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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
96
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Posted - 2011.09.26 19:10:00 -
[61] - Quote
Nick Bete wrote:I know that CCP bashing is the new forum sport but, how about using a little common sense
You must be new to the internet if you think that people will have a homogeneous consensus on what is right and wrong. Common sense doesn't apply on the internet and therefor somethings need to clearly defined for most.
What CCP has done in the past is leave "grey areas" that coarse of action is taken at a case to case basis. While this has "somewhat" worked in the past, primarily due to Eve's smallish player base, this really won't work now. Considering the fact that some exploits could have wide spread implications due to Eve being single sharded. |
Barakkus
731
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Posted - 2011.09.26 19:22:00 -
[62] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:On a side note, point 10 (putting your own videos onto the Screen in the Captains Quarters) just has been addressed in a new dev blog. As for the rest, working on it.
NICE.
p/r0nz fpr everyonez! |
Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
12
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Posted - 2011.09.27 01:26:00 -
[63] - Quote
Quote:As for the rest, working on it.
Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the next bit |
Ildryn
X Inc.
14
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Posted - 2011.09.27 01:57:00 -
[64] - Quote
Lithalnas wrote: This is what is commonly known about your list o stuff that you want to know about. The GMs can chime in it things have been changed or have always been a bit fuzzy.
8) "Hacking" local chat to make you not appear on other people's local channel The monkeysphere hack is considered an exploit
Unless of course you are Monkeysphere....then you are not banned and released. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
52
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Posted - 2011.09.27 02:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Othran wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:So what you're saying is that having a centralized listing of known exploits and other nefarious activities which are not allowed and any other definitive communication to that extent would tie CCP's hands, from a PR standpoint, so that you wouldn't be able to apply your rules with the bias that CCP does without having the rest of the player base cry foul while pointing out the specific violations to which you could no longer legitimately deny or ignore? No, he's saying it'd cost money to fix and that's not happening anytime soon. Therefore a list of exploits (not dealt with - no devs available) would make matters worse for GMs. tl;dr emogoths and dusties get the resources
No, I'm fairly certain he said, and I'll paraphrase, that he didn't want to tie his hands with rules. This, of course, leaves the status quo intact. Honestly, who wants to do tie their own hands with fairness? It's always nice to tell one person that they were banned due to a clear case of abuse or exploitation and then later tell the masses why "so and so" wasn't banned for the same offense by stating that there are not black and white definitions of such an abuse or exploit....especially when the offender is a friend of a GM. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
sukmanobov
The Priesthood The 0rphanage
3
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Posted - 2011.09.27 03:25:00 -
[66] - Quote
Quote:8) "Hacking" local chat to make you not appear on other people's local channel 9) can baiting in newbie systems 10) Modifying non-executable EVE data to make decorative changes to EVE, such as getting the TV to play customized videos. 11) Market cache scraping to automatically collect,collate and upload market data.
8 - I for one would love to know how to do this!
9 - Who cares? just ban naming of cans
10 - Well i'd love to watch BBC-iPlayer on my CQ its about the only that might make uncheck the "don't show CQ" botton First thing i did when i got CQ was look at at how hot my female chars were once i got past that. I never used it again
11 - Market cache? lol if i makes eve lag then get rid of it.
12 - Kill jita / amarr / rens local chats pls
13 - Can you please give a 7day timer on Secure Cargo containers im sick of "happy new year" can in hek and its surrounding brothers. that place really is the Junk yard for useless Dead Cans. either that or im gonna go global on that thing one day. |
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GM Karidor
Game Masters C C P Alliance
17
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Posted - 2011.09.27 11:40:00 -
[67] - Quote
[quote=sukmanobov]Quote:8) "Hacking" local chat to make you not appear on other people's local channel 13 - Can you please give a 7day timer on Secure Cargo containers im sick of "happy new year" can in hek and its surrounding brothers. that place really is the Junk yard for useless Dead Cans. either that or im gonna go global on that thing one day.
