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Elrin Taron
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Posted - 2011.02.21 09:09:00 -
[1]
Hey all, no this isn't a moaning post honestly!
I saw on the kill board site for this years Hulkageddon a total of ships killed and the total value in isk, looking at some of the kills I could see that say on an Orca kill 17 battleships were involved (like 1.5 bil before modules (ish) not sure on the value of an Orca but does it compare?).
Im curious if the organizer may consider posting the costs of the kills. In theory any/most kills in high sec will cost all involved parties their ships due to concord intervention, of course there will be some corp wars involved but im guessing that since its not suicide ganking it might not be in the spirit of the event anyway?
Purely curious if the amounts are less or greater than the damage caused. for the record, im not a miner and not involved in the event myself other than flying to some belts/gates to see some ganking when im bored of watching drones 5 training up .
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.02.21 09:15:00 -
[2]
I would imagine that any losses caused by excessive amounts of battleships used (you don't need 17 Battleships to take down an Orca; my corp did it with 6) would be mitigated by the many hundreds of kills on 150mill-ish Hulks by 10 mills worth of suicide Catalysts.
It would be nice to see the figures though, yeah.
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Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.21 09:55:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Brusanan on 21/02/2011 10:00:40 Only 17 people got on that Orca mail, but we actually had something like 26 people in fleet for it, most of whom were fully T2 fit. No, the value of the Orca came nowhere near the value of the fleet we ganked it with. We were aiming for the first Orca kill, and we wanted as many people as possible there to make sure there was no chance of failure. We one-volleyed the target Orca so fast that many of our fleet failed to even get on the mail, and most managed to get on it just barely. It was glorious, and worth every isk it cost us.
We aren't too concerned about how much this event costs us. We are all in it for the grief, and fun.
But for most ganks it costs far less to kill the target than the value of the gank ships. The Catalyst fit we use generally costs less than a mill, and you really only need at most 4 - 5 of them to gank most Hulks. We also use cheap fit Thoraxes and Brutixes, both of which are much cheaper than a Hulk or Mack, and usually still cheaper than a Covetor. Even with stupidly expensive gank fleets every now and then, in the end the isk damage we deal will be much more than the isk we spent. ______
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Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.02.21 10:05:00 -
[4]
I'd love to... but the board currently does not support that. Because it's not linked to any particular corporation everything posted to it (loss or kill) is just "a kill" to the board.
Thus in order to keep score properly, we periodically purge all mails that are not in the target ships category. And keeping score is, in the end, why we have the board.
Perhaps masterbrain zedrik can invent something to address these issues for HG5.
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Elrin Taron
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Posted - 2011.02.21 10:21:00 -
[5]
Thanks Helicity, would be an interesting stat to see. Especially with the ships in the above link being used
Im guessing theres a catagory for biggest loss killing a retriever, Im also guessing you won
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Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.02.21 10:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Elrin Taron Thanks Helicity, would be an interesting stat to see. Especially with the ships in the above link being used
Im guessing theres a catagory for biggest loss killing a retriever, Im also guessing you won
I haven't undocked in three days lol. I just dont get to have time to participate myself (and that would only get the paranoiacs claiming there is foul play anyways).
The last time I ganked a Hulk myself was in Hulkageddon 2 :>
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Khory Thunderstar
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Posted - 2011.02.21 13:54:00 -
[7]
Heh, there should be a prize for the most expensive ship lost in a kill, as well as the most ridiculousy ISK Damage / ISK lost in a kill.
Saw a Armageddon yesterday hitting a Iteron... should be close to qualify.
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PewPewLaser
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Posted - 2011.02.21 18:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Khory Thunderstar Heh, there should be a prize for the most expensive ship lost in a kill, as well as the most ridiculousy ISK Damage / ISK lost in a kill.
Saw a Armageddon yesterday hitting a Iteron... should be close to qualify.
pshhh, armageddons cost like ~25-30mil after insurance.
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Trooph
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Posted - 2011.02.21 18:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Brusanan
We aren't too concerned about how much this event costs us. We are all in it for the grief, and fun.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't this the definition of griefing provided and considered bannable by the Eula? Attacking specific players who aren't war targets, who have done nothing to you, when the kill has no benefit to you whatsoever? I mean your own words imply that this is griefing plain and simple and last I checked, even under the generally lax rules of play CCP have provided, still is against at the very least, the spirit of the EULA.
I certainly hope CCP understands how unfriendly this event is to newer players and the result this may have in their future plans to attract/retain new customers and will react accordingly at some point. My understanding was this was originally an event aimed at removing bots from the population but I don't think anybody who has read the posts by the participants and patron of this years version would be silly enough to believe it is still about that.
