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Llyandrian
Amarr Livestock Science Exchange
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Posted - 2011.02.12 23:06:00 -
[1]
The prices of PI goods are falling hard, esp those needed to make POS fuels, stinks of a stealth buff for POS owning large alliances at the expense of PI industry.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.12 23:12:00 -
[2]
1. When prices get too low people will stop doing PI. 2. Prices will rise. 3. People will start doing PI again. 4. Repeat.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2011.02.12 23:36:00 -
[3]
Probably the cause is people saw P1 as the profitable thing to make and started all doing that, causing a glut in the market, causing prices to drop. This will, in turn, cause people to either stop PI altogether or switch to a different product. Either way, the supply of P1 will dwindle and prices will rise again. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.02.13 00:28:00 -
[4]
Yes, making PI easier and removing the RSI-inducing clickfest is obviously a stealth-buff to large alliances. Because small corporations don't do invention, reaction or research, do they?
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Xina Tutor
Amarr Hot Chicks
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Posted - 2011.02.13 02:49:00 -
[5]
POS fuels are a bit high. Maybe they will be a bit lower. meh. It's a painful way to make isk anyway...
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k Rose
BOOM BOOM POW
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Posted - 2011.02.13 21:58:00 -
[6]
EVE market is sad (teeter totter) or a balancing act. So your manufacturing will change all the time do to lack of building, when unbalanced on one side.
Example
Today Drakes
Tomorrow Hurricanes
BTW Planet Interaction! Just a joke. I spend 35Million to setup, To make 35million profit back in three months. What a joke To enable image please go into your setting and check the box show images! |
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.13 22:53:00 -
[7]
Originally by: k Rose BTW Planet Interaction! Just a joke. I spend 35Million to setup, To make 35million profit back in three months. What a joke
I'm averaging about 3.5m/day per planet doing extraction in w-space, so 17.5m/character (5 planets). It more than pays for the POS fuel cost.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.02.13 23:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: k Rose BTW Planet Interaction! Just a joke. I spend 35Million to setup, To make 35million profit back in three months. What a joke
1/10
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.02.13 23:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: k Rose BTW Planet Interaction! Just a joke. I spend 35Million to setup, To make 35million profit back in three months. What a joke
I've quit doing PI. Since the new PI was introduced i've spent 40 mil every few days trying to get 2 P2 per planet. It can't be done. They screwed up high sec planets so bad you can barely feed 1 advanced factory and often not even that. Yes i do P1 and ship it to a factory. It's not worth the time making 40 jumps to collect what 3 basic industrys per planet can make a day, if you can even get that much. The time you spend shifting heads around, killing ECU's, abandoning planets and searching for ones that give you more than 4k per hour is simply not worth it.
PI has gone low sec only and screw everyone else.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.02.13 23:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus
Originally by: k Rose BTW Planet Interaction! Just a joke. I spend 35Million to setup, To make 35million profit back in three months. What a joke
I've quit doing PI. Since the new PI was introduced i've spent 40 mil every few days trying to get 2 P2 per planet. It can't be done. They screwed up high sec planets so bad you can barely feed 1 advanced factory and often not even that. Yes i do P1 and ship it to a factory. It's not worth the time making 40 jumps to collect what 3 basic industrys per planet can make a day, if you can even get that much. The time you spend shifting heads around, killing ECU's, abandoning planets and searching for ones that give you more than 4k per hour is simply not worth it.
PI has gone low sec only and screw everyone else.
If you are in a location so contested (IE. many people live there all doing PI), then the cake has to be shared. And PI is about more then just mining to make sell-able products, in high sec most ISK is to be made in manufacturing from P2 materials.
P2, Simply because that way, you can maximize the amount of output on a planet.
And by the looks of the market, there is plenty of P2 materials to go around. In short, you are doing it wrong!
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.02.14 00:06:00 -
[11]
I didnt say anything about a lack of P2 or profit from P2 manufacture. I said the time spent doing PI in high sec is better spent elsewhere.
Perhaps you should learn to read before spouting off.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.02.14 00:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus Edited by: Sokrates Zosimus on 14/02/2011 00:08:08 I didnt say anything about a lack of P2 or profit from P2 manufacture. I said the time spent doing PI in high sec is better spent elsewhere because extraction is so bad.
Perhaps you should learn to read before spouting off.
It depends on how good you are in other areas then PI. Missioning is by far more lucrative if you are good at it and equipped right. But that doesn't exclude PI at the same time.
You have to compare PI more to other areas of industry, like building and selling ships. And then I think PI fares of quite well, given the amount of skill points you have to put into it compared to industry. And extraction from high sec planets has nearly nothing to do with it, which was the core of your argument.
If you want to focus on the extraction part of the argument, compare it to mining and then see how well PI fares. It is far less time consuming, then you make it out to be.
Then again, who says PI needs to be on par with other ways of getting you income? Given it is so low skill point based, it stand to reason it won't be leading the ISK/hour race.
