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ARES 003
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:17:00 -
[1]
I am thinking about training for an assault ship, so just wondering, is it worth it to train assault ships over cruisers? maybe not at my experience level, but in general, will an assault frigate outperform a t1 cruiser in situations like solo pvp or is it better just to use a cruiser?
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Lilla Kharn
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:30:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Lilla Kharn on 12/01/2011 19:30:59 Assault frigates will outperform a T1 cruiser in most instances. They are faster, smaller, more maneuverable and output around the same DPS. However, they also require a great deal more skills to become viable. Such as a T2 fit including the guns. I would recommend training cruisers first as they are also quite a bit cheaper and don't need as much skills.
A T2 cruiser will at most cost you 10 million. An assault frigate hull will cost you upwards of 15 million, not including fittings. ============================================= "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
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Dark Pangolin
Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:37:00 -
[3]
^^ what that person said.
However i would say that a fully T2 fit and rigged (t1 rigs) cruiser can and will cost up to 20-25mill depending on the cruiser and fit, however this is about the same cost as a similarly fit/rigged assault frig, and as the above poster said the assault frig tends to outperform the T1 cruiser on average.
Obviously, specific T1 cruisers could beat most specific T2 assault ships most of the time...but thats called EVE, everything is situational.
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Monger Man
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:40:00 -
[4]
I've looked at this myself and went the AF route. If you pick the right AF they can actually be a bit cheaper then a well fit cruiser (opinion).
Skill wise, hmmm. To really take advantage of some of the cruisers you need pretty close to the same skills. Maybe you can get them quicker for cuisers.
They way I looked at it was insurance vs fitting cost. A t2 fit cruiser can get very pricey, and you get almost nothing back insurance wise. You pay more up front for an AF but its fit is much cheaper t2.
Do the math you're self and figure out what you want.
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2011.01.12 19:41:00 -
[5]
AF's are not really that good at the moment, the best two likely being the Ishkur & Jag. The problem, is they are kinda gimped atm and needed that AB boost that CCP was gonna give them some time ago, but decided not to.
The Navy ships Comet,Slicer,Hookbill & Firetail all pretty much outclass most of the AF's IMO and T1 cruisers such as the Arbitrator, Caracal, Vexor & Rupture will easily out class a single AF.
If you are wanting a frig to specialize in, I'd suggest going with either the Navy Frigs or Interceptors as they work ok for soloing and will be far more useful to a gang than a AF would be.
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:04:00 -
[6]
Any cruiser that has some anti-frig capabilities (neuts, light drones, etc) will be able to deal with AF's pretty easily. It's only the slower, less versatile cruisers (like the Thorax) that really have problems with AF's
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Dark Pangolin
Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mutnin
The Navy ships Comet,Slicer,Hookbill & Firetail all pretty much outclass most of the AF's IMO and T1 cruisers such as the Arbitrator, Caracal, Vexor & Rupture will easily out class a single AF.
I agree that many of the faction frigs are just as good as, if not better than, most of the racial t2 assault ships, but they cost 2x or 3x more on average and give you next to nothing back in insurance. Also its important to remember that EVE is situational...don't attack drone boats in frig hulls (Arbitrator, Vexor)...don't attack light assault missile boats in frig hulls...(Caracal aka FRIG DOOM)...and remember that some ships pack the Neuts/Webs...(Ruppy)...but you may be able to kite a Ruppy to death...depending on its fit and your fit...etc...etc...etc situational everything
I've fended off 2 Darmiels at the same time in a T1 fit assault missile Caracal. I would guess there was about 200-250mill worth of ship/fittings between them vs my 7 mill Caracal. I couldn't kill them as they would burn away and I couldn't hold the point, but they couldn't kill me without popping in the act. Eventually they just let me go...before my friends got there. Some ships you don't fight in frigs...thats for 1v1
Now when you throw in fleets...you will align, maneuver, and burn a heck of a lot faster in most AFs that you will in most cruisers (MOST)...gtfo ability is often highly regarded...as tank/dps don't mean much when 10-20 guys decide to shoot your Assault Frig/Cruiser
Having said all this, personally, I fly T1 cruisers and faction frigs over AFs, most of the time, but that has to do with my personal preferences on how I fly and how I fight.