You all have said it numerous times yourselves. It's for the "lols" and the "tears." I urge CCP to have another look at this event and the spirit behind it and what it is doing to the image of their product. The participants have implicated themselves and admitted it is primarily a way to grief miners/industrialists (remember these are the most viable methods of generating isk for new players since they can't run lvl 4 missions etc.) Is this what you guys really want? An event that specifically targets lesser experienced players with the intent of removing from them the only means of income they have and to "extract their tears?"
I also urge any person affected by this to file petitions. Though it probably will net you nothing, it will, at the very least, draw attention to an event that has drastically changed in tone since it's original inception. Hundreds of people filing petitions should make it a bit more difficult to ignore the negative ramifications this griefing event has on their game. It's not as if we don't have a legitimate griefing complaint, the participants themselves have admitted it is "all about the tears and the griefing."
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.02.21 18:26:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 21/02/2011 18:27:22 Its propaganda lol they only post THEIR kills so they can boast how much they killed and how uber they are. Let alone they probably lose eght to ten times the number of ships they kill, but they can boast about those kills and it makes their life complete lol
Originally by: Trooph
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't this the definition of griefing provided and considered bannable by the Eula? Attacking specific players who aren't war targets, who have done nothing to you, when the kill has no benefit to you whatsoever? I mean your own words imply that this is griefing plain and simple and last I checked, even under the generally lax rules of play CCP have provided, still is against at the very least, the spirit of the EULA.
They dont care aqnd CCP spends more time participating than caring
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Exordium8
Minmatar Not a Shell Corp
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Posted - 2011.02.21 18:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Brusanan Edited by: Brusanan on 21/02/2011 10:00:40 Only 17 people got on that Orca mail, but we actually had something like 26 people in fleet for it, most of whom were fully T2 fit. No, the value of the Orca came nowhere near the value of the fleet we ganked it with. We were aiming for the first Orca kill, and we wanted as many people as possible there to make sure there was no chance of failure. We one-volleyed the target Orca so fast that many of our fleet failed to even get on the mail, and most managed to get on it just barely. It was glorious, and worth every isk it cost us.
We aren't too concerned about how much this event costs us. We are all in it for the grief, and fun.
But for most ganks it costs far less to kill the target than the value of the gank ships. The Catalyst fit we use generally costs less than a mill, and you really only need at most 4 - 5 of them to gank most Hulks. We also use cheap fit Thoraxes and Brutixes, both of which are much cheaper than a Hulk or Mack, and usually still cheaper than a Covetor. Even with stupidly expensive gank fleets every now and then, in the end the isk damage we deal will be much more than the isk we spent.
Suicide ganking in a proteus. I mean, those are expensive and you lose skill points when you lose one. I'm just so conflicted over that gank. Im not sure whether that guy should be made fun of or given a medal.
Probably a medal.
--------------------------------- Pillage, then burn. Everything is air-droppable at least once. There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.
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Khory Thunderstar
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Posted - 2011.02.21 19:14:00 -
[12]
Originally by: PewPewLaser
Originally by: Khory Thunderstar Heh, there should be a prize for the most expensive ship lost in a kill, as well as the most ridiculousy ISK Damage / ISK lost in a kill.
Saw a Armageddon yesterday hitting a Iteron... should be close to qualify.
pshhh, armageddons cost like ~25-30mil after insurance.
And a Iteron III is what? 1 mil fitted?
Still a 25/1 disvantage.
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Exordium8
Minmatar Not a Shell Corp
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Posted - 2011.02.21 19:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Khory Thunderstar
Originally by: PewPewLaser
Originally by: Khory Thunderstar Heh, there should be a prize for the most expensive ship lost in a kill, as well as the most ridiculousy ISK Damage / ISK lost in a kill.
Saw a Armageddon yesterday hitting a Iteron... should be close to qualify.
pshhh, armageddons cost like ~25-30mil after insurance.
And a Iteron III is what? 1 mil fitted?
Still a 25/1 disvantage.
Depends what's in the cargo. --------------------------------- Pillage, then burn. Everything is air-droppable at least once. There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.
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Griznatch
Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.02.21 21:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trooph
Originally by: Brusanan
We aren't too concerned about how much this event costs us. We are all in it for the grief, and fun.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't this the definition of griefing provided and considered bannable by the Eula? Attacking specific players who aren't war targets, who have done nothing to you, when the kill has no benefit to you whatsoever? I mean your own words imply that this is griefing plain and simple and last I checked, even under the generally lax rules of play CCP have provided, still is against at the very least, the spirit of the EULA.
I certainly hope CCP understands how unfriendly this event is to newer players and the result this may have in their future plans to attract/retain new customers and will react accordingly at some point. My understanding was this was originally an event aimed at removing bots from the population but I don't think anybody who has read the posts by the participants and patron of this years version would be silly enough to believe it is still about that.
