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Marshiro
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Posted - 2011.05.14 08:21:00 -
[1]
Completely defenseless ships are terrible for everyone involved. People attacking it have a boring time doing tackle, f1 guns and orbit, while people being attacked in it can't do anything other then die.
There should be some relatively easy to train and cheap industrial, mining and freighter ships that have combat performance ranging from a frigate to a battlecruiser without effecting its performance in its standard role. (the combat ability is built in, you can't trade it for improvement in its standard role) In this environment, the solo roamers and small gang people would have something interesting to fight if they stumbled on a carebear and carebears can do something other then be completely hapless, more fun for everyone involved.
Now carebears would still avoid combat, for one thing their ships are more expensive and fighting makes no money, but they might actually bust a weak gate camp or harasser to get on their business or something like that, as opposed to hide on the first change in local without even looking on d-scan to figure out what it is.
More fights, less hiding, less ganks.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.05.14 08:29:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 14/05/2011 08:31:07 Python Cartel did an awesome op that proved industrial ships aren't gimps
Here's our equally awesome blog about it (I was the ECM mammoth of doom)
*edit: Warning! Python language ahead!
Originally by: Jada Maroo Many legitimate news stories over the past few years would not have been brought to the forefront if not for Fox News.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.05.14 08:41:00 -
[3]
The thing is that this won't work because people try to maximize their performance in one intended area and your combat industrial will still be inferior to proper combat ships in the same price range or it's unbalanced. So you'll get inferior efficiency in your profession in exchange for more expensive losses and pretty much equally poor chance of surviving actual combat engagements or you'll get seriously unbalanced ships. The first option isn't a good choice for the players and the second isn't good for the game, since using specialized and more skill intensive ships doesn't make much sense, if they don't offer good performance improvements.
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Opertone
Caldari World - of - Empire Cassiopeia.
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Posted - 2011.05.14 08:56:00 -
[4]
orcas, mining barges need some counter offensive capabilities...
industrials need evasive devices, like ECM bursts, built in warp core stabs, bubble stability for tech 3 industrials possibly. Also industrials needs to be classified as cargo transporters, ship transporters, fast ones which can go 5km/s, resilient ones with ewar and tanking abilities at the expense of cargo capacity/price.
Orcas may benefit from drone bonuses, such as sentry damage, 125 mb bandwidth and drone control range. Hulks will benefit from drone damage and hitpoints.
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Misstress Iteron
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Posted - 2011.05.14 08:59:00 -
[5]
Battletron
I have been lax of late but I will be stepping up my attacks. Unfortunatly I missed my chance to ask the devs if they could add a turret or missile slot to deep space transports.
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Anne Arqui
Minmatar Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.05.14 08:59:00 -
[6]
Like the Osprey, a mining ship could have an extra missile slot so it can't be used for strip miners anwyway.
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2011.05.14 09:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Serpents smile on 14/05/2011 09:04:42 Google for 'battle hulk'. Defenseless, nehhhhh.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.05.14 09:04:00 -
[8]
I'd rather like to see the ability to have some kind of group/formation effect, so you can actually protect those industrials by flying along side them.. Won't solve the boredom issue of protecting miners though, for that another mechanic would be needed
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Marshiro
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Posted - 2011.05.14 09:09:00 -
[9]
Quote: So you'll get inferior efficiency in your profession in exchange for more expensive losses and pretty much equally poor chance of surviving actual combat engagements or you'll get seriously unbalanced ships.
Ship costs are hardly the key to efficiency unless you get caught a lot. If you've mined 10billion isk worth of minerals in your barge before getting caught, whether the ship costs 190m (baseline hulk) or 290m (hulk with battlecruiser combat power!) don't matter that much.
If those combat-enabled profession ships are in fact the best in their profession (moves more stuff, mines faster,etc) they would be used. And when they get caught a little more fun is there for everyone involved.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2011.05.14 10:14:00 -
[10]
Defense for industrial ships and non-combat pilot is called intelligence. Being somewhere else is a better defense than any ecm or tank can ever be. --------
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Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2011.05.14 10:56:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 14/05/2011 10:57:50
Originally by: Marshiro Completely defenseless ships are terrible for everyone involved. People attacking it have a boring time doing tackle, f1 guns and orbit, while people being attacked in it can't do anything other then die.
