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Michael Eads
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Posted - 2011.05.25 17:37:00 -
[1]
I recently started playing Eve with a group of about 5 friends about a week and a half ago. So far our Corp is up and running and the cash is coming in pretty nicely.
They all do combat related things and im the only industrial minded person so for now im getting some basic industry skills like refining to support my mining. I was wondering if I should continue mining and specializing in Veldspar for now, since im kind of stuck in extremely high sec systems until we move our corp. Im also kind of wondering what else I should train besides mining. Id like to have some combat skills and ships ready for use a few months down the line. As a side effect of training for a Osprey this fast to mine in, im also able to use a Caracal and a Moa. Should I go for a Drake? I think level 4 mission running with my small corp of friends sounds good.
Lastly, what should I do with my Veldspar? I have 2 million of it sitting in a Corp Hanger in a station right now. Sell it as is, refine it, make stuff?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.25 18:11:00 -
[2]
First off, what is your purpose in all of this ?
Do you simply want to make more ISK, or do you find mining and/or industry to be intriguing or even pleasant ?
Most people regard mining as a low-effort, low-reward chore, and simply engage in it because it can be done mostly AFK (and easily scales to multiple accounts, much easier than things like mission-running anyway).
Industry using JUST the minerals you mined yourself is no big deal, the percentage added value over minerals is relatively small for most items and in most locations, industry is only really "worth it" when done on an extremely large scale, buying a truckload more minerals than you could ever hope to mine.
2 mil units of Veldspar are only worth around 18 mil ISK even if you have perfect refine skills plus good standings and manage to sell tritanium at a bit over 3 ISK per unit after taxes. Not really that much, if you ask me.
I would simply sell it, either as ore or as minerals, depending on how much you can get for either - 1 unit of "basic" Veldspar at perfect refine yields just over 3 units of tritanium (1 batch of 333 refines into 1000 trit).
If your purpose is to get ISK, then by all means, go train up your combat skills, the customary progression being
Kestrel -> Caracal -> Drake -> Raven -> CNR or Golem ; other times skipping Drake and going Caracal -> Raven -> CNR/Golem (so you don't waste time on BC/HM skills) ; occasionally, it can also go Caracal -> Drake -> Nighthawk (skipping the BS class altogether and heading to T2 BCs) ; or even just Caracal -> Tengu (a bit on the expensive side, preferred by alt accounts or PLEX-funded characters).
Obviously, Caldari ships are not the only ones good at mission-running, they're just among the most "forgiving" in terms of total SP investment needed for a certain average decent performance.
For instance, Amarr ships are clearly better at missions against Sansha and Blood Raiders, while Gallente droneboats might be quite a tad bit better against the newly-annoying Guristas with their ramped-up jamming and satisfactory against most others (a Dominix is also one of the easiest L4 mission ships to skill for, even easier than a Drake in certain conditions), and Minmatar ships can also be quite good, but also need usually the most intense SP investment before they really become good.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
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Posted - 2011.05.25 18:29:00 -
[3]
Yeah, you want to figure out what your role will be. If you want to be the Indy guy for your Corp, and you like it, I say go for it. But the mining guy? Eh, as Akita said, it's a semi afk role not primary.
Honestly I would suggest combat role because that is a way to understand industry that many seem to ignore. For instance, if I'm in gallante space at a mission hub and I want to sell t2 armor hardeners, I wouldn't probably choose em hardeners because the rats there are serpentis, which is kinetic and thermal. So knowing the demands of the market is a good way to get an idea on what to build etc.
As a final thought, I suggest looking at going the logistics route and ramping up your Corp for incursions. Logistics is a "healer" role and very essential in many situations. Hell, in level 4s you could be useful.
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Michael Eads
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Posted - 2011.05.25 18:35:00 -
[4]
I do like mining because of its semi afk nature, I can play my guitar or even other games while making some minor cash. However, as you said, mining seems like it requires multiple accounts and alts to really bring in the Isk. In that regard, im not really interested in running multiple accounts to maximize my profits. Id rather just have one character thats set up will and handle things from there. Luckily, Ive only been playing about a week and a half so dropping training all my mining stuff isnt a world ender. I did use a neural remap on Intelligence and Memory, taking away from everything else. I looked at my mining skills and it looked like most of them would train faster with more Int and Mem. I hate to waste BOTH of them, but if I move away from mining and towards training up my Caracal and towards a Drake should I remap again to a more generalized attribute basis?
As for Caldari ships, I really like them. I love shield tanking, missiles, and their general design. I plan on sticking with them for the long haul.
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Michael Eads
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Posted - 2011.05.25 18:40:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Zifrian
Yeah, you want to figure out what your role will be. If you want to be the Indy guy for your Corp, and you like it, I say go for it. But the mining guy? Eh, as Akita said, it's a semi afk role not primary.
Honestly I would suggest combat role because that is a way to understand industry that many seem to ignore. For instance, if I'm in gallante space at a mission hub and I want to sell t2 armor hardeners, I wouldn't probably choose em hardeners because the rats there are serpentis, which is kinetic and thermal. So knowing the demands of the market is a good way to get an idea on what to build etc.