You all have said it numerous times yourselves. It's for the "lols" and the "tears." I urge CCP to have another look at this event and the spirit behind it and what it is doing to the image of their product. The participants have implicated themselves and admitted it is primarily a way to grief miners/industrialists (remember these are the most viable methods of generating isk for new players since they can't run lvl 4 missions etc.) Is this what you guys really want? An event that specifically targets lesser experienced players with the intent of removing from them the only means of income they have and to "extract their tears?"
I also urge any person affected by this to file petitions. Though it probably will net you nothing, it will, at the very least, draw attention to an event that has drastically changed in tone since it's original inception. Hundreds of people filing petitions should make it a bit more difficult to ignore the negative ramifications this griefing event has on their game. It's not as if we don't have a legitimate griefing complaint, the participants themselves have admitted it is "all about the tears and the griefing."
lol, you're adorable
Quote: whats a signature?
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Loraine Gess
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Posted - 2011.02.21 23:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Trooph
Originally by: Brusanan
We aren't too concerned about how much this event costs us. We are all in it for the grief, and fun.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't this the definition of griefing provided and considered bannable by the Eula? Attacking specific players who aren't war targets, who have done nothing to you, when the kill has no benefit to you whatsoever? I mean your own words imply that this is griefing plain and simple and last I checked, even under the generally lax rules of play CCP have provided, still is against at the very least, the spirit of the EULA.
I certainly hope CCP understands how unfriendly this event is to newer players and the result this may have in their future plans to attract/retain new customers and will react accordingly at some point. My understanding was this was originally an event aimed at removing bots from the population but I don't think anybody who has read the posts by the participants and patron of this years version would be silly enough to believe it is still about that.
You all have said it numerous times yourselves. It's for the "lols" and the "tears." I urge CCP to have another look at this event and the spirit behind it and what it is doing to the image of their product. The participants have implicated themselves and admitted it is primarily a way to grief miners/industrialists (remember these are the most viable methods of generating isk for new players since they can't run lvl 4 missions etc.) Is this what you guys really want? An event that specifically targets lesser experienced players with the intent of removing from them the only means of income they have and to "extract their tears?"
I also urge any person affected by this to file petitions. Though it probably will net you nothing, it will, at the very least, draw attention to an event that has drastically changed in tone since it's original inception. Hundreds of people filing petitions should make it a bit more difficult to ignore the negative ramifications this griefing event has on their game. It's not as if we don't have a legitimate griefing complaint, the participants themselves have admitted it is "all about the tears and the griefing."
Reputation is a benefit.
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Corina's Bodyguard
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Posted - 2011.02.22 00:18:00 -
[16]
Festival of Idiots is griefing of a group, which is not against the EULA. Only griefing of individuals is a matter for CCP to take punitive action.
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Kengutsi Akira
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Posted - 2011.02.22 00:20:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Festival of Idiots is griefing of a group, which is not against the EULA. Only griefing of individuals is a matter for CCP to take punitive action.
so in CCP's perspective a group is not made of individuals. Interesting ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass" |
Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.02.22 00:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Festival of Idiots is griefing of a group, which is not against the EULA. Only griefing of individuals is a matter for CCP to take punitive action.
so in CCP's perspective a group is not made of individuals. Interesting
Fact of the matter is, CCP decides, not you, do would you like a handkerchief?
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.22 00:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Festival of Idiots is griefing of a group, which is not against the EULA. Only griefing of individuals is a matter for CCP to take punitive action.
so in CCP's perspective a group is not made of individuals. Interesting
no, the point is you can't identify one person and set out to make that persons gaming experience miserable as a goal. |
Kengutsi Akira
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Posted - 2011.02.22 00:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Kengutsi Akira on 22/02/2011 00:53:54
Originally by: Helicity Boson
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Festival of Idiots is griefing of a group, which is not against the EULA. Only griefing of individuals is a matter for CCP to take punitive action.
so in CCP's perspective a group is not made of individuals. Interesting
Fact of the matter is, CCP decides, not you, do would you like a handkerchief?
love the crying about me "crying" when Im only pointing out the stupidity of the answer... lol I havent even lost a ship to hulkageddon so I dont know what Id even be "crying" about lol Plus, I like the hulkageddon thing for boosting ship prices, though it doesnt affect mineral prices as much cause the bots dont care when they lose a ship and the real miners store up before it hits lol
Hey wait, why arent you having fun with the rest of em instead of trolling the forums? ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass" |
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Zedrik Cayne
Gallente Starscream Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.22 01:03:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard Festival of Idiots is griefing of a group, which is not against the EULA. Only griefing of individuals is a matter for CCP to take punitive action.
so in CCP's perspective a group is not made of individuals. Interesting
Sort of. From my rather..extensive experience making a certain few people's lives miserable....
