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t'raq mardon
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Posted - 2011.06.06 04:19:00 -
[1]
Cloaking is completely uncounterable and this is made apparent by players turning on their T1 cloak in a system and walking away from the computer for the rest of the day, or in all likelihood having a macro log on and turn on the cloak. This is a broken mechanic and not at all what was intended for cloaks. I feel relatively confident saying that CCP did not intend to create an avenue for AFK game play. Some ideas for fixes are...
A POS mod: This mod would decloak any cloaked ship in system. To avoid it being used to decloak ships trying to break gate camps it should have a warm up timer and should only be able to be used a few times a day, or even only once per day.
Cloaking device cycle timer: Having cloaking devices turn off after every cycle and making the cycle time extremely long, 1 hour base and additional time for skills or longer. This would only curb AFK cloaking mildly since you would still be able to go AFK for an extended amount but it would make a huge difference.
Cloaking Ammo: Model cloaking devices after weapon turrets, giving them a special cloaking ammo. This way someone cloaked off a gate gathering intel only has to leave for long enough to reload every few hours. Making the "ammo" .01M3 would allow the players to carry large quantities of it for extended operations.
Special scan probes: Creating special probes that are capable of scanning down cloaked ships. This could even come with its own a new ship class specifically for locating cloaked ships. Would make cloaking much more risky, but might be interesting. The scanning process would have to be significantly slowed in some way to avoid completely nerfing cloaks
Again, these are all only ideas! They are not exactly what i think should be implemented but instead are rough ideas that need to be shaped and refined.
Also, I'm not saying that cloaks should be completely nerfed. As it stands, using a cloaking device makes you completely invulnerable. You should still be in SOME danger, even when cloaked. The fact that you can cloak and walk away from the computer confidently knowing you will not lose your ship, even if you dont return for the rest of the day, is wrong. There should be enough danger while in space that walking away from the computer for hours on end has a reasonable amount of risk associated with it. In my opinion, you should be able to cloak and be safe for a short period of time, 30-60 min, before needing to do something to subvert the hostiles trying to find you. But at a minimum, a player should have to have some sort of interaction with the client to stay cloaked, even if that is only having to "reload" every few hours.
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Jaudark
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Posted - 2011.06.06 05:52:00 -
[2]
you should go in W-Space, really. that way you wont ever see if someone is AFK. Also, W-space has some of your best activities: Namely: - POS ship turning. - mining. - ratting. - ability to have a clean local where no one talks.
also, 1st reply
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.06.06 10:17:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Vaju Katru on 06/06/2011 10:17:45 The problem is the local chanel, just remove it from lowsec and nullsec. Problem solved.
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Marchocias
Snatch Victory
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Posted - 2011.06.06 10:23:00 -
[4]
T'raq... How many threads about this do you start per week?
If you really care that strongly about this issue, could you PLEASE don an explosive vest and detonate yourself inside CCP head offices?
It would be less annoying that way. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.06.06 11:06:00 -
[5]
you ******, why does this cr*p need a new thread. You already posted in ahother afk cloak nerf ****thread and got your answers, why a new thread?
Afk cloaking is fine and does not require any "fixes".
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Misunderstood Genius
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Posted - 2011.06.06 12:34:00 -
[6]
Docking is completely uncounterable and this is made apparent by players just docking in a system and walking away from the computer for the rest of the day. This is a broken mechanic and not at all what was intended for docking. I feel relatively confident saying that CCP did not intend to create an avenue for AFK game play. Some ideas for fixes are...
Kicking out: a random timer will kick you out and turn your MWD/AB on if you have one fitted. To avoid it...
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Prince Spiderman
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Posted - 2011.06.06 12:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vaju Katru Edited by: Vaju Katru on 06/06/2011 10:17:45 The problem is the local chanel, just remove it from lowsec and nullsec. Problem solved.
The problem is that players like the OP can't deal with threats, risks and... are too lazy to spam the d-scan button for probes.
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JkSparrow
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.06 12:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: t'raq mardon Cloaking is completely uncounterable and this is made apparent by players turning on their T1 cloak in a system and walking away from the computer for the rest of the day, or in all likelihood having a macro log on and turn on the cloak. This is a broken mechanic and not at all what was intended for cloaks. I feel relatively confident saying that CCP did not intend to create an avenue for AFK game play. Some ideas for fixes are...
A POS mod: This mod would decloak any cloaked ship in system. To avoid it being used to decloak ships trying to break gate camps it should have a warm up timer and should only be able to be used a few times a day, or even only once per day.
