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Supernova
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Posted - 2005.01.24 23:51:00 -
[1]
CCP, its obvious there is 5 main types of rat in EVE, the angels, the blood raiders, the guristas, the sansha and the serpentis.
Take one look here: http://www.eve-i.com/home/crowley/page/page_objectexplorer.php?id=959
Look at the 4 damage types that the angel rats on the list deal, you can clearly see that the angel rats deal a mixture of all 4 damage types, this means they are very hard to tank, not many people are willing to fit 4 hardners.
Now look at the other 4 types of rat and what damage they deal, they each deal only 2 diffrent types of damage, sansha for instance, are only dealing thermal and EM damage, so an em and thermal hardner on an armor tanker would take you up 80% EM 60-70% thermal, fit 2 EM hardners and 2 thermal hardners and your talking up to 90% and 80% resistances vs the only 2 damage types that these rats deal.
The same applies for all rat types apart from angels, you can fit 2 hardners and have 2 spare slots for more cap recharge or repairers/shield amps, for angels, theres no way to win, you have to use all 4 hardners just to have the same resistances vs the npc's as someone who is fighting one of the other 4 npc types, 2 more slots wasted for the same effect, with those 2 slots, other people are quadroupling there resistances by using 2 hardners, or getting extra tanking.
WHERE is the balance? Angels dont drop better loot than the other npc's, they probably drop the worst of all loot actually, so we have a fight which is effectively twice as hard because the angels are for some stupid reason, god knows why, very imbalanced, and this is actually true, if i could get up to 90 and 80% resistances vs the two single damage types that is being dealt to me on a BS, i would take half the damage that im current taking from angels.
The ONLY reason to actually NPC on angels is because the area of space that I am in has only angel spawns. What is worse, it only has angel complexes aswell, I want to actually do some complexes without having to travel to the other side of the EVE universe so i can fight the properly balanced rats.
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Supernova
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Posted - 2005.01.24 23:58:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Supernova on 25/01/2005 21:00:34 Edited by: Supernova on 25/01/2005 00:05:52 Edited by: Supernova on 24/01/2005 23:59:34 Heres even more inbalance, look at the missile types the Sansha use, its literally all EM/thermal. May aswell fit those 2x EM 2x thermal hardners and go do a high level complex in stain. Its quite sad when I have to travel 30-40 jumps to go npcing because the npcs in my home are bugged.
I also forgot to mention that the sansha have only 50-60% resistances to EM/thermal at best whereas you see angels with resistances of up to 77.5%. If your using lasers, on an armor tanked apoc/armageddon... god i need not even say it, the imbalance is sick.
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Xthril Ranger
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Posted - 2005.01.25 00:08:00 -
[3]
Do NPC missions , then you are sure that angels will be the only thing you will not fight :-D
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Leno
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Posted - 2005.01.25 00:16:00 -
[4]
Dont they also drop like all the best stuff? ---------------
RIP - Smoske, My Friend
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Supernova
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Posted - 2005.01.25 00:16:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Supernova on 25/01/2005 00:16:09 Heres another thing that just about sums it up, the end complex structure that fires XL torpedo's, the 1800 damage ones, that has a 4x damage modifier for the complex, they deal about 6000+ damage, the sansha one deals EM damage, well that wont be a problem with the 90% EM resist you'll have, just stroll through a whole level 10 complex.
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Infinity Ziona
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Posted - 2005.01.25 00:20:00 -
[6]
You should probably be happy you have access to all those pesky NPC's.
I do agree though that the NPCS are currently unbalanced and all except Angels need to be made more difficult because currently any idiot in a battleship can chain 10 million isk an hour spawns, perhaps more, + loot for refining + named loot and make way too much money for the risk.
Seeing that your in Xetic, you could easily head all the way south to the bases down there and then jump across to Paragon Soul using the convenient jumpgates located there - Thar be Pirates! Big Sansha ones and only 1 or 2 jumps from Xetic space and stations.
Infinity Ziona
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Supernova
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Posted - 2005.01.25 00:51:00 -
[7]
Arn't projectiles getting boosted with the coming patch to, wont that apply to angels?
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Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2005.01.25 01:44:00 -
[8]
mabye its not supposed to be ballenced.
there has to be a best yeah?
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This i |
babyblue
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Posted - 2005.01.25 01:58:00 -
[9]
You don't need to fit 4 harders to fight them. I fit 3 on an apoc because I've got high resistance to EM already. The spawns are still easy. The only problem with the little buggers is they come in real close, orbiting at 5k or so and can be difficult to hit with megapulses. The upside is they drop decent shield tanking mods and pretty good siege launchers too as well as a crap load of named 1200mm large projectile weapons. Only problem is I don't use any of them with current setups, so it's all loot for sale.
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Alberta
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Posted - 2005.01.25 02:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Supernova Arn't projectiles getting boosted with the coming patch to, wont that apply to angels?