If a Secure Cargo Container stays around for more than 30 days, then someone is taking care of it by accessing it regularly. Any Secure Container that has not been accessed in the past 30 days and is not nearby an active POS will be removed, and that's been the case for quite a long time already. GM Karidor | Senior Game Master |
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Zey Nadar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.09.27 14:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote: 2. If its an exploit, making it public knowledge is absolutely bad.
I guess that is why people want to know whether something is an exploit or not. |
sukmanobov
The Priesthood The 0rphanage
3
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Posted - 2011.09.28 02:41:00 -
[69] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:[quote=sukmanobov] Quote:8) "Hacking" local chat to make you not appear on other people's local channel 13 - Can you please give a 7day timer on Secure Cargo containers im sick of "happy new year" can in hek and its surrounding brothers. that place really is the Junk yard for useless Dead Cans. either that or im gonna go global on that thing one day. If a Secure Cargo Container stays around for more than 30 days, then someone is taking care of it by accessing it regularly. Any Secure Container that has not been accessed in the past 30 days and is not nearby an active POS will be removed, and that's been the case for quite a long time already.
thanks for the reply Karidor
13. Either that of ban the use of "Secure cans" at NPC based stations. Normal jet cans disapear in a hour or so. The other ones serve no purpose except to advertise corp recruitment "Some silly mining corp, crapy pvp corp is recruiting player made bunnie wabbits - http://insertstupidlinkhere.com". Tbh thats what the forums are for or if you wish to pay for it - thats what the news boards are for. Secure cans will have to loaded when you reboot TQ and are a waste resource on the server unless there doing what they were intended for i.e. Sticking your ore in it at belts storing stuff at POS's etc.. |
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GM Karidor
Game Masters C C P Alliance
18
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Posted - 2011.09.29 14:30:00 -
[70] - Quote
Thank you all for the patience, this took a tad bit longer than I anticipated. But with no further ado, here is the current situation in regards to the points brought up in the original post:
1) Keyboard macros a'la the G15 Logitech keyboard This really depends on the exact useof those keyboard macros. General guideline: Automating gameplay: bad. Turning on all your hardeners with one key press: fine
The essence of the EULA is to prevent cheating. Cheating is defined currently by the EULA as automating gameplay to an extent that is not achievable by a human being. A player usinga macro to achieve (or sustain) automated gameplay will be at risk for warning or more severe actions.
2) Loggoffski/loggonski Not an exploit at all, and never has been. We wonGÇÖt punish people for logging out of and into the game (even if they happen to log in all at about the same time and location that happens to be inconvenient for you).
3) Corp hopping to evade war decs No longer an exploit, with the exception of pilots changing corps while in space AND online (i.e. to"surprise" war targets).
4) Corp recycling to evade war decs Not an exploit. Players are free to close and recreate corporations as they see fit due to the inconveniences usually involved in closing down a corp and the (miniscule) costs of founding a new one.
5) Alt recycling While players are free to delete characters as they see fit, excessive recycling of characters not permitted and disciplinary actions will be decided on a case by case basis. General guideline: donGÇÖt do it to avoid consequences within game mechanics.
6) Alliance hopping to evade war decs. Not an exploit per se, but excessively doing so will result in a warning. DonGÇÖt want the risk of wars being declared on you? Stay in NPC corps. Also see the link in point 7.
7) Using alt corps to artificially inflate the cost of war decs Not an exploit due to cost involved and lack of other means to shield one self from constant war decs. That is, if you do apply the wars directly to the entity you want to drive up the war costs for. Declaring cheap wars on a corp that then joins up the alliance you want to GÇ£shieldGÇ¥ is considered an exploit as per the this notification (which still is the case), and you will get in trouble for doing that.
8) "Hacking" local chat to make you not appear on other people's local channel Definite Exploit, but should be fixed. Please report any new occurrences immediately.
9) Can baiting in newbie systems This is explicitly listed here. Also see this list of what we consider "Rookie Systems".