There should be some relatively easy to train and cheap industrial, mining and freighter ships that have combat performance ranging from a frigate to a battlecruiser without effecting its performance in its standard role. (the combat ability is built in, you can't trade it for improvement in its standard role) In this environment, the solo roamers and small gang people would have something interesting to fight if they stumbled on a carebear and carebears can do something other then be completely hapless, more fun for everyone involved.
Now carebears would still avoid combat, for one thing their ships are more expensive and fighting makes no money, but they might actually bust a weak gate camp or harasser to get on their business or something like that, as opposed to hide on the first change in local without even looking on d-scan to figure out what it is.
More fights, less hiding, less ganks.
Any single stuff is defenseless in front of a blob.
But I agree your idea that would make the game more fun if the industrial ships could performs better in combat.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.14 11:20:00 -
[12]
The only ships that are really defenceless are freighters and jump freightsà
àwhich are, ironically, two ship classes with some of the strongest inherent defence stats you'll come across. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.05.14 11:25:00 -
[13]
But how would so many people have fun if there weren't completely defenseless ships for tear extraction?
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Adrie Atticus
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
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Posted - 2011.05.14 11:41:00 -
[14]
I believe all industrial ships have at least one midslot (except freighters). Now, what kind of a module can be fitted to a midslot which gives you a chance of getting away? Also, warp stabs work wonders on random gankers.
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2011.05.14 13:48:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Misstress Iteron Unfortunatly I missed my chance to ask the devs if they could add a turret or missile slot to deep space transports.
Ironfleet Towing and Salvage endorses this product and/or service. Do want! Battle Bustard, baby! ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Zaratustra
People of Random Nature
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Posted - 2011.05.14 14:28:00 -
[16]
Then go fight combat ships if industrial ships are too boring.
Stop asking for a weaker combat ship because you can't cut it against an actual enemy
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.05.14 15:29:00 -
[17]
Make collisions cause damage. Then every ship IS a weapon.
"It's a plan so crazy it...just...might...work!" "Ramming speed Mr. Chekov!" "All hands brace for impact!"
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.14 17:03:00 -
[18]
No ships are completely defenseless if you use them correctly.
Eve is an MMORPG. The second M in there is the important part, and I've bolded it for you just in case you missed it.
It means MULTIPLAYER. (There's that bold again, just for you.)
Ships that have no local means of defence are designed to be used in tandem with other ships, or escorted by other ships. The entire concept is based around making people team up and work together to achieve and end goal.
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2011.05.14 22:38:00 -
[19]
There is very little difference between a deffenseless ship and an almost defenseless ship.
A kestrel geting ganked by a hurricane doesn't have a chance unless the hurricane pilot's mom makes him take out the trash in the middle of a fight. Kestrels got guns and stuff but it doesn't matter... if you wanted to make all ships equally powerful... nothing less nothing more than a bc ... well that would be a different game wouldn't it
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Irulan Corinno
Caldari 714th SQN - Snowflakes
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Posted - 2011.05.14 22:43:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tippia The only ships that are really defenceless are freighters and jump freightsà
Shuttles!
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Riddick Liddell
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Posted - 2011.05.15 01:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Verone
No ships are completely defenseless if you use them correctly.
Eve is an MMORPG. The second M in there is the important part, and I've bolded it for you just in case you missed it.
It means MULTIPLAYER. (There's that bold again, just for you.)
Ships that have no local means of defence are designed to be used in tandem with other ships, or escorted by other ships. The entire concept is based around making people team up and work together to achieve and end goal.
How many escort Ops have you been on in the last month? Everyone knows whaht everyone else should do, everyone but me of course.
