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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/02/2011 21:28:34 Hi.
I am a bit confused about the market. I know you can buy items and sell items in the market. I know to use the market, we must buy items then sell items, or sell items that we have in the market to make money.
However, I cannot understand why there is no mechanism to sell items that we don't have yet then buy back them back as a form of trading? I can see skills like broker relations in game and I know someone must have planned to have a market based system in the game.
So, why not add short selling for us players and make a real market based system in Eve? Is it a missing feature or something that is being planned but not done yet? I am asking this is because everyone says Eve has a strong market place in game. --------- The making of the new Jenny Spitfire |
Frau Klaps
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:30:00 -
[2]
Pathetic ---
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Jason McCoy
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:40:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/02/2011 21:28:34 Hi.
I am a bit confused about the market. I know you can buy items and sell items in the market. I know to use the market, we must buy items then sell items, or sell items that we have in the market to make money.
However, I cannot understand why there is no mechanism to sell items that we don't have yet then buy back them back as a form of trading? I can see skills like broker relations in game and I know someone must have planned to have a market based system in the game.
So, why not add short selling for us players and make a real market based system in Eve? Is it a missing feature or something that is being planned but not done yet? I am asking this is because everyone says Eve has a strong market place in game.
What? can someone translate this?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:45:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jason McCoy What? can someone translate this?
Jenny wants to lose all her money by selling short something that suddenly becomes in high demandà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
LaneHacker
Band of Freelancers Turdz Asshatz N Grieferz
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/02/2011 21:28:34 Hi.
I am a bit confused about the market. I know you can buy items and sell items in the market. I know to use the market, we must buy items then sell items, or sell items that we have in the market to make money.
However, I cannot understand why there is no mechanism to sell items that we don't have yet then buy back them back as a form of trading? I can see skills like broker relations in game and I know someone must have planned to have a market based system in the game.
So, why not add short selling for us players and make a real market based system in Eve? Is it a missing feature or something that is being planned but not done yet? I am asking this is because everyone says Eve has a strong market place in game.
Sweet baby Jesus!! Please shut the **** up already!!
More of your attention whoring topics! What's wrong with you? Were you not hugged as a child?
=The original jet-can specialist= |
OverLord Minion
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:48:00 -
[6]
I'm struggling to understand your idea. Selling items that you don't have yet?
I believe that what you want is to set up a buy order for ITEM_A for x ISK. Then, as you buy an that ITEM_A the server would automatically create a sell order for that ITEM_A for x+1 ISK. 1st - This would be an extra load on the servers. 2nd - This is an automation of a process that you should do by yourself. If not, trade would be too easy (it's easy enough as it is).
There is several people making money from the market (this is called trade ). There are several ways to do it. The simplest would be setting a buy order and them (after the item has been bought) setting a sell order. Several other strategies can be used, that might include: buying from sell or buy orders; selling to sell or buy orders; moving assets; building news items from the items bought.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tippia on 02/02/2011 21:52:27
Originally by: OverLord Minion I'm struggling to understand your idea. Selling items that you don't have yet?
Did you ever see Trading Places? That's what (s)he wants. Well, except for the ape surprise-sex, I supposeà
Also, wiki to the rescue. It's basically a form of speculation where you earn money on decreasing prices ù you buy low, sell high, but not in that order. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/02/2011 21:52:46
Originally by: Tippia Jenny wants to lose all her money by selling short something that suddenly becomes in high demandà
That is not necessary the case ... you can always hedge. It is quite fun to PVP. I do it all the time and I am wondering whether that fun can be translated in game. It would be quite nice to have a vibrant and very active marketplace in Eve.
Originally by: LaneHacker
Sweet baby Jesus!! Please shut the **** up already!!
More of your attention whoring topics! What's wrong with you? Were you not hugged as a child?
Hi LaneHacker, we are civilised people and I am sure you can discuss nicely. A lolly can also be provided if it makes the discussion sweeter. It is not a whoring topic but something that I find lacking in the marketplace. Not sure it is intentional or not.
It is something I have been thinking about after finishing work. --------- The making of the new Jenny Spitfire |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:55:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/02/2011 21:56:38
Originally by: Tippia Also, wiki to the rescue. It's basically a form of speculation where you earn money on decreasing prices ù you buy low, sell high, but not in that order.
Actually, it is about sell high, buy low. It is market PVP, which I cannot find in this game, yet ... And it is not speculation. It is risk management or hedging. Currently, all trades in game are all secured or long trades. There is no way to hedge. --------- The making of the new Jenny Spitfire |
Cathy Drall
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:56:00 -
[10]
I also want the major factions to issue bonds. Or stocks. Or Reverse Convertible Notes. Why can't we safely invest our ISKies in EVE and save up for a good pension?
"Im not nearly as paranoid as people think I am" |
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.02 21:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cathy Drall I also want the major factions to issue bonds. Or stocks. Or Reverse Convertible Notes. Why can't we safely invest our ISKies in EVE and save up for a good pension?
