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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.01 14:27:00 -
[1]
Like I said, player pirates have it too easy. Now, on top of them camping jumpgates, if a player comes in and kicks their ass, they just jump. They're withing the jump distance since they camp.
How's about this, if you start combat with a player, you cannot jump for 2 minutes. Call it, realigning your targetting scanners.
That way, if you man enough to camp a startgate and gank people, you're man enough to see your attack all the way through. ------------------------------------------- If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support The sport is war, total war When victory's really a massacre. The final swing is not a drill It's how many people I can kill! |
Freak
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Posted - 2003.07.01 14:55:00 -
[2]
YEAH !!!
Then we will see how many player pirates end up FUBAR !!!
:) FreakOfNature AKA: Freak.
Quote : "If God posted his second coming here i would ban his ass for being off topic !" :)
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Lijah Reaper
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Posted - 2003.07.01 15:03:00 -
[3]
I agree with this one, but 2 minutes may be a bit much. How about 1 minute? 30 seconds?
Also, the explanation of why you can't jump should be tuned considering that you can target anything and warp away elsewhere in the system without waiting.
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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.01 15:11:00 -
[4]
Yeah you're right 2 minutes is too much. 1 minute would suffice. ------------------------------------------- If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support The sport is war, total war When victory's really a massacre. The final swing is not a drill It's how many people I can kill! |
Krogar
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Posted - 2003.07.01 16:15:00 -
[5]
Wow, an anti-pirate topic without a m0o member whining.
On topic: I think this would be a good idea. Maybe explain it away as "Due to combat in the local area, the jumpgates reactor has been shutdown for safety reasons. Powerup will take 1 minute."
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.01 16:28:00 -
[6]
Totally against it for two reasons:
1) It should be in the "EVE Ideas" forum and not here 2) You've got webifiers and scramblers ingame as it is now.
.
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Balsak
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Posted - 2003.07.01 17:00:00 -
[7]
Quote: "1) It should be in the "EVE Ideas" forum and not here 2) You've got webifiers and scramblers in game as it is now."
Point 1. This is not a reason to be against the idea.
Point 2. These devices do not prevent people from jumping through gates.
So now that we have established your reasons for being against this are wrong please come back with something better.
Now yes 2 minutes is far too long, so is 1 minute. Heres a couple of minor suggestions for it. The gate camper who instigates the attack should not be allowed to jump through the gate until he turns off all of his weapon modules and then wait 30 seconds after they shut down. You should be abale to warp out to another planet or wherever. Just not through the gate.
I do want to make sure everyone knows im not against pirates camping gates at all. In fact im glad they are doing these things. The real problem is like Hippey said. If you are gonna be a big man and camp a gate you should be man enough to see your fight through. Nothing worse than a ***** who sits 10k from a gate and as soon as he realizes hes gonna get hurt click on the autopilot button and hes out.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.01 17:17:00 -
[8]
Your logic isnt as adept as your attempts at sarcasm balsak.
Otherwise you might realise that by making combat encounters "do or die" it encourages people to only fight when sure of a win.
Leading back to the same problem of why big nasty pirates pick on little people. .. because its a sure thing.
Its a recipe for bullying - not a cure, and one tried and tested and documented across many MOG games as a failure.
Not too mention you only assume there is no way to stop somebody jumping, now or later.
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 01/07/2003 17:18:58
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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.01 17:48:00 -
[9]
Morkt, you really are an idiot.
I don't know what your problem is, but from now on, stay off my damn threads.
Now, this is an idea. By the reaction of people other then your lame ass, it's a good one.
Now your #2 is BEYOND stupid. What the HELL do webifiers and warp scramblers have to do whe the guy pirate is WITHIN the jump distance and is a right click away from jumping. how EXACTLY do those two modules prevent someone from jumping when he's in distance?? Tell me please, because oh I must have missed something BIG!
And I don't know what the plan is in the future nor do I care. this is a problem "now" and it needs fixing "now". Frankly I don't even see why I should waste a module to prevent someone from jumping through an empire gate.
If you got guns blazing, you should NOT be able to jump instantly escaping all combat.
------------------------------------------- If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support The sport is war, total war When victory's really a massacre. The final swing is not a drill It's how many people I can kill! |
Balsak
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Posted - 2003.07.01 20:48:00 -
[10]
"Do or die" I never said any such nonsense. They can warp out if not scrambeled. All I said was to prevent them from using the gate thats 10,000m and a single click of the autopilot button away.
You sound like you are a pirate and love to use this cheap ass tactic and dont want to see it gotten rid of cause you know you can only kill n00bs 1 on 1. But when someone comes to take you out you just warp away and log off like the pansy pirate you are. If you are not one of these pirate types then I really dont see why you have such an issue with this.
Edited by: Balsak on 01/07/2003 20:48:23
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.07.01 23:06:00 -
[11]
Lets cool it down please, I'm in no mood to see the kind of dross that goes on in the general forum going on in here. It doesn't help each other and it doesn't help the developers.
