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Johnny Atlas
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Posted - 2005.02.01 23:29:00 -
[1]
A corpy reported that mission bonus times had been reduced. So i started a mish and got this...
68000 credits. thirteen thousand units of small Iridium charges will be awarded to you as a bonus if you complete the mission within 17 minutes. 154 Loyalty Points.
Anyone else got this? Any explanation for it? another silent nerf |
Drogon
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Posted - 2005.02.02 00:03:00 -
[2]
if that's true thats crap ... trying to do a LvL 4 kill mission in the hour timelimit solo is nearly impossible as it is anyways. if they reduced it even more then i'll never get the bonus. Director, Divine Retribution
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Hanse Davion
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Posted - 2005.02.02 05:33:00 -
[3]
I got lvl3 Angel Suprise mission today and only had 16 min window to get the bonus. 2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage. |
Magius2
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Posted - 2005.02.02 05:44:00 -
[4]
Its hard to say, I had the mordus goons mission (level 4) just before, normally if I remember rightly you get 45 minutes to complete it, I was given 1 hour 33 minutes to complete it in this time.
Maybe there basing the times on average time taken to complete the mission? If so it must be for all eve players, I don't think I've ever taken over 40 minutes to complete it.
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Yeux Gris
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Posted - 2005.02.02 06:20:00 -
[5]
Mordus can be done in 45mins..
I have done it many tims under that.
Except the first time when i had wrong ammo :P
Who let the cows out?! mOo. mOo. mOo.. mOo mOo...!
WTB 8x 280mm Scout Howies. Will pay 20% more than Naga's current price |
Zrakor
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Posted - 2005.02.02 10:51:00 -
[6]
The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
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Deovina
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
It will be funny when delivery missions will have a bonus time of 0-1 Minute ;).
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Deovina
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
It will be funny when delivery missions will have a bonus time of 0-1 Minute ;).
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capt
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
Hmmm should prove to be interesting for the hauller missions....... Suppose people have to carry x shuttles to a certain station. Suppose people are not stupid and buy said number of drones at the station where they are supposed to ship the drones to and *bingo* mission succesfull in about 2-3 minutes.
But what if you are supposed to take x shuttles to a station where they don't sell shuttles and the bonus time because of these "insta-mission"tactics is about 5 minutes?
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AmeL1a
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
That doesnt make sense what so ever !!, Wont this give a huge advantage to people doing this missions in group versus solo mission runners ??
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Cirle
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: AmeL1a
Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
That doesnt make sense what so ever !!, Wont this give a huge advantage to people doing this missions in group versus solo mission runners ??
Probably part of the point... :|
Cirle |
Deepeh
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:29:00 -
[12]
Originally by: AmeL1a That doesnt make sense what so ever !!, Wont this give a huge advantage to people doing this missions in group versus solo mission runners ??
That depends on the amount of people actually running the missions solo or in group. Group runners will gain advantage on the time bonus point, but at the same time they have to share all the bounties and loot. Also, only the person that accepted the mission will get paid and thus receive the bonus.
So, advantage: depends on how you look at it, I personally don't think it's a real advantage. Huge advantage? Absolutely not.
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Johnny Atlas
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Posted - 2005.02.02 11:34:00 -
[13]
I dont know how to look at this. I never used to miss bonus's before even when lots of loot dropped as ive always got an alt in a destroyer running around after them.
If its an overall average of that mission then it shouldnt be a problem. That 17 minutes was for the "Duo of Death" (or minor flesh wound as someone else put it). Id probably do that mission in 5 minutes, but it was 1 jump away so add a few minutes there.
I first read it as an average of my own missioning, but that would just be stupid.
I agree with those people's point about the delivery missions where u just buy the product at the target station, that will throw it out big styley. But hopefully the lvl4 "various deliveries" will be a bit more doable now, I missed the 45 minute bonus by 10 minutes first time I did it, only because I forgot to share out the insta-jumps with the other 2 haulers . |
Armi Tage
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Posted - 2005.02.02 13:43:00 -
[14]
nice, my lvl 3 agents gives me missions that are 4-5 jumps away, and that are mostly duo af death and outpost under attack, a mission that takes 5 minutes but i have a travel time of nearly 20 minutes.
meaning i wont ever get the bonus with such missions
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Finraer
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Posted - 2005.02.02 13:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
Surely that's going to penalise people doing haulage missions.
There are always going to be people who have the items needed in station (particularly ammo) and can "complete" the mission without actually doing the work for it.
That's going to drag the average down to the level where the time bonus on haulage missions is going to be down to whether or not you have the goods on hand and not whether you manage to fly over, collect the stranded ammo from the poor pilot who got waylaid and fly back to your ever-so happy agent.
