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Seraph IX Basarab
Haita de lupi ROMANIAN-LEGION
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 07:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
...stupid. I've never been on the receiving end but it totally breaks game immersion. You have 5 or so guys in destroyers worth a couple mil, blow up a hauler worth much more, CONCORD comes in, kills the gankers, and then they come in with their alts to pick up the loot. It just seems lame. It doesn't seem like the game mechanics are actually good behind this, or how CONCORD works in general.
First off I think CONCORD shouldn't be an insta death. They should be aggressive and capable NPC ships which you CAN get away from or even fight until they bring reinforcements. CONCORD doesn't just insta appear anywhere and everywhere. Based on the security level (1.0-0.5) they take a certain amount of time to appear. Bubbles should be allowed in Empire so that CONCORD can actually bubble gates (perhaps the gates do it by themselves with a crime has been comited) and catch the people trying to get away. Also there should be variations as well within each system as to how CONCORD responds. You gank outside a station, you're pretty much going to see CONCORD in 2 seconds. You do something at an asteroid belt, you have more leeway.
Secondly, anybody who commits a crime in high sec should be banned from high sec for a period of time. (I don't mean literally banned you can't enter but if you try to come in you're going to get attacked by NPCs.) Say Joe pirate and his gang suicide gank a hauler. Their ships get caught by CONCORD and they die. They use their alts to scoop up loot. Good job Joe pirate. Guess what? You're now banned from entering high sec for a month with that character. As a result high sec suicide ganking doesn't stop all together, but it makes it much more difficult and much more rare.
Concerning the point about being able to fight and get away from CONCORD, what stops a powerful alliance from simply attacking and killing CONCORD in Jita and have a massive battle? CONCORD super carriers. Getting away is also difficult. The gates themselves could launch bubbles around them and instead of just doing damage to criminals, perhaps make use of 30km range stasis webs. Only the fastest of frigates could get away putting more importance on pirates flying speedy frigates to kill and get away as fast as possible.
And with all of this in place I see no reason why we can't allow all weapons in empire (bombs anybody?) to be used.
Lastly, I think low sec should be expanded to border every region. This way moving from region to region has a bit more risk, or at least certain regions. It makes trade too easy I think. And in this way concepts such as actual escorting can be viable more so than it is now.
Just my two cents on some mechanics. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
67
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Posted - 2011.09.26 07:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
in before...
this post is Seraph IX Basarab wrote:...stupid.
but really i think only these two:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote: Secondly, anybody who commits a crime in high sec should be banned from high sec for a period of time. (I don't mean literally banned you can't enter but if you try to come in you're going to get attacked by NPCs.) Say Joe pirate and his gang suicide gank a hauler. Their ships get caught by CONCORD and they die. They use their alts to scoop up loot. Good job Joe pirate. Guess what? You're now banned from entering high sec for a month with that character. As a result high sec suicide ganking doesn't stop all together, but it makes it much more difficult and much more rare.
Lastly, I think low sec should be expanded to border every region. This way moving from region to region has a bit more risk, or at least certain regions. It makes trade too easy I think. And in this way concepts such as actual escorting can be viable more so than it is now.
Just my two cents on some mechanics.
have any plausibility to them. If yo make concord anything less then insta-kill then I GUARANTEE an alliance big enough will over run a system because you're underestimating the ability of the players to pull something off like that. If they dont straight up win then they will at least succeed in making the lag of the system 5 times worse then Jita for all the concord spawns trying to fight them off
and btw CONCORD is already scaled for the sec status...0.5 suicide are much easier because of this... The Drake is a Lie |
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2011.09.26 07:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
"I've never been on the receiving end but it totally breaks game immersion."
I have, it's what immortal sky pilots do to each other for all kinds of reasons
"It just seems lame."
Yep, sometimes, if it's for cruel laughs and not tactical at all.
Maybe you weren't around when some people BBQ'd CONCORD.
Your mechanics suggestions wiould turn hisec into 0.0, so, um, no. The turmoil resulting from a 'nerf CONCORD' would be unhelpful in the extreme. Is this a troll? It's a troll, right?
