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Domanation Power
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.03 04:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Domanation Power on 03/03/2011 05:05:16 I use eve central on occassion.
I found an order for Heavy Missile Launcher II in Hek. Minimum 700 pieces. Paying 3 mil per. So i manage to get the launchers there. I goto fill the order. As i fill the order. I notice no isk has been deposited. I check my wallet. They have become a sell order. Even though i have the correct amount. Hmmm. I have been playing for 2 years nearly. So i think i know what i am doing by now in terms of trading.
I recheck the market. They are now wanted same system. Different station. So i hold my breath and try again. Moving them to the other station. Same thing happens. How is this so ? Am i being watched and as soon as i dock at the station and goto sell them ?
I did not screen shot anything as i dont usually think i am being scammed. But the thing is. If this is a scam of some sort. Why ? I can resell the items on market for maybe a little more than i bought them. I am only losing isk because of the cancelled market orders.
What am i doing wrong ? Is this some form of griefing ? I placed this post into Market Discussions because maybe i am just doing it wrong.
Dom.
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Domanation Power
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.03 05:01:00 -
[2]
I have just taken down the sell order again. Now the buy order is back up but for 800 of the items. At some 2.7 mil isk. I have screen shotted the market buy order. But i am loathe to repeat my ordeal because i know it will be cancelled before i try to sell them. I also do not have another 100 in stock.
What am i facing here ? Is someone trying to move large sums of isk to other accounts ? Gold farmers perhaps ?
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Matalino
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Posted - 2011.03.03 05:21:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Matalino on 03/03/2011 05:23:31
Originally by: Domanation Power What am i facing here ?
You are probably facing a market manipulation attempt using margin trading. As a general rule: ignore all buy orders that have a minimum quanity of more than 25% of the total quanity.
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Clown Pron
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Posted - 2011.03.03 05:32:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Domanation Power Gold farmers perhaps ?
I found your problem, you think this is WoW...uninstall Eve Online and then install World of Warcraft, you might have a better luck with whatever your issue is...
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Domanation Power
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.03 05:39:00 -
[5]
Clown - I am sorry my choice of words was not what you had come to expect. I am merely wondering what i am facing. I am not a seasoned trader and have not faced this kind of "market manipulation" before.
Your post offers me nothing in the way of solutions nor anecdotal experience of such events. I believe your form of post belongs in C&P or CAOD..both of which are that way ------>. So kindly GTFO of my thread if you wish to offer no help.
Thankyou kindly,
Dom.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.03.03 05:48:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Rasz Lin on 03/03/2011 05:51:43 Edited by: Rasz Lin on 03/03/2011 05:49:42
Originally by: Domanation Power I have been playing for 2 years nearly. So i think i know what i am doing by now in terms of trading.
...
Gold farmers perhaps ?
ahahhahaha, too bad it only cost you 20 mil in taxes :(
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Domanation Power
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.03 06:09:00 -
[7]
Yes too bad i guess. I figure i can probably make that isk back on the items that i have sitting in my hangar. Although i have noticed that there seem to be quite alot of the Launchers for sale in large numbers in Hek at the moment :S So i think i am not the only one.
Oh well. I have tried the few things that have been posted and to no avail. Something to watch out for next time. I am sure that i might be able to get an alt and swindle the market trader. But my time is far more valuable and isk is to be made elsewhere. The taxes do not bother me. On what i stood to make. It is a small amount. Not that i will make that isk now. Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
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Ami Quintero
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Posted - 2011.03.03 09:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Domanation Power I found an order for Heavy Missile Launcher II in Hek. Minimum 700 pieces. Paying 3 mil per.
That's the Margin Trading scam.
I won't bother explaining it here - have a wee hunt around if you want to see how it works and try it yourself. However, there are two rules you should follow:-
- If it looks too good to be true, it probably is
- Unless you know better, treat any order with a minimum amount as a scam. In particular, under no circumstances go out of your way to acquire goods with the intention of selling them to such an order. (Although if you have the goods already, you can annoy the guy a bit by chasing his order around if you're bored)
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.03 10:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ami Quintero
[*]Unless you know better, treat any order with a minimum amount as a scam.
I would say the only time a minimum amount is worthwhile is if you have a buy order that covers a few systems or regionwide for minerals or ammo.
It's no fun chasing down 2 or 3 units of trit from 15 different stations.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.03.03 11:21:00 -
[10]
Domanation, you have been used as virtual wallet and hauler for someone else to later use your stock at his pleasure. This also includes making you create him block sell orders and whatever he planned.
-------------------
And / Or
someone wanted someone else to buy his overpriced stock by presenting a "too good to be true deal".
You see launchers at 2.5M each (or any other item worth a lot less than the price you see or with crappy mobility, usually it's T2 rigs). You think: "hey I am smart, I will just ferry those over there and sell for 500k profit each.
You get there and ... poof. Now you have some horrendous priced items in your hands.
This pseudo-scam is evolving to more common items and is spreading everywhere. This means that CCP will eventually be forced doing something about it. Maybe. Perhaps. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Gillaboo
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Posted - 2011.03.03 11:47:00 -
[11]
See also one of the "intercalated graphite" items in Jita.
As of last night, Sellers were all in the 19-21m range, various quantities of 20 or 30.
