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laksmi2
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Posted - 2011.01.23 10:26:00 -
[61]
Edited by: laksmi2 on 23/01/2011 10:32:22 if u realise that a full 1/3 of online accounts at any given time is a macro u know where ccps interest lies.
hsi shi u are full of crap or ignorant or a troll. grats. |
Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2011.01.23 12:01:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 23/01/2011 12:04:52 I don't care if people are macro mining in hisec or not. I don't care if people fly afk or not. It's just both a stupid way to play EVE. And usually my way to play EVE is to make profit from the stupid.
So what would Hulkageddeon be without the stupid? Less fun. What would be the big Jita highway without people moving billions afk? Less fun.
Macroing is against the EULA. Let them suffer for either that or for their lack of imagination and waste our server capacity. This is what I say. I don't care about them. I just see easy targets and targets that deserved to be destroyed.
You know what happend to a neutral pod in Auga? Militia reported a neutral pod in Auga, 230 km off third station. I answered that this pod has to be destroyed. Many said: but we are Minmatar Militia, we don't shoot on neutrals. I said: there is no neutral pod. Either it's a spy or it's someone so stupid hanging around in a pod in lowsec afk.
Both have to suffer.
When I was entering my ship to fly out and do it myself, a corpmate of mine contacted me: Alica! Alica! Do you see my secstatus?! I got him! I got him! I was first!
Mission accomplished.
Macrominers have to die. Send the stupid back to WoW. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives Beer and Smoke Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.23 16:07:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire You know what happend to a neutral pod in Auga? Militia reported a neutral pod in Auga, 230 km off third station. I answered that this pod has to be destroyed. Many said: but we are Minmatar Militia, we don't shoot on neutrals. I said: there is no neutral pod. Either it's a spy or it's someone so stupid hanging around in a pod in lowsec afk.
Yeah, they could still be an actual neutral FFS. |
Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.23 16:17:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Alica Wildfire
You know what happend to a neutral pod in Auga? Militia reported a neutral pod in Auga, 230 km off third station. I answered that this pod has to be destroyed. Many said: but we are Minmatar Militia, we don't shoot on neutrals. I said: there is no neutral pod. Either it's a spy or it's someone so stupid hanging around in a pod in lowsec afk.
Nice NRDS there. |
Alica Wildfire
Minmatar Federal Investigations Agency
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Posted - 2011.01.23 16:32:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Alica Wildfire on 23/01/2011 16:33:06 Who said we are NRDS? Nobody. We usually don't kill neutrals. But if they begin to camp in a pod one of our main stations they simply ask for being shot. If you move on, militia will not bugger you.
Simple like that.
Well. Most of militia. |
Norjia Blacksteel
Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Renaissance Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.23 17:00:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Akirei Scytale if you want to play the game, you should play the game.
This
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Zephris
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Posted - 2011.01.23 17:42:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Akirei Scytale if you want to play the game, you should play the game.
I am sure sitting there watching a rock spin is a form of playing |
KaarBaak
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.01.23 18:50:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Othran
CCP DO NOT CARE ABOUT BOTTING unless :
a) RMT is involved; b) It is causing serious lag to server (like spamming scan).
...and those that think H'geddon is about killing bots? Just a possible/accidental bonus.
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Elanor Vega
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Posted - 2011.01.23 20:41:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Akirei Scytale if you want to play the game, you should play the game.
+1
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NinjaSpud
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Posted - 2011.01.24 05:54:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Hsi Shih I have been playing off and on since 2004 with mu;multiple accounts and bots have not effected me even in the smallest way.
People who complain about bots are not effected as well or they would not be playing.
Stop complaining about stuff that CCP is already busy in controlling.
Its beyond boring hearing the same topic over and over again for years.
Originally by: Bryg Philomena
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of macros but they don't proliferate this game as much as everyone seems to think. And they certainly aren't destroying it as much as everyone seems to think.
This is kinda along the idea of why I started this thread.
I said it earlier, but I'll say it again. I don't really care about macros....but if they are truly affecting the gameplay, then they have to be delt with.
Is there any proof we can look at that they have a had a legit negative impact? Obviously there is a massive socail impact, people get very fired up about this....but are they really hurting us?
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Rat Mcgee
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Posted - 2011.01.25 14:48:00 -
[71]
Macro miners destroy the economy for real miners. ICE used to be about 125k now its 75k because macro miners sell thier ICE for any price.