Cloaking device cycle timer: Having cloaking devices turn off after every cycle and making the cycle time extremely long, 1 hour base and additional time for skills or longer. This would only curb AFK cloaking mildly since you would still be able to go AFK for an extended amount but it would make a huge difference.
Cloaking Ammo: Model cloaking devices after weapon turrets, giving them a special cloaking ammo. This way someone cloaked off a gate gathering intel only has to leave for long enough to reload every few hours. Making the "ammo" .01M3 would allow the players to carry large quantities of it for extended operations.
Special scan probes: Creating special probes that are capable of scanning down cloaked ships. This could even come with its own a new ship class specifically for locating cloaked ships. Would make cloaking much more risky, but might be interesting. The scanning process would have to be significantly slowed in some way to avoid completely nerfing cloaks
Again, these are all only ideas! They are not exactly what i think should be implemented but instead are rough ideas that need to be shaped and refined.
Also, I'm not saying that cloaks should be completely nerfed. As it stands, using a cloaking device makes you completely invulnerable. You should still be in SOME danger, even when cloaked. The fact that you can cloak and walk away from the computer confidently knowing you will not lose your ship, even if you dont return for the rest of the day, is wrong. There should be enough danger while in space that walking away from the computer for hours on end has a reasonable amount of risk associated with it. In my opinion, you should be able to cloak and be safe for a short period of time, 30-60 min, before needing to do something to subvert the hostiles trying to find you. But at a minimum, a player should have to have some sort of interaction with the client to stay cloaked, even if that is only having to "reload" every few hours.
No! Why why why writing at all ih noone reads anyway? |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2011.06.06 13:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Prince Spiderman
The problem is that players like the OP can't deal with threats, risks and... are too lazy to spam the d-scan button for probes.
/This!
OP complaines about cloakers being 100% safe, but crys when he does not feel 100% safe! ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
Rek Seven
Gallente Zandathorn Industries
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Posted - 2011.06.06 13:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Vaju Katru Edited by: Vaju Katru on 06/06/2011 10:17:45 The problem is the local chanel, just remove it from lowsec and nullsec. Problem solved.
ThatÆs not entirely true. In WH space IÆve had afk cloakers camp the system iÆm in. They do this because they know that it can disrupt your activities in WH space and they could get a kill out of it.
The issue is that there is no counter to this and it promotes a semi AFK play style.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.06.06 13:43:00 -
[11]
You are right. Cloaking is completely uncounterable and I expect CCP to immediately reimburse the cloaked hauler I lost in Venal a couple of days ago. Obviously they used sploits to find and destroy me since cloaking is completely uncounterable. --Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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Tubares Shting
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Posted - 2011.06.06 14:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Prince Spiderman
Originally by: Vaju Katru Edited by: Vaju Katru on 06/06/2011 10:17:45 The problem is the local chanel, just remove it from lowsec and nullsec. Problem solved.
The problem is that players like the OP can't deal with threats, risks and... are too lazy to spam the d-scan button for probes.
I don't know that this is the actual problem at all. I think that his "invisible friend" stops working when there are hostiles in the system, and he has no way to get rid of them.
Sucks to be a renter in a White Noise renter alliance. Can't pay your "dues" if you can't have your "invisible friends" making your isk while you go afk.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.06.06 14:12:00 -
[13]
You're not bringing anything new to the table. You've failed in all the past threads to win the argument, this is simply a rinse and repeat of those.
You should also be truthful in your posts, you have a habit of not being so.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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j1tabug IWINIWINIWIN
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Posted - 2011.06.06 14:34:00 -
[14]
00 carebears need to HTFU and thats coming from a highsec carebear that been told to htfu by you 00 carebears
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EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.06 14:45:00 -
[15]
Oh look, it's t'raq mardon again.
Please to be getting out.
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t'raq mardon
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Posted - 2011.06.06 15:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mag's You're not bringing anything new to the table. You've failed in all the past threads to win the argument, this is simply a rinse and repeat of those.
You should also be truthful in your posts, you have a habit of not being so.
Actually it is you who have failed to win the argument. Your only legitimate replies are that local is the problem and that docking is also broken. This may be true, but fixing local would not at all fix cloaking, it would merely make the problem less visible, and docking being broken is not an excuse to allow cloaking to continue to be broken. Fixing them both is the right solution.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.06.06 15:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: t'raq mardon Cloaking is completely uncounterable
Incorrect. Problem solved! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.06.06 15:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Originally by: Mag's You're not bringing anything new to the table. You've failed in all the past threads to win the argument, this is simply a rinse and repeat of those.
