Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kuai Chan
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 16:01:00 -
[1]
I'm trying to maximise the yield in my extraction cycles (they are 1 day). I find that sometimes I have to move my extraction heads to the "warmer" spots. Now when I do it, I sometimes see that a poorer spot in the make yields more resource (either per hour or total program, as read in the lower right corner of the program screen), although the extraction head rate decreases. The reverse also happens: the extraction head value goes up, and resource per hour goes down. Seems contradictory. So far I've decided to just pay attention to the per hour/total program output, but still bothers me that the good spot in the planet might no be the best, and that extraction head values don't make sense. Anyone have seen this?
|
Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 16:13:00 -
[2]
Millionth topic on this and yes, there are 'hotspots' which give higher returns than going to what the heatmap shows you. I stick with what the total amount on the right bottom side says, the heatmap doesn't seem to be entirely accurate and I've got 4/4 in Planetology and Adv. Planetology. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
|
Kuai Chan
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 16:20:00 -
[3]
And this hidden hotspots are what the devblog refer to as "nuggets"? I thought they would shown when you scan.
I also have Planetology IV (V in couple of days) and Adv. Planetology IV.
|
Verkala Ven
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 16:31:00 -
[4]
There really is no way to tell by looking at the map what the actual output will be. Theoretically your estimate takes into account recovery and hotspot growth over time, and that's where you'll see spikes later in a program. But the actual information presented just isn't meaningful.
Plenty of ignorant people have theories on what it means, but nobody actually knows and all the wonderful ideas are counteracted by the reality of the interface. Simple truth is it sucks. All you can do is get your Planetology skills up, and then move your heads around semi-randomly while you watch for the rates to go up.
|
Fritz Ionar
Minmatar LifeLine Solutions
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 16:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Verkala Ven Plenty of ignorant people have theories on what it means, but nobody actually knows and all the wonderful ideas are counteracted by the reality of the interface.
Let me just add my ignorant theory :) The heat map seems to show the currently avalible resources, and doesn't take into acount the rate of resource regeneration. So if a spot with a high regeneration has been depleated it might show colder the a slower regenerating spot that no one has extracted from in a while. Depending on the length of your program it might be better to put the extractor head on the high resource spot or the high regeneration spot.
Generaly I would expect the heat map to match "best spots to use" better and better the shorter programs you use.
It would be nice if you could switch the heat mapp between "current resources" and "Regeneration rate".
Oh, and nuggets as understand the devblog about them ar spots that gets a one time injection of resources but no regeneration. So once it is extracted it is gone. New ones can pop up though.
|
Matalino
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 18:19:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kuai Chan I also have Planetology IV (V in couple of days) and Adv. Planetology IV.
That could explain it. There is still noticable difference between the heat map and actual resource locations until you get both skills to level 5. The heat map with skills at level 4 will let you get close enough, but if you want to perfect the placement of your extractor heads you will need those skills at level 5.
|
Durnin Stormbrow
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 18:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Fritz Ionar
Originally by: Verkala Ven Plenty of ignorant people have theories on what it means, but nobody actually knows and all the wonderful ideas are counteracted by the reality of the interface.
Let me just add my ignorant theory :) The heat map seems to show the currently avalible resources, and doesn't take into acount the rate of resource regeneration. So if a spot with a high regeneration has been depleated it might show colder the a slower regenerating spot that no one has extracted from in a while. Depending on the length of your program it might be better to put the extractor head on the high resource spot or the high regeneration spot.
My ignorant theory goes a step beyond yoursą
[ignorant theory] I'm beginning to think that the difference between what the heat map shows as the "hot spot" and what the extraction yield shows as "you're gonna get" involves how the resources will regenerate during the extraction program. If the regeneration points wander, leaving trails of higher concentration behind them, then during a long extraction program what is a hot spot now may not be best point of extraction over the course of the program. [/ignorant theory]
I'm going to do some testing on this to see how the discrepancy between the heat map and the highest extraction points change with long vs very short programs. If wandering regeneration points is a factor, then the effect should be negligible on a 1h program, but be very noticeable on a 2 day program. If this is the case, on a 14 day program the heat map may well be close to useless.
|
Verkala Ven
|
Posted - 2011.02.14 19:00:00 -
[8]
That's the most popular ignorant theory. Unfortunately, it's ignorant. And wrong.
If the heat map shows "now" and the graph shows peaks due to regeneration that you can't see, then what you should see when you move an extractor head to a "better" hot spot is an increase in the early extraction., with a possible loss of later spikes.