Redundancy |
Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.02 00:00:00 -
[12]
My apologies. ------------------------------------------- If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support The sport is war, total war When victory's really a massacre. The final swing is not a drill It's how many people I can kill! |
Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.07.02 00:17:00 -
[13]
LOL this is the funiest thing. I agree that jumping to escape the consequences is a bit, actually VERY lame. M0O does it all the time and then brags that they kill everything that moves so easily... *cough*..
But seriously, a good pirate will have safe jump bookmarks in a system and a safe spot as well, and will be alligned with that bookmark in order to warp out faster. Then again, someone with a good warp jammer could fix that but still, that doesn't remove all the "wussyness" of the situation.
And for the ones who don't know what a safe spot is, well I'll just give you 1 hint: you can add a bookmark while you are warping to something...
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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.02 01:59:00 -
[14]
Oh I have no problem with them being able to warp. That's what a scrambler is for. But I can't prevent him gatejumping, and he shouldn't be allowed to keep firing at me until the very last second and then just jump when he gets too low. ------------------------------------------- If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support The sport is war, total war When victory's really a massacre. The final swing is not a drill It's how many people I can kill! |
Balsak
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Posted - 2003.07.02 02:04:00 -
[15]
Having a safe bookmark in system is fine and smart thinking but atleast there is a defense against this eg: the warp scrambler. My big issue is sitting within 10k of the gate pretending you are a hardcore badass then when 2 or more people come or even 1 on 1 and you are getting hurt you click and jump over to the next system. Its a rather lame and pathetic tactic at best.
Entering a jump gate with guns blaring just shouldnt be allowed to happen though.
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Sarkos
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Posted - 2003.07.02 03:07:00 -
[16]
The soluion, as someone pointed out earlier, is a simple one. You can not jump with waepons active. If you are being attacked and trying to jump, most likely you are pumping your cap into an SB anyway.
Sarkos - CEO / Oracle
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.07.02 03:32:00 -
[17]
Nice idea then, you shouldn't be able to jump with weapons active or any offrensive module active. So basically, you'd have to stop your weapons first... wait... don't weapons turn off like, almost instantly anyway? No that won't work... That will fix the issue where they can still shoot while they are jumping, but won't solve the fact that they can still jump!
On the other end, the delay suggested by the starter of this thread is a bit extreme... I'd say you shouldn't be able to jump if your weapons are active AND you should have a small delay of 10-15 seconds before you can actually jump.
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Arondos
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Posted - 2003.07.02 04:42:00 -
[18]
I'd say a 30 second "weapons safe lock down" to prevent damage by accidental discharge of a weapon to a station or gate would be great.
If you have fired in the last 30 seconds you can't can't jump or dock. Also nerfs the insta dock bookmark if you have fired and doesn't handicap a merchant type at all.
Life isn't fair and neither is Eve. Get over it. |
Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.02 05:04:00 -
[19]
Yeah a 30 second timer since your last shot would be good. And as soon as you fire again, the timer restarts. ------------------------------------------- If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support The sport is war, total war When victory's really a massacre. The final swing is not a drill It's how many people I can kill! |
Diamond Smiles
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Posted - 2003.07.02 05:15:00 -
[20]
Most of these ideas would have got me killed in my first ever pvp encounter. I undocked my frigate from a station to find a pirate in a cruiser camped outside. I somewhat naively warped straight to the jumpgate. He followed, and with me slow to react, I was locked and warp scrambled before I could get close to the gate. He opened fire, I locked on and returned fire.
As it happened, I just made it to the gate and jumped before getting killed, but most of the ideas here would have prevented me from jumping because I'd returned fire. Not good (especially as the cruiser was nearly as badly damaged as my poor little Merlin).
However, I agree something needs to be done to stop gate camping. My idea is only to allow ships which have entered jump range (or slightly further) within the last 30 seconds (or some other time) to jump. This might be awkward to implement, but it neatly prevents gate camping, while allowing blockade runners to do so without penalty, even if they fire off a few rounds in passing.
Another option would be to put security locks on jump gates. These would prevent use by anyone with a low sec status. It would take, say, 30 seconds to hack and bypass the lock. Thus any pirate would take 30 seconds to jump while legitimate characters can get through instantly. Won't prevent gate camping by high sec status pirates, but is more 'realistic'. The time could be cut to 5 seconds with the requirement that the hacker not be distracted by combat at the time (firing or under fire).
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Crepiscule
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Posted - 2003.07.02 06:19:00 -
[21]
You're forgetting the poor bastard that just happens to be heading to the gate on a trade route. If he then enters combat while trying to make the gate then he's completely lost his exit.
If you're saying only pirates at the gate can't jump then it seems a bit biased. It needs to be the same for everyone.
I hope this made sense. My last post before bed. lol
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Balsak
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Posted - 2003.07.02 07:30:00 -
[22]
Simple solution is not to open fire or engage in any act of aggression and the gate will let you through. So if you are running the gate theres no reason to turn on your guns.
