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Chip Flux
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.05.21 19:43:00 -
[61]
its a dispicable way to treat your customers, some of which have spent years building those standings. How about justifying it?
I dont roleplay... I fly internet spaceships for real
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Ripley Nostromo
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Posted - 2011.05.21 20:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Half ****ed Jack
Originally by: Malartacha Foram
Originally by: Ghoest Lots of people are unhappy
So what? My standings, or anyone else's for that matter, are none of your/or anyone else's business unless we want them to be. As it should be.
Yep. Now you can cook up a nice alt, drive it down to -10 standings with a faction, join a militia corporation of that same faction, and cause the entire corp to get booted from the militia in seven days time...as it should be.
I think it's funny...
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Ankanos
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.21 20:55:00 -
[63]
-to add to the quibble-fest..
There are many old timers like myself (7yrs+) that live in NPC corps who help new players (and returning players) amongst many things,with understanding how the standings system works.
Prior to the change, we could glance at their standings and quickly advise them on potential problems (and goodness), where they might go to get the least hit on refines, as well as guide them to potentially better corps and agents to work for..
We could also point to our own standings to demonstrate concepts as well the effects of doing missions for opposing factions and the like.
(my *many* other gripes about this change have already been voiced in this thread and others)
It may not seem like much CCP.. but you know dam well there are many players like myself throughout eve (and not just in NPC corps) that take pride and enjoy helping the new kids on the block acclimate to eve.
Call it the "player-made" new player experience, if you like.
CCP.. if nothing else, please have your DevTeam draw straws and the loser gets to post a DevBlog on all the pristine reasons why you as a team, thought this change was very much needed.
(and if you only sight "need for speed" i'll slap you upside the head with a RAMSEN)
---
"You got some 'splainin to do Lucy!"
-ank
--- Resonance is the key |
Rasz Lin
Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.22 01:47:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jean Roden Why is it even removed? Have I miss a massage or article about it? I think nobody has really a problem with the old sytsem.
Brilliant CCP dev decided to recycle variables. Every time you open player info you want to see his CORP HISTORY, next you click on corp and BAM by default you land on STANDINGS tab. The thing is almost NOBODY cares about CORPORATION standings, they are interested in first tab, corp info.
Now instead of separating Tab index variable into PLAYER info one and CORPORATION info one they butcher whole tab :/
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.05.22 06:23:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Originally by: Shanda Lesial Explain this role playing aspect to me. Really because I role play, PnP, in games, even some (shudder gasp) LARP and in none of those situations do you ever walk up to a PC or NPC and see a huge note pinned to their chest with all their alliance and employment information.
I think you're missing a big point here. EVE is almost unique amongst MMOs in having no "fog of war".
See, in a game with elves and s**t, there's no such thing as "intel", there's no high tech society around, with nested information at your fingertips. You have a "fog of war", and you discover stuff as you go - that's part of the gameplay in an elvish MMO.
But EVE was different - here you have a science-fiction universe, where the user interface is pretty much a standard computer user-interface, and all the information about pretty much everything in the game is at your fingertips from day one.
That's a very special aspect.
If CCP are planning to turn this game into a typical "fog of war" type of game, then something seriously unique about EVE will have been lost.
The point of it for roleplay (not rp in the sense of hardcore story-jamming but in the more general sense of feeling immersed in a virtual world) was that as a new player you could just browse around menus and start to get a feeling for a vast, vast universe with lots of factions doing different things all over the place.
A new player starting now will have no sense of that feeling, no inkling that anything like that was even possible. Now all you know is your station, your corp, and that's it. It's like being a f*****g elf in an elf MMO starting off in some s***y backwater village.
That's not the EVE I remember signing onto years ago.
Still a great game, but the "virtual worldiness" side of it seems to be suffering death by a thousand cuts in favour of the "streamlined, easy to get into game" side of it.
qft
and i like your definition of roleplay as immersion.
the loss of importance of agent type and quality really takes a way the importance of getting to know the maps of eve...going system by system, looking up the agents and disvoering why one is valuable an one less so. A compbat level 3 with a storyline of the same factoin ? gold for standing increase... or three lvl 2s.. why Miah a and yardap such hub in kador ? somthing to look into.