Guess what? That's not always what happens. I've commonly taken an extractor head from an 80-value green area to a 200+ value white spot, only to watch my first couple of extraction cycles DROP by 10% or more.
|
Carabidae
|
Posted - 2011.02.15 00:28:00 -
[9]
One theory that's not ignorant, if you only have planetology 3 then don't even bother scanning the planet. Slap your heads down randomly. You'll extract more than if you try to scan and place heads in 'hotspots'. P4 makes quite a difference although there can still be quite large difference between estimated extraction and actual extraction rates.
|
Durnin Stormbrow
|
Posted - 2011.02.15 16:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow [ignorant theory] I'm beginning to think that the difference between what the heat map shows as the "hot spot" and what the extraction yield shows as "you're gonna get" involves how the resources will regenerate during the extraction program. If the regeneration points wander, leaving trails of higher concentration behind them, then during a long extraction program what is a hot spot now may not be best point of extraction over the course of the program. [/ignorant theory]
Originally by: Verkala Ven That's the most popular ignorant theory. Unfortunately, it's ignorant. And wrong.
Confirmed.
While planning one hour extraction programs, the estimated total yield of the program did not follow the heat map or extractor head values. Skills should not impact this, since both the heat map and the estimated yield are supposedly based on your skills; while the discrepancy between estimated and actual yield supposedly reflects your skills.
I would love to hear from CCP that this is either a known issue that will be addressed in the future, or a blog telling us that we're doing it wrong with a video showing us how to correctly read the interface while laying out an ECU. Optimal layouts should be on us to figure out, but CCP should explain to us how to correctly read the data, or let us know the data is wrong.
|
|
BolsterBomb
|
Posted - 2011.02.15 22:18:00 -
[11]
OMG Im getting incredibly frusterated with PI. I have been doing it since the begining (before this patch mind you) and last night I wanted to junk punch CCP.
I do not have the planetolgy skills above the basic req skill, however I have NEVER had a problem even after the patch of getting a hot spot. I go for the biggest yield and I dont care if it knocks it down 100-150k...however last night the projected yield before installation was 900k+ on a 24hr cycle and once I submitted it I come to find out its only 400k.
Rage.....yes rage....thats over a 50% descrpency!!!!
So for all those going to say...well your skills....no I havent had this much of a descrepency ever in any of the PI I have been extracting. I was extracting on 4 moons and building on a 5th moon and was able to keep the hooppers full, now Im struggiling to keep 3/4 of a days worth full......anyone else see problems with this specific interface?
|
Lord Viziam
|
Posted - 2011.02.16 06:48:00 -
[12]
Originally by: BolsterBomb OMG Im getting incredibly frusterated with PI. I have been doing it since the begining (before this patch mind you) and last night I wanted to junk punch CCP.
I do not have the planetolgy skills above the basic req skill, however I have NEVER had a problem even after the patch of getting a hot spot. I go for the biggest yield and I dont care if it knocks it down 100-150k...however last night the projected yield before installation was 900k+ on a 24hr cycle and once I submitted it I come to find out its only 400k.
Rage.....yes rage....thats over a 50% descrpency!!!!
So for all those going to say...well your skills....no I havent had this much of a descrepency ever in any of the PI I have been extracting. I was extracting on 4 moons and building on a 5th moon and was able to keep the hooppers full, now Im struggiling to keep 3/4 of a days worth full......anyone else see problems with this specific interface?
Yah. The old way is gone. What you did before has no bearing in the new system and is larely irrelevant. Adapt or die. Start training your sklls..
|
Kuai Chan
|
Posted - 2011.02.16 15:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Kuai Chan I also have Planetology IV (V in couple of days) and Adv. Planetology IV.
That could explain it. There is still noticable difference between the heat map and actual resource locations until you get both skills to level 5. The heat map with skills at level 4 will let you get close enough, but if you want to perfect the placement of your extractor heads you will need those skills at level 5.
This seems to be the opposite to how skills work in Eve. With all skills you can get by at lvl 4, diminishing returns and all that (unless of course you need the skill at lvl 5 to unlock more skills). So I'm not quite sure this is how it works. Fortunately I can test this today, as I got Planetology V in one character and IV in the other, so I'll take a look at the heat map and extraction rates.
|
Durnin Stormbrow
|
Posted - 2011.02.16 16:57:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 16/02/2011 16:58:19 Regarding the planetology skills...
My understanding (quite possibly false) was that improved skills are intended to allow you to more accurately estimate the quality of a resource deposit and the yield of a program, and that the discrepancy between the estimated yield while planning a program and the actual yield of the submitted program was reflective of those skills.
If that is the intent, then there should be little or no discrepancy between the heat map and the estimated yield while planning a short extraction program; I refer to a short program to minimize the effects of resource regeneration over the life of the program. The problem we have is that there is both a discrepancy between the heat map & the estimated yield and between the estimated and actual yields. The description of the skills leaves a lot to the imagination, so we really don't know what they're intended to do beyond "make it better".
We also have the issue of the as yet unknown (or not well known) effects of resource regeneration. Is regeneration done via a static regeneration layer or are there roving hot spots leaving resources behind as they move?
As a test, I think I'm going try to tackle the issue of resource regeneration by rebuilding one of my planets on Sisi to aggressively extract it down to nothing, and then observe how the resources regenerate over time while there is no extraction taking place. By observing the heat map and planned extraction programs as the resources regenerate, it should become obvious how resources regenerate over time.
Since these tests could take weeks, for once I'll be hoping they don't do a new mirror...
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |