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Pachink0
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:05:00 -
[1]
What is the best t2 industrial in terms of getting me through multiple gate camps in low sec to pick up datacores from R&D agents?
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AFK Master
AFK Chartered System Management
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:28:00 -
[2]
BR
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Adrian Idaho
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:29:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Pa*****0 What is the best t2 industrial in terms of getting me through multiple gate camps in low sec to pick up datacores from R&D agents?
The Prowler. Google
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.01 20:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Originally by: Pa*****0 What is the best t2 industrial in terms of getting me through multiple gate camps in low sec to pick up datacores from R&D agents?
The Prowler. Google
Unless you're going into a WH and actually need the extra high, the Prorator is trivially the better Blockade Runner.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2011.05.01 21:48:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Celia Therone on 01/05/2011 21:48:14 Depends on how many datacores you want to move. A covert ops frigate is better than a blockade runner if the cargo will fit.
Other than that the best blockade runner is the one that you have racial industrial v in because that's a pretty long train.
If you have multiple racial industrial v or none then I guess you can pick and choose.
Prorator has the largest cargo (10,922 with expanders + t1 rigs). Prowler is fastest but only has 8734, however it does have an extra high which is better for wormhole work.
10k+ cargo is handy for shipping some larger things like packaged cruisers.
Also it's a long enough train that you might want to think about which freighter/jump freighter it opens up. I never really thought about this and would probably have gone Minmatar for the faster align (I travel less than half full most of the time) if I had.
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RaVeN Revenge
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Posted - 2011.05.01 22:09:00 -
[6]
pretty good advice here in the previous threads.
Look at the other ships you will open up.
Think to the future.
Over 10,000 is a very real issue for a hauler. Its the only downside of the Prowler.
No one has mentioned that the cloakies are the best way to go. The stab bonused ships CAN be tackled, so imo they are second best.
Cloaky/Covert T3 is another option. If you clean out your agents once a month, any T3 will hold all the datacores. And T3 training also opens up some fun gaming options.
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AFK Master
AFK Chartered System Management
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Posted - 2011.05.02 09:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: RaVeN Revenge No one has mentioned that the cloakies are the best way to go.
That's the only thing we have talked about. |
Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.05.02 12:53:00 -
[8]
Deep space transports are also worth thinking about in quieter regions if you have a scout and use the Cloak/MWD trick but still the Blockade runner is by far the better choice for heavy camps but if you can avoid camps altogether and use a cloak & MWD to get past the odd "**** someone just landed/uncloaked at the gate I just jumped through" moments DSTs can carry much more cargo.
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.05.02 13:16:00 -
[9]
Any of the covert ops equipped transports will work. I haven't lost a prorator while resupplying my low/null sec fun since they were given the cov ops cloak. Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.02 19:01:00 -
[10]
prowler. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.02 20:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cipher Jones prowler.
Please justify this opinion. I contend that the Prowler can't carry a packaged cruiser + fit and is therefore a steaming pile of donkey poo. The only possible exception to this would be deep wormhole use where you expect to have to do your own probing. But if you're going down that route, why are you resupplying via BR instead of something with a bit more cargo space... like an Orca?
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Zaxix
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
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Posted - 2011.05.02 20:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Zaxix on 02/05/2011 20:43:36 I've seen other people use the 10k, packaged cruiser thing as a benchmark. I'm not sure why thats a benchmark though. I guess my question would be, why use a BR to move a cruiser? I don't use the MWD/Cloak trick, but if it works, it should work fine for cruisers too. Then someone could fit the cruiser, move it, AND use its cargo bay. It also makes me wonder, if someone is moving their own cruiser in a BR, then they trained up a BR on a non-hauler character, which some would argue is a waste of time/skillpoints. (Though I have done it on my mission runner character.) Finally, if all it can do is move one cruiser and some mods, how much of an advantage is that? EVE eats ships; esp frigates and cruisers.