I don't think this will have any direct effect since NPC's don't fly "real" ships and use "real" guns as far as I understand it. Unlike a player ship which has its combat stats (such as range, tracking, damage mod etc.) altered depending on what modules it has fitted, NPC's are just made up of the end-of-the-line stats. Whether the devs decide to boost or nerf NPC's in line with changes to player mods is a different matter. I mean, how many angels have you seen in here complaining about the tracking on their 1400's
My Thoughts on Game Balance |
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.01.25 02:21:00 -
[11]
angels are supposed to be the hardest npcs, read up on the backstory if you don't know why.
besides, who gives a damn when you can tank forever with 5 hardeners and 2 large reps. oh, and the hp changes only apply to players.
_____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Vicker Lahn'se
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Posted - 2005.01.25 03:41:00 -
[12]
It's kinda funny that the mightiest npc corp uses all projectiles... =)
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Supernova
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Posted - 2005.01.25 03:48:00 -
[13]
And drops the worst all round loot of all of NPC
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Bernard Normal
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Posted - 2005.01.25 05:33:00 -
[14]
Why should npcs be balanced? There's too much emphasis on balance in Eve already... and balance ultimately equals boredom.
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Nikana
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Posted - 2005.01.25 05:36:00 -
[15]
Why should they "nerf" angel npcs? They are the ones with the supposedly stolen Jovian technology. Read up on the story like DigitalCommunist said. It helps you to understand better . Much. Better.
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Supernova
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Posted - 2005.01.25 06:08:00 -
[16]
CCP probably made that story because they didnt want to fix the major imbalance.
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Reite
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Posted - 2005.01.25 07:57:00 -
[17]
mum! All the rats in the game isnt 100% equal! mum, that isnt fair! *cry**cry**cry* :(
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Kuolematon
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Posted - 2005.01.25 08:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Supernova CCP probably made that story because they didnt want to fix the major imbalance.
Oh boy, here we go again. Why don't we all just ignore all "background" stories and have mindless game where we don't have to use our brains. Lets just call it EVE: CS Genesis ... I mean who really bothers to read up all those stories wrote there. THEY WILL NERF MEH PVP ONEONEONE!!!!
On the serious note, I have read all stories there is on chronicles and short stories. Have you? No you haven't. Go back to suck velspar on yulai. _______________________________________________ My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
(\_/) (x.x) This is what's left of Bunny, the rest tasted delicious. |
Ulanti Blackwell
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Posted - 2005.01.25 08:22:00 -
[19]
Yes! Make them all equally sucky. And while we're at it please make it so players can only chose one race with exactly the same stats please CCP! Pretty please! I agree with one of the posters above me, all equal npc's equal boredom. Too bad if you can't handle the Angels, go somewher eelse then, the EVE universe is big. I don't give a crud if Angels are harder, there IS a reason for it. Read the background. and if you don't care about background or any of the fine stories CCP has given us then go play CS.
And yes, I know what I'm talking about, I live with the angels every day.
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Specops
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Posted - 2005.01.25 09:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ulanti Blackwell Yes! Make them all equally sucky. And while we're at it please make it so players can only chose one race with exactly the same stats please CCP! Pretty please! I agree with one of the posters above me, all equal npc's equal boredom. Too bad if you can't handle the Angels, go somewher eelse then, the EVE universe is big. I don't give a crud if Angels are harder, there IS a reason for it. Read the background. and if you don't care about background or any of the fine stories CCP has given us then go play CS.
And yes, I know what I'm talking about, I live with the angels every day.
Amazing how the Angels use all this old Jovian technology yet from the millions of Angel ships destroyed not one has ever droped anything that would give them a edge over other factions.
~Specops~ |
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Zefran Cochran
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Posted - 2005.01.25 09:20:00 -
[21]
I had a similar thread to this about a week or so ago.
I'm not worried about their resistance. I am however, worried that their loot dropping is utter crap, and needs to be revised.
I kill equivalent Sansha rats and I get large armour repairers and large crystals. When I do the same with angels I get medium repairers and 1mn AB
I think I could hold the market record for all the 1mn Afterburners out there. Please explain to me how a BS is using a 1mn AB?
I'm not asking for elite "named" items to be dropped, just equivalent items that would be on that ship.
Also, I am yet to see a Domination spawn in the Omist Region of EVE. I know they must exist, but where are they?
I know what Supernova is on about as he would be located in the same region as space as me. The complex that he is probably referring to, which is a threat level of 8/10 spawns some nice rats, but yet again, they drop nothing that is even worth collecting for the corp hangars.
BTW - Are cargo expanders being dropped by rats anymore? Never seen one out this way?
I disagree with modifying the resistance levels etc. It's good to come up against different style rats. It breaks down the boredom. I quite enjoy killing Arch Angels. I would like to see more "bigger" spawn types, and of course, better loot.
Change the loot table and I bet no-one wil complain about Angels ever again!
