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ImmutableDark
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Posted - 2010.12.19 02:36:00 -
[1]
Why does the raven that is a tier 2 battleship... (mathematically from a pvp perspective it is a tier 1 bs) have less ehp and regen than a drake? Also why does the raven underperform most tier 1 battleships... Can I give you an example?
[Armageddon, Trial] Magnetic Plating II Thermic Plating II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Damage Control II
100MN Afterburner II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Imperial Navy Medium Energy Neutralizer
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
Also the rokh is basically not a tier 3 bs ... it's not even a tier 2 bs because it can't hit with it's epic eft damage. When will ccp give the caldari battleships of the correct tier?
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.19 02:42:00 -
[2]
Lol, the problem could be that your Raven fits are as good as your Geddon fits...
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.12.19 03:34:00 -
[3]
Originally by: ImmutableDark (mathematically from a pvp perspective it is a tier 1 bs)
hmmmmmmmm
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.19 04:47:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 19/12/2010 04:49:11 Fine a better fit for.
[Armageddon, Fleet Setup] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II Damage Control II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L [empty high slot]
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Berserker II x5
Still has more HP, near the same DPS is only 2m/s slower, and 1.6 less Align despite being Armor fit, more accurate instant Dmg weapons from a greater range then a Torp Raven and it's DPS blows a Cruise Raven away especially since it takes a while for that DPS to apply.
This is just the Geddon, it only goes up from here with the Apocalypse and Abaddon. He has a good point, Caldari are stuck with a EWAR Battleship that is better Armor Tanked and the Rail Fail ship.
In comparison it is not even close to balence and it is hard to name a worse or less used battleship for PVP. It is sad because it is my favorite ship and there is little that warrents it's use. Even Sheild Battleship Fleets are made of Maelstroms and Tempests these days.
Anything it can do the Typhoon does better, Tank, Utility Slots, drone Bay and with those Drones Damage. All it has is a small bit of range on Torps and it is sad.
--
Originally by: NoNah I'm afraid you can't really expect a decent answer as the new generation of posters arrived. Alara and her merry crew just isn't that interested in anything constructive.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.12.19 04:50:00 -
[5]
One of the worst geddon fits I've seen posted here. My guess is you fail equally badly at the raven. I never use a raven, but let's see. Below is my standard fleet geddon.
[Armageddon, standard] Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Berserker II x5
And here is my 3 minute attempt at EFT warrioring a pvp raven. Keep in mind I don't fly caldari BS's.
[Raven, EFT warrioring!] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II
Warp Disruptor II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I [empty high slot]
Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Valkyrie II x5
Guess what, the geddon has 125k ehp with 1018 dps at 15km (IN MF) while the raven has 124k EHP with 1077 dps at 30km (CN torps). This is all level 5 skills and no implants. I also make no claims as to if this is an ideal raven. I'm no raven pilot and this is a half assed attempt at one.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.19 04:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: King Rothgar
Guess what, the geddon has 125k ehp with 1018 dps at 15km (IN MF) while the raven has 124k EHP with 1077 dps at 30km (CN torps). This is all level 5 skills and no implants. I also make no claims as to if this is an ideal raven. I'm no raven pilot and this is a half assed attempt at one.
^ Nice Geddon but that is with close range and in a Fleet it can not only Spidertank but hit out with Scorch Ammo. Also you don't have MWD on etheir of those which is needed in a Mobile Fleet between bubbles and the position of your primaries. You also do not have a Painter on it meaning your Torps will do little Dmg.
--
Originally by: NoNah I'm afraid you can't really expect a decent answer as the new generation of posters arrived. Alara and her merry crew just isn't that interested in anything constructive.