While I might agree we know how this game works. Its all about that "multi player" or more accurately, the gank and no matter how many escorts a hulk has it will pop under focus fire. |
Misstress Iteron
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Posted - 2011.05.15 01:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: riddick Liddell
How many escort Ops have you been on in the last month? Everyone knows whaht everyone else should do, everyone but me of course.
While I might agree we know how this game works. Its all about that "multi player" or more accurately, the gank and no matter how many escorts a hulk has it will pop under focus fire.
The same can be said about any ship.
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Yanshee
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Posted - 2011.05.15 01:30:00 -
[23]
Fit a Hyperion for maximum mining efficiency and see how much defensive capability it has.
EVERY ship in eve is defenceless if you don't FIT defences. As has already been mentioned, you CAN fit indy ships in a combat way but they aren't primarily designed for it/don't get any bonuses for it so are pretty lame at it generally.
Why do you need an industrial combat ship? If you want to do well at mining/hauling you fit cargo expanders, for example, and if you want to do well at combat you fit mag stabs/armour resists or whatever.
Multi-purpose ships are available in EVE. All you have to do is fit them accordingly. If you gave people ships with a combat bonus AND an industrial bonus they'd still fit it to do one job at a time regardless.
Efficiency and bringing the right tool for the job...
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Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.05.15 02:17:00 -
[24]
Every real ship (excludes shuttles, freighters, and free stuff) has at least 1 high slot, and thus can fit at least 1 smartbomb.
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Agallis Zinthros
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.15 07:01:00 -
[25]
Why? If we make Bestowers able to fend off Rifters, what's the downside of a Bestower? What's its weakness? Why don't we all just fly Bestowers? It's not piracy, its surprise PVP. |
Marshiro
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Posted - 2011.05.15 09:10:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Marshiro on 15/05/2011 09:12:15 Bestowers is more expensive (or should be after its and modded) and slow as a turd compared to rifter, even if it can duel with one. If a Impel can fight off a rupture it doesn't mean everyone would fly 100m ship to beat a 3m one.
Anyways, there needs more ships that can do proper combat (not evasion/cloak/stab/etc) without compromising its non-combat function. Look at ships in age of sail, where every transport ship can have a full set of guns to fight, resulting in pirate ships with great firepower, compare that to modern pirates using swiftboats shooting unarmed modern transports and which leads to goodfights. The one saber bubble camps and likes just means more time spend with scouts, cloaked up in safes and other very unexciting things with the occasional lazy person getting caught, resulting in a completely predictable and boring death for the bear involved.
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Doshia
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Posted - 2011.05.15 09:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Marshiro Edited by: Marshiro on 15/05/2011 09:12:15 Bestowers is more expensive (or should be after its and modded) and slow as a turd compared to rifter, even if it can duel with one. If a Impel can fight off a rupture it doesn't mean everyone would fly 100m ship to beat a 3m one.
Anyways, there needs more ships that can do proper combat (not evasion/cloak/stab/etc) without compromising its non-combat function. Look at ships in age of sail, where every transport ship can have a full set of guns to fight, resulting in pirate ships with great firepower, compare that to modern pirates using swiftboats shooting unarmed modern transports and which leads to goodfights. The one saber bubble camps and likes just means more time spend with scouts, cloaked up in safes and other very unexciting things with the occasional lazy person getting caught, resulting in a completely predictable and boring death for the bear involved.
Haulers are perfectly able to pvp and the only change I would want made is a turret or missile slot added to the deep space transports so I can go after harder targets like gank cruisers and buffer fitted BC and BS.
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Eyup Mi'duck
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.15 10:09:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Irulan Corinno
Originally by: Tippia The only ships that are really defenceless are freighters and jump freightsà
Shuttles!
The Echelon, and Zephyr!
Get over it! Learn and move on. |
Daemeon Fyral
Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2011.05.15 10:16:00 -
[29]
There are no defenseless ships, only defenseless pilots.
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Anddeh McNab
Cadre Assault Force
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Posted - 2011.05.15 10:32:00 -
[30]
That's like saying all merchant shipping vessels should be packing a rack of broadsides just in case. There are two sides to the EVE community; those that scream for change and those that scream against it. Often they are the same person. |
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