Of course, once I got a JF, the BRs kind of became useless for most things I do on a regular basis. About the only thing I use them for now is high value, low volume hisec runs and losec npc courier missions. |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.02 21:06:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 02/05/2011 21:07:34
Originally by: Zaxix
I've seen other people use the 10k, packaged cruiser thing as a benchmark. I'm not sure why thats a benchmark though. I guess my question would be, why use a BR to move a cruiser? I don't use the MWD/Cloak trick, but if it works, it should work fine for cruisers too. Then someone could fit the cruiser, move it, AND use its cargo bay. It also makes me wonder, if someone is moving their own cruiser in a BR, then they trained up a BR on a non-hauler character, which some would argue is a waste of time/skillpoints. (Though I have done it on my mission runner character.) Finally, if all it can do is move one cruiser and some mods, how much of an advantage is that? EVE eats ships; esp frigates and cruisers.
Of course, once I got a JF, the BRs kind of became useless for most things I do on a regular basis. About the only thing I use them for now is high value, low volume hisec runs and losec npc courier missions.
Here's a great reason for you: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13157184.
-Liang
Ed: I even named it "Mad Dash For Lowsec". Didn't help. Also, I had my handy dandy hauler alt buy me a NOmen and bring it to my WH. How snazzy! -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Mandos2k
Gallente Divinity Within
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Posted - 2011.05.03 11:51:00 -
[14]
If you're just after your datacores get the Prowler. It's the fastest and aligns the quickest which you will both love. The second high is also nice if you intend to sneak around a lot in w-space.
If you think you will also transports cruisers (pirate alt?) and just want the most m¦ get a Prorator. It can carry a cruiser + fittings + ammo easily.
But imo just get yourself a Viator. *shock!gallente!* It also has more than 10k m¦ but opens up the most awesome T1 industrial ever: The Itty V! That thing alone is worth gallente industrial 5 and can also be fit as a cheap DST alternative.
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Zaxix
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
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Posted - 2011.05.03 14:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Here's a great reason for you: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13157184. -Liang
I don't see a cloak/mwd setup there, just warp core stabs. Its all the rage for non-BR haulers to use the mwd/cloak trick. I had assumed it worked for all ships. Does it not? The real point I guess I'm trying to make is that it seems somewhat arbitrary to use the 'haul a cruiser' metric for evaluating BRs. Meh. Not a huge deal or anything. |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.03 14:52:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 03/05/2011 14:55:21
Originally by: Zaxix
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Here's a great reason for you: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13157184. -Liang
I don't see a cloak/mwd setup there, just warp core stabs. Its all the rage for non-BR haulers to use the mwd/cloak trick. I had assumed it worked for all ships. Does it not? The real point I guess I'm trying to make is that it seems somewhat arbitrary to use the 'haul a cruiser' metric for evaluating BRs. Meh. Not a huge deal or anything.
Please notice that I'm -9.5 or something and Amarr is a 1.0. Even if cloaks weren't disabled when the faction navy is after you, I don't think MWD/Cloak would work on the Amarr undock station as I made a mad dash for low sec.
Ed: Basically, a packaged cruiser means that you can always be resupplied with a reasonable PVP ship (T3, Pirate, Faction, or T2). This is a really really important metric. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.03 15:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Cipher Jones prowler.
Please justify this opinion. I contend that the Prowler can't carry a packaged cruiser + fit and is therefore a steaming pile of donkey poo. The only possible exception to this would be deep wormhole use where you expect to have to do your own probing. But if you're going down that route, why are you resupplying via BR instead of something with a bit more cargo space... like an Orca?
-Liang
OP isn't carrying a cruiser, hes carrying datacores. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Adrian Idaho
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Posted - 2011.05.03 15:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 03/05/2011 14:55:21
Originally by: Zaxix
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Here's a great reason for you: http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13157184. -Liang
I don't see a cloak/mwd setup there, just warp core stabs. Its all the rage for non-BR haulers to use the mwd/cloak trick. I had assumed it worked for all ships. Does it not? The real point I guess I'm trying to make is that it seems somewhat arbitrary to use the 'haul a cruiser' metric for evaluating BRs. Meh. Not a huge deal or anything.
Please notice that I'm -9.5 or something and Amarr is a 1.0. Even if cloaks weren't disabled when the faction navy is after you, I don't think MWD/Cloak would work on the Amarr undock station as I made a mad dash for low sec.