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Kimi
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Posted - 2003.07.02 07:42:00 -
[23]
Perhaps just allow no weapons firing when you are close enough to jump through the gate?
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Pacala
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Posted - 2003.07.02 09:45:00 -
[24]
I think you guys are ignoring a couple of things.
1. What about bounty hunters? Bounty hunting is a legal form of podding. The only difference between pirate podding and bounty podding is whether it's sanctioned by CONCORD. Since they both involve the same types of actions and most of the same tactics, please remember that this will hurt them as well.
2. What's keeping you from following the guy through the gate? I mean, it's not like the gate requires a secret handshake to activate. Use it, and turn the guy's tactics on him. Camp out a gate or two in the next system. Or have your buddies waiting for him at every gate. Or try to jump right after him and stasis and warp jam him. Or come up with your own tactic.
This situation doesn't require more tweaking from CCP. Quit being lazy, use your brains and find a solution based on tactics and teamwork.
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Rendel
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Posted - 2003.07.02 10:09:00 -
[25]
No - you forget a detail:
If someone camp at a gate he can jump immediately out of you range. You have to approach the gate to follow him. Until you have done the jump the guy is warped way to an unknown location.
I prefer the weapon of while jumping solution, think they is very realistic because there is no way to aim and fire safely to the gate structures while be accelerated to over light speed.
An other solution: let be targeting inhibit by space-time-distortions near a gate.
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Ilia Volyova
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Posted - 2003.07.02 10:15:00 -
[26]
In favor for the 30 sec weapon cooldown for gate jumping, too.
Disabeling the weapons near gates wouldn't be of much use, if the range is too short pirates will simply fly for 2 secs in the jump radius of the gate when they are loosing, if it#s too high pirating wouldn't be possible.
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.02 10:19:00 -
[27]
Jump scramblers will enable you to prevent someone from jumping. And anti-scramblers should enable you to jump anway. ---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Morath
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Posted - 2003.07.02 12:20:00 -
[28]
I have no isues being killed by a pirate that is gate camping, this is just one of many fighting strategies that they could use against us,(Strike and retreat tactic) If your not big enough to play with the big boys than you should stay home. My issue is with the use of exploits, thay have no bearing on my ability to fight or defend myself. These exploits use vulnerabilities in the software not the abilities of a pvp scenario.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.02 13:21:00 -
[29]
Unfortunatley you seem only to be considering this froma piracy perspective, no idea why people are so fixated on that but there you are.
My point remains unchallenged though - by enforcing a time-stamp on any escape all you do is force the attacker to be "More sure" of a win and thereby force bigger-ships to take on smallerships.
You also encourage that mentality in the fledging fighter. That applies to both pirates, bounty hunters and corporate wars.
There is nothing wrong with camping a gate and i dont see why the small trader trying to gate out should be hampered by a time-stamp because he wasted a NPC frigate hovering near it.
As you're trying to "prove" the worth of this i'd like to see some better reason, or even aim, than "stopping wuss pirates" when it in reality affects far more people than that.
You've not made a case for it at all. Calling me names because i find holes in your idea isnt helping... and fwiw, no im not a pirate.
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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.02 14:08:00 -
[30]
1) The timer only applies to attacks against player ships, so NPC pirates are not a problem
2) If you're a trader or someone running from a pirate, WHY ARE YOU SHOOTING AT HIM? You're not going to win, you know you'll **** him off more and you know you'll just waste ammo and tickle his shields. Don't fire, pump the AB and you'll be able to jump. and he won't be able to immediately follow either cause he'll need to "cool down"
3) You can't FOLLOW pirates through a jumpgate. Like someone said, they're already in the jump distance so they'll jump way before you even get there. Then on the other side you HOPE that you appear in the same spot. You don't always. But even there, you can't do anything because another invulnerability timer will have started.
4) No MORKT, it will not make pirates more agreesive since you have NO idea how good the other pilot is. There is no way to tell his RANK or LEVEL compared to you. Now with tracking having more of an effect, pirates in cruisers will even have FRIGATES to fear now, so no, that argument is invalid.
5) Morath, have you ever tried killing a pirate that does this? I'm impossible. I don't have issues with them gate camping, I have issues with them doing it without a care and bounty hunters unable to do ANYTHING about it
6) Pacala, I AM a bounty hunter. This will NOT hurt us, it will ALLOW us finally to be able to collect on the bounties of pirates who just jump when they see someone else is better, and considering I sometimes exit warp 30km from the stargate, it gives the pirate a LOT of freaking time to decide if I'm better.
7) Crepiscule, like I said, if you're a trader on a trade route, what the hell are you doing firing at a pirate in a cruiser? what do you hope to accomplish? Keep the guns cool and keep the AB and SB on autorepeat.
Edited by: Hippey on 02/07/2003 14:10:04 ------------------------------------------- If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support The sport is war, total war When victory's really a massacre. The final swing is not a drill It's how many people I can kill! |
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