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Inquisitor Pain
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Posted - 2011.02.14 00:54:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Inquisitor Pain on 14/02/2011 00:55:01
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus Edited by: Sokrates Zosimus on 14/02/2011 00:08:08 I didnt say anything about a lack of P2 or profit from P2 manufacture. I said the time spent doing PI in high sec is better spent elsewhere because extraction is so bad.
Perhaps you should learn to read before spouting off.
I seldom post on these forums due to the terribad posting skills of most people and the rudeness of some, but you sir should THINK before spouting off, you ARE doing it wrong and should NOT be extracting in highsec, but rather be purchaseing p1 and p2 to make p3 and if the prices ever stabilize at profitable lvls make p4. lowsec extraction rates are what? double highsec? hell i dunno i do mine in null and make p2 for transport to empire to sell, but you always have the option to move your operation to lowsec and do ectraction if you want, or find a wh or hell, the russiens are always looking for renters PI is a nice secondary or tertieary income with little training or time invested, if what YOU are doing isn't profitable then your doing it wrong, also btw this is now a WIDOT. thread
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2011.02.14 00:59:00 -
[14]
Originally by: k Rose EVE market is sad (teeter totter) or a balancing act. So your manufacturing will change all the time do to lack of building, when unbalanced on one side.
Hogwash, it's not sad; it's a free market. You could take manufacturing away from the player..you could take freedom of pricing away from the player but that would be a sad mistake. Competition is what keeps prices reasonable. There have been some changes to PI recently that are still rippling through the market. The ripples will eventually settle.
Just remember markets that do not fluctuate offer no opportunity to make a nice profit by being market savvy.
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Sokrates Zosimus
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Posted - 2011.02.14 02:00:00 -
[15]
Sure sure, do PI in low sec. Thats always the answer isnt it. Just gift the PI to nullsec and everybody shut up.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.02.14 10:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus Sure sure, do PI in low sec. Thats always the answer isnt it. Just gift the PI to nullsec and everybody shut up.
You expect the best place to extract to be the same place where everyone lives and operate with zero risks? High sec was colonized long before low sec and 0.0, hence it stands to reason resources are more depleted and contested there.
What you want sir...is an I win button, except there can't be all winners without losers, thus it is time to figure out how to get in the right category. And then we come to my final statement, everything you do affects others in some way, hence it is always PvP trough competition and not necessarily trough combat.
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Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
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Posted - 2011.02.14 13:17:00 -
[17]
Just do your PI in a quiet low-sec system and skill up for a Blockade Runner. That, or do PI in a wormhole.
On high-sec planets you're probably better off doing pure production. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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k Rose
BOOM BOOM POW
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Posted - 2011.02.14 15:08:00 -
[18]
I guess you missed my point.
It cost isk to start PI, so its going to take months to see a profit.
Note: Before the change in PI we were doing paste between 3 of us and our net profit for two weeks was 500million in 0.0. I am not currently in 0.0 atm. Also I havent done planet interaction with drills (I'm sure that hasnt change anything)
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Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
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Posted - 2011.02.14 16:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: k Rose I guess you missed my point.
It cost isk to start PI, so its going to take months to see a profit.
Note: Before the change in PI we were doing paste between 3 of us and our net profit for two weeks was 500million in 0.0. I am not currently in 0.0 atm. Also I havent done planet interaction with drills (I'm sure that hasnt change anything)
You are doing something wrong then. My profit levels are off the charts doing this in 0.0. Sure there was initial investment, but that was paid off in the first week.
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Arnakoz
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Posted - 2011.02.14 17:17:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Llyandrian
The prices of PI goods are falling hard, esp those needed to make POS fuels, stinks of a stealth buff for POS owning large alliances at the expense of PI industry.
eh, if that is the case, then buy those mats while they;re cheap and produce for more profit. you;ll drive prices back up and go back to producing those P1's.
there is always a decent profit to be made from it. even if all of the prices for PI products drop to near nothing, then just start producing the things that they are used to produce (e.g. buy up that cheap rocket fuel and make T2 missiles, and glee at the increased profit margin...)
its not like there aren't spreadsheets out there, which other made for you, that make this decision making process simple.
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Berikath
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Posted - 2011.02.14 19:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gavin DeVries Probably the cause is people saw P1 as the profitable thing to make and started all doing that, causing a glut in the market, causing prices to drop. This will, in turn, cause people to either stop PI altogether or switch to a different product. Either way, the supply of P1 will dwindle and prices will rise again.
Also... remember they implemented depletion AND an extractor overhaul with Incursion. Meaning that all the planets (probably) spawned completely full, and lots more people went and tried extraction again. See what happens to the price in a month or two when half the people get bored and quit, and the other half tune their cycle length to match the depletion rate.
