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Masters Pets
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Posted - 2010.12.22 20:59:00 -
[1]
While reading the forums I noticed that there are tons of discussions about commonly used ships such as ravens, golems, tengus, vargurs, machariels and many others, but I don't see much about the vindicator.
Just by slapping on neutrons and 3 mag stabs and ogres II I got nearly 1,5k dps which is insane! Also with it's bonus to tracking in webs it should have less trouble closing in and actually hitting stuff.
What am I missing? Is this just a good ship that is just not commonly disscussed or is there some large flaw that I don't see?
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Major Sackrash
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Posted - 2010.12.22 21:01:00 -
[2]
It's so face-meltingly good people don't want you to know about it
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.12.22 21:03:00 -
[3]
I hear its really easy to get out of blaster range when the blob hits.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died - |
Captain Nares
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Posted - 2010.12.22 21:15:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Masters Pets
What am I missing? Is this just a good ship that is just not commonly disscussed or is there some large flaw that I don't see?
Sure, 1.5k dps is great and Vindi isn't bad, but I'd prefer Machariel/Baalhorn.
Vindi itself has only 1 problem - no neut, all other disadvanatges (optimal and dmg type) come from its guns, blasters.
PS I don't fly BS in pvp :)
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:10:00 -
[5]
I use it for ganking poor souls that undock, or bait. Obviously fit slaves.
[Vindicator, Gank] Damage Control II True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Domination 100MN MicroWarpdrive True Sansha Warp Scrambler Shadow Serpentis Stasis Webifier Shadow Serpentis Stasis Webifier Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
Its good at what it does, but blasters aren't something I would take far from gates or stations. 1400dps normally, closer to 1600dps overheated.
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Mar Lee
An Army of None
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:38:00 -
[6]
False dichotomy. A ship can have facemelting DPS and still be crap if, for example, it was armor tanked, plated, and trimarked, and therefore too slow to catch anything within its very very short optimal range.
Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.22 23:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mar Lee False dichotomy. A ship can have facemelting DPS and still be crap if, for example, it was armor tanked, plated, and trimarked, and therefore too slow to catch anything within its very very short optimal range.
Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
Fed navy webs overheat to 18km with no leadership bonuses (25km with loki) and the vindi gets up to speed very quickly for a BS. The problem lies not with getting INTO the fight, but rather getting OUT. The reason machs are so damn popular is that they have the GTFOability of a HAC with the DPS of a BS (and the range to apply said DPS outside of regular point range).
Macha gets into a fight it thinks it can win, reinforcements show up, macha leaves. Vindi gets into a fight it thinks it can win, reinforcements show up, vindi dies.
That is why you see so few vindis being used when compared to machs in pvp (and in pve hybrids suck) |
King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.12.22 23:25:00 -
[8]
The lack of GTFO ability is why it's a rare sight in pvp. It's mobility isn't any worse than any other BS, in fact it's slightly above average. But at the end of the day, it's still a BS which means slow and cumbersome. The bhaalgorn is another fantastic pvp ship in it's element but once again is exceptionally rare because it's there to the bitter end just like almost any other BS. But they are fielded. You will typically see them on stations or at gates with tons of backup. I have a bhaalgorn and I'll tell you right now, I don't undock that thing unless I have a triage carrier tucked away somewhere to bail me out of trouble.
The machariel is the only faction BS I see used regularly in pvp. The reason is it outruns most HAC's and has such a stupidly long falloff that it can engage at very long range (for AC's) effectively. It's often said that the hurricane is the best HAC in the game, that isn't true, the machariel is. With a 1600m/s top speed without implants and only 1 nano, it'll keep up with anything short of a vagabond. And with a 5 second align time, it doesn't have to fight anything it doesn't want to.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Lyris Nairn
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.22 23:46:00 -
[9]
For the price of one expensively-fit Vindicator with the skills to use it optimally, you could instead field a full wing of Drakes flown by month-old pilots and do several times more damage at much longer range. A swarm of clueless idiots in Drakes will accomplish more than the most insightful pilot in a Vindicator will, with much greater cumulative flexibility and survivability.
