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Hermann Fegelein Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.02 21:26:00 - [1] How do Tengu's handle in incursions? Are they popular in fleets? I'd assume they do well as Tengus are the number one choice for most PVE but I am wondering. I've never been on an incursion before and would like to get started but stand apart from the standard T1 BC crowd so I can get in better fleets. Also if they are good incursion runners. Would anyone care to post a good incursion fit? Thank you for your help. ------------------------------------------------ Brigen sie mich Fegelein! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN FEGELEIN!
Goose99	Posted - 2011.05.02 21:29:00 - [2] Not that useful. Lacking web bonus, can only be shield tanked. It ranks below webber Loki. If you want to spend some isk, get a Bhaalgorn/Paladin/Vindi/Kronos.
JackStraw56	Posted - 2011.05.02 22:35:00 - [3] Web bonused BSs will get you into fleets pretty fast as was mentioned (Paladin, Kronos, Vindicator, Bhaalgorn). Nightmares and Machariels are usually very welcome also. I usually fly in armor fleets and after the above ships I would take: Absolution, Loki, Legion For shield fleets some popular ships are: Sleipner, Loki, Tengu, Nighthawk HACs are not great in general. Some people bring zealots but I'd much rather have a legion. In general T3 is similar training to a HAC so people should be able to bring a T3 instead. Recons are also not great. Some will take a huginn for the webbing and painting, but I'd much rather have dps ships that can web.
Arazel Chainfire The Awakened Armada Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2011.05.03 00:44:00 - [4] Originally by: Goose99 Not that useful. Lacking web bonus, can only be shield tanked. It ranks below webber Loki. If you want to spend some isk, get a Bhaalgorn/Paladin/Vindi/Kronos. Ahh, its you again with your irrational hatred of shield. Note, painters also help your fleet if you have webbers as well, and they (unlike above web bonused ships) can actually work well in assaults/HQ's. As for a good fit: [Tengu, Incursion] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN Afterburner II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers Does 634 dps with furies out to 113km, with full damage applied to cruisers (without even needing to web/paint), though for assaults/HQ's you'll want to drop the webber and painters for an extender, another invuln and a sensor booster. Web + painters is enough to do full damage to frigs with regular scourge, or you can be lazy and load precision. Pimp at your leisure. -Arazel
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2011.05.03 01:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Goose99 Not that useful. Lacking web bonus, can only be shield tanked. It ranks below webber Loki. If you want to spend some isk, get a Bhaalgorn/Paladin/Vindi/Kronos. I've managed to get my time running NCOs down to an 8 minute between payout average (with the occasional 7 minute tick showing in my wallet) using only my vindi and 2 basilisks in the site. I doubt I could do that with an armor tank. Granted, the number of useful ships that shield tank is less than the number of useful armor tanked ships, but the ones that DO make it to the good list for shields outperform their armor counterparts with little difficulty. As for the OP: What arazel said
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.05.03 02:43:00 - [6] For Vanguards, the Tengu is merely "very good." I would put it in the top 10 ships available generally, and it probably makes the cut to top 5 shield ships (on par with the Sleipnir and Nighthawk). In Assault and HQ sites, however, the Tengu is bar none the best sniping ship available. It can project over 700 DPS to the Antem Neo cruisers without difficulty, and almost all of that damage is reliably applied. No other ship can make that claim. The only real competition for this role is the CNR, and it's definitely second-place. If you have the inclination to train for the Tengu, go for it. You won't be disappointed.
A'Brantox Foson Minmatar	Posted - 2011.05.03 04:51:00 - [7] I dunno about rankings, but like what this thread is turning into, so here's how I like it 1. anchor, rattle, abaddon, paladin or something 2. then loki for grab quickly and pin down with webs at range, also a good person to have calling targets ^^ 3. by this time, the tenus/legions will have a lock and start killing them with fast dps 4. next up the BS are finally targeting things, they die fast by this point and then shine through with their webs and big guns logi all the way as well, dont fly them, so not sure there, butneedless to say they are very good 5. repeat cycle indefinatly This is for vanguards, as their the only ones I know enuf to say Sig failure... @ 76/100, probabilty of success... "DOOMED TO FAILURE"
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.05.03 05:04:00 - [8] As far as logi go, I feel rather strongly that Basilisks outperform their scimitar counterparts. You can permarun 5x T2 remote reps on a Basilisk. Doing so with a Scimitar is (obviously) impossible. Long story short, I'm comfortable running with 2 logis when they're basilisks, but I can't really say the same of Scimitars unless the penalty bar is all the way down. Eight DPS clears a site faster than seven..
