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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2011.01.30 22:08:00 -
[1]
Originally by: CCP Explorer This is The Forge market and is a bottleneck we have now encountered with the ever increasing activity in EVE. We are aware of this issue.
Linkage
CCP being 'aware' of the issue does not mean it will be fixed soon (or even soonÖ). If this continues/gets worse, perhaps some of the traffic will move to the other hubs. Would this be the mechanism by which Jita's dominance gets broken?
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.01.30 22:16:00 -
[2]
One thing to note is that this will only happen on Sundays due to the higher than average activity levels.
I think CCP will just upgrade some hardware (they've got some new server hardware that they were testing kicking around) and that'll be all that needs to be done.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.
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Posted - 2011.01.30 22:16:00 -
[3]
I doubt it would mean the end of Jita.
Originally by: Rheeii
Whats he going to be probing with CORE probes?
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Cheque Please
Hot Like Mexico
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Posted - 2011.01.30 22:29:00 -
[4]
Jita, 30/1/11
Never forget --- RL Meeting w/ Chribba
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Fred Barbossa
Free Mineral Collective
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Posted - 2011.01.30 23:00:00 -
[5]
Who knew that the system with the most people in it puts the most load on the system.
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Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
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Posted - 2011.01.30 23:53:00 -
[6]
Well, I guess we better put more people in there until it stops breaking.
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Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard Revival Of The Talocan Empire
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Posted - 2011.01.31 00:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tasko Pal Well, I guess we better put more people in there until it stops breaking.
Isn't this the current theory on fleet fights?
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.01.31 01:28:00 -
[8]
Jita should really be declared it's own region when it comes to the market, and one could do it in a lolRP way by having Caldari declare it as such due to the international nature of Jita 4-4.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.01.31 03:36:00 -
[9]
It'd be fun to have taxes depend a bit on server load, too.
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PinkFish
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Posted - 2011.01.31 04:13:00 -
[10]
Edited by: PinkFish on 31/01/2011 04:13:16
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Jita should really be declared it's own region when it comes to the market, and one could do it in a lolRP way by having Caldari declare it as such due to the international nature of Jita 4-4.
The last, best hope for peace.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.01.31 07:58:00 -
[11]
Office tax increases dramatically as the available office slots become scarcer.
Tax on market products should do the same. Once Jita stops being convenient at > 1600 people in local or so, people will naturally "overflow" in the next system. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop
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Posted - 2011.01.31 09:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha ...
Tax on market products should do the same. Once Jita stops being convenient at > 1600 people in local or so, people will naturally "overflow" in the next system.
that didn't happen with fleets. why would it happen with market? maybe this would be good time for CCP to encourage stronger regional hubs and inter-regional trade. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon." |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.01.31 09:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha ...
Tax on market products should do the same. Once Jita stops being convenient at > 1600 people in local or so, people will naturally "overflow" in the next system.
that didn't happen with fleets. why would it happen with market? maybe this would be good time for CCP to encourage stronger regional hubs and inter-regional trade.
I am not CCP game designer. I can't help if they can't figure out that the game limits are due to their lack of design and not because bigger hardware has to be thrown (and inevitably overloaded again). Even the terribads who made Warhammer Online got the concept after all. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.01.31 09:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha ...
Tax on market products should do the same. Once Jita stops being convenient at > 1600 people in local or so, people will naturally "overflow" in the next system.
that didn't happen with fleets. why would it happen with market? maybe this would be good time for CCP to encourage stronger regional hubs and inter-regional trade.
The situations are not directly comparable.
In any case, there are plenty of other viable hubs people can use other than Jita; Rens, Amarr, Dodixie, Nonni (plus some others I'm probably missing). They have as many people active as Jita did a coupl of years ago, and you can buy and sell everything there.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.31 10:09:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Fulbert on 31/01/2011 10:10:15
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Jita should really be declared it's own region when it comes to the market, and one could do it in a lolRP way by having Caldari declare it as such due to the international nature of Jita 4-4.