As a final thought, I suggest looking at going the logistics route and ramping up your Corp for incursions. Logistics is a "healer" role and very essential in many situations. Hell, in level 4s you could be useful.
Actually, id love to be able to find other people to join my Corp to do those things like logistics and some industry, but it seems like itd be hard to get a new small corp off the ground that peopled be willing to join. My Corp is a small group of about 5 close IRL friends that ALL went combat routes so far except me
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.05.25 19:21:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Greg Huff on 25/05/2011 19:26:52
Welcome to EVE!!! 
If you're going to be the only person in your group doing industrial stuff I would step away from the mining, especially if you don't want to run multiple accounts. Consider getting into the production side of things. You don't need nearly as many skills, and it's not as time consuming.
For help learning what to put on your ship (and what not to):check the loadouts on BattleClinicEveHQ - Fit your ships without purchasing anything (among many other useful things)
If you decide to remap your skills I would put them a little more balanced (leave Charisma lower than the others). It will make it less painful to explore different areas of skills (piloting, industry, trade, etc). By the time you're eligible for another remap you will have a better idea of the direction you want to go.
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Michael Eads
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Posted - 2011.05.25 20:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Greg Huff
Edited by: Greg Huff on 25/05/2011 19:26:52
Welcome to EVE!!!
If you're going to be the only person in your group doing industrial stuff I would step away from the mining, especially if you don't want to run multiple accounts. Consider getting into the production side of things. You don't need nearly as many skills, and it's not as time consuming.
For help learning what to put on your ship (and what not to):check the loadouts on BattleClinicEveHQ - Fit your ships without purchasing anything (among many other useful things)
If you decide to remap your skills I would put them a little more balanced (leave Charisma lower than the others). It will make it less painful to explore different areas of skills (piloting, industry, trade, etc). By the time you're eligible for another remap you will have a better idea of the direction you want to go.
Great insight, thank you.
I found a great PvE Caracal fitting on battleclinic so I went ahead and spent about 13 mill outfitting it with all nice stuff. Im going to go ahead and mine for the next 2 weeks since its about all I can do lol while I wait for the skills on my Caracal to be finished training and then run missions from there. Ill look into remapping my skills to be a bit more generalized as well.
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Lutz Major
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Posted - 2011.05.25 20:31:00 -
[8]
Welcome to EVE, too.
Take a look at the career guide. It gives a pretty small overview what is possible in EVE.
Originally by: Akita T
Not really that much, if you ask me.
I think it's okay for a week old char
I sugest you sell the ore, as your refining skills will not be good and you will loose much in the process.
If you want to stick with Industry / Trading get yourself a book "How to make spreadsheets" ... you will need one for sure 
Other than that: Don't hesitate to ask .. even if you have stupid questions.
Originally by: Michael Eads
I found a great PvE Caracal fitting on battleclinic so I went ahead and spent about 13 mill outfitting it with all nice stuff
Rule #1 in EVE: Don't fly what you can't afford to loose!
Take it by heart! 
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Cobalt Sablestar Icefluxor
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.25 21:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Akita T
First off, what is your purpose in all of this ?
Do you simply want to make more ISK, or do you find mining and/or industry to be intriguing or even pleasant ?
Most people regard mining as a low-effort, low-reward chore, and simply engage in it because it can be done mostly AFK (and easily scales to multiple accounts, much easier than things like mission-running anyway).
Industry using JUST the minerals you mined yourself is no big deal, the percentage added value over minerals is relatively small for most items and in most locations, industry is only really "worth it" when done on an extremely large scale, buying a truckload more minerals than you could ever hope to mine.
2 mil units of Veldspar are only worth around 18 mil ISK even if you have perfect refine skills plus good standings and manage to sell tritanium at a bit over 3 ISK per unit after taxes. Not really that much, if you ask me.
I would simply sell it, either as ore or as minerals, depending on how much you can get for either - 1 unit of "basic" Veldspar at perfect refine yields just over 3 units of tritanium (1 batch of 333 refines into 1000 trit).
If your purpose is to get ISK, then by all means, go train up your combat skills, the customary progression being
Kestrel -> Caracal -> Drake -> Raven -> CNR or Golem ; other times skipping Drake and going Caracal -> Raven -> CNR/Golem (so you don't waste time on BC/HM skills) ; occasionally, it can also go Caracal -> Drake -> Nighthawk (skipping the BS class altogether and heading to T2 BCs) ; or even just Caracal -> Tengu YADA YADA YADA YADA
Dude was asking about MINING and INDUSTRY !!!
Michael, convo me ingame sometime if you want some REAL advice too complicated to type here.
************
"I can not tell you what particular weapon will be used in World War III, but I can tell you what will be used in World War IV.
Rocks." - Albert Einstein |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.05.25 22:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cobalt Sablestar Icefluxor
Dude was asking about MINING and INDUSTRY !!!
A portion if it, yes. But not quite all of it.
