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Decorum'Est
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Posted - 2011.06.05 10:47:00 -
[1]
Please change the cargo capacity to 615 m3. Giving it only 250 m3 was short-sighted
Vangel
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.05 10:57:00 -
[2]
jesus that thing has more cap than a logistics ship : O
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.05 11:08:00 -
[3]
Oh please post more shots of it and the frig version.
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Mica Swanhaven
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Posted - 2011.06.05 11:17:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Naomi Wildfire Oh please post more shots of it and the frig version.
the new punisher model looks fing awesome. So much more detail in the normal map.
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Dinta Zembo
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Posted - 2011.06.05 11:59:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Naomi Wildfire Oh please post more shots of it and the frig version.
Vangel and malice
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.05 12:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dinta Zembo
Originally by: Naomi Wildfire Oh please post more shots of it and the frig version.
Vangel and malice
Thanks, the Malice looks awesome, not too eager about the Vangel, i even dislike its name.
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.05 14:48:00 -
[7]
I'm supporting this.
Both the Mimir and Adrestia are good enough to be usable in actual pvp by ballsy pilots.
The Vangel? Not so much. ____________________________________________
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.05 15:25:00 -
[8]
While i tend to agree, the ship has more than double the cap of a sacrilege (more than half of a BS), has the RoF bonus applied to heavy missiles aswell and has 2 utility slots. With max skills it should have a giant cap and has a base recharge of 50 seconds faster than the sac.
Considering that you shouldnt really need that many cap charges, but more is always better.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.06.05 16:33:00 -
[9]
Battlecruiser (Prophecy) sized capacitor with frigate (Punisher) recharge time.
You'll have a hard time depleting that sucker, has more base recharge than a max skilled Sacrilege w. large battery but with a bigger cap-buffer!
Biggest problem I see is that it has same (or less?) damage as the Sacrilege which is just ******ed.
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.06.05 16:48:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Naomi Wildfire on 05/06/2011 16:48:38
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Biggest problem I see is that it has same (or less?) damage as the Sacrilege which is just ******ed.
Well, its a mix of Sac and Curse.
Sac can field 3 Drones, Vangel 5 of the same size. Sac can use 5 Launcher with damage only to HAMs and max 25% RoF to Launchers, Vangel can use 4 Launcher with 50% RoF, paired with the neuting range of a curse and the same neuting power per neut.
So, if you are using it with distance to your target you get more DPS out of it as a Sac, as long as you arent using HAMs.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.06.05 16:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Naomi Wildfire Well, its a mix of Sac and Curse...
Unless they made a typo then it looks like they threw in half a Guardian as well (50% to armour repair systems).
Focused ship design at it's finest, CCP style
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Hitomi Fargazer
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Posted - 2011.06.05 22:57:00 -
[12]
i'd read armor repair bonus as local only... if it was remote it would read "X% bonus to Remote Armor Repair System..."
also note its repair amount not range like on logistic ships
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Sukyadik Fivedorrar
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Posted - 2011.06.05 23:46:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Sukyadik Fivedorrar on 05/06/2011 23:53:08 Edited by: Sukyadik Fivedorrar on 05/06/2011 23:51:48 active tank ftl, that things gonna die as soon as more than 1 person gets any sort of dps on it. i expect to see many on the market after this tournament, what a load of balls
hurry up with faction BC's already
That frig needs 5 lows like the slicer too, geez its meant to be an armor tank and you cant even get any damage mods on it, a T1 punisher's got more lows than that thing!
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Ashley Judd
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Posted - 2011.06.06 05:52:00 -
[14]
Both of these ships are 2 things - Beautiful. Not terribly useful.
The frigate:
- Has a max neut range with best available neuts of 14.7 km. This is well inside gang-bonused overloaded web range, so it has to be able to tank. Read on.
- Has 3 low slots to tank with. A punisher has 4. Taking in to account the higher base resistance than it's T1 counterpart, it probably tanks around (ballpark) the same, at potentially 50 thousand times the cost, and infinitely greater rarity.
tl;dr - At least give the frigate another low.
Believe it or not, this is a good ship in comparison to The Cruiser:
I'm better at illustration, so here's a fight vs. a solitary 'FOTM' Hurricane.
Quote: Honorable Vangel Warrior > Brb found a cane, lol Friend of Above > Np *2 minutes pass* Honorable Vangel Warrior > **** this game
Being armor tanked, he wasn't fast enough to kite at his 28km neut range. He eagerly sought to break his opponent's relatively weak buffer tank, but realized too late he was doing the DPS of an autistic kitten. By the time it occured to our heroic warrior to flee from a ship worth easily one thousand times less than his, he ran in to 2 medium neuts and a lot of capless DPS. He could only run his dual deadspace reps for so long, and lost the DPS/EHP race. The dastardly Cane pilot presumably smacked our friend in local, piling shame on his defeat.