Tenzeck	Posted - 2011.05.03 06:06:00 - [9] Originally by: Goose99 Not that useful. Lacking web bonus, can only be shield tanked. It ranks below webber Loki. If you want to spend some isk, get a Bhaalgorn/Paladin/Vindi/Kronos. Web bouses don't matter all that much. Range is hardly an issue since anything you have to shoot will orbit inside faction web range anyway. Having a 90% web is great as it lets you stop an enemy frigate so the battleships can one-volley it with just the single web. Otherwise you'll need to fit 2 60% webs to get them slow enough to one-volley. That's why I'd change the below posted fit to two webs and 1 painter instead of the other way around. Also, there is no reason not to use tech 2 rigs instead of tech 1. Those rigs in tech 2 form are very cheap relative to the tengu itself and they make a much bigger impact than the tech 1 rigs. Other than that its a solid fit. Originally by: Arazel Chainfire As for a good fit: [Tengu, Incursion] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN Afterburner II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers Does 634 dps with furies out to 113km, with full damage applied to cruisers (without even needing to web/paint), though for assaults/HQ's you'll want to drop the webber and painters for an extender, another invuln and a sensor booster. Web + painters is enough to do full damage to frigs with regular scourge, or you can be lazy and load precision. Pimp at your leisure. -Arazel
GyokZoli Caldari Sanctum of Citizens	Posted - 2011.05.03 10:17:00 - [10] Originally by: Arazel Chainfire Originally by: Goose99 Not that useful. Lacking web bonus, can only be shield tanked. It ranks below webber Loki. If you want to spend some isk, get a Bhaalgorn/Paladin/Vindi/Kronos. Ahh, its you again with your irrational hatred of shield. Note, painters also help your fleet if you have webbers as well, and they (unlike above web bonused ships) can actually work well in assaults/HQ's. As for a good fit: [Tengu, Incursion] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN Afterburner II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers Does 634 dps with furies out to 113km, with full damage applied to cruisers (without even needing to web/paint), though for assaults/HQ's you'll want to drop the webber and painters for an extender, another invuln and a sensor booster. Web + painters is enough to do full damage to frigs with regular scourge, or you can be lazy and load precision. Pimp at your leisure. -Arazel A ship for Incursion without any buffer?

Goose99	Posted - 2011.05.03 14:32:00 - [11] Originally by: GyokZoli Originally by: Arazel Chainfire Originally by: Goose99 Not that useful. Lacking web bonus, can only be shield tanked. It ranks below webber Loki. If you want to spend some isk, get a Bhaalgorn/Paladin/Vindi/Kronos. Ahh, its you again with your irrational hatred of shield. Note, painters also help your fleet if you have webbers as well, and they (unlike above web bonused ships) can actually work well in assaults/HQ's. As for a good fit: [Tengu, Incursion] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 10MN Afterburner II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers Does 634 dps with furies out to 113km, with full damage applied to cruisers (without even needing to web/paint), though for assaults/HQ's you'll want to drop the webber and painters for an extender, another invuln and a sensor booster. Web + painters is enough to do full damage to frigs with regular scourge, or you can be lazy and load precision. Pimp at your leisure. -Arazel A ship for Incursion without any buffer? Don't tell him. He's stimulating Eve economy. It's a good thing.
Tenzeck	Posted - 2011.05.03 16:54:00 - [12] It has buffer. Check the subsystems.
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.05.03 17:17:00 - [13] Edited by: Aamrr on 03/05/2011 17:21:52 Originally by: Tenzeck It has buffer. Check the subsystems. As a Basilisk pilot that has run quite a few Incursions, I can confirm that I could keep that Tengu alive through Vanguards in my sleep. I would also like to point out I would not trust other logistics pilots to do the same unless I've personally flown with them in the past, and that the sanity an LSE provides is worth losing a midslot. Something like this. Really, it deserves the expensive modules. Especially the rigs -- they're dirt cheap. A 1% pg implant will let you squeeze on a T2 afterburner, but people yell at me when I use up their precious implant slots. Faction will also work, but honestly isn't necessary. [Tengu, Incursion] Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers 6x Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners 2x Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Damage Control II 3x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System 2x Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II
sabre906	Posted - 2011.05.03 17:48:00 - [14] I fly a max skill tengu for missions, 5% implants and all. Yet for incursions I swap to less than max skill bhaalgorn or vindicator. Having flew all 3, I can tell you the difference is visceral. Once you've flew bhaalgorn/vindi in Incursions, you will never want to go back to tengu.