And while i'm thinking it terms of agent quality, I am immersed three or 4 levels of abstaction game> internet space ships to fight with and build reputation and wealth within the context... to > isk is valuble > I'll run missions> Which ones pay the most...what corp ? > how does mission pay work > how do I get qualfied for those agents quickest > what are social skills > story lines ? > back to the maps to find agents that will get me to my goal .. combat missions with a storyline of the same faction? > should I change my goal >
.... pretty soon you're so deep in that the idea that you're at a key board playing a game is far far up the tree.... your decisions might require thought pondering for days.. asking other players in corp, researching forums etc... you are engrossed in the context.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.22 11:21:00 -
[66]
So CCP why are you willing to comment about other game breaking features you introduced with the patch but not this?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1513594&page=2
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.22 12:52:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ghoest So CCP why are you willing to comment about other game breaking features you introduced with the patch but not this?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1513594&page=2
Because they have no intention of fixing it.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.22 13:42:00 -
[68]
Ya but not being able to see the relationships between factions is is as game breaking as anything else dumb they did in the patch.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.05.22 13:53:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ghoest Ya but not being able to see the relationships between factions is is as game breaking as anything else dumb they did in the patch.
Really?
Are you serious?- you know you have a "tab settings" another "save settings" and you can create different ones?
ATM it's fine, CCP should also remove all information about employment history. You should not dispose of all those informations with a single click but you should work for them.
If you want to talk about recruitment: API Have some doubt? -screen shot Still having doubts? -full API
Problem solved.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.22 16:40:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: Ghoest Ya but not being able to see the relationships between factions is is as game breaking as anything else dumb they did in the patch.
Really?
Are you serious?- you know you have a "tab settings" another "save settings" and you can create different ones?
ATM it's fine, CCP should also remove all information about employment history. You should not dispose of all those informations with a single click but you should work for them.
If you want to talk about recruitment: API Have some doubt? -screen shot Still having doubts? -full API
Problem solved.
What you jest said was stupid and wrong.
None of that deals with the issue of not being able to see the relation between NPC factions.
There is no work around. Its just impossible to see now because the CCP devs dont actually play the game they are messing with.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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ka'Sin
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Posted - 2011.05.22 16:46:00 -
[71]
very unhappy about this change - I'm proud of my standings! Now nobody can see them :/ :/ :/ :/ :(((
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Masterkiller
Fear Factory
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Posted - 2011.05.22 16:53:00 -
[72]
Worst patch ever! Who the f*** decided to remove the standing tab? Go and play WOW.
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Rolare
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.22 17:25:00 -
[73]
Never cared about those things.
No difference from before and now regarding my playing >,>
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NekoGeko
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Posted - 2011.05.23 09:41:00 -
[74]
Patch notes says:
Information on a pilot's standings towards NPC corporations is no longer visible from 'Show Info'. You now see the standings information between you and the other pilot and the factions you each belong to.
I looked into profile of the member of my militia: http://i.piccy.info/i5/42/75/1537542/Standing.jpg So it is kinda bug.
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Skippermonkey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2011.05.23 10:27:00 -
[75]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - OLD FORUM I ♥ YOU, NEVER LEAVE ME AGAIN! |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.23 13:17:00 -
[76]
Originally by: NekoGeko Patch notes says:
Information on a pilot's standings towards NPC corporations is no longer visible from 'Show Info'. You now see the standings information between you and the other pilot and the factions you each belong to.
I looked into profile of the member of my militia: http://i.piccy.info/i5/42/75/1537542/Standing.jpg So it is kinda bug.
Yes if it worked like the patch notes say(ie Factions still being displayed) there wouldnt be a serious problem.
So why isnt CCP commenting on this. Its clearly not working as intended.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.23 14:48:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Kerppe Krulli For you complaining about RP element lets take this to the next step. Would any Corporation and especially Pirate faction want their standings known to strangers on who they like and dislike. Those are internal secrets to the corporation and pirate faction. So removal of the ability to see what player the person likes and is disliked by is actually a huge boost to the RP people. Now you have to actually TALK to the player to find out these things (imagine the concept for RP is RP with other people live!)
Now corporations can keep their secrets and the Pirates too, heck some pirates may not want to be known by outsiders who don't know how to look for them. When running illegal activities you don't want people to know who you are.
For non-rp people, CCP uses MS databasing. Even with caching, sending a DB query every time someone looks at a character can consume a good quantity of processing. Removing that query frees up both memory and processing power that can be used elsewhere.
If you don't trust someone to tell you about their corp standings so that it doesn't disrupt your corporation before joining then don't recruit them.
It's easy to tell in RL that Microsoft and Apple don't like each other much. It's also easy to work out if the Taliban and the US get along with each or not.