As long as you have a thin veil of reason in game...and it can be a perfectly ridiculous one. And in-game any single individual or group are pretty well fair game.
Mind you, I never went too overboard. --
Originally by: "RedSplat" You're the internet equivalent of a Deepfried Mars bar filled with stupid.
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Kengutsi Akira
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Posted - 2011.02.22 03:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Zedrik Cayne
Mind you, I never went too overboard.
I think the only time Ive heard of anything that could be called overboard was Goons swarming and mass suicide bombing Jita 4-4 for ao long the GMs intervened and made/asked/threatened them to leave ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass" |
JustSharkbait
Gallente Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.22 04:05:00 -
[23]
I feel honored that people are taking this so seriously. It's just a game. Have fun. So what that it took TWO attempts with TWO Proteus. The FIRST time i utterly failed (NOOB!!!) and that Proteus was faction fit. So, i tried again on another target and brought navy cruiser's as back up. I MUST NOT FAIL!!!! LOL.
But seriously. People that "grief" are obviously not afraid of loosing ships. It is just a game, and if CCP did not like griefing they would just make it so that no one could shoot anyone in high sec at all. SO they set up game parameters and let the players do the rest. I love PVP and suicide ganking. I think more people appreciate it than people think. Like all of EVE would leave if their were no griefing/pirating/ganking/PVP.
I don't care how much it costs. We loose ships all the time...that is why it is called suicide ganking. We are not avoiding game mechanics, we are abiding by them, and using them to have fun. We let CONCORD kill us, so it does not matter what we attack, if it is in high-sec we still loose our ships. (and then get caught on a gate on the way back and get podded...then remember that you forgot to update your clone and NOW you lost Gallente Cruiser LVL 5)
So crap happens. I just laugh about it and go blow something else up, and then everyone laughs at my misforture (Because i am a noob).
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garus banta
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Posted - 2011.02.22 05:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jovan Geldon I would imagine that any losses caused by excessive amounts of battleships used (you don't need 17 Battleships to take down an Orca; my corp did it with 6) would be mitigated by the many hundreds of kills on 150mill-ish Hulks by 10 mills worth of suicide Catalysts.
It would be nice to see the figures though, yeah.
Your corp is run by failures. 6 battleships cost way more then 1 orca. But hey thanks for the loot dumbass!
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Charlotte Yakamoto
Amarr Lead Farmers
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Posted - 2011.02.22 07:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: garus banta
Originally by: Jovan Geldon I would imagine that any losses caused by excessive amounts of battleships used (you don't need 17 Battleships to take down an Orca; my corp did it with 6) would be mitigated by the many hundreds of kills on 150mill-ish Hulks by 10 mills worth of suicide Catalysts.
It would be nice to see the figures though, yeah.
Your corp is run by failures. 6 battleships cost way more then 1 orca. But hey thanks for the loot dumbass!
Umadbro?
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.02.22 11:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Exordium8
Originally by: Khory Thunderstar
Originally by: PewPewLaser
Originally by: Khory Thunderstar Heh, there should be a prize for the most expensive ship lost in a kill, as well as the most ridiculousy ISK Damage / ISK lost in a kill.
Saw a Armageddon yesterday hitting a Iteron... should be close to qualify.
pshhh, armageddons cost like ~25-30mil after insurance.
And a Iteron III is what? 1 mil fitted?
Still a 25/1 disvantage.
Depends what's in the cargo.
Depends what drops. -
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Kikkoman6
Amarr NON PROPERO
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Posted - 2011.02.22 18:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: JustSharkbait The FIRST time i utterly failed (NOOB!!!) and that Proteus was faction fit. So, i tried again on another target and brought navy cruiser's as back up. I MUST NOT FAIL!!!! LOL.
Someone give this man a medal.
Also, Like a Boss. ----------- |
Unt'ad
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Posted - 2011.02.22 22:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: JustSharkbait (and then get caught on a gate on the way back and get podded...then remember that you forgot to update your clone and NOW you lost Gallente Cruiser LVL 5) ... (Because i am a noob).
Confirming that the above was not hypothetical. After suiciding 2 Protuses, he let himself get podded without updating his clone and he can no longer fly a Protus.
General Tso's are pro.
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Brusanan
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.22 22:07:00 -
[29]
Originally by: JustSharkbait (and then get caught on a gate on the way back and get podded...then remember that you forgot to update your clone and NOW you lost Gallente Cruiser LVL 5) ... (Because i am a noob).
Confirming that the above was not hypothetical. After suiciding 2 Protuses, he let himself get podded without updating his clone and he can no longer fly a Protus.
General Tso's are pro. ______
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