*** [ SIG] ***
Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing *Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ] |
Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2011.02.14 21:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Berikath
Originally by: Gavin DeVries Probably the cause is people saw P1 as the profitable thing to make and started all doing that, causing a glut in the market, causing prices to drop. This will, in turn, cause people to either stop PI altogether or switch to a different product. Either way, the supply of P1 will dwindle and prices will rise again.
Also... remember they implemented depletion AND an extractor overhaul with Incursion. Meaning that all the planets (probably) spawned completely full, and lots more people went and tried extraction again. See what happens to the price in a month or two when half the people get bored and quit, and the other half tune their cycle length to match the depletion rate.
This. Notice there's also a thread crying about planets drying up. Everything is still new, and it's still balancing itself out.
Things would balance out faster if CCP would bring back PI reprocessing. I think any short term damage done to the market would be more than made up for by more quickly finding that point of equilibrium.
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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
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Posted - 2011.02.15 06:20:00 -
[23]
Going mostly off guesswork, but suspect part of whatever drop there may have been in PI prices may be due to folk over-extracting on their planets and swamping the market. I didn't have much time to mess around with the new PI system, but was definitely seeing a steady and noticeable decrease in average extraction rates on all P0->P1 planets when using 16-hour/6-hour programs. Previously, running two or three 5-hour cycles a day did not have much of an effect on extraction rates, while the output of P1 products per day per planet was actually somewhat higher. Didn't care much at the time, since the idea was to extract as much as possible in as short a time as possible due to changes in the local situation, but seems like the new PI system favors multi-day extraction programs for maximum long-term efficiency.
Also, there's probably been an influx of players looking to test the new PI system, and their products are only now starting to really hit the market. A good chunk of them will probably get bored and stop producing over the next month or two.
Either way, if you think that the current market price for one of your products is too low, is probably a good idea to stockpile that product for a while instead of selling immediately. Did that with Robotics, and the additional margin was well worth the wait in the end.
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Ifandbut Reborn
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.02.15 09:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus
I've quit doing PI. Since the new PI was introduced i've spent 40 mil every few days trying to get 2 P2 per planet. It can't be done. They screwed up high sec planets so bad you can barely feed 1 advanced factory and often not even that. Yes i do P1 and ship it to a factory. It's not worth the time making 40 jumps to collect what 3 basic industrys per planet can make a day, if you can even get that much. The time you spend shifting heads around, killing ECU's, abandoning planets and searching for ones that give you more than 4k per hour is simply not worth it.
I dont know what EVE you are playing but I spent about 6 mil on my second planet at the start of the week. How do you spend 40 mil on one planet? I make 2 P2s and process them into a P3 that I sell. I do this in a 0.6 system. I extract one P0 each day and rotate the factories around. Maybe I have the whole planet to myself or something, idk.
Sure, even a new character like me can make more money grinding missions. But, it is nice to log on in the morning and sell what I cooked over night and have a nice 2+mil to start the day off with.
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Felix Decat
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Posted - 2011.02.15 10:12:00 -
[25]
My total start up costs for 5 planets (4 extractor, 1 P2 factory planet) was about 40 million. However, I pull in about 15 million a day. Well, I kinda pull in 15 million a day. Started out great, but due to PI depletion levels, I am at about 2/3rds of that now. Either way, stupidly fast depletion levels notwithstanding, PI prints isk.
Granted this is in 0.0 and on virgin planets, your mileage may vary.
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Llyandrian
Amarr Livestock Science Exchange
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Posted - 2011.02.15 10:59:00 -
[26]
The new patch will reset the depletion again so another supply spike and prices will crash even more.
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Gillaboo
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Posted - 2011.02.15 12:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Llyandrian
The prices of PI goods are falling hard, esp those needed to make POS fuels, stinks of a stealth buff for POS owning large alliances at the expense of PI industry.
I view it as a profitable opportunity, easy ISK. No brainer.
-------------------------------------------------------- This space For Rent. |
Dirk Smacker
United Space Marine Corp
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Posted - 2011.02.15 12:59:00 -
[28]
If P1 prices are indeed crashing, it could become profitable to buy them and produce the right P2-P4's in hi sec for profit if you act fast enough. I doubt it, though.
But I think people were stocking up thinking the changes would cause a shortage or the new Incursion BPC's would boost the entire economy, which will take a lot longer than expected (if ever).
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Llyandrian
Amarr Livestock Science Exchange
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Posted - 2011.02.15 19:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Llyandrian
The new patch will reset the depletion again so another supply spike and prices will crash even more.
Prediction confirmed, depletion has been reset, PI prices will continue to crash from massive over supply.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.02.15 20:31:00 -
[30]
Market forces. Love'em.
If P1 material prices drop low-enough, buy'em up and start making P2, P3 and P4 goods, leaving the extraction work to some other chump!
If you extract P1 materials, consolidate your operation(s) and start making more advanced goods.
If neither of the above are acceptable, then sit on your product until prices rise. The EVE market is highly cyclical as demonstrated by the handy in-game market interface.
There are always options available.
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