Hang on, I thought there is already an exchange in game or it is a feature waiting to be implemented? I can see shares in corps in game already ... --------- The making of the new Jenny Spitfire |
Cathy Drall
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.02.02 22:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Cathy Drall I also want the major factions to issue bonds. Or stocks. Or Reverse Convertible Notes. Why can't we safely invest our ISKies in EVE and save up for a good pension?
Hang on, I thought there is already an exchange in game or it is a feature waiting to be implemented? I can see shares in corps in game already ...
Yes you can be shareholder in a corp but how safe is that? The CEO just has to disband the corp and it's worthless. That's why I said major factions.
"Im not nearly as paranoid as people think I am" |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.02 22:02:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/02/2011 22:02:25
Originally by: Cathy Drall Yes you can be shareholder in a corp but how safe is that? The CEO just has to disband the corp and it's worthless. That's why I said major factions.
I see. That means corp shares is a different issue. I believe I was talking about the anonymous exchange - the Eve marketplace that is CCP regulated. Nobody can cheat ...
It will be quite nice to have a marketplace PVP. Anyway, I have to go now. Need to go back home and eat. Later. --------- The making of the new Jenny Spitfire |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.02 23:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cathy Drall Yes you can be shareholder in a corp but how safe is that? The CEO just has to disband the corp and it's worthless. That's why I said major factions.
Hi. I am back
Also if major factions issued bonds, there is nothing they can do with the money. It is not like they need the money to replace ships lost in e.g. Incursion. --------- The making of the new Jenny Spitfire |
mkmin
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Posted - 2011.02.02 23:51:00 -
[15]
TL;DR
Wouldn't a thread titled "market discussion" go into the forums titled "market discussion"?
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.02 23:54:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 02/02/2011 23:54:54 mkmin, it is not a market discussion but more about Eve general discussion - brainstorm. Still, it can be placed into either to be honest. --------- The making of the new Jenny Spitfire |
WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2011.02.03 01:05:00 -
[17]
She want's to be able to sell items she doesn't have.
And then buy them after the fact.
It's not a bad idea but it would have to be done in such a way that you cannot access the money from the sale until you actually get the item. So as to prevent ppl from selling things they don't have on an alt then transferring the money and deleting the alt. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Fozzy Dorsai
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Posted - 2011.02.03 01:13:00 -
[18]
In stocks short selling is a technique where you borrow shares from someone who might, for example, own Apple Computer. You do this hoping that Apple will go down. You then buy the shares at the now lower price and return them to the person you borrowed them from. (You'll need to pay them interest for this priviledge.) The problem with short selling in Eve is that there is no good, fluid way to borrow items from someone so that you can sell them. Most folks would be a bit leary (which is a gross understatement) to loan you anything. Another possibility might be to sell a Put Option on an item, which would allow you to force someone else to buy it at a set price...again, you hope that the item goes down, you buy it cheap, and sell it dear. Alas, in the real world there are market mechanisms for this; Eve is not that evolved. Of course you can do any of this as a private side deal...but who to trust?
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.03 01:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire So, why not add short selling for us players and make a real market based system in Eve?
If you're actually looking for an answer to your "why not" and not just submitting an idea on the wrong forum... well you probably know the possible answers, given CCP's track record with features (and bugs). Should I list?
I'll just list one: they won't have time to code short selling for at least 18 months.
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CCP Spitfire
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Posted - 2011.02.03 07:44:00 -
[20]
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion'.
Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online |
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.02.03 23:07:00 -
[21]
Warlock, your idea about money is only realised after the short is closed is a very good idea. It is because the nature of this game and alt toons that can make it hard to implement like in the real world.
Originally by: Fozzy Dorsai In stocks short selling is a technique where you borrow shares from someone who might, for example, own Apple Computer. You do this hoping that Apple will go down. You then buy the shares at the now lower price and return them to the person you borrowed them from. (You'll need to pay them interest for this priviledge.) The problem with short selling in Eve is that there is no good, fluid way to borrow items from someone so that you can sell them. Most folks would be a bit leary (which is a gross understatement) to loan you anything. Another possibility might be to sell a Put Option on an item, which would allow you to force someone else to buy it at a set price...again, you hope that the item goes down, you buy it cheap, and sell it dear. Alas, in the real world there are market mechanisms for this; Eve is not that evolved. Of course you can do any of this as a private side deal...but who to trust?
Fozzy, there is no need to make it into options. Just make them as positions where a trader can open and close their short positions is enough. When they open a short in NPC stations, the item magically (you can put a backstory like emergency supplies from the station) appears in the market. Someone can then buy it.
Of course, the money is not realised until the position is closed. To close the position, the trader will need to move the item from elsewhere back to the station to return to it.
However, all positions like normal orders have a time span. At expiry, if a position is not closed, the market automatically closes it and a trader will automatically be set back by the original amount in ISK. It can put the trader into negative ISKs.
It is a valid form of PVP. It can also provide sudden access to liquidity in game. It is also a zero sum game where nothing new is added to the economy. Although item magically appears, it needs to be returned (closed). --------- The making of the new Jenny Spitfire |
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