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ImmutableDark
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Posted - 2010.12.19 06:17:00 -
[7]
Yes well I don't fly Amarr and I realise that every single fit posted is better than mine. I'm glad that all of you guys posted something instead of just saying it was stupid. I'm not going to troll you for that. Torps have an explosion radius of 450 which means that you have to paint your target to hit with max damage the best way I've found to do this is with a tp drone.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Caldari_Navy_Mjolnir_Torpedo http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/47177-Raven-RAVE-039-EN.html
In pvp I think that basically you need prop otherwise you're just not going to catch anything so I definitely wouldn't drop it you're brasically dropping all of your effectiveness in combat if you do imo. So after the standard 2xLSE II's and 2xInvuln II's you've got one slot for tackle. Basically the best tackle is a warp scrambler because it potentially is more speed reduced than a web is. The neut/nos combo is for frigs within 10km (which would be a problem). The backup array is basically to stop the ecm drone ab apoc from completely owning you.
Another point that none of you guys mentioned is that shield tanks actually raise your signature radius effectively target painting you. Basically this is the number one thing I hate about shield tanking because it pretty much means that everyone is going to hit you for max damage, on your inferior tank, automatically. The signature of a raven with two lse's is about 575m. I understand that you should suffer the effects of your opposing faction's friend's ewar automatically (minmatar in this case). BUT THE SAME ISN'T TRUE FOR MINMATAR SHIPS. They actually have overpowered fricken sensor strength. I would rather have the sensor strength of all minmatar ships nerfed by the equivalent of one racial jammers now that multispectral jammers have been made useless. I bet you any money that the person responsible for the caldari nerfs and the minmatar buffs flies a tempest(if he's smart) and a phoon(if he's a derp which is more likely).
- Not saying nerf amarr. - Not saying nerf the effects of shield buffer's raising the signature radius of the ships (otherwise the drake which is already overpowered will be unkillable). It effectively has the signature radius of a battleship 370m or something properly fit any bs will murder it. - I'm saying up the rate of fire bonus on the raven and make sure that the no-overheat ehp is 126k because the overheat ehp will kill all of your midslots when done properly (start at 50% shields which means it's effectively 109k + (126k-109k)/2 ehp). "BUT BROE IF LYK YOU HAS 126EHP OVZERHEATZ DEN LYK YOUR BUFFER ARE 2 LEETS"<-response=STFU shield tanking is so broken now after they nerfed the hell out of it to fix the unkillable drake problem and didn't fix every other ship that has to fit an invulnerability field. - Also the following caldari ships need an extra mid slot and cpu to compensate: Rokh Kestrel
Thanks ccp for breaking all of the caldari ships.
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ImmutableDark
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Posted - 2010.12.19 06:34:00 -
[8]
Originally by: King Rothgar One of the worst geddon fits I've seen posted here. My guess is you fail equally badly at the raven. I never use a raven, but let's see. Below is my standard fleet geddon.
[Armageddon, standard] Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Berserker II x5
And here is my 3 minute attempt at EFT warrioring a pvp raven. Keep in mind I don't fly caldari BS's.
[Raven, EFT warrioring!] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Power Diagnostic System II
Warp Disruptor II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I [empty high slot]
Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Valkyrie II x5
Guess what, the geddon has 125k ehp with 1018 dps at 15km (IN MF) while the raven has 124k EHP with 1077 dps at 30km (CN torps). This is all level 5 skills and no implants. I also make no claims as to if this is an ideal raven. I'm no raven pilot and this is a half assed attempt at one.
Eh nice fit geddon fit I guess most people would go with prop instead of the web. Yeah the raven fit kind of fails for a number of reasons but yeah explained in the above post. Don't hold it against you but I expect amarr characters to not hold my HORRIBLE amarr fitting skills against me. Yes I hope my point still stands it's time for a fricken Raven buff.
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ImmutableDark
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Posted - 2010.12.19 06:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 19/12/2010 05:26:18
Originally by: King Rothgar
Guess what, the geddon has 125k ehp with 1018 dps at 15km (IN MF) while the raven has 124k EHP with 1077 dps at 30km (CN torps). This is all level 5 skills and no implants. I also make no claims as to if this is an ideal raven. I'm no raven pilot and this is a half assed attempt at one.