Not sure if trolling. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
51
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Posted - 2011.09.26 07:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:lollerblades
don't tell me the alt that lost that 15bil estamel invuln that was being transported in a noobship was yours [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Naran Eto
Kut-n-Run
1
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Posted - 2011.09.26 07:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:...stupid. I've never been on the receiving end but it totally breaks game immersion. You have 5 or so guys in destroyers worth a couple mil, blow up a hauler worth much more, CONCORD comes in, kills the gankers, and then they come in with their alts to pick up the loot. It just seems lame. It doesn't seem like the game mechanics are actually good behind this, or how CONCORD works in general.
First off I think CONCORD shouldn't be an insta death. They should be aggressive and capable NPC ships which you CAN get away from or even fight until they bring reinforcements. CONCORD doesn't just insta appear anywhere and everywhere. Based on the security level (1.0-0.5) they take a certain amount of time to appear. Bubbles should be allowed in Empire so that CONCORD can actually bubble gates (perhaps the gates do it by themselves with a crime has been comited) and catch the people trying to get away. Also there should be variations as well within each system as to how CONCORD responds. You gank outside a station, you're pretty much going to see CONCORD in 2 seconds. You do something at an asteroid belt, you have more leeway.
Secondly, anybody who commits a crime in high sec should be banned from high sec for a period of time. (I don't mean literally banned you can't enter but if you try to come in you're going to get attacked by NPCs.) Say Joe pirate and his gang suicide gank a hauler. Their ships get caught by CONCORD and they die. They use their alts to scoop up loot. Good job Joe pirate. Guess what? You're now banned from entering high sec for a month with that character. As a result high sec suicide ganking doesn't stop all together, but it makes it much more difficult and much more rare.
Concerning the point about being able to fight and get away from CONCORD, what stops a powerful alliance from simply attacking and killing CONCORD in Jita and have a massive battle? CONCORD super carriers. Getting away is also difficult. The gates themselves could launch bubbles around them and instead of just doing damage to criminals, perhaps make use of 30km range stasis webs. Only the fastest of frigates could get away putting more importance on pirates flying speedy frigates to kill and get away as fast as possible.
And with all of this in place I see no reason why we can't allow all weapons in empire (bombs anybody?) to be used.
Lastly, I think low sec should be expanded to border every region. This way moving from region to region has a bit more risk, or at least certain regions. It makes trade too easy I think. And in this way concepts such as actual escorting can be viable more so than it is now.
Just my two cents on some mechanics.
Erm some of those mechanics you are asking for are pretty much how it works anyway lol!
1. CONCORD does take time to appear, the higher the sec the faster they appear, they also respond faster if they are close by in the area, a well known tactic for miners in belts is to take a low skilled alt in a starter ship and attack their main in the belt, CONCORD will respond and will hang around for some time making their response time quicker. 2. Should be banned from high sec for doing things worng? You already are, it's called security status, the moree you do bad things the lower it gets eventually you will be KOS in high sec. |
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
249
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Posted - 2011.09.26 08:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bombs ARE allowed to be used in high-sec. What do you think popped your velator?
The last thing this game needs is more pandering to babbies. "Why can't I be different and original, like everybody else?" |
Psychophantic
34
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Posted - 2011.09.26 08:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Just be thankful that you have Concord at all.
It'd be like the early days of UO otherwise. You'd be ganked by grief kiddies as soon as you stepped outside.
I've lost an industry alt with a set of +5's and 600m worth of wires to a random bomber with -10 sec who made it to a .8 sec system.
Life goes on. |
Naran Eto
Kut-n-Run
1
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Posted - 2011.09.26 08:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Psychophantic wrote:
It'd be like the early days of UO otherwise. You'd be ganked by grief kiddies as soon as you stepped outside.
Oh god that brings back memories, remember the PK'ers and their little scams?
Before runebooks they used to lure you into a house and plonk a bookcase down infront lof the door so they could kill you without having to chase you, when vendors were introduced and they all had individual names instead of "vendor" PK's would dress up as vendors and stand on the porch of a house waiting for someone to come along and try to look at "what they're selling" then attack them. Remeber trapped bags dropped outside the vaults and pickpockets standing outside the bank.... I used to run with an axe weilding stealther mage with a backpack of axes posioned by my alt... stealth stealth attack poison teleport stealth .. good times! :D |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
93
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 08:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Concord didn't always instapop you. You use to be able to tank them, needless to say that didn't go very well. |
Roime
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
3
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Posted - 2011.09.26 08:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
It's something unpredictable but in the end it's right I hope you had the time of your life
If EVE wasn't cruel, making me a MAD BRO at times and fearing losing ****, it would not be worth playing.
