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Glitch Online
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor
2
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Posted - 2012.09.01 06:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
There's a good chance some one has already said this, but here it is anyways...
This idea works similar to "Locator Agents" helping you track down other players in eve, These "Cloak Agents" would help you find the co-ordinates to a player who is afk-cloaked or would remove Cloack. Like Locator Agents, the distance they can do these searches will be based on Standing, Unlike Locator Agents, it will use Security Standing.
2 Possible ways...
1. the agent will give you a BM which you can/should be able to put up on you Corp BM. When you warp, it should drop you no more than 1km from your target (effectively decloacking him/her)
2. We know that when you go thru a gate, the gate gives you the ability to stay cloacked for a short period of time. The gate network also knows who is still in system. The "Cloak Agent" can send a command to the gate, which would send out a pulse to de-cloack the player target.
In case #2, this could give the players looking for the Cloaked player time to scan him down, since it takes time to re-cloack. if the Cloaked player is in fact not AFK... he can just warp to another safe spot, if he indeed is afk, he will be found and removed.
I would go a little further and have the re-cloak timer increased when Case #2 is used. In the event some one gets wise and builds a bot. |
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
321
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Posted - 2012.09.01 06:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Whoa, a new afk cloaking solution (at least I've never heard of this variation).
Unfortunately this would just create a tidal wave of 5.0 Sec status alts to spam the locate button and post to corp bookmarks whenever someone wants to take a leak. I cannot support this.
Instead I suggest that if you have an issue with AFK Cloakers that you find a way, using current game mechanics to get rid of them. Although this would require inventiveness and forethought...nevermind, carry on. |
Glitch Online
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor
2
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Posted - 2012.09.12 01:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gerrick Palivorn wrote: Unfortunately this would just create a tidal wave of 5.0 Sec status alts to spam the locate button and post to corp bookmarks whenever someone wants to take a leak. I cannot support this.
You do know that there is a feature built into the game that allows you to log off when you need to leave your computer to take care of RL things don't you?
Also, I did suggest making it much like the Locator Agents, so that it takes time between searches. This would not keep scouts from doing their work. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
880
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Posted - 2012.09.12 02:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
*yawn*
No. NEEEXXXT!!!!! Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
93
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Posted - 2012.09.12 02:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Glitch Online wrote:Gerrick Palivorn wrote: Unfortunately this would just create a tidal wave of 5.0 Sec status alts to spam the locate button and post to corp bookmarks whenever someone wants to take a leak. I cannot support this.
You do know that there is a feature built into the game that allows you to log off when you need to leave your computer to take care of RL things don't you? Also, I did suggest making it much like the Locator Agents, so that it takes time between searches. This would not keep scouts from doing their work. And what of people who have cloaks on and are moving in a direction? By the time the agent gives you the BM that would get you within 1k of the cloaked ship, they are 5k away from that spot https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1909550#post1909550 Drone Improvement Ideas |
Tsukinosuke
Id Est
0
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Posted - 2012.09.12 02:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
afk cloaking is an issue? annoying? against the Rules? imbalance?? sorry but i couldnt get the problem, is it afk-docking next? |
Kitt JT
League of Non-Aligned Worlds Nulli Secunda
101
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Posted - 2012.09.12 02:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm confused.
AFK cloakers pose no threat. They gather no intel. They kill no ships. I can assure you, you have never been killed by an AFK cloaker. He's AFK. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
93
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Posted - 2012.09.12 02:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kitt JT wrote:I'm confused.
AFK cloakers pose no threat. They gather no intel. They kill no ships. I can assure you, you have never been killed by an AFK cloaker. He's AFK. *whispers* but what if he is not afk? Oh wait then he is not afk and there is no problem. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1909550#post1909550 Drone Improvement Ideas |
DankoShepard
CutThroat Mining and Manufacturing S.T.C.