10) Modifying non-executable EVE data to make decorative changes to EVE, such as getting the TV to play customized videos. Modifying any client files is considered a EULA violation. However, adding Videos to play in the CQ is possible without modifying anything, as described in CCP Optimals Dev Blog.
11) Market cache scraping to automatically collect, collate and upload market data. As long as the IGB-specific procedure to open the market window for a specific item (and thus having the client creating cache data for that item) exists, you can use it. Keep in mind, though, that changes to this may happen and this procedure may stop working at any time. Also, reading and evaluating the clients cache data with third party tools is permitted, however modifying cache files used by the client is not and falls under modification of client files.
Those policies are, at this point, unlikely to change anytime soon, but yes, we may revise them should we deem it necessary.
GM Karidor | Senior Game Master |
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Nyio
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
132
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Posted - 2011.09.29 14:35:00 -
[71] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote: 11) Market cache scraping to automatically collect, collate and upload market data. As long as the IGB-specific procedure to open the market window for a specific item (and thus having the client creating cache data for that item) exists, you can use it. Keep in mind, though, that changes to this may happen and this procedure may stop working at any time. Also, reading and evaluating the clients cache data with third party tools is permitted, however modifying cache files used by the client is not and falls under modification of client files.
So this means that we have a clear answer that using programs like EVE Mentat is ok then?
Features & Ideas Discussion: Agent Finder, Black Holes Needs a banner here.. |
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GM Karidor
Game Masters C C P Alliance
19
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Posted - 2011.09.29 14:58:00 -
[72] - Quote
sukmanobov wrote:13. Either that of ban the use of "Secure cans" at NPC based stations. Normal jet cans disapear in a hour or so. The other ones serve no purpose except to advertise corp recruitment "Some silly mining corp, crapy pvp corp is recruiting player made bunnie wabbits - http://insertstupidlinkhere.com". Tbh thats what the forums are for or if you wish to pay for it - thats what the news boards are for. Secure cans will have to loaded when you reboot TQ and are a waste resource on the server unless there doing what they were intended for i.e. Sticking your ore in it at belts storing stuff at POS's etc..
One could always declare war on the owners and remove the containers forcefully.
However, if there are so many around that they majorly affect client loading, feel free to report that and we will have a look. If the number of containers is indeed to high, then we may remove them. Keep in mind, though, that there is no "X amount of containers" for this and it is highly dependent on the situation, so don't be disappointed if we don't act when we disagree with you in reagards to the effect the containers have on the area. GM Karidor | Senior Game Master |
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GM Karidor
Game Masters C C P Alliance
19
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Posted - 2011.09.29 15:02:00 -
[73] - Quote
Nyio wrote:GM Karidor wrote: 11) Market cache scraping to automatically collect, collate and upload market data. As long as the IGB-specific procedure to open the market window for a specific item (and thus having the client creating cache data for that item) exists, you can use it. Keep in mind, though, that changes to this may happen and this procedure may stop working at any time. Also, reading and evaluating the clients cache data with third party tools is permitted, however modifying cache files used by the client is not and falls under modification of client files.
So this means that we have a clear answer that using programs like EVE Mentat is ok then?
Not exactly familiar with EVE Mentat at this point, so I can't comment on this specific program, really. But if it does nothing more than what's been said in reply to point 11 and doesn't feed back into the client (such as changing orders for you automatically in response to this data), then it should be fine. GM Karidor | Senior Game Master |
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
176
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Posted - 2011.09.29 15:05:00 -
[74] - Quote
Thanks for the dedication and very informative post. Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
132
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Posted - 2011.09.29 15:07:00 -
[75] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:Nyio wrote:GM Karidor wrote: 11) Market cache scraping to automatically collect, collate and upload market data. As long as the IGB-specific procedure to open the market window for a specific item (and thus having the client creating cache data for that item) exists, you can use it. Keep in mind, though, that changes to this may happen and this procedure may stop working at any time. Also, reading and evaluating the clients cache data with third party tools is permitted, however modifying cache files used by the client is not and falls under modification of client files.