I need my doze of getting kicked in the virtual balls, because our western RL society does not do that.
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Ezurae
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2011.09.26 08:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
ok so you are suggesting to make concord not instadeath but then because ppl shouldnt be able to escape the gates should be bubbled (yeah those other players will be really thankful, great idea brainiac). i think guaranteed death without annoying the other 10 innocent guys on the gate is much better. and ppl should be attacked by npcs if they do commit crime and come back to highsec later. hmm i thought we already had that but maybe its just me... oh and using bombs in empire, wow that might be new. oh wait..... thanks for flawed ideas and suggesting stuff we already have ^^ |
baltec1
61
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Posted - 2011.09.26 09:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bubbles everywhere on the jita 4-4 undock! |
Jokerface666
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
15
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Posted - 2011.09.26 11:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Concord WAS tankable, CCP made them UEBERDEATH becouse it was possible to tank concord with a HUGE amount of ligistics. some guys did it and just poped everything in sight. as i remember.
It works how it should, do not fly someting you can't efford to loose, this includes even the cargo! ------------------------------w00t w00t rapetrain------------------------------ |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
62
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Posted - 2011.09.26 11:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
one question back to the OP
Would you carry a freight worth a couple 100 millions in a untanked hauler , or mine in semi AFK in a complete untanked hulk
Anybody doing that deserves to be ganked If i ever had to chance i would do it again and take the standing hit
END sttement I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Gealbhan
GealCorp
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 12:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rule 1: Never fly what you cannot afford to lose.
All other rules are a variation of this. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Haita de lupi ROMANIAN-LEGION
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 12:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thank you for the few intelligent and relevant replies.
First off, I spend most my time in null but i'm pretty sure you can't use bombs in high sec.
Secondly, what I meant about people getting "banned" from high sec for a certain amount of time I am not talking about the current mechanics. If your sec status is 10 and you do a crime you go down to 6 or whatever. Even so you should be attacked by NPCs in Empire for a certain amount of period regardless of your sec status.
My whole goal is to stop making CONCORD a game mechanic and have it act more like a more natural part of the game. |
Gregor Palter
56
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Posted - 2011.09.26 12:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
High sec suicide is Darwinism, of which there isn't nearly enough of these days. |
KaarBaak
35
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Posted - 2011.09.26 13:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
High sec seems as balanced as it possible can be in a "100% PvP" game. If anything, it's the existence of Concorde at all that breaks the sandbox immersion.
I think CCP does a pretty good job of coddling the high sec playstyle and punishing players who are playing within the realm of true sandbox immersion (highsec pirates) with the current mechanics.
CCP has no real choice in this matter, as highsec players pay the bills. Doesn't mean they have to abandon the true nature of the game entirely, though.
KB
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Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
15
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Posted - 2011.09.26 13:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Thank you for the few intelligent and relevant replies. First off, I spend most my time in null but i'm pretty sure you can't use bombs in high sec..
Stealth bomber bombs: no
Smartbombs: yes
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Seraph IX Basarab
Haita de lupi ROMANIAN-LEGION
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 13:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Linda Shadowborn wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Thank you for the few intelligent and relevant replies. First off, I spend most my time in null but i'm pretty sure you can't use bombs in high sec.. Stealth bomber bombs: no Smartbombs: yes
Yeah nobody cares about smart bombs on this side of the conversation. Was referring to actual bombs. I like flying SBs for the bomb launcher. But you can't use it in Empire for what I assume the reason being is high sec suicide ganking. Imagine dropping 20-30 bombs outside of Jita 4-4 station during prime time.
KaarBaak wrote: High sec seems as balanced as it possible can be in a "100% PvP" game. If anything, it's the existence of Concorde at all that breaks the sandbox immersion.
I think CCP does a pretty good job of coddling the high sec playstyle and punishing players who are playing within the realm of true sandbox immersion (highsec pirates) with the current mechanics.
CCP has no real choice in this matter, as highsec players pay the bills. Doesn't mean they have to abandon the true nature of the game entirely, though.
