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Axel Jangorai	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:06:00 - [151] Edited by: Axel Jangorai on 27/01/2011 09:06:19 Why make morality a factor in a game which is meant to be played and not lived? If you do an "act" like stealing/pvp for the hell of it and is not a targetted act, and the other person gets butthurt, its their issue. Edit: Wrong character ftw Sniped
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:26:00 - [152] Originally by: Bumblefck Originally by: Charles Dexter Ward you people You ****ing racist Hurrr What do you mean you people? Pod
lord xavier K-Tech Research	Posted - 2011.01.27 14:48:00 - [153] Originally by: Foxgguy2001 Originally by: lord xavier Immoral is all based on your beliefs. Nihilism 4TW! You moral skeptics...just don't tell me your an expressivist...the last thing I want to hear about is your *feelings* on the issue. ;) I'm a boy and I will cry if I want too! To be serious on the subject though. It really is all what people find acceptable. People feel that scamming, pirating, griefing whatever are acceptable since this is just a video game. What do you think is acceptable in this video game? ---------------------------------- Biomass is free (of) Eve4life!
Syndryna	Posted - 2011.01.28 17:02:00 - [154] "Good" and "evil" as objective concepts. Lulz.
Malik77 Rape of Virtue	Posted - 2011.01.28 17:46:00 - [155] Lets break down the levels of friendship: Random Scrb - Steal his money Alliance/Corpmate - Burn his house down and steal his money RL Frieds - Eat his wife, burn his house down, and steal his money I do it for the lulz!
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2011.01.28 18:28:00 - [156] Originally by: Syndryna "Good" and "evil" as objective concepts. Lulz. Logic is not welcome in this thread, now go put your hat on and sit in the corner. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen.
Onibrak Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 10:23:00 - [157] Originally by: Charles Dexter Ward I refuse to believe that you people can separate your human emotions from the game. This does not include infiltrating a corp knowing all too well what you are about to do. I, personally, cannot separate my emotions from this game. Regardless of how it happens, smashing or stealing someone's hard earned spacebucks makes me giggle like a school girl every time. My wife gives me weird looks.
Marhaba	Posted - 2011.01.30 19:09:00 - [158] For me, morals don't really come into play, it's pure hedonism. There is a group of people I fly around with that I would never even consider ripping off. If one of them let me borrow 60 billion isk, I'd pay it back. Not because of morality, but because playing with them enhances my own experience in the game. My time spent playing EVE is made more enjoyable by their presence. If I were to rip any of them off, the enjoyment from the isk gained would never outweigh the loss of enjoyment of their company.
Jebediah Shaft	Posted - 2011.01.31 11:03:00 - [159] I read something the other day. Made me think. Here ya go: "If the internet is a microscope peering into the human psyche, MMOs are like a really interesting piece of pond-scum on the slide."
Ameena Rosa	Posted - 2011.01.31 16:00:00 - [160] And this game is rated "TEEN"... I would let my son play God of War 3 with less to care about than this about morals and stuff, at least there the actor is doing all the bad things, not your alter self...

Syndryna	Posted - 2011.01.31 16:08:00 - [161] Originally by: Misanth Logic is not welcome in this thread, now go put your hat on and sit in the corner. True, this IS C&P after all.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2011.01.31 19:00:00 - [162] Originally by: De'Veldrin Some of us bring our own moral code with us to Eve. Some of us don't. Most of us are aware of the social environment of this game and don't ever risk assets we care about losing, whether that's putting isk/time into a corporate asset or placing our **** where a CEO can lock it down using permissions and such. We also tend to carefully line up personal loyalty with economic loyalty, so that a ceo or other asset holder betraying us is against their economic interest... usually by keeping tabs on alts and maintaining basic intelligence on friends as well as enemies. There are people that I can make exceptions for (RL friends) but in general you have to be aware that you're playing a giant game of Munchkin with the internet. Moral code or not, if you don't take steps to guard your back you kind of fail at the game. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
Zoom Sanna	Posted - 2011.01.31 22:29:00 - [163] Originally by: Lost Greybeard There are people that I can make exceptions for (RL friends) but in general you have to be aware that you're playing a giant game of Munchkin with the internet. Moral code or not, if you don't take steps to guard your back you kind of fail at the game. If you don't take steps to guard your back you kind of fail at the internet.
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.02.01 02:46:00 - [164] Why is this thread still going? It's more like a piece of string than thread...
Alotta Baggage Amarr Imperial Manufactorum Armada Assail	Posted - 2011.02.01 03:31:00 - [165] Originally by: Headerman Why is this thread still going? It's more like a piece of string than thread... We're trying to make a very long piece of string to bring Cat O'Ninetails back Originally by: Magnus Andronicus ur character looks like a f***ing clown dude.
Ehranavaar	Posted - 2011.02.01 16:30:00 - [166] thing is if you want to really know what a person is like you simply place them in a situation where they are anonymous like eve. you then get to see what kinds of stuff they are willing to do when there are no consequences to their actions. couple good psych studies out there on this sort of thing.