So this means that we have a clear answer that using programs like EVE Mentat is ok then? Not exactly familiar with EVE Mentat at this point, so I can't comment on this specific program, really. But if it does nothing more than what's been said in reply to point 11 and doesn't feed back into the client (such as changing orders for you automatically in response to this data), then it should be fine.
Well I know there was some "yahoo" about EVE Mentat on the old forums, but from what I understand it should be ok to use.. On a side note about EVE Mentat: I've tried it but then felt it was almost more work with all market orders, so I ended up going old style. Features & Ideas Discussion: Agent Finder, Black Holes Needs a banner here.. |
Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
65
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Posted - 2011.09.30 04:17:00 -
[76] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:Thank you all for the patience, this took a tad bit longer than I anticipated. But with no further ado, here is the current situation in regards to the points brought up in the original post: 1) Keyboard macros a'la the G15 Logitech keyboardThis really depends on the exact useof those keyboard macros. General guideline: Automating gameplay: bad. Turning on all your hardeners with one key press: fine The essence of the EULA is to prevent cheating. Cheating is defined currently by the EULA as automating gameplay to an extent that is not achievable by a human being. A player usinga macro to achieve (or sustain) automated gameplay will be at risk for warning or more severe actions. 2) Loggoffski/loggonskiNot an exploit at all, and never has been. We wonGÇÖt punish people for logging out of and into the game (even if they happen to log in all at about the same time and location that happens to be inconvenient for you). 3) Corp hopping to evade war decsNo longer an exploit, with the exception of pilots changing corps while in space AND online (i.e. to"surprise" war targets). 4) Corp recycling to evade war decsNot an exploit. Players are free to close and recreate corporations as they see fit due to the inconveniences usually involved in closing down a corp and the (miniscule) costs of founding a new one. 5) Alt recyclingWhile players are free to delete characters as they see fit, excessive recycling of characters not permitted and disciplinary actions will be decided on a case by case basis. General guideline: donGÇÖt do it to avoid consequences within game mechanics. 6) Alliance hopping to evade war decs.Not an exploit per se, but excessively doing so will result in a warning. DonGÇÖt want the risk of wars being declared on you? Stay in NPC corps. Also see the link in point 7. 7) Using alt corps to artificially inflate the cost of war decsNot an exploit due to cost involved and lack of other means to shield one self from constant war decs. That is, if you do apply the wars directly to the entity you want to drive up the war costs for. Declaring cheap wars on a corp that then joins up the alliance you want to GÇ£shieldGÇ¥ is considered an exploit as per the this notification (which still is the case), and you will get in trouble for doing that. 8) "Hacking" local chat to make you not appear on other people's local channelDefinite Exploit, but should be fixed. Please report any new occurrences immediately. 9) Can baiting in newbie systemsThis is explicitly listed here. Also see this list of what we consider "Rookie Systems". 10) Modifying non-executable EVE data to make decorative changes to EVE, such as getting the TV to play customized videos.Modifying any client files is considered a EULA violation. However, adding Videos to play in the CQ is possible without modifying anything, as described in CCP Optimals Dev Blog. 11) Market cache scraping to automatically collect, collate and upload market data.As long as the IGB-specific procedure to open the market window for a specific item (and thus having the client creating cache data for that item) exists, you can use it. Keep in mind, though, that changes to this may happen and this procedure may stop working at any time. Also, reading and evaluating the clients cache data with third party tools is permitted, however modifying cache files used by the client is not and falls under modification of client files. Those policies are, at this point, unlikely to change anytime soon, but yes, we may revise them should we deem it necessary.
Thank you for the answers GM Karidor. However, I would like to reiterate the purpose of my OP: to consolidate this information in some sort of official manner so that this information stays readily available for the future generations of EVE Players. |
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GM Karidor
Game Masters C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2011.10.10 17:51:00 -
[77] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:...