Buyer orders were typically 13-14m, aside from the one Buyer who was willing to pay 50m each, but only for a Quantity of 64, minimum Volume of, you guessed it, 64.
Caveat Emptor. If it's too good to be true, it almost always is.
-------------------------------------------------------- This space For Rent. |
Babyface Eighteen
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Posted - 2011.03.03 11:55:00 -
[12]
Protip:
When selling directly to buy orders, dont use the "advanced" option.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.03 12:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Fulbert on 03/03/2011 12:23:34
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha This pseudo-scam is evolving to more common items and is spreading everywhere. This means that CCP will eventually be forced doing something about it. Maybe. Perhaps.
NTD;WAI (nothing to do; works as intended). The Margin Trading scam is the trading counterpart of can flipping. If you don't understand trade mechanics, markets kill you. That's how it works in real world, EVE shouldn't be non-realistic on that point. ____________________________________ Fulbert Industrialist - Casual Trader EVE Online, the best brower MMO of them all |
Myra2007
Millstone Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.03 12:32:00 -
[14]
Margin trading allows you to place buyorders that you don't have fully covered isk-wise at the time. Later when someone tries to fill that order but you do not have the required isk in your wallet the buyorder will be canceled. That's most likely what happened as I understand it.
Possibly the person doing this also set up some (overpriced) sell orders for the item in hopes of people trying to fill his uncompletable buy order with his own stock.
What you can do to protect yourself is simple: never and I mean never expect a buyorder to be a safe bet. Someone else could come by and just fill it before you have gathered the items yourself. OR it could be a margin trading enabled buyorder that may not be completable at all. With that in mind you simply must make sure that you can sell the items you purchase without a loss elsewhere should you not be able to sell to the buyorder for one of the above reasons. Know what items are worth and how much they move and you'll be fine.
--
Originally by: Professor Slocombe
I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.03.03 23:28:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 03/03/2011 23:28:38
Originally by: Rasz Lin Edited by: Rasz Lin on 03/03/2011 05:51:43 Edited by: Rasz Lin on 03/03/2011 05:49:42
Originally by: Domanation Power I have been playing for 2 years nearly. So i think i know what i am doing by now in terms of trading.
...
Gold farmers perhaps ?
ahahhahaha, too bad it only cost you 20 mil in taxes :(
*shrug* it happens. I've lost about 1 bil in broker fees in the last 2 months on trading positions that didn't work out. Hey. It's a learning experience.
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Zelda Wei
Caldari New Horizon Trade Exchange
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Posted - 2011.03.03 23:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ami Quintero
Originally by: Domanation Power I found an order for Heavy Missile Launcher II in Hek. Minimum 700 pieces. Paying 3 mil per.
That's the Margin Trading scam.
It is not a scam it is market PvP.
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Phosphofuctokinase 1
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Posted - 2011.03.04 01:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Fulbert Edited by: Fulbert on 03/03/2011 12:23:34
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha This pseudo-scam is evolving to more common items and is spreading everywhere. This means that CCP will eventually be forced doing something about it. Maybe. Perhaps.
NTD;WAI (nothing to do; works as intended). The Margin Trading scam is the trading counterpart of can flipping. If you don't understand trade mechanics, markets kill you. That's how it works in real world, EVE shouldn't be non-realistic on that point.
In the real world, how many times do you think you get to default on margin orders before whoever is allowing you to trade on margin revokes that privilege?
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bobakhan
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Posted - 2011.03.04 01:40:00 -
[18]
If you want to see a master at the margin trading scam examine 5ky contracts completed in game. Several billion scammed already this month. Always makes me chuckle when passing thru jita.
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Salome Musashi
Caldari Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.03.04 08:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: bobakhan If you want to see a master at the margin trading scam examine 5ky contracts completed in game. Several billion scammed already this month. Always makes me chuckle when passing thru jita.
Bah, I used to pull several billion in a weekend with the margin scam, and the dude who taught me made even more. The people using contracts are doing it wrong.
This issue sounds like somebody bungled an attempt at margin scamming or price manipulation.
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Stephen Mctowelieee
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Posted - 2011.03.04 17:17:00 -
[20]
What it sounds like is the person who put up the buy orders, also had sell orders in the same system, probably at the same station, using an alt, for the necessary amount to fill the buy order, at an inflated price. Not anticipating someone to already have enough HMLs and trekking them over, he was waiting for someone to buy the launchers off of him, and attempt to sell them back to him. But he does not have enough isk in the buy order account to complete the buying of the HMLs, which is where the Margin Trading skill comes in. So some newb is stuck with 300 HMLs, bought at an inflated price, and must take a hit to rid himself of them, or he can turn around and attempt the same scam of course.
Watch out for this sort of thing, and don't get greedy. Do not fill large buy orders by buying the goods in the same system or even the same station.
No you're a towel! |
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.04 17:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Phosphofuctokinase 1
In the real world, how many times do you think you get to default on margin orders before whoever is allowing you to trade on margin revokes that privilege?
I never stated that Margin Trading is a real-life mechanic. I said that in real life, when you risk money in a market with rules that you don't understand, you get problems. ____________________________________ Fulbert Industrialist - Casual Trader EVE Online, the best browser MMO of them all |
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