Aurora IV	Posted - 2011.02.02 02:14:00 - [167] Originally by: Marhaba For me, morals don't really come into play, it's pure hedonism. There is a group of people I fly around with that I would never even consider ripping off. If one of them let me borrow 60 billion isk, I'd pay it back. Not because of morality, but because playing with them enhances my own experience in the game. My time spent playing EVE is made more enjoyable by their presence. If I were to rip any of them off, the enjoyment from the isk gained would never outweigh the loss of enjoyment of their company. This is easily the best answer in the whole thread. Only this kind of self-serving morality can exist in a game where nothing matters besides enjoyment.
VolatileOne	Posted - 2011.02.02 06:31:00 - [168] Originally by: Aurora IV This is easily the best answer in the whole thread. Only this kind of self-serving morality can exist in a game where nothing matters besides [my] enjoyment. the error in your logic
Pod Amarr	Posted - 2011.02.02 11:25:00 - [169] Originally by: Helicity Boson oh look! another thread trying to equate in game behaviour with real life personalities. While it is not exact copy it gives pretty much an idea of a personality. That is what the person would like to be but in real life there is consequences. Pod
TomHorn Caldari Horn and Brothers	Posted - 2011.02.02 15:31:00 - [170] Amarr terrorists attack funeral http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK3FciQi67M Details of the gathering can be found here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1458296

Zey Nadar Gallente Unknown Soldiers Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.02.25 10:13:00 - [171] Edited by: Zey Nadar on 25/02/2011 10:14:40 Originally by: Foxgguy2001 Originally by: Zey Nadar Edited by: Zey Nadar on 23/01/2011 16:34:13 Originally by: Foxgguy2001 Originally by: Mirchuska I don't know where you get the notion that morality is subjective... Morality is subjective. Proof of this can be acquired simply on the basis that peoples view of what is moral is different. People who post in this thread have different notions of morality, therefore morality is subjective. You are merely preaching that your own view is correct one. Like most everyone else who has ever lived. No I'm simply saying that moral right and wrong exist independent of the individualFs motives or circumstances and that in today's connected world we are in a better position than ever to have the ability to rationally deduce whether an action is moral or immoral. What you are in effect stating is that, if you were to be ransomed at a gate, or have your car stolen by a thief... 'wrong or immoral' applies only to you as the victim, where-as it does not apply in the same manner to the pirate or thief becuase they simply may not subscribe to your beliefs of what is right and wrong. No, Im saying that contest of moral or immoral is a logical fallacy. Moral concepts are subjective, not absolute. Nothing to do with logic, everything to do with your personal emotions. What I say is in direct confrontation of what you are saying. World history is filled with attempts to logically justify subjective concepts, and they are all equally wrong.
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.02.25 14:39:00 - [172] personally i wouldn't trust person in RL who i know is a griefer in online game. Reason is simple. RL is a game where you play with people. online game is a game where you play with people. Do you see any difference? Me don't. Second. Most people say "game EULA allows it". Okey. Have you seen EULA of RL? Me don't. So i can say: "i can do anything i want in RL just because absence of EULA allows it". And many of griefs in RL will be not payd my police and law. So you agree to be victim of griefs in RL? Me don't. Personally i don't like to be bad guy in RL. Simply because i don't like bad guys. And i really don't see any reasons why online game (you play with people as i said before) should be different. And yes. I see link before online gaming and RL. If you are griefer in online game so i suppose you are not griefer in RL just because of police, yea?
Daphne Q Our Own Pirate Society	Posted - 2011.02.25 14:53:00 - [173] I am a very moral person in RL, I would not think og cheating or stealing or "griefing in RL. EVE is different though. You see, I do not consider some arrangement of bits in the EVE server database that we all agree is a 1 bil isk spaceship to be even remotely similar to my neighbor's car, house, or bank account. But in EVE? When we started playing an open PvP game with few rules, we all assumed a risk. Nothing is sacred, and if I, either alone or acting with friends, can move my arrangement of bits into position near that 1 bil isk arrangement of bits, I will make every effort to destroy it. No guilt, no remorse, just the understanding that I have played a game called EVE. If the owner of those destroyed bits, or his friends, want to come after me or me and my friends, more power to them. That is how the game of EVE is played. In RL, there is an expectation of civility between people. In EVE, if you have such an expectation, you will be sorely disappointed, and rightly so. You're playing the wrong game. --- They send out a wardec in order to fight. Then they dock up in station paralyzed by fright. - somebody
Mighty Dread Minmatar	Posted - 2011.02.25 16:17:00 - [174] As capsuleers you are immortal, all your ingame stuff can be replaced, there are always opportunities to build and rebuild wealth so at the end of the day what is there to value other than the moral and ethics you bring to the game? What is there to value beyond the friendships you make ingame? Unfortunately EVE has garnered a reputation in the MMO community as being a depository of anti-social types, misanthropes, those who seemingly have nothing better to do than to extend their misery upon others. CCP has of course embraced this about their game, reveling in being a socially savage MMO. Of course not all who come to EVE are maladjusted, or gold farmers for that matter, there are many who come to EVE because they want to play a Sci-Fi themed MMO and make friends along the way. Why, I've even encountered pirates with a healthy mental/emotional disposition. But yeah, not unlike Lord of the Flies, if you give people the space to degenerate some will sink to the lowest depths they can. At the end of the day the line you wont cross speaks of your character, I think perhaps both in and out of game.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2011.02.25 17:32:00 - [175] Originally by: Joe Phoenix I hold myself in high moral standing and I am proud of that. That's great, now back to the meme bin with you ?
Bjron	Posted - 2011.02.25 19:08:00 - [176] Originally by: Toilarmius Originally by: Charles Dexter Ward What are your thoughts about this? Choose the one that doesn't belong: Eve Online Scamming Moral Behavior Internet Spaceshipzzz Game Moral Behavior, not really in eve. Game, Internet Spaceshipzzz is srs bizz, not a game
Karl Planck Walt Disney Productions	Posted - 2011.02.25 19:55:00 - [177] Ah, good to see this thread is alive an kicking again lol. I've got a new outlook on this. Good point above on the immortality of your character. Morality runs on new grounds with that one as most moral philosophies don't tread there too often. SOooooo, about these morals. Most of the posts here seem to run along the line that if you a lying to people on the pc or misusing their trust then we are in the only realm where morals play a role. This means we are talking about metagaming for the most part. People build up "real" trust with real people and misuse it for their own good. But, why don't we take this to the other extreme? Would you let your C.E.O. babysit your kid or younger sibling? If you were going out of town and you knew one of your corpies that you have flown with for years lives in state, would you ask him to house sit? Just on the fact that you trust them with your shiz in game is that enough to entrust them with your out of game materials? HELL NO, and I'll tell you why, because the trust that you have built up is in the context of a game and the association of that trust doesn't stray too far from it. You wouldn't give out your credit card or job contact or w/e because the trust you are giving out isn't REAL trust. But when you get screwed in the game, NOW its a big deal. NOW we've broken moral codes. At best people who cross these lines can be charged guilty of being self serving, which, in a game that you play by yourself (at least most of the time people play this alone at the PC) isn't too much of a shocker. Leaving your morals at the door it a large option in this game. best to be aware of it and not invest too much trust into your internet homeboys. ------------------------------------------------- Don't debate with morons. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Cynimar	Posted - 2011.02.26 00:05:00 - [178] I don't know if it has been mentioned, form does not negate content... in my humble opinion. Morality or ethical behavior is simply that. Chances are people that perform immoral acts in the game they will perform those acts in RL. The thin line Dexter is looking for may not exist because a moral standard is a behavior that is acceptable within a social group. That is to say that a criminal code can be a moral code. Obviously we bring to the game what we have learned in life and these different groups are in a very small sandbox, so if a line appears, chances are that the conflict is about a difference in belief. Scamming a friend for money? My personal belief would be that you are a scum sucking bottom dweller. I would not trust you period. You can argue that this is what the game is about... but nothing has changed. Your still a scum sucking bottom dweller. On the other hand the scum sucking bottom dweller is laughing all the way to the bank with pats on the back from others that believe the appropriation of funds was well done. Then again... they all would probably do exactly the same thing to this person in a city second. And maybe our thief is okay with that, because it is morally acceptable. Be careful out there... its a hard world.
Suiginryou Hitaiga Caldari	Posted - 2011.02.26 00:19:00 - [179] Edited by: Suiginryou Hitaiga on 26/02/2011 00:21:48 Cynimar, people often mix morals and ethics. The difference is that first is relative, and the second is absolute. What eve society lacks is not the moral code - there's plenty of that - but the ethics set. But it only shows that most of the people are naturally unethical and will bow to any moral code imposed on them for anything tangible in reward. Among several codes, they will naturally choose the one most rewarding and easiest to follow.
Foxgguy2001 Gallente Second Hand Lions Redneck Rage	Posted - 2011.02.26 05:05:00 - [180] Originally by: Zey Nadar No, Im saying that contest of moral vs immoral is a logical fallacy. Moral concepts are subjective, not absolute. Nothing to do with logic, everything to do with your personal emotions. What I say is in direct confrontation of what you are saying. World history is filled with attempts to logically justify subjective concepts, and they are all equally wrong. We are at odds because I do not agree with moral subjectivism`moral subjectivism is tantamount to everyone having their own version of the game tletFs pretendv`and then making the logical leap from tI believev or tI wantv to tI shouldv or tI should notv...to say that because another person or society is of the opinion tI believe all Jews should diev and then make the logical leap to tall Jews ought to diev simply doesnFt mean all Jews should die. Or that a capsuleer is of the desire or belief tX Should give me all his stuffv does not mean tX is morally obligated to give me all his stuff.v It is not subjective if it influences actions that effect the current state of the world.



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