Those policies are, at this point, unlikely to change anytime soon, but yes, we may revise them should we deem it necessary.
And so goes live and things change. After a bit of back and forth and internal discussions, Customer Support will change to a "hands off" approach in regards to War mechanics effective immediately, meaning if you can do it within the current game mechanics, you are free to do so (until the actual mechanic eventually changes). This affects mainly Point 6 and 7, and they will be change as follows:
6) Alliance hopping to evade war decs. Corporations are free to change alliances as they see fit at any time. This officially nullifies this notification.
7) Using alt corps to artificially inflate the cost of war decs Not an exploit.
I will update the original post with the answers accordingly as well.
We are aware that this change will affect (and probably annoy) some corporations that make a living of declaring war on other corporations and may make it harder to follow through with attacking a certain entity in high sec space, but feel that any issues arising should be addressed by changes in the game mechanics rather than artificial rules enforced by Customer Support after the fact. GM Karidor | Senior Game Master |
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GM Karidor
Game Masters C C P Alliance
28
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Posted - 2011.10.10 19:22:00 -
[78] - Quote
Taedrin wrote:
Thank you for the answers GM Karidor. However, I would like to reiterate the purpose of my OP: to consolidate this information in some sort of official manner so that this information stays readily available for the future generations of EVE Players.
Something like this?
Honestly, it's a wiki and any EVE player could have created such a page to try and keep track of it, that's why the EVElopedia is a wiki in the first place
But yeah, I locked this one to give it that "Official" stamp, so I'll try to keep that page up to date with any new public announcements that the Customer Support team makes. I won't promise adding past announcements as I don't know if I can make time for that, but should you feel anything to be missing and have the link and all, then let us know through the discussion page there. GM Karidor | Senior Game Master |
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Taedrin
Kushan Industrial
90
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Posted - 2011.10.10 19:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:Taedrin wrote:
Thank you for the answers GM Karidor. However, I would like to reiterate the purpose of my OP: to consolidate this information in some sort of official manner so that this information stays readily available for the future generations of EVE Players.
Something like this? Honestly, it's a wiki and any EVE player could have created such a page to try and keep track of it, that's why the EVElopedia is a wiki in the first place But yeah, I locked this one to give it that "Official" stamp, so I'll try to keep that page up to date with any new public announcements that the Customer Support team makes. I won't promise adding past announcements as I don't know if I can make time for that, but should you feel anything to be missing and have the link and all, then let us know through the discussion page there.
Thank you very, VERY much GM Karidor. I am very appreciative of CCP's new resolve to improve communication with its playerbase. |
Muul Udonii
THORN Syndicate BricK sQuAD.
5
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Posted - 2011.10.10 20:17:00 -
[80] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:And don't forget, if you're in doubt about something you intend to do might be skirting the rules on the wrong side of the rules, file a petition.
I'm about to suicide gank a hulk. Is this allowed?
Oh wait, too late, he left system.
The OP is correct, a list of FAQs easily accessible from the help page in the GUI would be a great idea. Especially if it is regularly maintained and updating it is a part of the release of a new rule. |
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Ildryn
X Inc.
22
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Posted - 2011.10.29 00:28:00 -
[81] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:
8) "Hacking" local chat to make you not appear on other people's local channel Definite Exploit, but should be fixed. Please report any new occurrences immediately.
Those policies are, at this point, unlikely to change anytime soon, but yes, we may revise them should we deem it necessary.
And those who have and known to have definitely exploited this are still playing.... Are we to take this to mean it is now okay to "hack" local. Contradictory rule is contradictory.
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Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
65
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Posted - 2011.10.29 00:45:00 -
[82] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote: 2) Loggoffski/loggonski Not an exploit at all, and never has been. We wonGÇÖt punish people for logging out of and into the game (even if they happen to log in all at about the same time and location that happens to be inconvenient for you).
lol that ones funny
Quote: 5) Alt recycling While players are free to delete characters as they see fit, excessive recycling of characters not permitted and disciplinary actions will be decided on a case by case basis. General guideline: donGÇÖt do it to avoid consequences within game mechanics.