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Xe'Cara'eos
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Posted - 2011.01.27 11:51:00 -
[72]
Quote: I promise this isnÆt a troll. I have an honest question and would like a mature, but honest response. Cool I'm relatively new here, but I have spent a good deal of time (when I'm not playing eve) scanning the forums trying to get to know the populous and general demeanor of these so called ôcapsule pilotsö. From an æobservesÆ point of view, I would like to pose a much debated question. HereÆs my question: Why do people hate macro miners? Let me explain my point of viewà You can tell a lot about a game, about how the people who respond to it when they are angry. For example, in the crime and punishment section I found many, many posts expressing anger towards ore thieves. The victim feels robbed, posts angrily about itàand moves on with is eve life. Lets look at pirats. I read another post where a smaller alliance was moving billions of isk worth of station equipment to a null sec system they had recently rented from a larger allianceàduring transport they got caught in a gate camp. The event lost them so much the entire corporation disbanded. The victims were angry, posted their griefà.and moved on with their eve lives. ItÆs safe to say (CCP even admits it) that cheating and robbing people out of their hard earned isk and items is as much a part of the game as anything. (letÆs not forget market scams) àbasically you can do pretty much anything you want in eve. And even if you step on someoneÆs toes, angry posts are sent out, griefers are labeled and players move on. So to reiterate my question: out of all the dirty things and bad behavior that is in eve. Why is it, that the one naughty thing to do, that angers more people than any other topicàis also one of the most passive? Think about itàhas a macroÆer ever stolen anything that you have built/worked for? Have they ever ganked your ship? Have they ever insulted you? What does a macro do that angers people so? Before I continue, I do want to point out that it is against the EULA to use macros, so we all know CCPÆs stance on it. LetÆs face it, it is cheatingàIÆll agree there. And the ones who use macro profit to RMT have been justly banned, I could see how that profit is infringing on CCPÆs domain, they had every right and reason to ban RMTÆs, and IÆm gladàthe last thing we need is to see 500 spam bots in local. (Diablo II is damn near unplayable now cause of RMT and spam bots) That being said, it is by far the least æaggressiveÆ form of cheating someone out ofàanything. The way I see it, macroÆer cheat CCP more than individual players, they exploit an in game design. I have a few theories and I had to ask myself, what are the effects of macro mining? LetÆs start with the obvious:
OK - why do people not mind/maybe even admire in game scamming/ganking/ninja salvaging characters? Because they do it using their brains, they can be outwitted if you work at it/do your h/w before you let that guy into your corp, also - they're probably real people with an eve face, and an eve voice... Macro miners, on the other hand, steal my 'roids, which in itself is fine, but they do it without even being there on the computer, they're typically set up to get the ore type which gives most ISK/m3, and quickly deplete my home system of all the best ore types at the time, so by the time I get on at around 7-8 pm EVE time, all the big isk is gone from mining, these guys can't be outwitted, because they're doing a simple task, and are using a program to do it for them, the closest thing we've got is hulkaggeddon, which unfortunately catches others in it's net. They're doing nothing wrong in game, so can't be fixed in game, but are screwing me over by doing wrong out of game, so they're safe from my fiery, ingame wrath. Oh, and they don't talk, don't abandon wrecks for newbs, wasting them, and thus driving the ORE market down, depleting my income, and the salv market up, increasing my expenditure... That is why I, personally hate bots.
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Quemist
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Posted - 2011.01.27 12:01:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Quemist on 27/01/2011 12:01:07 CCP put in the EULA that it's only illegal if it allows your account to earn more than a human would.
So if the macro logs off for 5 hours a day it's not illegal technically.
This is how every macro user has justified it to me and I have known ALOT of macro users in my day.
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Crucis Cassiopeiae
Amarr PORSCHE AG
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Posted - 2011.01.27 12:14:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae on 27/01/2011 12:15:56
Originally by: Quemist Edited by: Quemist on 27/01/2011 12:01:07 CCP put in the EULA that it's only illegal if it allows your account to earn more than a human would.
So if the macro logs off for 5 hours a day it's not illegal technically.
This is how every macro user has justified it to me and I have known ALOT of macro users in my day.
so... all EVE players get macros and use it only for 5 hours a day per account... and problem solved... NICE... ... but sad... "Everybody's at war with different things... I'm at war with my own heart sometimes" |
Quemist
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Posted - 2011.01.27 12:30:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Crucis Cassiopeiae Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae on 27/01/2011 12:15:56
Originally by: Quemist Edited by: Quemist on 27/01/2011 12:01:07 CCP put in the EULA that it's only illegal if it allows your account to earn more than a human would.
So if the macro logs off for 5 hours a day it's not illegal technically.
This is how every macro user has justified it to me and I have known ALOT of macro users in my day.
so... all EVE players get macros and use it only for 5 hours a day per account... and problem solved... NICE... ... but sad...
Yeah it really takes away from the game. CCP obviously added that stipulation for a reason though. So, CCP = pro botting.