With that said, please contact me in-game if you'd like me to hook you up with some tips on how to use my favorite batttleship effectively in fleet fights! :)
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Ephemeron
Solitairian Society
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Posted - 2010.12.22 23:49:00 -
[10]
King Rothgar has the right idea
the problem is compounded by the fact that BS need a high slot of cloak, which also takes lots of CPU. Without cloak it's pretty much suicide when roaming 0.0 - unless you travel with a big alliance blob, in which case the extra dps is pointless and you might aswell bring a regular ship.
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NightmareX
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.12.22 23:58:00 -
[11]
Edited by: NightmareX on 23/12/2010 00:03:47
Originally by: Masters Pets Just by slapping on neutrons and 3 mag stabs and ogres II I got nearly 1,5k dps which is insane!
Either your doing something wrong or your skills are very low with the Vindicator. Because i get 1570 DPS out of my Vindicator with 2x faction MFS'es + 2x cheap +3% damage implants.
Originally by: TimMc I use it for ganking poor souls that undock, or bait. Obviously fit slaves.
[Vindicator, Gank] Damage Control II True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer Shadow Serpentis Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Domination 100MN MicroWarpdrive True Sansha Warp Scrambler Shadow Serpentis Stasis Webifier Shadow Serpentis Stasis Webifier Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
Its good at what it does, but blasters aren't something I would take far from gates or stations. 1400dps normally, closer to 1600dps overheated.
I have underlined the things i'm looking on.
Why on earth aren't you using Federation Navy Stasis Webifier?
Or you can do as me by using 1x Federation Navy Stasis Webifier and 1x Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster instead.
Here you can see my setup now: Black Pearl
That's how you fit a Vindicator .
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:13:00 -
[12]
Issue with pimped pirate bs is that bored 0.0 supercap ***s consider it viable target. That means most likely you will end with bunch of moms on your ass.
Not that its big problem with vindi considering its fairly cheap /700m for hull, 120m for mfs, 70m for eanms, 100m for webs/ compared to active tank pimpmobiles like nightmare or rattler.
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:17:00 -
[13]
You're in the orphanage now? How fitting
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NightmareX
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: raukosen You're in the orphanage now? How fitting
Wow, you're abit late to find that out lol. I have been in The 0rphanage for 4 months and 20 days now.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:27:00 -
[15]
Faction ships all share a singular problem - people want to kill them.
Vindicators is no exception. The reason they're unpopular, is because once they get into web and scram range (e.g. blaster range) they're going nowhere. That's why the only faction ships you see often, are the Angels ones. The ones that can stay out of tackle range, don't to _too_ badly. But the Vindicator, has to get really close to whatever it's killing, and then ... well, dies, because 10 ships land on it right after.
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Ephemeron
Solitairian Society
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: James Lyrus Faction ships all share a singular problem - people want to kill them.
Vindicators is no exception. The reason they're unpopular, is because once they get into web and scram range (e.g. blaster range) they're going nowhere. That's why the only faction ships you see often, are the Angels ones. The ones that can stay out of tackle range, don't to _too_ badly. But the Vindicator, has to get really close to whatever it's killing, and then ... well, dies, because 10 ships land on it right after.
It should be noted that before The Great Nano Nerf, faction bs were quite viable in PvP. I flew a whole bunch of them myself, with moderate success - in the end they always get killed, which just goes to show how even expensive nano'ed up setups weren't invulnerable.
Anyway, faction bs suffer same problems as regular bs. They can still be used successfully for sniper roles. But for close range - hot drop imminent within 24 hours in low/null sec.
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:43:00 -
[17]
Use them where moms and hotdrops can't go, w-space. Bonus is that holes make things in range after jumps, aggro doesn't stop you jumping, just polarity and session timers. |
Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2010.12.23 00:54:00 -
[18]
It IS a facemelter.. probably the best non-cap ship at it.