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Shoogie
Serious Pixels
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Posted - 2011.05.25 22:48:00 -
[11]
You need to figure out what you want to do in the game.
Remember, every character can do everything, it is just a question of what to do first?
I'm an industrialist. I wish I had never trained up my mining skills. I know people who enjoy sitting in belts with their mining lasers going. That's not fun for me. If it is for you, then keep training that way.
However, if your friends are in combat ships, then you will likely have more fun in the game if you are also in a combat ship. (You can also be the industrialist in the group who builds ammo and replacement ships/modules for your friends. But I'd still recommend getting into a battlecruiser first so that you can hang out with them.)
The Drake is a standard, and is easy for low SP players to get into and make use of.
Don't use your last remap yet. There are a lot of skills a combat pilot needs which are based on Int and Mem: Drones, Electronics, Engineering, Mechanics, Navigation. I recommend getting into your Drake with 3s and 4s in your missile skills, then train up all these support skills to get better use of it.
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MeMongo
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.25 23:10:00 -
[12]
Personally, I enjoy the mining. I'm maxed out in mining and refining skills. And I'm maxed in shield skills. Which means I can tank most rats long enough to take em out with drones. In null sec, I can make around 30 mil an hour on ice, up to 80 mil an hour on ores. In empire, I can crank out around 15 mil an hour on the low end ores.
I enjoy this for several reasons. It allows me to be doing other activities on my 2nd computer, such as writing and programming. I can still keep one eye on local and watch for rats. And I like the beauty of Eve. Nice scenic surroundings, cool laid back music playing, and the relaxing droning of mining lasers. (Yea, feel free to call me a care bear, though I also have a 2nd char, heavily armed, parked within 20k of my mining ship.)
PvP and PvE are not the only professions in Eve. Pick what you want to do, and go for it.
Contribute to real space science! Join our "Eve Online Research Team" at Einstein@Home |
Greg Huff
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Posted - 2011.05.25 23:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Shoogie
Don't use your last remap yet. There are a lot of skills a combat pilot needs which are based on Int and Mem: Drones, Electronics, Engineering, Mechanics, Navigation. I recommend getting into your Drake with 3s and 4s in your missile skills, then train up all these support skills to get better use of it.
You raise a good point Shoogie, and in that I see I neglected to mention another valuable tool...
EVEMon
This is your high tech High School Guidance Councillor.  You can use the item and ship lists to compile all the skills required for what you want to use. Since it also clearly shows the governing attributes you can organize your schedule by your strengths and plan when to remap.
As a tangent to this... If you haven't already, get your Cybernetics skill up to 3 or 4 and get some implants to boost your attributes.
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.26 09:13:00 -
[14]
Also welcome,
I'm a little disappointed with those who characterize mining as an "AFK" activity; it's no more afk then mission running. You can step away from the keyboard for a few minutes in both cases. Yes, there are those who unethically break the EULA and macro mine.. but there are also those who unethically break the EULA and macro mission.
The point is this, if you want to make good money mining you can't "afk" mine; you must be present selecting rocks, belts, crystals, managing your drones and your miners as they leave and join the op. You may have to haul ore as well. If it is an op with multiple players you'll have to keep track of earning also.
If you multi-box, which is not frowned on by CCP, you'll have to manage all your miners lasers and move ore around for each while hauling also. While you may get good enough at this you can watch tv at the same time.. missioning is no different.
You are going to want to work up to more advanced mining ships if you decide to make your "eve living" at this.
I highly recommend the very good "The Complete Miner's Guide 3.0" by Halada. You can find it here in the science and industry resource or even by googling "The Complete Miner's Guide by Halada". Use this as your bible for mining; there really is no more complete guide than this anywhere.
At first, as you train up your refining and other skills needed to maximize earnings, you'll probably make more selling the veldspar as ore. Later you'll want to refine it and even move it to sell for the most profit.
Osprey is a good starting miner.. but you'll need to upgrade that to get more yield and to survive the rats in belts you'll probably be moving to with your corp.
If you don't know what you are doing yet - you should at least train the basic skills that apply to all ship survival, engineering, mechanics, electronics, navigation. You can work out the important skills in each with your corp..they will apply more shields, armor, cap, or speed and agility..which will be valuable for either mining or missioning.
Good luck.
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clixor
Celluloid Gurus
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Posted - 2011.05.26 11:12:00 -
[15]
The nice thing about EVE is that you don't have to make a decision just yet. If your corp is doing missions, than you can train up some basic combat skills, in a fleet even in a frigate you can help out.
You'll earn some isk AND standings which in turn improves the refining rate at NPC stations.
As for manufacturing i would suggest building missiles for your corp, or other stuff your corpmates can use. This saves you from selling stuff on the market as you probably can't make much of a profit there (yet) as you also need standings and skills to reduce taxes.
In short, try to earn some fast isk for some implants which will reduce future training significantly.
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Michael Eads
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Posted - 2011.05.26 14:11:00 -
[16]
Thanks for all the help guys.
Ive decided im going with combat/missions and leaving industry behind so im going to start a new thread in the proper forum to avoid confusion
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