But without visible standings, how is a new player meant to know whether or not the Sansha Nation and the Blood Raiders like each other?
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Gharmin Ra
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.23 15:14:00 -
[78]
Such annoying change, didnt realize how much I used the standings information.
I'am a recruiter. Before bothering to convo a recruit I want to check that he's got no standings making it unviable to be in our corner of space. Say your based in matari highsec, does the guy have -10 to matar empire? Can he run missions for this or that corp we like to run next to home to keep togheter? Will he drop our JC corp standing ? So, if your looking to be recruited. Just post a link to eveinfo with standings and skills by default to save us all time. Worthless change, agents standings gone: Ok! No problem. Corp & Faction: BS! |
Hori To
Masuat'aa Matari
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Posted - 2011.05.23 15:30:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Shanda Lesial
Originally by: Jacob Holland
Originally by: Shanda Lesial Explain this role playing aspect to me. Really because I role play, PnP, in games, even some (shudder gasp) LARP and in none of those situations do you ever walk up to a PC or NPC and see a huge note pinned to their chest with all their alliance and employment information.
Repost to clarify.
Have you ever roleplayed in a transhuman, Gibson-esque world where the ability to pull up a file on someone and see every little detail about then, from the exact time of their birth and their full genealogy through every peccadillo they've committed to the exact answers they gave on their exams were because Megacorporations need that sort of information and Megacorporations own everything... including you? If that were to be combined with augmented reality then everyone would have a note pinned to their chest giving the full details of the character.
We're not talking about a fantasy or wild west game where a stranger walks into the inn/saloon, one of the starter corporations paid millions to implant all of the necessary hardware into your wetware which allows you to interface directly with your ship. They made you into a demigod and then they gave you military hardware and a significant credit rating, they even wiped out any criminal record you might have had in your former life. You are an incredibly valuable asset and Megacorporations, even the starter schools, don't just lose valuable assets.
You have been lo-jacked, every credit transaction is recorded, every transmission which goes through your personal fluid-router is recorded... why would you think the information on who you do business with is not available?
Your thinking goes back to a time before memory when there was such a thing as a right to privacy, while this is the corporate world of a dark far future.
While that is a right popper bolognium explanation for the feature apparently the GMs don't feel that this information is full acess and took out what may have been for others a immersion breaking feature.
We can really type all the hindsight explanations for game features we want but in the end as with all refereed RP, it does come down the GMs vision and not the players excuses for bad game features.
Also just for the records we are the gods of the Eveverse, we are above all, this is part of their own cannon, so maybe the obfuscation of political connections even in your transhuman lo-jack vers is well within our means and expectations. <Look ma I can throw out the bolognium too.>
As I said the only reason people see this as a problem is because we lost it, not because it is integral or correct to the game.
well, they changed the paradigms the world works on, the "GMs" can go screw themselves, I want public standings back. Next patch they'll retcon the Day of Darkness? Make Amarr out to be peaceloving hippies?
You don't change stuff like this on a whim. Or appearant whim.
@Jacob Holland : awesomepost |
NekoGeko
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Posted - 2011.05.23 15:58:00 -
[80]
Edited by: NekoGeko on 23/05/2011 16:00:14 Well the most problems this patch made to recruiters. Until CCP will make some changes I want to represent you a small workaround.
Player standing is available through the API so few minutes ago i completed to write a small java program that will show Agent, Corp and Faction standings requiring only Limited API key. It has very simple and, maybe, buggy GUI, but it works and it is better the nothing.
http://www.mediafire.com/?c4iq044uburdghp Program remembers the last UserID+APIkey and sorts entities by the standing from highest to lowest.
I am the adherent of GNU GPL so if somebody wants sources please email me on [email protected]
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.23 19:39:00 -
[81]
So I see they can answer my other threads but not this .
Even though this is about an issue clearly not working as the patch notes said it would work.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.05.23 19:54:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Ghoest So I see they can answer my other threads but not this .
Even though this is about an issue clearly not working as the patch notes said it would work.
Dude, you need to stop with the moaning. This has been bug reported and attached to a defect. Which means CCP knows that this is a bug and freely admits it. What the hell else do you want? ...
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.23 21:06:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Ghoest So I see they can answer my other threads but not this .
Even though this is about an issue clearly not working as the patch notes said it would work.