KB
I think there's a wee bit too much high sec in this game. The fact that you can get to all the major trading hubs without going outside of high sec is lame to me. |
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Naran Eto
Kut-n-Run
1
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Posted - 2011.09.26 13:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Linda Shadowborn wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote:Thank you for the few intelligent and relevant replies. First off, I spend most my time in null but i'm pretty sure you can't use bombs in high sec.. Stealth bomber bombs: no Smartbombs: yes Yeah nobody cares about smart bombs on this side of the conversation. Was referring to actual bombs. I like flying SBs for the bomb launcher. But you can't use it in Empire for what I assume the reason being is high sec suicide ganking. Imagine dropping 20-30 bombs outside of Jita 4-4 station during prime time. KaarBaak wrote: High sec seems as balanced as it possible can be in a "100% PvP" game. If anything, it's the existence of Concorde at all that breaks the sandbox immersion.
I think CCP does a pretty good job of coddling the high sec playstyle and punishing players who are playing within the realm of true sandbox immersion (highsec pirates) with the current mechanics.
CCP has no real choice in this matter, as highsec players pay the bills. Doesn't mean they have to abandon the true nature of the game entirely, though.
KB
I think there's a wee bit too much high sec in this game. The fact that you can get to all the major trading hubs without going outside of high sec is lame to me.
Having access to the trade hubs that easily is obvioulsy how the majority of the plaerbase wants it otherwisw jita would not be a trade hub, if people wanted to have the trade hub in low-sc then it would happen, everyone would up and move to a low-sec system and trade there instead, however they don't they quite happily stay in jita. It may seem lame, but it's what people want. |
Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
65
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Posted - 2011.09.26 13:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:I've never been on the receiving end but it totally breaks game immersion Why? Surely being the captain of a ship and NOT being able to break the rules when YOU decide to is immersion breaking, no? "Oh, we can't fire, its game mechanics" sounds a lot more ****** than "We can fire, but the police WILL murder us"
Quote:First off I think CONCORD shouldn't be an insta death. They should be aggressive and capable NPC ships which you CAN get away from or even fight until they bring reinforcements This was done before. It's either no kill, or assured death. Anywhere in the middle and its just a mess. "CONCORD doesn't just insta appear anywhere and everywhere. Based on the security level (1.0-0.5) they take a certain amount of time to appear" Already the case. "Bubbles should be allowed in Empire so that CONCORD can actually bubble gates (perhaps the gates do it by themselves with a crime has been commited)" And what about uninvolved parties? Can you not see how this would be used as an exploit? Got wartargets to camp? Just spawn CONCORD and you don't even need to fit a scram.
Quote:Also there should be variations as well within each system as to how CONCORD responds. You gank outside a station, you're pretty much going to see CONCORD in 2 seconds. You do something at an asteroid belt, you have more leeway Given that most ganking is against miners, this would enhance the ability to gank. Dumb idea.
Quote:Secondly, anybody who commits a crime in high sec should be banned from high sec for a period of time They are. It's called the Global Criminal Countdown. Undock within 15mins and you're blown up. Commit enough crimes and you can't enter highsec EVER without sorting it out. This would be a ******* stupid idea. What happens to the new player who shoots a can or his mate by accident? Banned from highsec for a month? Dumb.
Quote:As a result high sec suicide ganking doesn't stop all together, but it makes it much more difficult and much more rare If you've ever done any suicide ganking (as opposed to just whining about it) you'll know that sec status becomes an issue VERY VERY quickly already, making it a poor ISK source long term, due to the hassle. A handful of ganks will put you our of Amarr (1.0) and it's not many to be banned from Jita (0.9) which is why most hauler ganking happens in Niarja (0.5). "Concerning the point about being able to fight and get away from CONCORD, what stops a powerful alliance from simply attacking and killing CONCORD in Jita and have a massive battle? CONCORD super carriers" This works until the Goons decide that Jita needs to be a freeport "And with all of this in place I see no reason why we can't allow all weapons in empire (bombs anybody?) to be used" Because I would take 20+ people in stealth bombers, and open fire on Jita 4-4 and insta-pop anything within 15km. Hint: everything there. So would everyone else.
However, all is not lost, because you come out with: "Lastly, I think low sec should be expanded to border every region. This way moving from region to region has a bit more risk, or at least certain regions. It makes trade too easy I think. And in this way concepts such as actual escorting can be viable more so than it is now" I agree. |
Russell Casey
Black Corsairs
17
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 14:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Like everything else in EVE, blame the players first if you're unhappy about a lack of traders falling into your lowsec gatecamp because it's the actions of the community that make the game. The risk/reward factor of lowsec is that it lets you get between trade hubs faster than going all through high sec.
