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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.27 05:16:00 -
[1]
Hello All,
When PI launched I heard lots of click fest complaints, and I noticed that the already antisocial eve group stopped talking as they were all doing PI ... Incursion launches and the community rejoices the click fest is over!
So given I have limited eve time, is PI fun? I live in a WH, I scan and run sites, and I enjoy the idea of non-combat gain, so what is the consensus? I don't mind learning a new system, but I am not in desperate need of isk, I am looking for fun.
Best, AG
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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Herring
Caldari Fork In Your Face LTD
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Posted - 2011.02.27 08:33:00 -
[2]
No.
Far far too much clicking and not really all that profitable for the amount of time spent babysitting operations. Isk/hour and enjoyment overall would be better spent doing almost anything else imho. I trained it up but regret doing so.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.02.27 09:25:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Herring No.
Far far too much clicking and not really all that profitable for the amount of time spent babysitting operations. Isk/hour and enjoyment overall would be better spent doing almost anything else imho. I trained it up but regret doing so.
Babysitting operations? You can easily make 600 mil a month in lowsec even, with less than 10 minutes of work everyday, along with a weekly shipping of products which only takes as long as it takes you to go between your customs offices to a buffer station. PI is fantastic profit in relation to time invested, even though I fully agree the new system was a serious nerf.
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Flinchey
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.27 10:44:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Flinchey on 27/02/2011 10:45:30 hell.no
just started playing again since a hiatus
managed to work my way to about 3bn of PI materials, but some of them are still in P3 form, so making them into P4's.... i never want to touch this again
going to get my faction ship, fit it out decently, and do missions...
ED: i have no idea on the isk/hour overall, but 24 hours of P4 productions works out to about 60m isk profit over simply selling the P3's....
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Dittohead2
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Posted - 2011.02.27 11:05:00 -
[5]
Fun? No
Profitable? Yes very much so. Especially in a Wormhole
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William Norton
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Posted - 2011.02.27 11:36:00 -
[6]
No it isn't. You can make a nice profit, but managing colonies and ferrying goods between planets is like a second job. Hell, it's more fun taking a ****...
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Polemarchus
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Posted - 2011.02.27 13:14:00 -
[7]
What makes PI fun is the planning. I enjoy figuring out the most efficient ways to setup a factory system on one planet, or a production chain across many planets. Or calculating the goods needed to meet your production goals, then seeing if the system you've designed will meet quota over the long haul.
If you've ever enjoyed writing a business plan, or figuring out how to effectively price products or services, you would enjoy PI.
The trap in PI is to get too caught up in harvester efficiency. The heat maps are often misleading, and you can end up spending hours trying to find the sweet spots or moving extractor complexes too often. For me the challenge is to sit back and figure out how little time I can put in and still keep my P4 factories working 24/7.
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Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.02.27 14:44:00 -
[8]
I quite enjoy it, I just wish there was a better spread of demand for PI goods in general, and perhaps the possibility to move your entire setup without painstakingly rebuilding it when depletion forces you to go to the other side of the planet.
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.27 15:27:00 -
[9]
hmm ... it appears that there are no neutral feelings on PI, only Love/Hate. Thanks for the feedback all.
I am curious why it was mentioned that Wormhole space is more profitable, is that because more players on a planet reduce its output?
Best, AG
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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Scarry Peak
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Posted - 2011.02.27 15:28:00 -
[10]
Well I've taken advantage of HAG4 (waves at Helicity ) to really suss the changes out and I have to agree - the fun was learning about where to place and work out how many and how to replicate closely my previous set up so as to be able to limit my need to import and export all over the damn place. I've taken some time to bounce up my Command Centre skills to upgrade and that helped a lot.
Now it's just a matter of playing with the times to extract to see what works best with RL etc.
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Flinchey
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.27 15:58:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Flinchey on 27/02/2011 15:58:53
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel hmm ... it appears that there are no neutral feelings on PI, only Love/Hate. Thanks for the feedback all.