I'm not fan of complaining about the status quo without providing a solution:
-Swap the launcher hardpoints to guns.
-Remove the rep amount and launcher ROF.
-Give it the frigate range bonus and a role bonus of 80% to energy turret damage (slightly less than the zealot, same range).
-Tone down the enormous capacitor and epic recharge.
-Change 250 m3 cargo to 500m3.
Keep everything else the same.
Sure it's stacked when compared to the Zealot or Sacrilege, but there's only going to be 50 of them, ever. They're supposed to be special, don't be afraid to make them so.
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Xan Drakov
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Posted - 2011.06.06 11:04:00 -
[15]
I'm assuming the Malice's "100% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage per level" is a miss print? Though an AF with the equivalent power of 15 small lasers would be fun!
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daint666
Minmatar Federation of Xenotech WILD BOARS
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Posted - 2011.06.06 18:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: daint666 on 06/06/2011 18:39:56 I can see similar problems to everyone else here...
-> the vangel couldnt fight its way out of a paper bag, i mean come on with 5 lows you can barely afford to stick a ballistic control on there to help that problem, seriously.
-> 5 lows again? yep, that's right you can forget about those shiney nano mods too, i mean come on a zealot has 7 lows! a freaking t1 maller has 6 lows!
-> Lets face it, (and make this pretty clear) active armor tanks DO NOT WORK WELL when your primary dps is from turrets/launchers, and this 'thing' isnt capable of kiting.
-> I'm wrong huh? how many times is the hyperion used in pvp? and well? that gets a nice rep bonus! -> How about the brutix? now that gets a great rep bonus too! but hey its dps from guns, and you need those lows for damage or we're back to the paper bag situation. -> The myrmidon works sometimes though, and why? because it can devote 6 lows and 3 rigs to tank, and still have drones that actually do something. -> The curse, being similar to this ship is something worth mentioning too. Most people in solo pvp completely ignore its "tracking disruptor" bonus in favor of a slick shield buffer, nano's in the lows etc, but hey it gets a drone bonus and isnt dependant on the weak missile dps some people fit to it. oh, and it can actually MOVE, in fact it went down in popularity AFTER the speed nerf when it couldnt MOVE :DDD (get the connection between solo pvp and moving)
Look CCP there's only so many of these things gonna be made so actually make them special? both these ships are a catastrophe. whatever happened to the times when CCP made the beasts that are tribal tempests....
yes, i am mad.
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Satyra Eventide
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Posted - 2011.06.19 22:01:00 -
[17]
do i see it wrong or do the ships have ridiculously high base resistances?
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Ady
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Posted - 2011.06.19 23:29:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ady on 19/06/2011 23:32:05 Yeah these ships these days need more power, cos they are already so rare, yet they lack the qualifications to be classed as rare.
3 lows on the malice and 5 on the Vangel thats just silly shud totally be 5 and 7 respecively
and how many missiles and cap boosters can u fit in 250m3, mind you who needs cap booster with that cap :)
just dont see the dps end of things as lacking space for dmg mods
AND i thought that rare ships or faction, dont u at least get a hp buffer, this is same as sac
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2011.06.19 23:47:00 -
[19]
more cargo for the vangel is needed urgently, the sacri already eats through charges like crazy.
on the slots ... that 3 slots on the malice must be a bad joke. even the 5 lows on the vangel are pretty questionable. i agree with 5 on the malice (brings it up to the retribution) and 7 on the vangel might not be a bad idea, it should have 6 at least.
otherwise fine looking ships i like the missile part of the vangel especially :)
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Tabbie Te'Jir
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Posted - 2011.06.19 23:58:00 -
[20]
I fly the Vengeance from time to time because it is a sweet little tackler, but that Malice is really sweet. Can I haz?!
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Selene Starsong
Caldari Debitum Naturae
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Posted - 2011.06.21 10:54:00 -
[21]
it's intressting to hear people complain about the ships, i mean, there will only be 50? on tranquility right? and theyll be 25-30bio hulls, not many people will have the balls of flying those ships :P, and if they do, bad for them, good for you, easy kill as many people state here... so by this time... you should have something to bag about next time you try to pick someone up.
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Jos Wijnants
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.21 11:06:00 -
[22]
Is that the Tournament price? Who got them ? - "can,t win if they shoot "Hydra or - "you are my master" Outbreak ?
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DeadDuck
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.21 12:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino The Vangel? Not so much.
You must be kidding right? That ship IS the ultimate PVP ship. If you know how to fit it.
Strength and Honour |
Randomize All
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Posted - 2011.06.21 13:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: DeadDuck
Originally by: Don Pellegrino The Vangel? Not so much.
You must be kidding right? That ship IS the ultimate PVP ship. If you know how to fit it.
It's a SuperSacriCurse +- 30% It's main advantage is that people will actually WANT to fight you even when they figure they are going to lose. That alone makes the ship more valuable to the likes of Hydra than any ship bonus.