^ Nice Geddon but that is with close range and in a Fleet it can not only Spidertank but hit out with Scorch Ammo. Also you don't have MWD on etheir of those which is needed in a Mobile Fleet between bubbles and the position of your primaries. You also do not have a Painter on it meaning your Torps will do little Dmg.
[Raven, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Target Painter II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction [empty high slot]
Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5
Same Basic Tank at more cost and less range with less accurate weapons. All for a more expensive ship and missile flight time makes you even less valuable at a shorter range, if you manage to get to range.
There is no point in fitting a large neut on a raven because ONE large unbuffed neut doesn't do jack against battleships with cap boosters and weapons that require cap so it's primary purpose after that is neuting frigs which you can do with a medium energy neutraliser. My experience with neuts on caldari ships is that they're much more effective if they're cap stable. Also you're better off with a TP drone because 1.2*400(average bs sig) = 480 which is > 450 and frees up a mid slot for tackle.
OK? ok... I wins.
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Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
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Posted - 2010.12.19 06:42:00 -
[10]
Raven does better damage, can fully change its damage types and can apply it at very decent ranges (30km and 45km for Javelin).
Hell, it can even load in Rage for the people foaming at the mouth over EFT DPS numbers.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.19 06:49:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 19/12/2010 06:52:55
Originally by: Artemis Rose Raven does better damage, can fully change its damage types and can apply it at very decent ranges (30km and 45km for Javelin).
And yet innacurate and over time and that is at a maximum while Abbadons, Geddons and Apocs hit out much further with greater accuracy and better tanks.
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Hell, it can even load in Rage for the people foaming at the mouth over EFT DPS numbers.
Cept that Rage couldn't hit the broadside of a Carrier let alone a Battleship or Battlecruiser.
Originally by: ImmutableDark
There is no point in fitting a large neut on a raven because ONE large unbuffed neut doesn't do jack against battleships with cap boosters and weapons that require cap so it's primary purpose after that is neuting frigs which you can do with a medium energy neutraliser. My experience with neuts on caldari ships is that they're much more effective if they're cap stable. Also you're better off with a TP drone because 1.2*400(average bs sig) = 480 which is > 450 and frees up a mid slot for tackle.
OK? ok... I wins.
The Neut is to handle kiters who orbit outside 15 like the Vega and Warp Disrupting Interceptors to make them loose Tackle. TP drones won't be as effective in a fleet where you need that accurate Drone DPS against smaller targets while you would expect multible painters from the fleet.
--
Originally by: NoNah I'm afraid you can't really expect a decent answer as the new generation of posters arrived. Alara and her merry crew just isn't that interested in anything constructive.
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ImmutableDark
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Posted - 2010.12.19 06:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Artemis Rose Raven does better damage, can fully change its damage types and can apply it at very decent ranges (30km and 45km for Javelin).
Hell, it can even load in Rage for the people foaming at the mouth over EFT DPS numbers.
The Raven can't use T2 torps... minmatar ships can but the Raven can't I've already gone over how the Raven does more dps without t2 torps... I have gone over why this is the case in previous posts. The bs that can do the most damage and apply that damage fully is the typhoon. I'm going to spare you some humiliation here and just say that you're wrong... I really raged when they decided to give the phoon an extra torp slot. Basically there is no way that a caldari ship can hope to kill a minmatar ship (unless you're uber and you know they're not).
OK WE'VE ESTABLISHED THE UBER EFT DAMAGE DON'T WORK NONE. WHAT NEXT?