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Optimus Night
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Posted - 2011.01.27 12:38:00 -
[76]
Kill the macros! Kill them all!
They have no right to live in eve!
Wherever you see some macro - report it! Attack it. Blame it in the forums!
Do we have a: "is this a macro?" thread? We could name them all. They can defend if there is any life in them. Otherwise they will be hunted!
Kill dem! Kill dem macros!
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Zuper Zpy
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Posted - 2011.01.27 12:56:00 -
[77]
As I suspected. Directly after reading this post I checked the net for ISK for sale. Then dared ask in forum whether these sites were legitimate. Within a minute the thread was replied to in the negative and locked. Macroers are harming gamers by taking the real dollars from our game developers. CCP need to come up with a system where you can give miners a warning that unless they leave the system within 1 hour you are entitled to kill them. If they leave and return then the count down clock stops. In this way anyone who is using a bot becomes fair game.
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W1rlW1nd
WirlWind
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Posted - 2011.01.27 13:09:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Zuper Zpy ... CCP need to come up with a system where you can give miners a warning that unless they leave the system within 1 hour you are entitled to kill them. If they leave and return then the count down clock stops. In this way anyone who is using a bot becomes fair game.
...and a bot couldn't leave and then come back in one hour when it's safe? they already can do that for crying out loud.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.01.27 13:09:00 -
[79]
Originally by: NinjaSpud Think about itàhas a macroÆer ever stolen anything that you have built/worked for? Have they ever ganked your ship? Have they ever insulted you? What does a macro do that angers people so?
Players funded by macro are near impossible to fight on an equal footing, the shape of null sec empires is pretty much defined by the number of SC's the bots can produce. The primary affect of this is that smaller alliances are valueless to the power blocks, a player corp is useless in isk generating terms compared to a bot corp.
So to answer your question macroers have not just ganked peoples ships but are so good at it that small to medium alliances are degraded to the point of being pets, if being pushed around so your master can keep his bot farms running isn't an insult then I don't know what is.
Further down the food chain even larger numbers of people are affected, bots are rampant right through the manufacturing and trade sectors, just try setting a ferrogel order in Jita if you don't believe me. This pushes people away from all forms of industry, not just mining.
Then there's printing money, ratting bots are a huge isk faucet which in a free market economy is the same as printing money, look up Weimar Germany or modern day Zimbabwe if you don't know why this is bad.
In eve aggression always comes down to isk, as such macros are probably the single most aggressive thing in the game.
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Zuper Zpy
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Posted - 2011.01.27 13:20:00 -
[80]
Originally by: yani dumyat
Originally by: NinjaSpud Think about itàhas a macroÆer ever stolen anything that you have built/worked for? Have they ever ganked your ship? Have they ever insulted you? What does a macro do that angers people so?
Players funded by macro are near impossible to fight on an equal footing, the shape of null sec empires is pretty much defined by the number of SC's the bots can produce. The primary affect of this is that smaller alliances are valueless to the power blocks, a player corp is useless in isk generating terms compared to a bot corp.
So to answer your question macroers have not just ganked peoples ships but are so good at it that small to medium alliances are degraded to the point of being pets, if being pushed around so your master can keep his bot farms running isn't an insult then I don't know what is.
Further down the food chain even larger numbers of people are affected, bots are rampant right through the manufacturing and trade sectors, just try setting a ferrogel order in Jita if you don't believe me. This pushes people away from all forms of industry, not just mining.
Then there's printing money, ratting bots are a huge isk faucet which in a free market economy is the same as printing money, look up Weimar Germany or modern day Zimbabwe if you don't know why this is bad.
In eve aggression always comes down to isk, as such macros are probably the single most aggressive thing in the game.
Then basically what you are saying is that eve is controlled by a very few. Do you think that they would be the ones selling ISK on the internet? I would have thought that CCP could tell who was doing all the dealing just by its game logs which should then make them look closer at the activities of those characters in particular. Unless of course it was...........I'm not even going to dare to say it.
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Optimus Night
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Posted - 2011.01.27 13:21:00 -
[81]
First step could be to change NPC corp membership. Most macros hide in them. You should be able to be only 30 days(or so..) a year in a npc corp.
This would give the power to capsulers to solve a big part of this problem by themselves.
Macro bots become a bigger issue. If CCP doesnt do anything really usefull to solve this problem players will get frustrated.
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ROFLCOPTER SOISOISOI
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Posted - 2011.01.27 13:24:00 -
[82]
Originally by: rock crawlermne
c.Keep in mind, most people would agree that the majority of macroÆers are in high sec. is it possible to assume that as the price of high sec minerals drop, the price of Null sec minerals increase as more ships are being built, thus more null sec mins are being purchased? Real Null-sec miners make more money?