I am curious why it was mentioned that Wormhole space is more profitable, is that because more players on a planet reduce its output?
Best, AG
love the [relatively] easy money hate ... the rest.
boring, mind numbing, clickfest
heck, at the moment, processing P4 materials, i have to log in every 6 hours or so, to continue production.... ??????
isk/hour was AMAZING on release, went from 100m to 3bn in 1-2 weeks now, processing isn't worth it for the most part, you can make probably better isk/hour getting to [at most] p2's
in fact, going from many P2's to P3's, you lose isk on transport fee's, import/export taxes, market taxes, and are actually better off simply selling the P2's it only becomes worthwhile if they then become P4's. and it's baaarely worth it at that.
ED: one caveat, anyone new to the game and want to make the most amount of isk possible out of combat? PI just PI, no two ways about it you could easily create a toon, bum around a day or two building a capital, then fund PLEX's after your first month via PI while doing whatever else you want.
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Michael O'Reilly
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Posted - 2011.02.27 16:01:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Michael O''Reilly on 27/02/2011 16:02:54
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
I am curious why it was mentioned that Wormhole space is more profitable, is that because more players on a planet reduce its output? AG
Wormholes have the same extraction rates as Null sec (very similar). Much higher than High Sec.
On 4 characters all with the exact same set-up I could make about 1.3 Bil per month having the factory planets running 24 hrs.
Due to laziness and real life in reality I'm making between 800-900 a month on the 4 chars.
PS. I only make one kind of P2
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Care Bear King
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Posted - 2011.02.27 17:27:00 -
[13]
At it's best, PI is a poor source of low-maintenance ISK that is somewhat less annoying than logging in every three weeks to fuel your high sec POS. At it's worst, PI is a daily motivator very similar to pre-queue skill training, which encourages people to schedule logging into EvE for overhead activities that aren't directly related to shooting things (be it PvE or PvP).
So, is it fun... no. Is it worthwhile... possibly.
To be fun PI needs to be autonomous in isolation. That is, one capsuleer's colony on one planet (without other capsuleer colonies present) would require virtually no upkeep for the colony to grow. Ideally you would set some initial characteristics for the colony, such as the type of government, and various civil priorities (environment, education, health care, infrastructure, etc.). You, the capsuleer, would then receive a monthly 'budgetary request' from your colony. Depending on the level of development, the lawlessness of the area, how much competition there is for resources from neighboring colonies, etc. the 'budgetary request' may be large or non-existant. Your ability to meet that request would then affect how much your colony thrived or contracted.
Maintenance would be much more dynamic when your colony grows into other colonies. They would interact based upon the predispositions set earlier (aggressive, cooperative, etc.). You'd occasionally receive weekly notices in addition to the monthly bill warning of a run on certain resources due to conflicts or, cooperatively, 'trade opportunities'. In high sec these might be non-combat resources like Janitors, Quafe, etc. In low sec they might be vaguely more war-related, such as planetary vehicles or tobacco. In 0.0 and WH space they'd probably be very much war-related; militants, for example. The role Dust would play in such a system is pretty straight forward.
If you're listening CCP - PI needs to be more Civilization, less Fantastic Contraption. This will be particularly true once Dust becomes a component. If you think we're going to spend time doing something that is innately 'not fun' to generate content for 'the other game', you need to reevaluate your assumptions.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.27 18:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Care Bear King If you're listening CCP - PI needs to be more Civilization, less Fantastic Contraption. This will be particularly true once Dust becomes a component. If you think we're going to spend time doing something that is innately 'not fun' to generate content for 'the other game', you need to reevaluate your assumptions.
That was exactly what devs promised us (fanfest 2009). PI wasn't suppose to be a silly clickfest, it was supposed to be a long-term strategy game. -------------------------------- Fulbert. Miner - Industrialist |
Oshi Ashimi
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Posted - 2011.02.27 19:48:00 -
[15]
Could someone answer a quick question for one uneducated in PI?