You should also be truthful in your posts, you have a habit of not being so.
Actually it is you who have failed to win the argument. Your only legitimate replies are that local is the problem and that docking is also broken. This may be true, but fixing local would not at all fix cloaking, it would merely make the problem less visible, and docking being broken is not an excuse to allow cloaking to continue to be broken. Fixing them both is the right solution.
Your Keyboard
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.06.06 16:54:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Mag''s on 06/06/2011 16:55:41
Originally by: t'raq mardon
Originally by: Mag's You're not bringing anything new to the table. You've failed in all the past threads to win the argument, this is simply a rinse and repeat of those.
You should also be truthful in your posts, you have a habit of not being so.
Actually it is you who have failed to win the argument. Your only legitimate replies are that local is the problem and that docking is also broken. This may be true, but fixing local would not at all fix cloaking, it would merely make the problem less visible, and docking being broken is not an excuse to allow cloaking to continue to be broken. Fixing them both is the right solution.
There you go again, not being truthful. Your argument actually needs to hold up to scrutinization to win, none of yours have.
I've stated time and again the removal of local should be a package, which would include cloaking. I've never actually said anything to you about docking, in that regard.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Ana Vyr
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Posted - 2011.06.06 17:22:00 -
[20]
Why can't you simply use teamwork to overcome the potential threat? Have some players in PvP fits to guard ratters and/or mining ops from the cloaking boogey men? I mean after all, it's a team game, right...that's what MMO means, right?
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Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2011.06.06 17:37:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 06/06/2011 17:39:20 Edited by: Juliette DuBois on 06/06/2011 17:38:55 To be honest, that is a waste of time. If you do that you are better off in your own one man corp running missions.
But since local is what it is cloaking can stay as it is too. Otherwise you can automatize your safety (aka bot) completely.
And if you are really spamming these threads, I want to know your PVE account names so I can come and afk cloak you some more since you seem to enjoy it.
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Sishen Gzi
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Posted - 2011.06.06 18:28:00 -
[22]
Since any nerf to cloaks would mostly benefit botters I strongly urge ccp to investigate the isp addresses of anyone who supports this idea for botting and rmt activities.
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Martmos
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Posted - 2011.06.06 18:29:00 -
[23]
It amazes me how much crap people can say when you give them an anonymous tribune to actually speak up on. Wonder how much of you as**s would be saying this if your real name was posted beside the thread?
Kudos to t'raq for raising what is, despite all your completely useless comments hinting otherwise, a very real and, not that most of you would understand, intelligent issue.
I can see how afk cloaking plays so well into the gaming of all you yarr'tards out there (note the contraction between a mindless pirate's shout and a re**rd). It's an easy way to p**s off all those renters and carebears without risking anything. (btw, I'll always wonder what kind of social position you find yourselves in to fuel this hatred for renters and those god-awfull carebears. Have you been, as bottom of the food-chain in RL, bullied around so much that you created your own cast of people under you in a virtual world to urinate on???)
The issue here is the fact that cloaking is uncounterable... Now before you spawn yet again a series of stupid remarks, let me add.... WHEN SAFED UP IN A SYSTEM, CLOAKED AND NOT MOVING, NOT WHEN BURNING THREW GATES IN AN CLOAKER. In such a case the only time you acually need to be there, is once a day, after downtime to relog and hit the cloak again.
...Btw, the guy who compared AFK CLOAKING to STATION DOCKING. You are living proof that the well of stoopid has no bottom. Or if there is, you hit it and started digging ever more deeper.
As one, intelligently remarked, EVE is a game where everything has a counter. It's what makes it so great. I agree without a moment's hesitation that placing cloaked pilots in an enemy's system is a great way do disrupt their operations. Now contrary to all the yarr-tards out there, it's not because it alows me to pick endlessly on others that can't fight back. It's because such a concept goes hand in hand with EVE's perpetual state of war and makes room for a tactic used threwout history to hinder an enemy's plans.
However, what does not work here, is that such a tactic can be put in motion without actually having to play the game. Everybody is ok with the concept of cracking down on macro-miners. Why? They mine without anybody actually playing the game. So plz tell me, why should AFK cloaking be any different? (oh scratch that question.... don't want to give away yet another opportunity for stupid replies).
If you yarr-tards want to go on griefing everybody around (and plz do, it's an integral part of what makes EVE great) I have no problem with that. My problem lies in 2 other very distinct places.