Ed: Basically, a packaged cruiser means that you can always be resupplied with a reasonable PVP ship (T3, Pirate, Faction, or T2). This is a really really important metric.
- Nowhere the OP mentions that he wants to haul cruisers (in fact, he states that he needs it for hauling datacores), so this metric is really really unimportant for him.
- The OP doesn't care whether the cloak/MWD trick works at the Amarr station, nor does he care whether cloaks work when "the faction navy is after" him.
- Filling all lows and all rig slots with cargohold expanders is pretty questionable on a BR. Having to do this is a good indication that you need a different strategy, i.e.: another ship (plus a scout).
The Prowler is the most agile of the BRs, and therefore the one with the highest chance of survival û which is what the OP needs.
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Zaxix
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
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Posted - 2011.05.03 16:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Ed: Basically, a packaged cruiser means that you can always be resupplied with a reasonable PVP ship (T3, Pirate, Faction, or T2). This is a really really important metric.
I hadn't noticed the pirate in hisec thing. Still, it seems like the cloak/mwd thing should work. The BR would have done you no good if the mwd/cloak would have done you no good. The only goal/point of the cloak is to prevent locking. If you can be locked before cloaking, then thats the real problem a pilot would be looking to solve. In that case you're only hope is to be out of point range when you lose gate cloak; or be able to manuever out of point range and then warp; or be able to manuever out of lock range, recloak, and then warp; or manuever back to the gate and jump back through. In the first case, its just dumb luck. In every other case, agility and speed are what you need. Add bubbles to the equation in nosec. So, Prowler.
As for cargo size, I can certainly see the appeal of having enough room to move a cruiser. But the overall logistical logic is kind of puzzling. Example: I go to Jita in my BR, buy a cruiser/mods, load them up and head out. I get to my destination system/station, dock up, assemble and fit the cruiser, jump into the cruiser, head out for some pewpew. Note that I've left my BR behind. Now I go wandering and get killed ten jumps away from my BR. Thats a lot of jumps to get the BR and then get back to a hub. The BR becomes this thing you have to keep up with and the most it can haul is that cruiser and some mods. What about all your other stuff? BRs aren't really hardcore logistical supply ships. If the OPs primary concern were resupply and overall corp/pilot logistics, BRs just aren't the answer. The cruiser metric is certainly a useful metric, but survival trumps m3 for BRs. at least IMO. |
Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.05.03 17:34:00 -
[20]
Sure, the Prowler is the most nimble blockade runner when you're just looking at the base stats...
...Until you remember that it has only two low slots, while the Prorator has four. Two extra nanofibers narrows that gap awfully fast, and being able to rig your blockade runner for cargo and still be "agility fit" is a rather nice luxury.
Simply put, the Prorator's slot configuration gives it far more flexibility in balancing evasiveness and cargo capacity, whether you're hauling repackaged cruisers or just a few datacores.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.03 17:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Cipher Jones prowler.
Please justify this opinion. I contend that the Prowler can't carry a packaged cruiser + fit and is therefore a steaming pile of donkey poo. The only possible exception to this would be deep wormhole use where you expect to have to do your own probing. But if you're going down that route, why are you resupplying via BR instead of something with a bit more cargo space... like an Orca?
-Liang
OP isn't carrying a cruiser, hes carrying datacores.
Originally by: Adrian Idaho
- Nowhere the OP mentions that he wants to haul cruisers (in fact, he states that he needs it for hauling datacores), so this metric is really really unimportant for him.
- The OP doesn't care whether the cloak/MWD trick works at the Amarr station, nor does he care whether cloaks work when "the faction navy is after" him.
- Filling all lows and all rig slots with cargohold expanders is pretty questionable on a BR. Having to do this is a good indication that you need a different strategy, i.e.: another ship (plus a scout).
The Prowler is the most agile of the BRs, and therefore the one with the highest chance of survival û which is what the OP needs.
First, let me address the MWD/Cloak trick: you obviously don't know how to read. The point wasn't that the MWD/cloak trick does or doesn't work for him - the point was that it greatly simplifies the reship/resupply process.