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Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:36:00 -
[8]
Personally, I look at AF's as more of a small gang boat than a lone vessel. So if you're going alone, go cruiser, then BC, they'll keep you safe flying alone. However, if you're doing small gang or fleet warfare, AF's can be a nice counterpunch to a standard faction/ceptor fleet. Personally, I keep a Retribution on hand for those fleets, for a frigate, it has a monster tank, amazing dps, and can keep a MWD and its guns online cap stable. Now, it cant fit tackle... But again, fleet ship, other people tackle, AF's kick their teeth in.
Gullible
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Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2011.01.12 21:23:00 -
[9]
They perform about the same... cost about the same, AF being on the ****ty end of both of these, not by THAT much though. After the fourth bonus comes it will be better.
But on the awesome level frigs win every time!
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Millie Clode
Amarr Insert Cool Name Here
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Posted - 2011.01.12 21:48:00 -
[10]
Assault ships get a raw deal at the moment. The minnie and gallente ones are pretty good, hawk and vengeance might be good now rockets have been buffed (still haven't bothered training for rockets yet). The problem is that most cruisers have capabilities which will badly **** up an AF. Stabbers and bellicoses are faster than your burner-fit lolfrig, AML caracals, arbitrators, vexors and thoraxes will have weapon systems tailored to melting frigates, ruppies, mallers and moas can all pack enough buffer that you don't have a hope of matching it in an AF (not even with mad t2 resists). So unless by "t1 cruiser" you mean the scythe/augoror/celestis that hardly anyone bothers with, no...you're better off with a cruiser. ---------- Who, me? |
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Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar Instapop Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.12 22:24:00 -
[11]
For solo PvP, go with the a t1 cruiser. They are cheaper and have more slots available for web, neuts, points, and e-war. Even the awesome Jaguar is at a general disadvantage in solo PvP.
Currently, assault ships shine in missioning or gang PvP. A Wolf can easily handle most level 3 missions (with Angels posing more difficulty). A Jaguar in a full squad or less, adds a great deal of DPS for such a small and fast package.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.12 23:06:00 -
[12]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 12/01/2011 23:08:18 T1 cruiser > AF, but AF's are great mission ships and can avoid gate camps better.
And triple-web Celestis for the frigate pwn'ing win.
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Kahega Amielden
T.R.I.A.D
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Posted - 2011.01.12 23:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Worgen Fratmon For solo PvP, go with the a t1 cruiser. They are cheaper and have more slots available for web, neuts, points, and e-war. Even the awesome Jaguar is at a general disadvantage in solo PvP.
Currently, assault ships shine in missioning or gang PvP. A Wolf can easily handle most level 3 missions (with Angels posing more difficulty). A Jaguar in a full squad or less, adds a great deal of DPS for such a small and fast package.
Depending on the fit, I'd argue that AFs aren't really any more expensive than cruisers.
Firstly, most AFs can actually be purchased for ~10-15 mil, surprisingly. Only the flavor of the month AFs are any more expensive.
Secondly, AF fittings are significantly less costly, most notably the rigs. The rigs alone way more than make up the hull cost difference between the two ship classes.
The main downside of AFs is that cruisers often fit specifically to **** on frigates, and they do that very well. A couple small neuts is enough to annihilate any frigate that operates within 6km. Ever run into a 1600mm plate neuting vexor in a gang of frigates? Nasty.
However, AFs have a big upside in that it's much harder to catch them. Frigate hulls -are- significantly more agile than cruiser hulls and let you dodge ganks much better, which are an omnipresent threat in solo PVP.
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Aquana Abyss
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Posted - 2011.01.13 00:02:00 -
[14]
Such great contradictory advice in this thread. Nice work.
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Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.01.13 00:46:00 -
[15]
AFs are great for solo work and frigate gangs. ~
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IoWalker
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Posted - 2011.01.13 01:44:00 -
[16]
Edited by: IoWalker on 13/01/2011 01:48:10 AFs are just good for small gangs, period. I don't count missioning b/c I don't care about them.
If you were looking at the aspect a 1v1 a cruiser (even a T1 crusier).. lol. Cruiser.
I think an AF is excellent for either RvB, or a corp that truly gets small gang fights (extremely rare)
Edit: the thing that really gets me about AFs (like EAFs as well), is that you are spending crazy time to max those little dead-end things that lead to no other ship skill tree. Think about that, b/c that is a leading reason why no one is flying them, second only to sheer performance.
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.13 04:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
The main downside of AFs is that cruisers often fit specifically to **** on frigates, and they do that very well. A couple small neuts is enough to annihilate any frigate that operates within 6km. Ever run into a 1600mm plate neuting vexor in a gang of frigates? Nasty.
I once lost a Wolf (on an alt) to a Broadsword and a Raven Navy Issue, but considering I was the bait and my corpies podded both pilots, I think it was a win.
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Coffeez
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.13 05:42:00 -
[18]
Originally by: IoWalker Edited by: IoWalker on 13/01/2011 01:48:10 AFs are just good for small gangs, period. I don't count missioning b/c I don't care about them.
If you were looking at the aspect a 1v1 a cruiser (even a T1 crusier).. lol. Cruiser.
I think an AF is excellent for either RvB, or a corp that truly gets small gang fights (extremely rare)
Edit: the thing that really gets me about AFs (like EAFs as well), is that you are spending crazy time to max those little dead-end things that lead to no other ship skill tree. Think about that, b/c that is a leading reason why no one is flying them, second only to sheer performance.
I think you need AF IV for HACs so it's not wasted training time. |
Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.01.13 08:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aquana Abyss Such great contradictory advice in this thread. Nice work.
You know somethings good when people love it and hate it.
Gullible
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foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army
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Posted - 2011.01.13 09:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Aiwha You know somethings good when people love it and hate it.
Are you referring to AF's or to T1 cruisers? :) _______________________ Drink Eau du Nichup«, the taste of heaven. Now available as Nichup Citrus« as well! |
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2011.01.13 12:38:00 -
[21]
With an AF and a small nos you can orbit any BC/HAC/Cruiser (even ashimmu if u got AB) indefinitely without getting hit, after you take out the drones
can never do that with a cruiser
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2011.01.13 13:34:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Diesel47 on 13/01/2011 13:35:41
Originally by: Lilla Kharn Edited by: Lilla Kharn on 12/01/2011 19:30:59 Assault frigates will outperform a T1 cruiser in most instances. They are faster, smaller, more maneuverable and output around the same DPS. However, they also require a great deal more skills to become viable. Such as a T2 fit including the guns. I would recommend training cruisers first as they are also quite a bit cheaper and don't need as much skills.
A T2 cruiser will at most cost you 10 million. An assault frigate hull will cost you upwards of 15 million, not including fittings.
I disagree, an assault frigate in most instances when fighting a pilot that knows what he is doing will be neuted, webbed, and then attacked by drones until he dies. (Unless you fit nos and AB)
Plus you never know when to attack that caracal floating around because you can't tell if he has heavy missiles loaded or assault missiles.
If you are looking for a counter to cruisers, then assault ship is not the best.
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Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2011.01.13 22:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Diesel47 Edited by: Diesel47 on 13/01/2011 13:35:41
Originally by: Lilla Kharn Edited by: Lilla Kharn on 12/01/2011 19:30:59 Assault frigates will outperform a T1 cruiser in most instances. They are faster, smaller, more maneuverable and output around the same DPS. However, they also require a great deal more skills to become viable. Such as a T2 fit including the guns. I would recommend training cruisers first as they are also quite a bit cheaper and don't need as much skills.
A T2 cruiser will at most cost you 10 million. An assault frigate hull will cost you upwards of 15 million, not including fittings.
I disagree, an assault frigate in most instances when fighting a pilot that knows what he is doing will be neuted, webbed, and then attacked by drones until he dies. (Unless you fit nos and AB)
Plus you never know when to attack that caracal floating around because you can't tell if he has heavy missiles loaded or assault missiles.
If you are looking for a counter to cruisers, then assault ship is not the best.
So why doesn't anyone fit AB and nos and go anal **** cruisers? I se cruisers preying on frigs and frigs running away, never seen a frig take down a cruiser (except the few I've taken down) if this nos tactic is so effective why doesnt anyone do it? Or have I just missed it?
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Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:27:00 -
[24]
a properly fit cruiser will always always always give you more survivability*, utility* and DPS than an AF.
*unless you want to tackle, in which case an inty/EAF is more useful to begin with.
do what you like, but eventually you'll figure out what im saying through experience.
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Lain Umi
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Posted - 2011.01.14 00:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Diesel47
I disagree, an assault frigate in most instances when fighting a pilot that knows what he is doing will be neuted, webbed, and then attacked by drones until he dies. (Unless you fit nos and AB)
If you are looking for a counter to cruisers, then assault ship is not the best.
this pretty much. hell, you could setup an exequror to take down all frigs with ease.
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Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2011.01.14 01:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lain Umi
Originally by: Diesel47
I disagree, an assault frigate in most instances when fighting a pilot that knows what he is doing will be neuted, webbed, and then attacked by drones until he dies. (Unless you fit nos and AB)
If you are looking for a counter to cruisers, then assault ship is not the best.
this pretty much. hell, you could setup an exequror to take down all frigs with ease.
You could setup any cruiser to pwn frigs yes... but how effective will it be against a cruiser who's fit to fight cruisers? Im guessing not very effective.
Ive got a question though that needs to be answered for this thread to be decided: How effective is a Nos against a medium neut? Will you need to pack CCCs to make it worth it or will a nos my itself work? two medium neuts is probly done either way but what about a meed small combo against a small nos? all thats really needed is to keep your scram running and you can speed tank probably. Anyone got the answer to this?
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foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army
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Posted - 2011.01.14 07:01:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dorian Tormak How effective is a Nos against a medium neut?
Using a small NOS you can keep a scram on a target indefinitely. Regardless of the number of neuts on you. Turn off autocycle on the NOS, then activate it just before your scram has to activate. You would have to be extremely unlucky for his neut cycle to come between your NOS cycle and scram cycle.
And even if he manages that (he wont unless you **** up!), you are at most 3 seconds away from reactivating the scram. He might not realise you lost point for that short period. _______________________ Drink Eau du Nichup«, the taste of heaven. Now available as Nichup Citrus« as well! |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.14 16:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dorian Tormak
You could setup any cruiser to pwn frigs yes... but how effective will it be against a cruiser who's fit to fight cruisers? Im guessing not very effective.
A Rupture with two neuts, a massively tanked AML Caracal flown properly, and an underfit 1600mm plated Vexor have pretty big engagement envelopes.
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Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2011.01.14 16:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Dorian Tormak How effective is a Nos against a medium neut?
Using a small NOS you can keep a scram on a target indefinitely. Regardless of the number of neuts on you. Turn off autocycle on the NOS, then activate it just before your scram has to activate. You would have to be extremely unlucky for his neut cycle to come between your NOS cycle and scram cycle.
And even if he manages that (he wont unless you **** up!), you are at most 3 seconds away from reactivating the scram. He might not realise you lost point for that short period.
That's neat man. I am definately gonna check it out.
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: Dorian Tormak
You could setup any cruiser to pwn frigs yes... but how effective will it be against a cruiser who's fit to fight cruisers? Im guessing not very effective.
A Rupture with two neuts, a massively tanked AML Caracal flown properly, and an underfit 1600mm plated Vexor have pretty big engagement envelopes.
Fair enough.
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Othran
Ad Infernum
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Posted - 2011.01.14 17:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dorian Tormak
Ive got a question though that needs to be answered for this thread to be decided: How effective is a Nos against a medium neut? Will you need to pack CCCs to make it worth it or will a nos my itself work? two medium neuts is probly done either way but what about a meed small combo against a small nos? all thats really needed is to keep your scram running and you can speed tank probably. Anyone got the answer to this?
Two medium neuts will not reliably kill the cap on a frigate with a small nos. The small nos cycle time is simply too fast compared to the medium neuts. It may cap the frigate out for a second or so but you'll be lucky to get away in that time.
One medium and one small neut will kill the cap pretty effectively on most frigates that require cap for weapons.
On frigates that don't require cap for weapons you will be pretty screwed even with a medium/small combo.
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Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.01.15 02:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Aiwha You know somethings good when people love it and hate it.
Are you referring to AF's or to T1 cruisers? :)
Exactly.
Gullible
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Okie Wren
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Posted - 2011.01.15 04:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Lilla Kharn A T2 cruiser will at most cost you 10 million.
WTB: Vagabond - 10mill
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ARES 003
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Posted - 2011.01.16 03:10:00 -
[33]
What I have gathered from this post:
Cruisers are versatile, cheap, and effective.
Assault Ships are pwnobiles when equipped with a nos/cap booster or are long range/kite setup and when they have enough tank to deal with drones.
Is this about right?
Someone know some exact numbers comparing the cost of a T2 fit cruiser to a T2 fit AF?
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Worgen Fratmon
Minmatar Instapop Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.16 04:03:00 -
[34]
Originally by: ARES 003 What I have gathered from this post:
Cruisers are versatile, cheap, and effective.
Assault Ships are pwnobiles when equipped with a nos/cap booster or are long range/kite setup and when they have enough tank to deal with drones.
Is this about right?
Someone know some exact numbers comparing the cost of a T2 fit cruiser to a T2 fit AF?
HAC cost v AF cost? or Combat Recon v AF?
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ARES 003
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Posted - 2011.01.16 04:41:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Worgen Fratmon
Originally by: ARES 003 What I have gathered from this post:
Cruisers are versatile, cheap, and effective.
Assault Ships are pwnobiles when equipped with a nos/cap booster or are long range/kite setup and when they have enough tank to deal with drones.
Is this about right?
Someone know some exact numbers comparing the cost of a T2 fit cruiser to a T2 fit AF?
HAC cost v AF cost? or Combat Recon v AF?
The cost of a T2 fit cruiser to a T2 fit frigate.
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.16 05:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: ARES 003
Originally by: Worgen Fratmon
Originally by: ARES 003 What I have gathered from this post:
Cruisers are versatile, cheap, and effective.
Assault Ships are pwnobiles when equipped with a nos/cap booster or are long range/kite setup and when they have enough tank to deal with drones.
Is this about right?
Someone know some exact numbers comparing the cost of a T2 fit cruiser to a T2 fit AF?
HAC cost v AF cost? or Combat Recon v AF?
The cost of a T2 fit cruiser to a T2 fit frigate.
www.eve-central.com
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Lilla Kharn
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.16 09:58:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Okie Wren
Originally by: Lilla Kharn A T2 cruiser will at most cost you 10 million.
WTB: Vagabond - 10mill
T2 fit cruiser. My bad. ============================================= "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
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Proxy Proximae
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Posted - 2011.01.17 23:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Lilla Kharn Edited by: Lilla Kharn on 12/01/2011 19:30:59 Assault frigates will outperform a T1 cruiser in most instances. They are faster, smaller, more maneuverable and output around the same DPS. However, they also require a great deal more skills to become viable. Such as a T2 fit including the guns. I would recommend training cruisers first as they are also quite a bit cheaper and don't need as much skills.
A T2 cruiser will at most cost you 10 million. An assault frigate hull will cost you upwards of 15 million, not including fittings.
That's a gross generalization... Some cruiser hulls like the vexor (or the thorax) with appropriate skills can put out anywhere from 500 - 800 dps. No assault frigate does anywhere near similar damage.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.01.17 23:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lilla Kharn
Originally by: Okie Wren
Originally by: Lilla Kharn A T2 cruiser will at most cost you 10 million.
WTB: Vagabond - 10mill
T2 fit cruiser. My bad.
Pretty sure a T2 fit cruiser will run you 15-20M. T2 guns are expensive.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Pax Thar
Minmatar Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.01.17 23:31:00 -
[40]
AFs and T2 fit cruisers are comparable in price ranging from 20-30m ish fully fit. For my money I like T2 fit cruisers, especialy the Rupture because of its tank, fit versatility and firepower.
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Amber Accelerando
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Posted - 2011.01.18 09:37:00 -
[41]
Huts wotcha gorra dee! Ya gorra dee it, get the fakkin AF & go oot an give wun Cruiser a reet gud seein ta.
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Lilla Kharn
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.18 10:42:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Lilla Kharn
Originally by: Okie Wren
Originally by: Lilla Kharn A T2 cruiser will at most cost you 10 million.
WTB: Vagabond - 10mill
T2 fit cruiser. My bad.
Pretty sure a T2 fit cruiser will run you 15-20M. T2 guns are expensive.
-Liang
Was under the assumption there would not be T2 guns on it as he is asking if he should train up assault frigates or cruisers first. ============================================= "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.01.18 17:30:00 -
[43]
Train both.
But for first, I would suggest try get your cruiser skill to a point where you can fit a t1 cruiser with a full set of t2 modules.
In a fight though, I've killed t1 cruisers with AFs. t1 cruisers are just more versatile and useful all around than AFs currently are in Eve. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Tony SoXai
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Posted - 2011.01.18 17:54:00 -
[44]
AF are **** mobiles and with a good pilot and enough dps can kill almost any cruiser pilot. AB/scram/nos/guns. They are cruiser killers, most are just too chicken to go after cruisers and too panicky to be able to kill drones and keep target pointed all at the same time. It takes practice but once you get into it, AF truly are cruiser killers.
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David Devant
Gallente CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.01.18 19:16:00 -
[45]
Edited by: David Devant on 18/01/2011 19:15:58 http://ctrl.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=8525441
In other news.... There are no solo artists in the Minnie Militia.
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Zyress
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Posted - 2011.01.18 20:41:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tony SoXai AF are **** mobiles and with a good pilot and enough dps can kill almost any cruiser pilot. AB/scram/nos/guns. They are cruiser killers, most are just too chicken to go after cruisers and too panicky to be able to kill drones and keep target pointed all at the same time. It takes practice but once you get into it, AF truly are cruiser killers.
LoL yeah bring that AF on over and try and kill my AML Caracal
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Tony SoXai AF are **** mobiles and with a good pilot and enough dps can kill almost any cruiser pilot. AB/scram/nos/guns. They are cruiser killers, most are just too chicken to go after cruisers and too panicky to be able to kill drones and keep target pointed all at the same time. It takes practice but once you get into it, AF truly are cruiser killers.
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Tony SoXai
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:38:00 -
[48]
/facepalm.
AM caracal? REALLY? Wow buddy, nice argument. AM caracal hardly counts. How about a cruiser who fits weapons capable of killing other cruisers?
I mean you probably think that an Ishkur couldn't own a small blaster vexor right? LOL i just know Im gonna have to explain that one...
My comment is completely true and anyone who thinks otherwise sucks/is fail/cant fit his ship.
Shield nano ruppy for example... will get crap-face-butt-owned if it gets scrammed by a decent AF pilot with a nos. Or a Vagabond... or a Stabber... Medium gunned ships are horribly at the mercy of AF, they just don't know it because hardly anyone does it. I could go on but if you morons don't realize by now... more cruisers to kill I guess :-)
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2011.01.19 13:20:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Tony SoXai /facepalm.
AM caracal? REALLY? Wow buddy, nice argument. AM caracal hardly counts. How about a cruiser who fits weapons capable of killing other cruisers?
I mean you probably think that an Ishkur couldn't own a small blaster vexor right? LOL i just know Im gonna have to explain that one...
My comment is completely true and anyone who thinks otherwise sucks/is fail/cant fit his ship.
Shield nano ruppy for example... will get crap-face-butt-owned if it gets scrammed by a decent AF pilot with a nos. Or a Vagabond... or a Stabber... Medium gunned ships are horribly at the mercy of AF, they just don't know it because hardly anyone does it. I could go on but if you morons don't realize by now... more cruisers to kill I guess :-)
Works if they are fitted to kill cruisers.. So no Caracals on the attack list.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.19 16:41:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tony SoXai Shield nano ruppy for example... will get crap-face-butt-owned if it gets scrammed by a decent AF pilot with a nos. Or a Vagabond... or a Stabber... Medium gunned ships are horribly at the mercy of AF, they just don't know it because hardly anyone does it. I could go on but if you morons don't realize by now... more cruisers to kill I guess :-)
Until the cruiser breaks lock with ecm drones and either nuets you to death and/or burns out of point blank range and into optimal.
Bottom line: Train both.
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Lilla Kharn
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.20 12:49:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Proxy Proximae
Originally by: Lilla Kharn Edited by: Lilla Kharn on 12/01/2011 19:30:59 Assault frigates will outperform a T1 cruiser in most instances. They are faster, smaller, more maneuverable and output around the same DPS. However, they also require a great deal more skills to become viable. Such as a T2 fit including the guns. I would recommend training cruisers first as they are also quite a bit cheaper and don't need as much skills.
A T2 cruiser will at most cost you 10 million. An assault frigate hull will cost you upwards of 15 million, not including fittings.