0
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Posted - 2012.09.12 03:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
I would have never imagined a computer left alone while running a game would generate so much terror in so many guys, really, who'd have thought ... wow
I'm tempted to say ... Grow some b.... !!! ... but nevermind
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
16
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Posted - 2012.09.12 04:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
here is a fool proof way to find an AFK cloaky. Jump to the next system. If afk, 100% chance of him not following you.
If he is actually there and does not follow you, gratz, he does not think you are worth his time.
rat away in that damn system. renter of 1 system...rent 2 systems or talk to alliance diplos to be +1 blue ball pet. You obviouslly want to live in 0.0, crap or get off the pot. Beng a pet not all that bad tbh I have been a pet, pet of a pet and real deal aliance corp member. Not much difference really. Crappy ops comes up, you all on it taking a bite of the crap sandwhich lol. |
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Mostro Drachenfels
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.09.12 05:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
DankoShepard wrote:I would have never imagined a computer left alone while running a game would generate so much terror in so many guys, really, who'd have thought ... wow
I'm tempted to say ... Grow some b.... !!! ... but nevermind
In fact the problem is not the fear. You must understand that is impossible to know if there is someone behind the cloaky ship hidden in the system. It would be stupid to take the risk to lose a 1 to 20 billion ship on the idea it is "probalby" an afk cloaky ship. If you cannot understand that, you have a problem it might be stupidity or just the fact that you are the afk cloaker :-).
Obviousliy, AFK cloakers ruin the gameplay. It is simply unfair to have no response against this method. |
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
696
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Posted - 2012.09.12 05:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:so i decided to try this "afk cloaking thing" that people clearly think is an exploit so i figure i'l get rich doing it. I set my alarm to wake up right after downtime and undock from jita in a stealth bomber with nothing but a cloak eagerly awaiting isk and rage mails saying why they think I am cheating or a bad person.
so i warp to a safe and cloak then go back to bed, i woke up with no mails or isk =( so i guess i have to stay there longer I left my computer on till downtime again, didn't touch anything other then chat a bit in corp chat. nothing happened even the next day which i did it again. there seems to be no exploit or issue
therefore, afk cloaking isn't a problem.
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Cardano Firesnake
Babylon Knights Test Alliance Please Ignore
47
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Posted - 2012.09.12 06:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
I thought about a Probe Command Console placed in the Captains Quaters. These probes could find an decloack a ship when it is found at 100%. The probes would be destroyed when they decloak the ship and they would have a timer of 1 hour to be available again. |
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
696
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Posted - 2012.09.12 06:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cardano Firesnake wrote:I thought about a Probe Command Console placed in the Captains Quaters. These probes could find an decloack a ship when it is found at 100%. The probes would be destroyed when they decloak the ship and they would have a timer of 1 hour to be available again. never. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
880
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Posted - 2012.09.12 07:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mostro Drachenfels wrote:You must understand that is impossible to know if there is someone behind the cloaky ship hidden in the system. It would be stupid to take the risk to lose a 1 to 20 billion ship on the idea it is "probalby" an afk cloaky ship. If you cannot understand that, you have a problem it might be stupidity or just the fact that you are the afk cloaker :-). Soooooooooooo... mitigate the risk you take by flying something cheaper and/or flying with people who can provide insta-locking insta-popping cover? Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
93
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Posted - 2012.09.12 07:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mostro Drachenfels wrote:DankoShepard wrote:I would have never imagined a computer left alone while running a game would generate so much terror in so many guys, really, who'd have thought ... wow
I'm tempted to say ... Grow some b.... !!! ... but nevermind
In fact the problem is not the fear. You must understand that is impossible to know if there is someone behind the cloaky ship hidden in the system. It would be stupid to take the risk to lose a 1 to 20 billion ship on the idea it is "probalby" an afk cloaky ship. If you cannot understand that, you have a problem it might be stupidity or just the fact that you are the afk cloaker :-). Obviousliy, AFK cloakers ruin the gameplay. It is simply unfair to have no response against this method. So then if it not "afk" cloakers you fear, the root of what you are asking for is to nerf ALL cloaking so that you can clean out your system and be able to farm risk free. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1909550#post1909550 Drone Improvement Ideas |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1169
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Posted - 2012.09.12 07:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mostro Drachenfels wrote:DankoShepard wrote:I would have never imagined a computer left alone while running a game would generate so much terror in so many guys, really, who'd have thought ... wow
I'm tempted to say ... Grow some b.... !!! ... but nevermind
In fact the problem is not the fear. You must understand that is impossible to know if there is someone behind the cloaky ship hidden in the system. It would be stupid to take the risk to lose a 1 to 20 billion ship on the idea it is "probalby" an afk cloaky ship. If you cannot understand that, you have a problem it might be stupidity or just the fact that you are the afk cloaker :-). Obviousliy, AFK cloakers ruin the gameplay. It is simply unfair to have no response against this method.