Hermann Fegelein Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.03 20:21:00 - [15] These are all very nice fits and good advice! Thank you. Also, in incursions are there primary/ secondary targets like there are in PVP? ------------------------------------------------ Brigen sie mich Fegelein! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN FEGELEIN!
Privateeralliance Sucks	Posted - 2011.05.03 20:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Hermann Fegelein These are all very nice fits and good advice! Thank you. Also, in incursions are there primary/ secondary targets like there are in PVP? of cors
Arazel Chainfire The Awakened Armada Infinite Conflux	Posted - 2011.05.03 20:59:00 - [17] Originally by: sabre906 I fly a max skill tengu for missions, 5% implants and all. Yet for incursions I swap to less than max skill bhaalgorn or vindicator. Having flew all 3, I can tell you the difference is visceral. Once you've flew bhaalgorn/vindi in Incursions, you will never want to go back to tengu. While I do agree that the bhaal and vindi both rock for incursions (I now fly 2 vindi's myself), I wouldn't take either into an assault/hq if I could help it, while the tengu performs quite nicely in both. If you were to have 1 ship that you flew, and wanted to be able to do any type of site, I would take the tengu. The tengu is also better if you only have 1 char, and can fly logi's and want to bring an orca to each incursion. Tengu+basi/scimi fit into orca bay with room to spare, which you can't do with a BS. Originally by: GyokZoli A ship for Incursion without any buffer? Above tengu has 31k effective shield hitpoints, 35k if you have a commander with seige warfare lvl 5. That is more effective HP in just the shield than some scimi's that I've flown have total, and with the speed tank that scimi could be kept alive by one other logi repping me in van sites. Now, you do have a larger sig radius, but that is matched by the fact that you can have 2 logi's repping you instead of just 1. -Arazel
Hermann Fegelein Amarr	Posted - 2011.05.03 21:13:00 - [18] Another thing, when you purchase a brand new T3 cruiser, are subsystems sold separately? I can fly a tengu but haven't purchased one yet. ------------------------------------------------ Brigen sie mich Fegelein! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN FEGELEIN!
Tarasina	Posted - 2011.05.03 21:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Hermann Fegelein Another thing, when you purchase a brand new T3 cruiser, are subsystems sold separately? I can fly a tengu but haven't purchased one yet. Yes. Hull is separate, subs are all separate...and you have to have all 5 subs in station with the hull to be able to 'assemble ship'.
Hello Overthere	Posted - 2011.05.04 03:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Hermann Fegelein Another thing, when you purchase a brand new T3 cruiser, are subsystems sold separately? I can fly a tengu but haven't purchased one yet. Tengu works best as a kinetic-weak ratter, 10/10 soloer and PvP gawd. As incursion ships go, it's not the best 1 by a fair few numbers. I suggest bringing a battleship, not enough battleships @ incursions

Aamrr	Posted - 2011.05.04 03:44:00 - [21] I maintain that a flight time and missile velocity rig will make it the sniper available in any assault or HQ class site. Show me another ship that can beat it in damage application at those ranges and I will eat my hat. (CNR gets runner-up)
Tenzeck	Posted - 2011.05.04 06:06:00 - [22] Originally by: Aamrr As a Basilisk pilot that has run quite a few Incursions, I can confirm that I could keep that Tengu alive through Vanguards in my sleep. I would also like to point out I would not trust other logistics pilots to do the same unless I've personally flown with them in the past, and that the sanity an LSE provides is worth losing a midslot. I don't think anyone who is familiar with logistics would worry about his ability to keep that Tengu fit up. You make it seem like it's a big deal, but I am not sure why. :) Adding the LSE would be wise for more difficult sites, but this is plenty of buffer for a VG site, so all that the LSE will do is increase your sig radius and so increase the rate at which you take damage. As a fellow logi pilot, I'd rather not see the LSE or Extender rigs.
Aamrr	Posted - 2011.05.04 07:49:00 - [23] Edited by: Aamrr on 04/05/2011 07:51:59 Normally, I would agree with you. Extenders really don't help logistics ships that much -- they just delay the inevitable. But a Tengu has only 3850 base shield hit points. A large shield extender gives 2625 more. That is a 68% increase. Something THAT significant should be given serious consideration. The extender rigs can and should stay at home, though. Only 15% improvement, blegh. =P


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