That's a gross generalization... Some cruiser hulls like the vexor (or the thorax) with appropriate skills can put out anywhere from 500 - 800 dps. No assault frigate does anywhere near similar damage.
Highlighted the important parts. ============================================= "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
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Target Painter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.01.20 13:16:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lilla Kharn Highlighted the important parts.
I think we're all disagreeing with is the part you highlighted. ****fits aside, you do run into competently fit cruisers... which means you they usually aren't engageable.
Also, Rupture with 425s, 3 gyros and Warriors does around 500 DPS.
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Schwester 6666
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Posted - 2011.01.21 12:24:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Tony SoXai AF are **** mobiles and with a good pilot and enough dps can kill almost any cruiser pilot. AB/scram/nos/guns. They are cruiser killers, most are just too chicken to go after cruisers and too panicky to be able to kill drones and keep target pointed all at the same time. It takes practice but once you get into it, AF truly are cruiser killers.
AF's are fun mobiles... but no **** mobiles A Good T1/T2 Cruiser Pilot with a Neut or AB fittet just kites the AF and thats the End for every AF. It's just a Question of Transversal...
There ar some Targets that are better for AF's like Deimos/Thorax or Zealot/Omen and then there are Targets who mean a 50/50 Chance to survive for the AF (depending on the fit) like minmatar cruisers (Stabber/Vaga,Cyna etc.), Drone cruisers (Vexor/Ishtar) or light/assault missile cruisers (Caracal/Cerberus)
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Tony SoXai
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Posted - 2011.01.21 14:00:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Schwester 6666
Originally by: Tony SoXai AF are **** mobiles and with a good pilot and enough dps can kill almost any cruiser pilot. AB/scram/nos/guns. They are cruiser killers, most are just too chicken to go after cruisers and too panicky to be able to kill drones and keep target pointed all at the same time. It takes practice but once you get into it, AF truly are cruiser killers.
AF's are fun mobiles... but no **** mobiles A Good T1/T2 Cruiser Pilot with a Neut or AB fittet just kites the AF and thats the End for every AF. It's just a Question of Transversal...
There ar some Targets that are better for AF's like Deimos/Thorax or Zealot/Omen and then there are Targets who mean a 50/50 Chance to survive for the AF (depending on the fit) like minmatar cruisers (Stabber/Vaga,Cyna etc.), Drone cruisers (Vexor/Ishtar) or light/assault missile cruisers (Caracal/Cerberus)
That's why you bring a Nos. Solo frigate without a nos is a fail fit. Good AF with a nos/cap booster you can solo just about any cruiser.
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.21 15:06:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Schwester 6666
Originally by: Tony SoXai AF are **** mobiles and with a good pilot and enough dps can kill almost any cruiser pilot. AB/scram/nos/guns. They are cruiser killers, most are just too chicken to go after cruisers and too panicky to be able to kill drones and keep target pointed all at the same time. It takes practice but once you get into it, AF truly are cruiser killers.
AF's are fun mobiles... but no **** mobiles A Good T1/T2 Cruiser Pilot with a Neut or AB fittet just kites the AF and thats the End for every AF. It's just a Question of Transversal...
There ar some Targets that are better for AF's like Deimos/Thorax or Zealot/Omen and then there are Targets who mean a 50/50 Chance to survive for the AF (depending on the fit) like minmatar cruisers (Stabber/Vaga,Cyna etc.), Drone cruisers (Vexor/Ishtar) or light/assault missile cruisers (Caracal/Cerberus)
Hmm Kiting a frigate with a cruiser that will work great :)
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Schwester 6666
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Posted - 2011.01.21 18:58:00 -
[56]
Sure works well did this hundred times. A Nos is good for sure but no win button.
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LPSKqwerty
Amarr CONCARD
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Posted - 2011.01.21 19:16:00 -
[57]
Nom
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Klauz Lycan
Gallente Honor and Glory Main Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.21 21:39:00 -
[58]
i love my ishkur. i trained especially for it and with full t2 fit its an awesome vessel. you can take a lot of ships down. still you need to know your weakness and i would never engage a missle boat. missles and a web and thats pretty much it. still, with a nos and a trackin disrupter u can perform really well. but tbh for me it was the look and the possibility to fly pretty fast and close which fits my style of play. _______________________
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