I won't solo in it.. I won't even take it out in small fleets without logi.
You will be very high on primary list for two big reasons.. it is an expensive faction ship and people drool for those KMs.. and more importantly, it can melt ships so fast that it can turn the tide of an off number fight, an opposing FC would have to be a moron to not want this brute out of sight asap.. or atleast locked down in some manner, taking away enemy resources n focus from rest of your own fleet.
People that don't expect its firepower can be caught off guard and hestiate in their actions, and all this ship really needs is a split second mistake to unleash death on a ship. It's range is short, but unlike an AC boat.. it will apply a signficantly higher portion of its monstrous paper dps as opposed to say, a mach.. way more often than not.
But you, OP.. bring up ravens/golems/vargs which makes me think you're looking at it as a potential PvE ship. I personally don't know, I don't think I care to know. Plenty of other options that I'm sure do an overall better dmg/dmg projection/speed/tank combo for PvE. Use it for what it is.. a PvP brute that doesn't just break noses with a punch, but sledge-slams the nose out the backside of the head.
---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it- |
RavenPaine
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Posted - 2010.12.23 02:05:00 -
[19]
It took me awhile to figure out that: The best use for pirate ships is..........Pirating! They seem to built specificly for gatecamping and/or surprise visits.
Vindi is awsome, but it's a very expensive ship, and can be lost in less than a minute if your not in a good/organized fleet. As everyone mentioned earlier, it will have range issues, speed issues, and *primaried* issues every time you take it out.
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TimMc
Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2010.12.23 10:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: NightmareX I have underlined the things i'm looking on.
Why on earth aren't you using Federation Navy Stasis Webifier's?
Or you can do as me by using 1x Federation Navy Stasis Webifier and 1x Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster instead.
Here you can see my setup now: [url="http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/43960-Vindicator-Black-Pearl.html" Black Pearl[/url]
The idea was that overheated scram is 13.5km, while the shadow webs are 13km normally. Fed webs are indeed better.
Again though, I'm not taking this baby far from station. Machariel on other hand is a grand ship for roam around in, but the implants prevent me from risking it in nullsec. That's how you fit a Vindicator .
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kyrieee
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.23 10:44:00 -
[21]
The human cannot even do a simple quote!
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NightmareX
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.12.23 11:41:00 -
[22]
Originally by: TimMc Edited by: TimMc on 23/12/2010 10:57:27
Originally by: NightmareX
I have underlined the things i'm looking on.
Why on earth aren't you using Federation Navy Stasis Webifier's?
Or you can do as me by using 1x Federation Navy Stasis Webifier and 1x Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster instead.
Here you can see my setup now: Black Pearl
The idea was that overheated scram is 13.5km, while the shadow webs are 13km normally. Fed webs are indeed better.
Again though, I'm not taking this baby far from station. Machariel on other hand is a grand ship for roam around in, but the implants prevent me from risking it in nullsec. That's how you fit a Vindicator .
When it's about the Vindicator, you don't go after the range the webbers have, you will go after how many % of the speed it will slow the target down.
The best thing you can do is to use those 60% webs on it, because those gets to 90% webs on the Vindicator.
And another thing. If you're only doing station games with the Vindicator, then you can use Void L to gain even more DPS .
Because even with 25% tracking loss, you can still track most ships if you can web them with a 90% web.
But if you do like me sometimes, by roaming in some few systems around Jita with the Vindicator, then you better use Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L to have thr higest possible tracking as possible.
Yes, the Vindicator is a very good ship to use. But i know many that are really scared to meet one to lol.
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Proteus Maximus
Caldari New Eden Outcasts
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Posted - 2010.12.23 12:43:00 -
[23]
OP If you are considering a pve vindi I'll confirm is slightly better if not on par with a Navy Mega. It was a sin to desecrate the ship for my little test but I just had to see for myself. Don't waste the isk .