I know that as minerals or whatever are extrracted, they are depleted from the site of the extractor. Does that mean that once the minerals are gone from a planet, they are gone for good? Or are they "respawned" somehow so that there is always some level of resourses to extract?
Thanks!
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Dazram
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Posted - 2011.02.27 20:17:00 -
[16]
Of coarse not. But it pays the monthly bill.
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Oshi Ashimi
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Posted - 2011.02.27 20:59:00 -
[17]
So, once the resources are extracted from a planet that were placed there when PI started, that planet is forever dead?
What's the point of someone getting into it then? Surely by now all of the hi-sec and most, if not all, of the low-sec planets have been stripped bare.
Can someone just starting out find anything without going into a wormhole or null-sec?
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.27 21:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Oshi Ashimi So, once the resources are extracted from a planet that were placed there when PI started, that planet is forever dead?
No. The resources regenerate over time. They will never been depleted.
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Oshi Ashimi
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Posted - 2011.02.28 00:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Oshi Ashimi So, once the resources are extracted from a planet that were placed there when PI started, that planet is forever dead?
No. The resources regenerate over time. They will never been depleted.
Ah, okay, thanks. That makes much more sense.
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Flinchey
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.02.28 03:23:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Michael O'Reilly Edited by: Michael O''Reilly on 27/02/2011 16:02:54
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
I am curious why it was mentioned that Wormhole space is more profitable, is that because more players on a planet reduce its output? AG
Wormholes have the same extraction rates as Null sec (very similar). Much higher than High Sec.
On 4 characters all with the exact same set-up I could make about 1.3 Bil per month having the factory planets running 24 hrs.
Due to laziness and real life in reality I'm making between 800-900 a month on the 4 chars.
PS. I only make one kind of P2
???
800-900 PER MONTH on FOUR toons? you should reevaluate what you're doing there, i can do that in a week on one toon...
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Montgomery Crabapple
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Posted - 2011.02.28 08:29:00 -
[21]
How?
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.28 08:48:00 -
[22]
Fun...sometimes. Wasting too much time? No.
I'm doing it as a side income and thus means I mean restart the cycle every 1-2 day (lazy) and I've built the planets so that they all produce (only have three) P2 onsite. Basically minimal hauling, minimal effort and when it starts to fill up (takes ages) I haul it out. Profit? Never calculated it, but as I'm not spending a lot of isk on it, I'd say the profit it ok. Also I have my r&d agents close so when I make those runs for datacores I can scoop up the P2's also. Simple.
Of course I would make loads more if I just "mined" the biggest resources and turned those to P1 and haul them to some factory planet or just to the market, but it would mean moar work. I treat PI as passive income in sorts.
All and all I enjoy the work with PI. It has certain elements that I like and some I don't. The thing is that you can pretty much choose how to do it. If you want to make profit, then you can use all your time and make profit. Or you can just take it slowly with minimal effort and do some research into it. Basically meaning you can choose how to use your time and effort.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
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Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2011.02.28 09:38:00 -
[23]
I think PI has potential that we can have fun with it. The GUI is very limited and the used grafic is not what i expect from eve, we can only see some pins on the surface and spinning Buildings, which simply look bad and are not useful at all.
CCP fixed the annoying carpal tunnel syndrom clickfest and also add depletion to planets and other changes. But the windows for doing PI are quite small, the information you need for doing PI correctly is not very intuitiv to read, so here i think lots of possibilitys to make that better.
But its a start. I am looking forward for more progression.
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tpwh21
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Posted - 2011.02.28 11:21:00 -
[24]
i don't think PI is much fun, but it is curiously addictive. It has also pulled me into a whole load of areas i have never bothered with before, invention, industry, running my own corp.... settting up my own pos. obsessively tracking the prices of things on the market... Also some of the tradeoffs you can make between time/isk generated are quite interesting. I would really like there to be more depth to the actual PI gameplay - but that is not to be. About the most satisfying thing in the improved PI is getting a planet running in perfect equilibrium. But it is about 10x harder to run a very low maintenance setup than it was before the patch. also the market for p1/p2 has become much more volatile - so there is now a real incentive to switch extraction around. Its getting richer, better and more interesting - but one has to consider the whole system - rather than the crappy planetary interface.