Yeah I dont think they have the people to watch the thousands and thousands of alts recycled in a day after the 20% cut O.o
GM Karidor wrote:9) Can baiting in newbie systemsThis is explicitly listed http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Griefing here. Also see url=http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Rookie_Systems this list of what we consider "Rookie Systems".
ok this doesnt make sense.... all thats gonna do is increase the number of petitions filed the first time it happens outside the newbie system... Is ganking in the newbie systems prohibited too? They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
102
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Posted - 2011.10.29 00:51:00 -
[83] - Quote
GM Karidor wrote:6) Alliance hopping to evade war decs. (edited Oct. 10th) Corporations are free to change alliances as they see fit at any time. This officially nullifies this notification. [...] ( Declaring cheap wars on a corp that then joins up the alliance you want to GÇ£shieldGÇ¥ is considered an exploit as per the this notification (which still is the case), and you will get in trouble for doing that.)
Wait, both links point to the same notification. So is it in effect or not? |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
65
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Posted - 2011.10.29 00:53:00 -
[84] - Quote
Ildryn wrote:GM Karidor wrote:
8) "Hacking" local chat to make you not appear on other people's local channel Definite Exploit, but should be fixed. Please report any new occurrences immediately.
Those policies are, at this point, unlikely to change anytime soon, but yes, we may revise them should we deem it necessary.
And those who have and known to have definitely exploited this are still playing.... Are we to take this to mean it is now okay to "hack" local. Contradictory rule is contradictory.
Yeah it depends on what corp they were in They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group The Veerhouven Group
23
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Posted - 2011.10.29 01:12:00 -
[85] - Quote
A quote from GM Karidor
"9) Can baiting in newbie systems This is explicitly listed here. Also see this list of what we consider "Rookie Systems"."
Maintaining the links is beyond my competence, but this is a lie.
The reason why I say that is that I started a new character on 03/16/2011. While going through tutorials I petitioned a player for rookie baiting. He thought that was funny. So do I now.
No tears of rage here. I knew better than to do anything except look inside the can.
Maybe tears of frustration, though.
The response to the petition was that I should stop petitioning this kind of incident. I thought then that it might not have been a real 'rookie system' so I asked for a definition. It was 6 months ago, so I don't remember the exact response, but it was something along the lines of "That information is not available to you."
Sorry for the negativism, but this has been eating at me for . . . 6 months.
I can't think of a better way to antagonize a playerbase than invisible rules.
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Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
65
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Posted - 2011.10.29 01:27:00 -
[86] - Quote
I think no baiting in rookie systems is stupid (an I dont can bait lol)
like I said earlier: can you not gank in those systems too?
They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
188
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Posted - 2011.10.29 01:36:00 -
[87] - Quote
just ask the question about the one thing that list you actually care about
is it corp hopping?
nice approach hiding your beef in a list, but it doesn't always work, just like hiding high value cargo in a load of junk The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group The Veerhouven Group
23
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Posted - 2011.10.29 01:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:I think no baiting in rookie systems is stupid (an I dont can bait lol)
like I said earlier: can you not gank in those systems too?
Why do you think it's stupid? Can't you remember the day you took your first flight out of a station, expecting an environment where only 'aliens' were harmful, and then lost that ship to someone who has been playing for several years, but has never had the ********* to go beyond rookie baiting?
IMHO, rookie baiters do what they do because they are incapable of doing anything more constructive. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
188
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Posted - 2011.10.29 01:44:00 -
[89] - Quote
wtf... wrong thread The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
29
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Posted - 2011.10.29 01:45:00 -
[90] - Quote
In case anybody hasn't mentioned it, the rules on corp hopping to avoid war decs changed quite recently. *POINTS up to the sticky at this top of the general discussion forums* |
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