Dude, you need to stop with the moaning. This has been bug reported and attached to a defect. Which means CCP knows that this is a bug and freely admits it. What the hell else do you want?
we want it reversed, not "fixed". Fix will maybe bring back faction standing and thats it, but people used corp and even agent standing ALL THE TIME. One idiot at CCP looked at DB logs and decided it was eating too much DB cpu time and butchered it instead of looking at the source of the problem - standing tab opening on its own when you looked up player and then reused same window to look up that players corp.
Basically EVERY PERSON IN THE GAME that clicked show player info, and then in that window clicked on a corp landed on STANDING tab, that taxed the DB server. NOT people that were actively looking at player standings.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.23 22:08:00 -
[84]
You have a bio do you not?
Then put your badge of honor in there if you so choose.
Else wise this is an involuntary intel tool that hs been removed.
That being said, the information should be available in a limited API check for the safety of RP corps that do not want to take hit to corporate standings with varying corps.
Originally by: Jacob Holland
You have been lo-jacked, every credit transaction is recorded, every transmission which goes through your personal fluid-router is recorded... why would you think the information on who you do business with is not available?
Your thinking goes back to a time before memory when there was such a thing as a right to privacy, while this is the corporate world of a dark far future.
Do you know every implant that a pod pilot has in their head, every ship that is in there hanger, or every clone that they have installed?
I think my point has been made.
Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder Make a social skill for this, problem solved.
That could be interesting, but I doubt that is something the programmers want to try to delve into.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.05.23 22:34:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Ghoest on 23/05/2011 22:34:01
Originally by: Slade Trillgon You have a bio do you not?
Then put your badge of honor in there if you so choose.
Else wise this is an involuntary intel tool that hs been removed.
That being said, the information should be available in a limited API check for the safety of RP corps that do not want to take hit to corporate standings with varying corps.
Originally by: Jacob Holland
You have been lo-jacked, every credit transaction is recorded, every transmission which goes through your personal fluid-router is recorded... why would you think the information on who you do business with is not available?
Your thinking goes back to a time before memory when there was such a thing as a right to privacy, while this is the corporate world of a dark far future.
Do you know every implant that a pod pilot has in their head, every ship that is in there hanger, or every clone that they have installed?
I think my point has been made.
Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder Make a social skill for this, problem solved.
That could be interesting, but I doubt that is something the programmers want to try to delve into.
Slade
Stop making a fool of yourself. You apparently didnt even read the original post in this thread.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.23 22:41:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Ghoest
Stop making a fool of yourself. You apparently didnt even read the original post in this thread.
Your OP lacked content and therefore I addressed later posts.
Slade
:Signature Temporarily Disabled: |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.05.23 22:43:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Rasz Lin
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Ghoest So I see they can answer my other threads but not this .
Even though this is about an issue clearly not working as the patch notes said it would work.
Dude, you need to stop with the moaning. This has been bug reported and attached to a defect. Which means CCP knows that this is a bug and freely admits it. What the hell else do you want?
we want it reversed, not "fixed". Fix will maybe bring back faction standing and thats it, but people used corp and even agent standing ALL THE TIME. One idiot at CCP looked at DB logs and decided it was eating too much DB cpu time and butchered it instead of looking at the source of the problem - standing tab opening on its own when you looked up player and then reused same window to look up that players corp.
Basically EVERY PERSON IN THE GAME that clicked show player info, and then in that window clicked on a corp landed on STANDING tab, that taxed the DB server. NOT people that were actively looking at player standings.
I use local all the time (and so does everyone), still I want it gone.
You guys need to put a little play in your roleplay. ...
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Merdaneth
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.23 23:07:00 -
[88]
I think its a big boon to RP.
Now people actually are going to judge others on their in-game rep and their observable actions, rather than a stupid statistic that only measures agent missions.
I never understood it. Why the hell would those agents that give me secret missions publish the results to a galaxy-wide database. How can capsuleer spies operate between factions? ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.05.23 23:14:00 -
[89]
It's a wee bit annoying for those of us that make a living on standings, but I just use EVEBoard to get that info out if someone wants to see what they're getting, so not terribly a big deal. Just put a link to your EVEBoard profile in your bio and turn on/off the things you want displayed if it's that big of a deal.
I wonder how much the removal has impacted performance. - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring |
Envoy Achates
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Posted - 2011.05.23 23:26:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Ghoest So I see they can answer my other threads but not this .
Maybe their "A useless tard made another useless thread that he feels we are honor-bound to answer" alarm is broken?
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