sec! pirates!" yes, if you jump into a low sec "hub" system adjacent to populated high sec you might get killed as per usual.
But low sec as a whole is now dead. Back in the good old days you would find anything any everything in low sec. From lone belt ratters and combat pilots, to organized mining ops, huge roaming gangs, industrial tycoons, pirates, "anti-pirates", mission runners, explorers, large alliances, small corps etc!
Now if I go 30 jumps through low sec I might see a couple noobs in frigs on a gate. Or some ships at a pos. Maybe 1-2 people ratting or doing missions if any.
FW was the beginning of the end for low sec. The huge frigate blobs scared away everyone but the pirates(no one likes seeing 40 in local), who eventually quit the game because there was nothing left in low sec to pirate.
So what are we left with? Some random pew pewing folks around a few key systems, a few FW noobs that are still left, and some control towers.
It is just disturbingly stupid how empty and safe low sec is now. I was so bored that I was even doing some missions for supplementary income. They took me to nearly a dozen different systems and no one tried to probe me, didn't see anyone on gates etc.
First they need to sort FW. I'd scrap black rise and create a very large region with a few central .5 systems to each empire, and then make the rest low sec. Make it so FW takes place in this region and they fight for space being able to make semi-permanent gains or losses of space etc.
Then make it so low sec is better connected to each low sec. Give some better rewards and incentives. Remove the idiotic FW plexes and replace them with the old style low sec cosmic anomalies we had before FW etc.
Some minor "boosts" to rewards of living in low sec are needed, but mostly the problem is how the space is now structured.
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