Just show ccp where we touched you on the doll and every thing will be ok. |
Major Sackrash
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Posted - 2010.12.23 13:04:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Major Sackrash on 23/12/2010 13:08:46 lewl noobs! This is how one fit's a Vindi.
I proudly present, this
[Vindicator, Instant death] Brokara's Modified Reactor Control Unit Brokara's Modified Reactor Control Unit Brokara's Modified Reactor Control Unit Brokara's Modified Reactor Control Unit Brokara's Modified Reactor Control Unit Brokara's Modified Reactor Control Unit Brokara's Modified Reactor Control Unit
[empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot]
Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Guristas Doom Citadel Torpedo [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router II
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Anarkiss
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Posted - 2010.12.23 13:47:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Anarkiss on 23/12/2010 13:55:24
Originally by: Major Sackrash Edited by: Major Sackrash on 23/12/2010 13:08:46 lewl noobs! This is how one fit's a Vindi.
I proudly present, this ....
put some shield hardeners in there and you can get overr 70k ehp easily with T2. put some isk into it u can make 121k ehp. also missing some stuff, will need to up ur dps slighlty...
[Vindicator, time to die!] Draclira's Modified Reactor Control Unit Draclira's Modified Reactor Control Unit Draclira's Modified Reactor Control Unit Draclira's Modified Reactor Control Unit Draclira's Modified Reactor Control Unit Draclira's Modified Reactor Control Unit Draclira's Modified Reactor Control Unit
Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field
Citadel Torpedo Launcher I, Guristas Thor Citadel Torpedo Tuvan's Modified Ion Blaster Cannon, Antimatter Charge L Tuvan's Modified Ion Blaster Cannon, Antimatter Charge L Tuvan's Modified Ion Blaster Cannon, Antimatter Charge L Tuvan's Modified Ion Blaster Cannon, Antimatter Charge L Tuvan's Modified Ion Blaster Cannon, Antimatter Charge L Tuvan's Modified Ion Blaster Cannon, Antimatter Charge L [empty high slot]
[empty rig slot] Large Ancillary Current Router II Large Ancillary Current Router II
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.12.23 14:05:00 -
[26]
Congrats
You have trancended from idiocy to a previously unseen level of stupidity which we don't have a name for yet.
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Spruillo
Gallente Spruillo Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.23 14:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cambarus (and in pve hybrids suck)
How so? Ive been farming right thru lv 4's ina rail hyperion, knocking anything out at range and loading antimatter for close up. I do dual box a legion pilot for missions which start close range with frig and cruiser swarms but after he takes aggro the hyp comes in and happily mops up large hulls while I deal with small hulls.
A vindicator would be a step up, 3 shot bs's instead of 4-6.
The advantages of arty over rails in my opinion is more than mitigated by the drone boats gallentian systems specialization emphasises.
Of course this is a pve perspective
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object
When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
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NightmareX
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.12.23 14:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: raukosen Congrats
You have trancended from idiocy to a previously unseen level of stupidity which we don't have a name for yet.
If that was to me, then no, i don't care at all on what others thinks of the corp / alliance i'm in.
EVE is all about having fun, and i have alot of fun here i'am now. So as long i have alot of fun here, i will stay.
But let me guess. I have killed you in my Vindicator since you seems to be so upset?
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Masters Pets
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Posted - 2010.12.23 15:50:00 -
[29]
I guess I should have specified for what purpose I was going to use the ship.
The main purpose will be ganking bears in hi-sec after they shoot at my salvage ship I know that neuts are the classic solution to breaking the MR tank, but I enjoy the thought of breaking it just by using insane face melting dps
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Kage Anathem
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Posted - 2010.12.23 17:03:00 -
[30]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: raukosen Congrats
You have trancended from idiocy to a previously unseen level of stupidity which we don't have a name for yet.
If that was to me, then no, i don't care at all on what others thinks of the corp / alliance i'm in.
Please note that a casual glance over this page reveals a chunk of lines reading "Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field", and typically this indicates that the highest level of morons have entered the thread and it will now degenerate to no avail.
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