Jita = at least 90% of Forge market activity. Your idea means we reduce data exchanges by 10% only. If Jita becomes a separated region, we wouldn't have so much time before the problem appears again. -------------------------------- Fulbert. Miner - Industrialist |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.31 10:15:00 -
[16]
People in this thread: "Whaa Jita"
Explorer quote:
Originally by: CCP Explorer
This is not Jita as such and is not related to the increase in the Jita cap.
This is The Forge market and is a bottleneck we have now encountered with the ever increasing activity in EVE. We are aware of this issue.
Linkage
So the problem is not Jita alone, it is the limit of the manageable orders in a region.
Moving people to the next system in the same region will not help. Capping Jita population will not help.
Probably it is even a positive thing that this kind of limit exist, it will push a few traders to use the secondary hubs.
The limit is always the same, 1 server 1 game, the strength and weakness of EVE at the same time. As the population increase the demands on the market increase and it gets to the hardware/software limits.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.31 10:17:00 -
[17]
Imagine how laggy it'll be with 1600 people 'walking in stations' and the server having to keep track of the colour and size of every fool's hat and what sort of dance they are doing as WELL as spamming contract scams while running around turning their torch on/off/on/off endlessly ducking and jumping like rabbits etc. :D
More serious note .. I thought CCP removed the market transactions and character info from general day-to-day server load like spaceships? If there are seperate servers dedicated solely to the market and it cannot handle 2000 people in the whole region, let alone the fact that they're not ALL clicking on "tritanium price plz" every 3minutes .. well that's some terrible terrible inefficient coding right there. Hopefully they are 'on it' and 'soon.'
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Hybok
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Posted - 2011.01.31 10:44:00 -
[18]
Jita should have special docking / gate taxes ...
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.31 10:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: PinkFish
The last, best hope for peace.
I thought about posting some Babylon 5 reference myself
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.01.31 10:55:00 -
[20]
+1 for B5 -1 for Jita
they'll run some magic soon I hope --
Join BIG
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.31 12:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lederstrumpf It'd be fun to have taxes depend a bit on server load, too.
I'm a software designer IRL, and I think that would actually be quite difficult/problematic to implement, because in practice tax operates at several different points in time line and code base, tax is shown/displayed when the order is created, but is actioned when the order is executed, it's captured in the journal and reduces wallet in a third point My developer instincts tell me that would be a can of worms.
I think the best option, is to increase the tax and broker penalty for poor standing. I've always believe that the amount of trading with the enemy is rather immersion breaking.
Heth would very much like to encourage enemies of the Caldari state to go elsewhere, protectionism is very in character for him, the other factions would have to follow suit to keep to in retaliation vouched in terms of protecting their own market interests.
Given the distraction of the Concord assembly, it is feasible that their diplomatic capital and efforts to avoid such a crisis would be diminished.
Modifying the trade route between the hubs would also help, distribute trade more, increase the distance between enemies, and reduce it between friends. So Gallente hubs get closer to Minmatar hubs, but further from Jita and Amarr, and vice-a-versa.
Increase the network effect value of the lesser hubs, add a station or two to each system with additional services, a factory, a lab, etc. Place a few good quality agents in adjacent systems, say one of each level.
I would also introduce an import duty when creating courier contracts to other faction sovereignty, based on their relative faction standing. Haulers carrying their own good would become de-facto smugglers. If they got scanned transiting to an enemy region they could suffer a faction standing loss, do it via lower security systems and the loss is lower, do it via none sovereignty systems, i.e. into/out of null sec then no loss.
At the moment trading with enemy has minimal impact, I strongly feel it should have some.
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Jack Paladin
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.01.31 13:50:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Jack Paladin on 31/01/2011 13:51:54 Reply Above - tl;dr The Forge is failscading, evacuate your assets to Amarr noaw!
Orrr, get rid of scammers? Im pretty sure they make up atleast 75% of the load.
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Companion Qube
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Posted - 2011.01.31 13:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jack Paladin Orrr, get rid of scammers? Im pretty sure they make up atleast 75% of the load.
The forge market is overloaded by normal activity, scammers are spamming local - not the market. They'll probably just throw more hardware at it.