No, basically what happens (in theory) is the price of null sec minerals goes up beyond a certain point and all the Meta 1 - 3 junk (bye bye 425mm Compressed Coil Guns) that gets spat out of mission rats is reprocessed. If the price spikes high enough then more common Meta 4 gets thrown in the re-processor as well.
Everyone with sufficient stock gets rich, those with good refine skills get richer. Prices go back down.
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Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2011.01.27 13:29:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Vincent Athena
Macro miners buy PLEX with isk, thus pushing the isk price of a PLEX up. Because of macro miners, the hours I have to mine in order to buy a PLEX increases.
Most of the PLEX price increases I've seen are around the times of CCP going "Hey, we just kicked x macro's out the game".
Frankly, the bots PLEXing drove demand up and the price per unit down.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.01.27 13:39:00 -
[84]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 27/01/2011 13:43:41
Originally by: Zuper Zpy
Then basically what you are saying is that eve is controlled by a very few. Do you think that they would be the ones selling ISK on the internet? I would have thought that CCP could tell who was doing all the dealing just by its game logs which should then make them look closer at the activities of those characters in particular. Unless of course it was...........I'm not even going to dare to say it.
Yes the biggest null empires are controlled by a fairly small number of people. CCP do their best to stamp out RMT but have a blind eye policy towards bots who are building titans rather than selling ISK for real money.
The worst punishment a botter can expect from CCP is a slap on the wrist and a 3 day ban. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
Edit - Bot programmes are also used for farming people's account details and stealing ISK from the little man, if anyone's read the previous paragraph and decided to find themselves a bot for some income, remember that you're dealing with some nasty characters who won't think twice about ripping off your credit card or clearing out your eve account.
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ROFLCOPTER SOISOISOI
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Posted - 2011.01.27 14:19:00 -
[85]
Originally by: yani dumyat
Edit - Bot programmes are also used for farming people's account details and stealing ISK from the little man, if anyone's read the previous paragraph and decided to find themselves a bot for some income, remember that you're dealing with some nasty characters who won't think twice about ripping off your credit card or clearing out your eve account.
Ya see that's what everyone keeps saying. ISK for cash and bot sellers will steal your account details. Now, I'm sure some shady character would do that. On the other hand if you do that you don't get repeat custom and it's a bit of a faff rebranding yourself every month or so to dodge the impact.
Both of the bot's I've investigated actually had "I'm farking paranoid" modes where you told the software you'd log in manually. There was no way it could steal details; I also sat poking at them with a packet sniffer... they didn't transmit anything.
So whilst there are shady characters out there and I've no doubt some of the account stealers hide as bots... I suspect the majority of vendors are legit; well as legit as such things can be.
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Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2011.01.27 14:28:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Optimus Night First step could be to change NPC corp membership. Most macros hide in them. You should be able to be only 30 days(or so..) a year in a npc corp.
This would give the power to capsulers to solve a big part of this problem by themselves.
Macro bots become a bigger issue. If CCP doesnt do anything really usefull to solve this problem players will get frustrated.
Macro's only use npc corps because its convenient. If it becomes more convenient to bounce in and out of 1 man band player corps they'll do so.
Remember: Bots aren't themselves intelligent, but they can read the screen and react to what they 'see'. Like your hypothetical war deccing.
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Liorah
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Posted - 2011.01.27 14:50:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Sarina Berghil If a bot is considered needed in a specific game, the real issue is probably game design or player mentality. The solution is not to use a bot but to change the game to make it playable by humans.
Agreed: If one can easily bot your game, your game is broken.
I would take it one step further to say that not only do you re-visit existing mechanics (which, honestly, we know will never happen), but you also refrain from introducing new content that is so tedious and repetitive that it just screams "Bot Me Baybee!"
Just because the goal of this game is to be a "simulation", doesn't mean you need to make it any less fun.
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Cailais
Amarr Ukomi Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.27 14:52:00 -
[88]
Personally I want to play eve with, and against, other players - not automated bots. That's why I object to there use.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Liorah
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Posted - 2011.01.27 14:58:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Zuper Zpy I would have thought that CCP could tell who was doing all the dealing just by its game logs
"The logs show nothing. Working as intended."
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Zuper Zpy
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Posted - 2011.01.27 15:25:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Liorah
Originally by: Zuper Zpy I would have thought that CCP could tell who was doing all the dealing just by its game logs
"The logs show nothing. Working as intended."
With all the hardware, software and programmers, they could find out anything they wanted. Let's face it, the whole system is of their creation. What I think it boils down to is that so much money passes through their hands with account fees, the amount stolen by ISK dealers is only a tiny percentage at this point in time Much the same way stores lose a small percentage to theft, it is factored back into the price of the goods to cover it.
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