It might as well be called Falcon Magnet though. If I ever had such a thing, that would be it's ship name.
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DeadDuck
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.21 13:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Randomize All
Originally by: DeadDuck
Originally by: Don Pellegrino The Vangel? Not so much.
You must be kidding right? That ship IS the ultimate PVP ship. If you know how to fit it.
It's a SuperSacriCurse +- 30% It's main advantage is that people will actually WANT to fight you even when they figure they are going to lose. That alone makes the ship more valuable to the likes of Hydra than any ship bonus.
It might as well be called Falcon Magnet though. If I ever had such a thing, that would be it's ship name.
TBH these ships most probably will not be used in PVP because they are so rare and therefor dam expensive. But saying that the ships atributes and slot layout are not good well ... I have to strongly disagree....
Strength and Honour |
Creepy Goat
Collateral.
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Posted - 2011.06.21 13:14:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Creepy Goat on 21/06/2011 13:14:58
Originally by: DeadDuck
Originally by: Randomize All
Originally by: DeadDuck
Originally by: Don Pellegrino The Vangel? Not so much.
You must be kidding right? That ship IS the ultimate PVP ship. If you know how to fit it.
It's a SuperSacriCurse +- 30% It's main advantage is that people will actually WANT to fight you even when they figure they are going to lose. That alone makes the ship more valuable to the likes of Hydra than any ship bonus.
It might as well be called Falcon Magnet though. If I ever had such a thing, that would be it's ship name.
TBH these ships most probably will not be used in PVP because they are so rare and therefor dam expensive. But saying that the ships atributes and slot layout are not good well ... I have to strongly disagree....
If I had double their value in liquid ISK I would happily fly one in pvp. It would be fun as **** and probably the biggest adrenaline rush in EvE. If you barely manage to scrape together the isk to buy one on the other hand, losing it would not be fun as you would lose all of your wealth in one go. So when you take into account the people who won these ships, I expect to see them in pvp before the end of July.
Eagerly await HYDRA's pvp vids spanwed by these ships. ----
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Shiroi Okami
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:21:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Creepy Goat
If I had double their value in liquid ISK I would happily fly one in pvp. It would be fun as **** and probably the biggest adrenaline rush in EvE. If you barely manage to scrape together the isk to buy one on the other hand, losing it would not be fun as you would lose all of your wealth in one go. So when you take into account the people who won these ships, I expect to see them in pvp before the end of July.
Eagerly await HYDRA's pvp vids spanwed by these ships.
I wish it would be so soon, but it took CCP several months to give us the Utus last time, so assuming the same here, it will be some time before we even get the ships, let alone have an opportunity to use them ------
My latest pvp video - Freestyle |
Creepy Goat
Collateral.
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:34:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Creepy Goat on 21/06/2011 15:34:33
Originally by: Shiroi Okami
Originally by: Creepy Goat
If I had double their value in liquid ISK I would happily fly one in pvp. It would be fun as **** and probably the biggest adrenaline rush in EvE. If you barely manage to scrape together the isk to buy one on the other hand, losing it would not be fun as you would lose all of your wealth in one go. So when you take into account the people who won these ships, I expect to see them in pvp before the end of July.
Eagerly await HYDRA's pvp vids spanwed by these ships.
I wish it would be so soon, but it took CCP several months to give us the Utus last time, so assuming the same here, it will be some time before we even get the ships, let alone have an opportunity to use them
I was hoping that they would come with the patch today alongside the new Mauler model, and to make up for last years drama. I've been a bit too optimistic about CCP recently, comes with a long absence in the company of hyperspeed-programming Indie devs.
Hopefully the anger from last years wait was the wake up they needed to get the prizes out in a timely fashion.
----
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Jos Wijnants
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.21 15:37:00 -
[29]
was gonna say "aah come on there must be some sort of punishment for staging the final" but i wont
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Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.06.21 22:59:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Kagumichan on 21/06/2011 23:08:59 Edited by: Kagumichan on 21/06/2011 23:08:02 Edited by: Kagumichan on 21/06/2011 23:01:42
Originally by: Decorum'Est Please change the cargo capacity to 615 m3. Giving it only 250 m3 was short-sighted
Vangel
Why would it need a larger cargo? All it'll be carrying (if anyone even takes it into combat) is crystals, which take very little cargo, and missiles, so it'll amount to a similar cargo amount as a gallente ship carrying hybrid ammo. (Or a Drake with 'too much ammo' :P)
Crazy cap though, that'll certainly help it from an Amarr point-of-view.
Maybe this is a hint that maybe in a future patch Amarrian ship cap will be boosted to make them less vunerable to neuts and vamps in pvp, and therefore, more usable \o/
EDIT: Brain-fart, just rechecked the stats and realised it can't use turrets and therefore doesn't need crystals. Updating the Maller model AND turret effects and then not putting turrets on the first 'new' ship that comes along seems kinda weird though.
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