Imagine what it would be like if you didn't even know that the cloaker is there
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Astroniomix
Thorn Project Black Thorne Alliance
177
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Posted - 2012.09.12 08:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mostro Drachenfels wrote: 20 billion (isk) ship Stop ratting in supercarriers and they might go away? |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
299
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Posted - 2012.09.12 08:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Once again, a nerf ALL cloaks trying to be passed off as an anti AFK cloaking thread.
Simply remove cloakers from local. And deny that cloaker local.
- Now cloaks are really cloaked.
- Now AFK Cloaking cannot cause any fear.
- Now active cloakers have to work for more intel.
- Now system residents have to pay a little more attention to whats going on around them.
- Now (if done correctly) BOTs can be caught.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
DankoShepard
CutThroat Mining and Manufacturing S.T.C.
0
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Posted - 2012.09.12 11:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mostro Drachenfels wrote:DankoShepard wrote:I would have never imagined a computer left alone while running a game would generate so much terror in so many guys, really, who'd have thought ... wow
I'm tempted to say ... Grow some b.... !!! ... but nevermind
In fact the problem is not the fear. You must understand that is impossible to know if there is someone behind the cloaky ship hidden in the system. It would be stupid to take the risk to lose a 1 to 20 billion ship on the idea it is "probalby" an afk cloaky ship. If you cannot understand that, you have a problem it might be stupidity or just the fact that you are the afk cloaker :-). Obviousliy, AFK cloakers ruin the gameplay. It is simply unfair to have no response against this method.
You can lose a 20 bill ship to someone who is not in it's computer playing because he or she is Away From it's Keyboard - AFK?
Yeah and I'm the stupid one right ... Again I'm tempted to say ... Grow some b.... !!! ... but in this case is not balls what you need is brain. |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
556
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Posted - 2012.09.12 16:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Just admit you want a foolproof way to avoid PvP.
Whether this means they have to convince you to agree to it like a duel, or you are simply able to always get away from them.
Then go find a PvE server on a game that works like that. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Arec Bardwin
736
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Posted - 2012.09.12 16:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Glitch Online wrote:There's a good chance some one has already said this, but here it is anyways... NO SOUP FOR YOU! NEXT!
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Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
31
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Posted - 2012.09.12 16:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Glitch Online wrote:... stuff...
I'm pretty new to the game, as in I've only been playing for a couple of months and even I know how to search for similar topics.
Having read a load of them it seems that there are many different viewpoints although the predominant one seems to be "don't allow cloak detection unless local is removed and even then don't allow cloakers to be scanned down as that would essentially make cloaks worthless".
I might have this wrong but from a scan of the first 10 threads I found this appears to be the consensus of those who speak the most rationality. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
557
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Posted - 2012.09.12 16:58:00 -
[24] - Quote
It simply comes down to this:
It is not that cloaks should not change, but this stalemate effect is countering the free intel being given out by local.
We have right now, a case of: "I know you are there, but I cannot find you" (Absolute presence awareness countered by absolute location concealment)
You cannot change one side without the other, and still have balance.
Too much focus on how to remove AFK cloaking. You are addressing a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself.
If you want to remove AFK cloaking's game impact, remove cloaked ships from displaying in local.