It's like taking a shortcut through "the bad side of town" versus driving through a maze of suburbs. But nowadays it's more like a demiliterized zone than a bad neighborhood because everyone figured out how to tank sentry guns, sensor-boost and is always on the lookout for haulers. The traders decided that even with the occassional suicide gank, they would still make more isk taking tradiing through the longer routes in highsec.
Some still go through low, just like some people PVE there, but you rarely hear about it except when someone makes a thread claiming lowsec is pointless. It's not pointless, by the way.
Now here's the funny thing: lowsec NPC security is basically what the OP is asking for: tankable CONCORD you can run away from if it gets too dicey. And, in sort of a retro fashion, this makes lowsec a living fossil: what EVE was in the days of Moo and Zombie. People were mass-quitting back then because a handful of dedicated players sat on busy areas and shot anyone who came in just for kicks. So CCP buffed CONCORD and ganking became suicide ganking. Pirates actually had to take into consideration the consequences of their actions, making sure there was a worthwhile reason to shoot a particular target, rather than acting like WoW players roaming the first PvP zone outside the newbie area spamming AOEs.
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knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 14:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Been suicide ganked once in 4 years. Don't have an issue with it really. Penalties need to be allot higher though. It's far to easy to get sec status back. |
Satav
Latinum Exports
19
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Posted - 2011.09.26 16:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hmm.
Let me settle this for you.
I'm a huge highsec miner, and I love suicide ganking.
(1) It controls the macro-miner population. (2) It makes me a better player cause i have to fit my hulks well and think of strategies to avoid dying. (3) Events like Hulkaggeddon increase mineral prices which mean for profit for me. (4) It makes the game real and uncertain, risk of loss adds to the value.
All the in game mechanic "solutions" you've proposed would never work do to it interfering with everyone else's gameplay.
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Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
35
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Posted - 2011.09.26 16:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
I remember the days when CONCORD didn't exist. There was no real security anywhere. That being said though...I do strongly believe that it is far to easy to be a pirate in EvE. Being a pirate should be a harsh and almost impossible profession. Right now it is a near 0 risk 100% reward profession. Sure you lose your 200 mil ship or whatever but if you do it right you just banked a hauler full of loot worth far more.
Personally I think if you do ANYTHING regarding piracy you should be marked as a pirate for at least a week in which time ANYBODY can kill you with no reprecaution from CONCORD. Enough of this multi-level pirate crap. A pirate is a pirate. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
275
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 16:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Oh look, it's this thread again Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
275
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 16:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I remember the days when CONCORD didn't exist. There was no real security anywhere. That being said though...I do strongly believe that it is far to easy to be a pirate in EvE. Being a pirate should be a harsh and almost impossible profession. Right now it is a near 0 risk 100% reward profession. Sure you lose your 200 mil ship or whatever but if you do it right you just banked a hauler full of loot worth far more.
Personally I think if you do ANYTHING regarding piracy you should be marked as a pirate for at least a week in which time ANYBODY can kill you with no reprecaution from CONCORD. Enough of this multi-level pirate crap. A pirate is a pirate.
OK, personally I think that if your faction standing is -5.00 or lower then you should be a valid war target to members that faction with +1.00 or better. Enough of this multi-level standings crap. A military target is a military target. Being a mercenary for NPC mission agents should be a harsh and almost impossible profession. Right now it is a near 0 risk 100% reward profession.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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CCP Zymurgist
C C P C C P Alliance
142
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 16:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Moved from General Discussion. Zymurgist Community Representative CCP NA, EVE Online Contact Us at http://support.eveonline.com/pages/petitions/createpetition.aspx |
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Kryss Darkdust
Darkdust Industries Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.26 16:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
There is a natural packing order in Eve and while I agree alts break emersion the same alts used to steal your stuff and gank you can be used to avoid getting ganked. So the mechanic helps to prevent getting ganked as well. That said I agree alts are lame but naturally when the whole eve population uses them so must you to break that advantage. Im all for putting in a one client limit and one character per accounts.. Alts and multi boxing breaks all kind of things. |
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