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.28 11:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: tpwh21
I would really like there to be more depth to the actual PI gameplay - but that is not to be.
It's coming. Dust will "directly" affect PI, at least from what I understand.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
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Nypheas Azurai
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Posted - 2011.02.28 11:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer It's coming. Dust will "directly" affect PI, at least from what I understand.
Except console players aren't smart enough to have an effect.
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Ikserak tai
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Posted - 2011.02.28 17:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: William Norton No it isn't. You can make a nice profit, but managing colonies and ferrying goods between planets is like a second job. Hell, it's more fun taking a ****...
^^This. The most tedious and boring thing I've ever done in Eve. I quit before Incursions ended the clickfest, but even then the constant logging in, and having to travel to each planet to empty storage locations to the Customs Stations, drudgingly chains you to being in that area of operations ad infinitum. Then hauling this stuff to a downward spiraling market and getting less and less return for your effort is the antithesis of fun.
The initial training of skills and setup and challenge to see whether or not you can pull this off effectively was interesting, but the hours needed to be spent hauling stuff like an over the road space trucker negated any monetary upside.
If you spent this much effort trading and hauling stuff from Jita to trade hubs you'd certainly be a lot richer and enjoy a much more dynamic experience, as the market changes constantly.
YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED. |
Tset Tsun
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Posted - 2011.02.28 18:06:00 -
[28]
No fun at all. It used to be fairly simple to setup a production line and with a steady flow of materials calculate what you need for a final product. Depletion is so terrible now you can't setup a standard production line.
I now run just enough to keep my POS up. There are too many other avenues for making isk with a 'reasonable' amount of time spent in game other than PI anymore.
I can't imagine how much worse it will be if they ever do get 'Dust' implemented." It's not worth the time to me now.
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Rorriana
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Posted - 2011.02.28 21:33:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel Hello All,
When PI launched I heard lots of click fest complaints, and I noticed that the already antisocial eve group stopped talking as they were all doing PI ... Incursion launches and the community rejoices the click fest is over!
So given I have limited eve time, is PI fun? I live in a WH, I scan and run sites, and I enjoy the idea of non-combat gain, so what is the consensus? I don't mind learning a new system, but I am not in desperate need of isk, I am looking for fun.
Best, AG
I enjoy it, its a fairly straightforward way to make a few ISK and requires me to do little work.
People hate it because they set alarms to run 6-hour cycles and they have a heart attack if their resources bounce around/deplete/whatever. It is only fun if you take a relaxed view of it, build up your production line, and let it do its own thing. I have to move stuff around ever few days, but it doesn't really take any time.
Occasionally a spot goes really south and I have to move a colony, but a lot of the time I shrug my shoulders and just let it go on at its now slightly lessened pace.... and all is good :P
I still make ISK, I enjoy it, and no emoraging required.
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AB99
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Posted - 2011.03.01 01:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Flinchey
Originally by: Michael O'Reilly Edited by: Michael O''Reilly on 27/02/2011 16:02:54
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
I am curious why it was mentioned that Wormhole space is more profitable, is that because more players on a planet reduce its output? AG
Wormholes have the same extraction rates as Null sec (very similar). Much higher than High Sec.
On 4 characters all with the exact same set-up I could make about 1.3 Bil per month having the factory planets running 24 hrs.
Due to laziness and real life in reality I'm making between 800-900 a month on the 4 chars.
PS. I only make one kind of P2
???
800-900 PER MONTH on FOUR toons? you should reevaluate what you're doing there, i can do that in a week on one toon...
Wow someone likes to exaggerate! You making the equivalent of ~150-200 P4 products a day on 6 planets? - I don't think so.
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