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Yarrow Naritus
Caldari Divisione Ricerca e Sviluppo The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2011.01.31 14:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jack Paladin Edited by: Jack Paladin on 31/01/2011 13:51:54 Orrr, get rid of scammers? Im pretty sure they make up atleast 75% of the load.
I imagine if they'd turn off the Local chat tab for Jita, most of scammers would go elsewhere.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.01.31 15:07:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 31/01/2011 15:08:00
Originally by: Wyke Mossari Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 31/01/2011 12:19:07
Originally by: Lederstrumpf It'd be fun to have taxes depend a bit on server load, too.
I'm a software designer IRL, and I think that would actually be quite difficult/problematic to implement, because tax operates at several different points in time line and code base, tax is shown/displayed when the order is created, but is actioned when the order is executed, it's captured in the journal and reduces wallet at another. My developer instincts tell me that would be a can of worms.
There should be no problem whatsoever to implement an additional non refundable fee ("tax") to be paid for order creation/adjustment/execution based on some recent average transaction per time ratio. "Have people pay extra who want to trade during peak hours on busy market places".
And yes, some cans of worms have to get cranked up prior to bottlenecks becoming indefeasible behemoths. Good software design must not be scared of it. It reads "never change a running system", not "never change a crawling system".
Originally by: Wyke Mossari I think the best option, is to increase the tax and broker fees/penalty for poor standing.
In the short term that'd only let people with good standing profit - good standing because exactly those tend to be the ones frequently trading right there, causing the symptoms. In medium term it might just make it worse as plenty of folk might be tempted to do mission running on top of trading to adjust their standings. There'd be no long term benefit.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.31 15:15:00 -
[26]
Extra fees/taxes on something as busy as jita wont work. In real life taxing something to encourage people to move to some other area of travel/business/whatever the issue is rarely actually makes them move, it is just a money maker for "those in power" or whatever. In a game like EVE it would act as a nice isk sink, but unless the amount is substantial that isk sink will be small and would not deter trade. I would not move out of jita if it meant 1% extra taxes, because I make far more than that by being in jita than I would elsewhere.
Tightening up the code is what they really need to do, especially if they want to continue growing the game. They know about the problem, and new hardware is not an answer because the bottleneck will be reached again. They will re-code the markets. They've already moved a lot of things around and changed the markets a lot, they are more than likely in process of changing how the markets work fundamentally.
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Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
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Posted - 2011.01.31 15:16:00 -
[27]
Just ban the lesser races from civilised areas such as Jita or at least tax them more heavily for the privilege of having sanitation and electricity.
Joint Venture Conglomerate |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.31 15:20:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
I think the best option, is to increase the tax and broker fees/penalty for poor standing. I've always believed that the amount of trading with the enemy is rather immersion breaking.
Most traders have already maximized the Caldari Navy standing. Those without a good standing with CN only need to piggyback a mission runner for CN (dime a dozen) as corporation standing are shared at mission completion.
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Modifying the trade route between the hubs could also help to distribute trade more. Increase the distance between enemies, and reduce it between friends and allow opportunity cost to do it's work. So Gallente hubs get closer to Minmatar hubs, but further from Jita and Amarr, and vice-a-versa.
Check the distance between the Gallente-Minmatar hubs and Jita and Amarr. The high sec route to Jita is already way longer for Minmatar and Gallente than for Amarr.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.31 15:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
I think the best option, is to increase the tax and broker fees/penalty for poor standing. I've always believed that the amount of trading with the enemy is rather immersion breaking.
Most traders have already maximized the Caldari Navy standing. Those without a good standing with CN only need to piggyback a mission runner for CN (dime a dozen) as corporation standing are shared at mission completion.
Except for every Jita Trader there are numerous customers generating transactions and triggering traffic control.
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PinkFish
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Posted - 2011.01.31 15:55:00 -
[30]
Technologically the task they are doing shouldn't be that hard. The challenge is that they are trying to do it in an interpreted language. They need to move more and more of their back-end into more streamlined code.
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