I agree that for kill missions, its a fairly good idea (although BS pilots doing lvl 1 and 2 missions will have the same effect as the above to a lesser extent) but it doesn't make sense for haulage as it currently stands.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2005.02.02 13:57:00 -
[16]
I had sabatoge mission level 3 last night. I think I had around an hour to finish it. 4 BM tto get the viral agents. I finished well within time with a corpmate picking up the cargo. I could of picked up the cargo myself and still finish in time. --------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
4 LOM
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Posted - 2005.02.02 13:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: 4 LOM on 02/02/2005 14:01:02 i have noticed the oposite.... the times apear to be longer for me, i was givin 2 and a half hours to do a single hawling mission and plenty of time to do my kill missions... even had time to grab the loot and get the bonuses (bookmarked and went back with an speed indy), if anything they are to long.
edit: ah missed that comment saying the time is now the average time. ok that sounds good. that means half the people can do it fast enough to get the bonus and that sounds about right.
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AmeL1a
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Posted - 2005.02.02 14:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Armi Tage nice, my lvl 3 agents gives me missions that are 4-5 jumps away, and that are mostly duo af death and outpost under attack, a mission that takes 5 minutes but i have a travel time of nearly 20 minutes.
meaning i wont ever get the bonus with such missions
Small tips to speed mission runs:
When you get a mission offer, go first one jump before the location, then accept the mission in-space ( yes that works ), now you're just 1 jump away.. also when the mission is finished and you dont have a mission deliverable, you can go to any station and select your agent to signal the end of the mission.
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Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2005.02.02 16:02:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 02/02/2005 16:28:33
Originally by: Harisdrop I had sabatoge mission level 3 last night. I think I had around an hour to finish it. 4 BM tto get the viral agents. I finished well within time with a corpmate picking up the cargo. I could of picked up the cargo myself and still finish in time.
Yes, 1 hour was also the time that I usually needed. The idea to use the average time that the players is a good idea. Before the patch you had only 45 mins for this mission. I did it also in 45 mins, but only with a battleship to kill everything fast and a mwd-fregate to loot the cans and bring the vitox to the agent in time. Compared to other mission 45 mins have been too short.
It's a good change although I think that i'll never get a lvl.4 bonus again, even not for easy missions like 'Serpentis Spies'.
/edit ok, the drawback MAY be, that newbies will have problems to get the bonus for lvl. 1 and 2 missions. Every player who usually solos lvl.4 missions is able to complete lvl. 1,2,3 with ease. So if these people change to another corp, they'll do these missions at high speed and lower the time limit for these missions. (/edit Depends on the ratio experienced players aka corp changers to newbies, so perhaps it's no problem at all. )
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2005.02.02 17:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
I may be stating the obvious here, but this basically means that 50% of missions will not be done in the bonus time (i.e half the times a mission is done are above average time). I don't know if this was what you intended, but considering that in my agent running career I have hardly ever failed to get the bonus, this is potentially a very major nerf.
Would not average time +20% or something similar be more appropriate ?
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2005.02.02 17:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
I may be stating the obvious here, but this basically means that 50% of missions will not be done in the bonus time (i.e half the times a mission is done are above average time). I don't know if this was what you intended, but considering that in my agent running career I have hardly ever failed to get the bonus, this is potentially a very major nerf.
Would not average time +20% or something similar be more appropriate ?
There is supposed to be a multiplier involved actually, but it's not working like that right now. However it is not as drastic as a 50% drop off, because the timer is raised considerably by people who slack off (i.e. complete the mission on a very slow pace, or the day after they accept it).
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2005.02.02 18:18:00 -
[22]
Thanks for the response Zrakor. Nice to see you're on the ball as usual
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Lord Anubis
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Posted - 2005.02.02 18:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Zrakor
Originally by: Toran Mehtar
Originally by: Zrakor The bonus time is now the same as the average time it takes players to complete it (or thereabouts anyway). This means that it probably has gone up for some missions, down for others, depending on how fast they are completed normally.
I may be stating the obvious here, but this basically means that 50% of missions will not be done in the bonus time (i.e half the times a mission is done are above average time). I don't know if this was what you intended, but considering that in my agent running career I have hardly ever failed to get the bonus, this is potentially a very major nerf.
Would not average time +20% or something similar be more appropriate ?
There is supposed to be a multiplier involved actually, but it's not working like that right now. However it is not as drastic as a 50% drop off, because the timer is raised considerably by people who slack off (i.e. complete the mission on a very slow pace, or the day after they accept it).
yes but ant this timer put off by the fact some people dont bother with loot and othes do ie taking longer to do the mission.
You cant beat Death But you can make the bastard work hard for it
wtb Jerek Zuomi's Insignia |
Greenwing
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Posted - 2005.02.02 18:50:00 -
[24]
And don't forget the trade-missions, where some people will have the asked goods allready at the station they are in, while others will have to search for the goods.
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pngzor
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:05:00 -
[25]
While it doesn't affect me much, this is another kick in the head to the new players.