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Ulanti Blackwell
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Posted - 2005.01.25 09:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Specops
Originally by: Ulanti Blackwell Yes! Make them all equally sucky. And while we're at it please make it so players can only chose one race with exactly the same stats please CCP! Pretty please! I agree with one of the posters above me, all equal npc's equal boredom. Too bad if you can't handle the Angels, go somewher eelse then, the EVE universe is big. I don't give a crud if Angels are harder, there IS a reason for it. Read the background. and if you don't care about background or any of the fine stories CCP has given us then go play CS.
And yes, I know what I'm talking about, I live with the angels every day.
Amazing how the Angels use all this old Jovian technology yet from the millions of Angel ships destroyed not one has ever droped anything that would give them a edge over other factions.
I guess the term "game balance" is unknown to you? If they dropped jovian loot the economics of this game would go down the drain and all system without angels would be emptied faster than it takes for me to snap my fingers. the fact that pirates are not all evenly balanced doesn't upset the general game balance because you can always go after other rats in other systems but jovian loot would, most ptopably, put a huge dent in game balance.
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Loka
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Posted - 2005.01.25 10:04:00 -
[23]
lol, never saw any CA complaining about the NPCs. They are hard like their former citizens. Dont whine, its more fun. In the end, they die all the same way, Angels are just a bit tougher. _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
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Gian Bal
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Posted - 2005.01.25 10:10:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Gian Bal on 25/01/2005 10:11:29 point a) they use jovian ships, not jovian guns. otherwise all farmers that npcing angels would use structuretanks....
point b) is, you mustn't shoot at them if u don't want. you mustn't become a mass murder (farming npc's is far more bad in a moralic way than pking, as players have eggs, means they have 1 single lifeform in their ships, while you kill thousands of humans when blowing up an npc bs )like the rest of the world. other players are able to kill them , and other players like their loot (domination generally needs lesser cap than other mods, i think). i think they give best loot. and most of them are closerange, so if u choose a good setup they are easy prey. now stop crying and move your imagination on important things, like hp-increase (hp-increase is bad, hp-increase is bad, must post i dislike hp-increase for all reasons i can imagine...), interceptor upgrades, proj., REAL bugs, etc....
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.01.25 10:14:00 -
[25]
how about the fact that npc battleships are incapable of fitting a warp disruptor?
how about the fact that an npc battleship doesn't even deal as much damage as a player battleship?
how about the fact that an npc battleship doesn't even tank as much as a player battleship?
how about the fact that npcs don't do any EW at all?
how about the fact that you have PIRATE ARMADAS spawning and attacking things in 1.0 space on a regular basis?
how about the fact that the other pirate factions are so stupid they are using missles of the same damage type as their main weapon?
if anything those are MAJOR imbalances, angels being the way they are only makes them seem more realistic.
please take a healthy dose of bleach to quench that whining. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Cardassius
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Posted - 2005.01.25 10:55:00 -
[26]
Oh for ppl complaning about loot from bs's.. You guys prolly don't collect the frig/cruiser loot do you? Thought so.
I've had TONS of good stuff from frigs/cruisers.
ASCI Recruiting! |
Sybylle
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Posted - 2005.01.25 11:48:00 -
[27]
Well Angels are harder, but I'm happy about that... What doesn't make me happy is what they drop...Frigates or cruisers will give you the best loots. BS are only interesting for their bounty, nothing else.
Enganging Angels is always fun, as you take a lot of damage really fast, but it's easy to manage as long as you got skills and the appropriate fitting. You can tank them easily with an Apoc, and if you aren't able to kill them on your own, then just get a corpm8 to shoot them.
If you want easier rats, just move to Paragon Soul...They have a lot of Shansha to target-practice (\_/) (O.o) (> <)=Oveur (proof) "Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period" |
Estios
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Posted - 2005.01.25 11:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se It's kinda funny that the mightiest npc corp uses all projectiles... =)
I seem to notice a lot of missles being fired and dropped too .....
Domination Warp Disruptor - 30 km Dread Gurista Warp Disrupt - 24 km
Domination Web - 15 km 90% Sansha Web - 15 km 60%
Or something like that, Angels are for sure the toughest to kill but if you dont like it , MOVE The story says they are the toughest so deal
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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Icarus100
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Posted - 2005.01.25 12:00:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Supernova Edited by: Supernova on 25/01/2005 00:05:52 Edited by: Supernova on 24/01/2005 23:59:34 Heres even more inbalance, look at the missile types the Sansha use, its literally all EM/thermal. May aswell fit those 2x EM 2x thermal hardners and go do a high level complex in stain. Its quite sad when I have to travel 30-40 jumps to go npcing because the npcs in my home are bugged.
You can't do a high level complex in stain, mainly because there ISN'T ONE FLEPPING COMPLEX IN STAIN, and now go whine about unbalanced puh.
Oh btw, WTS: named shield relays. - My hair is ugly.. |
Puke Skystalker
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Posted - 2005.01.25 12:09:00 -
[30]
Angel loot is appalying and their commanders are rarer than a 30 year old virgin. I've yet to see a single commander in 2-3 months in Angel space, a similar time period spent in Blood space and I must have seen / killed around 6+ high level commanders or rare spawns
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