When this is done, it becomes reasonable to consider means to hunt cloaked vessels. NOT before this happens.
So long as people in a system magically know cloaked pilots are present with them, cloaked vessels should not be vulnerable to being hunted effectively.
Cloaking will be earned when cloaking awareness is earned. Balance must be maintained. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
31
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Posted - 2012.09.12 17:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Thanks Nik. Yes, that is a better assessment, actually. I didn't express that very well at all.
I currently don't have much opinion on it but I completely agree with you regarding balance. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
45
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Posted - 2012.09.12 19:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cloaked should mean what it says: cloaked - in all respects including local.
Do that and the "problem" vanishes. |
Tsukinosuke
Id Est
0
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Posted - 2012.09.12 20:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mostro Drachenfels wrote: Obviousliy, AFK cloakers ruin the gameplay. It is simply unfair to have no response against this method.
how do they ruin game exactly? |
Nur AlHuda
Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
7
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Posted - 2012.09.12 23:08:00 -
[28] - Quote
There should be no local at all . Countless topics were made on this over the years and ccp happily ignores the facts but is glad to add some feature who noone wants. Probes should be main tool to find pray and defend yourself not local chat. |
Daichi Yamato
Swamp Bucket Swamp Bucket Empire
8
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Posted - 2012.09.13 00:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
would like to see local taken away from null and then some kind of probe that scans down cloaked ships.
i'd agree that scanning down cloaked peeps that u are only made aware of by local in the first place is gonna cripple the value of cloaks, so if such probes (or other mechanisms) are made that can locate cloaked ships, it would make sense that they could only be deployed in areas with no local.
Hows that? |
Anhenka
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
44
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Posted - 2012.09.13 01:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:would like to see local taken away from null and then some kind of probe that scans down cloaked ships.
i'd agree that scanning down cloaked peeps that u are only made aware of by local in the first place is gonna cripple the value of cloaks, so if such probes (or other mechanisms) are made that can locate cloaked ships, it would make sense that they could only be deployed in areas with no local.
Hows that?
While that may be feasible for the WH space currently without local, it's entirely impossible to implement in K-space due to the system connections and instant travel/hotdrops by cyno field.
If you remove K-space local, then some other kind of intel detection system must be implemented that would serve most of the same purposes as local.
No local + no way to detect cloaked vessels = no PvE in nullsec. Who would take out that tengu of theirs for belt ratting if at any second an unseen in local, unscannable ship could decloak, light cyno, and drop a dozen ships on them at any instant without warning? Nobody. And having the scanning for cloaks functions built into the existing probe launchers/combat probe launchers would be almost as bad.
People who respond "oh keep guys on guys to watch at gates and keep scanning all the time" are frankly idiots. It's unfeasible to keep people non afk watching every entry gate into a system at all times, while constantly scanning for people logging on from within the system in that cloaky cyno recon of theirs. Even one slips through and your in deep trouble, unless you have a guy sitting there mashing and checking the cloak scanner on a dedicated scanning char. Especially not for a mere 50% more or so income per character per hour than highsec. No solo ratters allowed bro, 2 chars with 2 separate monitors minimum to rat for a dead end pocket system, 3 for one with 2 gates, etc.
If I get into a system cloaked without being noticed, I can pinpoint a ratters anomaly and be in warp to it in 30 seconds or so. Those scouts better have eyes glued to the screen every second, and those scanners mashing on the scan button if they don't want to be bent over.
Also, POS jump beacons for capitals. Currently you can jump to one in general safety if you know local is clear. Now every beacon system has to be scanned by a prober before a capital can jump to it? Bad game design there.
TLDR: Removing local without something that provides close to the same intel would effectively kill nullsec PvE, and no nullsec PvE = a whole hell of a lot less people in nullsec, and less income to spend on ships to blow each other up with. Lots fewer ships blowing up in attempts to take/defend now useless nullsec space = less production, less money moving, less pvp, less players.
"EVE online expansion: move to highsec or unsubscribe" |
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