The last few months the nubs lost any chance of getting into research with the lab price nerf.
Then they lost the opportunity to get good r&d agents within any reasonable amount of time, with the random corp giving you storyline missions, and hence taking longer to get good standing with the corp you're interested in.
Now they lose 50% of their rewards when doing missions aswell, as they're more likely to use smaller ships. A starting player will be using his breacher/kestrel on l2 and rax/rupture/maller/caracal on l3 missions, and will have no chance of competing with the average times set by "older" agent runners who use battleships or t2 frigs/cruisers to speed things up.
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News
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:08:00 -
[26]
Just hope you get the same mission that I get. Bonus time should be considerable on those. /me points to corp name
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Bleakheart
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Posted - 2005.02.02 19:16:00 -
[27]
Well, I'm happy to do my part with Gurista Extravaganza. Bonus Timer: 45 minutes. Personal time to complet: Hmmm... around 7 hours or so since I had to go back for more torps after every fight with Usurpers. And made dinner. Brushed my teeth. Watched a couple Invader Zim episodes for inspiration to take another stab at it after my next batch of torps completed in the factory...
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Drusilla
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Posted - 2005.02.02 22:54:00 -
[28]
I like the new change in concept but I'd likse to express my concern about the issue: Two possible problems, both of which have been touched on. I'd like to be specific about them and add my voice.
1. mission completion time varies not based just on the particular mission and vigor with which the agent runner pursues that time bonus, but based other items.
A> Ship used. An Iteron 5 will complete a big hauling mission better than an Interon 1. A Raven will complete level 3 combat missions faster than a Maller. Having access to the right ship will make those with the right ships (oldbies) faster.
B> Ability to kludge the mission. Instant completion items like shuttle elivery where you can buy shuttles at the destination are one example. Shortening methods like the "multiple deliveries" one where, if you are smart, you can move only a small portion of the items to end up with all the stations having the right number of item without you needing to actually do all the full deliveries are another. They will shorten mission time over those who either cannot buy the items at the station of completion or who get deliveries of different item names where you cannot kludge it.
C> Distance Variables. There's an agent running station I used to use that contains 6 agents applicable to me (at the time). Two level 1s, 2s, and 3s. The constellation is a dead end with half the systems having no stations. The adjoining constellation likewise has about half the systems with no stations. The routes to take were always predictable and short and allowed you to run 6 missions simultaneously. Agent Runners not in such systems would never keep up with the pace of runners in a system like that.
2. Fast mission completers skew the completion time more than slow misison completers.
Let's say we have two agent runners in play. Runner 1 completes missions faster than agent 2. Maybe he has better ships. Maybe he is in a nice dead-end system. Maybe he has all the right stuff for sale at the destination systems. Maybe he has all three of these advantages.
Let's say it takes him 30 minutes to complete missions, but it takes player 2 60 minutes.
In two hours, player 1 will have completed FOUR missions in 30 minutes each in that time period. Player 2 will have completed only two missions in the same time period.
Therefore, player 1, because he is faster, is dragging the average downwards twice as fast as player 2 is dragging it upwards. You'd have to have two slow players losing out on the time bonus to even it out.
Because of those issues, the game will rapidly become one where only those who have the right ships, market, and location to complete missions super fast will be able to get the time bonus because the slower players will keep the average time just above their super fast rate. It won't be a 50-50 split. It'll be more like 33% making it with 67% failing to make it, or worse depending on just how badly the "instant completions" skew the curve.
Under the prior system, everyone had at least some chance of getting the time bonus. Under the new system, unless there is something happening I don't know about, most people will be utterly unable to get time bonuses once the averages start to balance out.
I don't think that is particularly fair to the agent runners of the game. Just my 2 ISK.
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2005.02.03 12:53:00 -
[29]
What I can't understand, is why does it really matter how long it takes people on-average to get a mission done when deciding how to set the bonuses?
Not everyone is a mission whoring superman. I sometimes have to take phone calls, use the bathroom, eat, smoke... you get the idea.
Does it really matter, in the grand scheme of things? I can understand on missions where NOBODY is getting the bonus and it is changed to be more fair, but why switch the times on the easier missions?
What purpose does it serve?
www.hadean.org
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Commander Flopsy
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Posted - 2005.02.03 13:46:00 -
[30]
I had a kill mission in an adjacent system with a bonus time of just 9 minutes yesterday. Managed it, but only just, and only because I have the knowledge and power to do it that quick. Any newish player getting that kind of bonus time just isn't going to stand a chance of making it. And I'm left wondering just how the average has dropped so low already on a kill mission.
Interestingly enough, I also had a mission with "And I'll throw in a nice bonus if you finish within the hour" in the description, with a bonus time of 35 minutes - they need to fix the descriptions to reflect the new averaging system.
I reckon every time the bonus is useless, I'll wait until the next day on purpose to do it. Fight the system! -- There is no SoonÖ |
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