1-That afk-cloakers don't actually play the game.. hence the AFK
2-That all you yarr-tards don't spend ALL your time griefing people and actually spend time posting comments on threads. Worst part is I'm convinced you actually find them intelligent...
Again, as T'raq intelligently pointed out, there are many ideas that could be implemented that not only would maintain the "griefing" aspect, but would build a whole new dynamic around cloaking in a hostile system to disrupt operations. First and foremost, one would have to work for it.
Yes I know, this does not sit well with the yarr-tards. They want to grief and work the least possible. Hence engaging only outnumbered targets, afk-cloaking, and harrassing 0.0 renters from the comfort of NPC 0.0 space stations, where they, in-turn, don't have to defend their own sov. (see that answers those who would of, intelligently, suggested the eye-for-an-eye response)
Despite what anybody can say, THERE IS NO COUNTER TO AN AFK-CLOAKER THAT DOES NOT WANT TO GET CAUGHT. In my own humble opinion, that is a problem. When ships safe up, we can counter with probes. No probes, no counter and he can stick around as he much he wants. Same should be applied for cloaking, except the counter should be less straightforward.
P.s: This comes from a null-sec dweller who is not a renter and lives off PVP.
Cheers
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Sieona Savi
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Posted - 2011.06.06 18:37:00 -
[24]
Like the Post above I do see the NEED and the Enjoyment of Cloaking and Cyno Dropping and Killing those stupid Carebears. AND PLEASE DO NOT STOP.
But here is my question.
If one red just sits in your system in his covert ship for a long period of time doing nothing. There is no real way to know if he is afk or just waiting. Or semi Afk. I dont see why there wouldn't be a way to see him or to have some way to combat an AFK Cloaker. I have nothing wrong with a person sitting there for long periods of time being cloaked AND being at his keyboard. But cloaking should cause some distortion somewhere that something could pick up. Now I dont think that we should make something that makes finding them easy but with proper training in "cloak distortion" maybe you could probe them down. Might take a bit of time... but then the cloaking ship could let the pilot know they are found out so they could move. BUT if they are afk. POP goes the afk'er.
Do you guys see something wrong with that? Or if you do I would want to understand why. Is the game better with AFK Cloakers then without? Feedback? |
EnderCapitalG
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.06 19:48:00 -
[25]
If a person is AFK, they cannot hurt you.
Stop making these threads. |
Martmos
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:01:00 -
[26]
Hehe, yet another stoopid remark,
Stop reading m8 if you ain't happy with mature discussions.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Martmos Kudos to t'raq for raising what is, despite all your completely useless comments hinting otherwise, a very real and, not that most of you would understand, intelligent issue.
his thread is useless in the first line, so it deserves nothing but useless replies. Instead of reading the answers to his concerns in other existing threads, the f** is opening another one, after being smacked in his other thread for his rtarded ideas.
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Sieona Savi
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: EnderCapitalG If a person is AFK, they cannot hurt you.
Stop making these threads.
It would all depend on how you define hurt. But in a sense they are causing me to not venture out and mine or do missions or other null sec releated activities because of his presence. I endevour that we do need to protect our space but since we cannot at present there is not much I can do but to play it safe.
So he is in fact hurting me.
Where I will concede that it keeps me on toes and needing friends to protect me, And if your goal is to get me to protect myself; You cannot remove the ability for me to protect myself. But by making it so I can only have friends around is somewhat limiting. And dare I say limiting to you too. Unless you goal is to disrupt my null sec operations without any work at all, I donÆt see the point of you fighting against the need for some way to combat afk null sec cloakers. And if you want more interaction and fights and more PvP, then by providing us more ways to interact with you wouldnÆt that just make it LESS carebare? And More MMO and more PvP? Otherwise I appreciate the response.
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Sieona Savi
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:25:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Originally by: Martmos Kudos to t'raq for raising what is, despite all your completely useless comments hinting otherwise, a very real and, not that most of you would understand, intelligent issue.
his thread is useless in the first line, so it deserves nothing but useless replies. Instead of reading the answers to his concerns in other existing threads, the f** is opening another one, after being smacked in his other thread for his rtarded ideas.
What was the Reason for allowing the AFK cloakers to be undetectable, provided in the other thread? I am curious.
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Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
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Posted - 2011.06.06 20:47:00 -
[30]
There are some very serious issues in the game that need to be addressed. This, however, is not one of them.
Worried that the person cloaked in your system could uncloak and attack at any time? Bring a friend and rat, mission or mine with them.
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