Blockade Runners have this nasty habit of being used for more than their initially planned use. Thus, while today he may want to carry data cores, tomorrow he may want to carry a cruiser + fit or POS/modules+fuel. Really, all arguments relating to what he's asking about RIGHT NOW are stupid because it would be incredibly frustrating to train another Industrial 5 just to have a decent Blockade Runner. Why train for the ****ty one?
As to BR agility: it doesn't matter THAT MUCH. They're almost totally immune to tackle in low sec, and in 0.0 it's more about getting out of the camp (by virtue of getting back to the gate or out of the bubble). Furthermore, the prorator's extra lows really cut down on Prorator's advantage. Simply put: the Prowler may be the most agile but that's not terribly useful if it can't fulfill the basic jobs that a blockade runner needs to fill.
Prorator >> Prowler for all intents and purposes.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2011.05.03 19:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Pa*****0 What is the best t2 industrial in terms of getting me through multiple gate camps in low sec to pick up datacores from R&D agents?
Having given this a bit more thought, I'd like to change my answer.
The best t2 industrial to get you datacores out from low sec is... A t2 industrial that belongs to someone else.
Eve is full or bored players, many with t2 industrials. Fly in once every month (or whatever) and set up a courier contract to high sec (or even Jita).
I wouldn't be surprised if you could do it for under a million isk.
So 2 years of doing this costs you, say, 24 million isk.
2 years of learning to fly a t2 industrial and hauling everything yourself costs 100 million isk+, assuming your ship never dies which is probably optimistic if you've not flown much in low sec before. It also costs a month of training time and more time every time you do the round trip (frigates are faster than t2 industrials).
Of course this may be the wrong answer for you if you really like hauling stuff yourself...
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Craven Aleros
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Posted - 2011.05.03 19:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Blockade Runners have this nasty habit of being used for more than their initially planned use. Thus, while today he may want to carry data cores, tomorrow he may want to carry a cruiser + fit or POS/modules+fuel. Really, all arguments relating to what he's asking about RIGHT NOW are stupid because it would be incredibly frustrating to train another Industrial 5 just to have a decent Blockade Runner. Why train for the ****ty one?
TOMORROW, he may want to use it in WH Space, who knows
_____________ I got beef... |
Adrian Idaho
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Posted - 2011.05.03 20:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Liang Nuren First, let me address the MWD/Cloak trick: you obviously don't know how to read.
Yes, that is the only explanation. "Obviously".
Congratulations, you've successfully trolled me out of this thread. Have fun being right!
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.03 20:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Craven Aleros
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Blockade Runners have this nasty habit of being used for more than their initially planned use. Thus, while today he may want to carry data cores, tomorrow he may want to carry a cruiser + fit or POS/modules+fuel. Really, all arguments relating to what he's asking about RIGHT NOW are stupid because it would be incredibly frustrating to train another Industrial 5 just to have a decent Blockade Runner. Why train for the ****ty one?
TOMORROW, he may want to use it in WH Space, who knows
I already addressed why it's really not a great fit for wormhole space either. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.05.03 20:57:00 -
[26]
Datacores?
Cheetah
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.04 10:02:00 -
[27]
I can tell you for a fact that align time is relevant in lo-sec.
I spent a couple of months on a pirating vacation, and out killboard was littered with victims who assumed that lo-sec + covops cloak = invulnerability.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
AstarothPrime
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Posted - 2011.05.04 12:18:00 -
[28]
Deep space transport doesnt have anything with deep space.
It isnt ment to go into insecure space because you can target it with a titan before it decides to warp. Its only positive sides are largest cargo + not every fool in catalyst trys to suicide you in jita.
Low sec + lagless connection + blocade runner = invulnerable on lowsec gates. OFC you can always be greeted at station
Regards
I.
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Captain Nares
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Posted - 2011.05.04 12:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Unless you're going into a WH and actually need the extra high, the Prorator is trivially the better Blockade Runner.
-Liang
QFT
Prorator, if need 2 highs - Prowler.
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SirusDeVirus
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Posted - 2011.05.05 06:20:00 -
[30]
Nothing funnier than flying through lowsec taunting pirates in a Mastadon with all lows as warp stabs.
I do it fairly often... had 4 guys chasing me for 20 jumps one day.
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