Damage projection? Does it haves the best damage projections? NO THE APOC DOES and after this for the <60km range the fricken geddon does... I actually don't have a problem with this I'm just saying that your statements are completely false and that you and your offspring should be shot. Please do your research before posting kthx.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.12.19 07:07:00 -
[13]
As a low sec player mostly, bubbles obviously aren't a concern. My view on trimarked BS's is the mobility is so bad there really isn't much point in fittng a speed mod unless you need one to close 5-10km to get into weapon range. That is not something either a torp raven or any amarr BS needs to do. That issue is limited exclusively to blaster BS's. In terms of general mobility, you won't catch anything that runs and you aren't going to kite anything. Thus it's a wasted slot imho. But this is a low sec perspective. I don't have to worry about random abandoned bubbles (or friendly bubbles) slowing down fleet movements.
As for a single heavy neut, you are right, it won't do much by itself. However, 10x BS's with a single neut each is very different. And even individual neuts can be handy on certain targets. The occasional heavy neut blast on a scimitar for example can shut them down for an extended period. It can also pose problems for nano-canes, vagabonds and other mid sized ships that don't fit cap boosters or NOS.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.19 07:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Cept that Rage couldn't hit the broadside of a Carrier let alone a Battleship or Battlecruiser.
As long as I'm not the only torp BS on the field (and my fleetmates got decent fits, i.e. a TP on their boats), Rage works just fine on BS and up.
The question is rather, is the extra 100 dps worth the hassle of a reload in case sub-BS targets show up and you wanna burn those down fast. Imo it isnt.
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ImmutableDark
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Posted - 2010.12.19 07:32:00 -
[15]
Backstory for emo rage post:
I was murdering a Cane in this corporation of butt pirates that I'm griefing right now(this failfit drake came to halp the cane not worth mentioning just like any pvp ship without tackle which I would have killed if my remote shield transfer undocked in time(he's usually very good at what he does)). I was overheating my mids as you are forced to do which killed off 100% of my mid slots. I was sitting at the middle of the umokka sun cloaked, as you do to prevent getting kicked from corp. I was wondering what other race actually has to kill off their mid slots in every fight just to bloody stay average? I really don't want to cross train because armor tanking ships just **** me off to no end.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.19 07:49:00 -
[16]
Burned out midslots?
You might wanna change the slot layout so you got heat sinks in-between your invuls, but in general you can heat them for like forever.
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ImmutableDark
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Posted - 2010.12.19 08:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Omara Otawan Burned out midslots?
You might wanna change the slot layout so you got heat sinks in-between your invuls, but in general you can heat them for like forever.
Nah you can't I thought that too but the reality is different.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.19 08:14:00 -
[18]
Well, sometimes you get unlucky sure, but in general my invuls tend to take a long time before they get dangerously close to burn out.
Thermodynamics 5 though, so YMMV.
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ImmutableDark
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Posted - 2010.12.19 08:34:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Omara Otawan Well, sometimes you get unlucky sure, but in general my invuls tend to take a long time before they get dangerously close to burn out.
Thermodynamics 5 though, so YMMV.
My fights tend to last a tad longer than three minutes... Still overheating should be a performance gain not something you do to fricken stay either even or slightly below even as I maintain it.
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Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
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Posted - 2010.12.19 09:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
And yet innacurate and over time and that is at a maximum while Abbadons, Geddons and Apocs hit out much further with greater accuracy and better tanks.
Better tanks yeah, armor works a lot better in gangs as well. As far as damage projection, Lasers ships also need their targets to be tackled to deal full damage to them as well, even more so under 15km. Tackling helps all ships deal damage, regardless of race.
Quote: Cept that Rage couldn't hit the broadside of a Carrier let alone a Battleship or Battlecruiser.
Well, it could hit the Carrier for full damage, but yeah, very poor damage projection on smaller targets. Conflag/Void/Hail aren't very hot at damage projection either. Strictly for "OMFG MAH DPS NUMBERZ" only
Originally by: ImmutableDark
The Raven can't use T2 torps... minmatar ships can but the Raven can't I've already gone over how the Raven does more dps without t2 torps... I have gone over why this is the case in previous posts. The bs that can do the most damage and apply that damage fully is the typhoon. I'm going to spare you some humiliation here and just say that you're wrong... I really raged when they decided to give the phoon an extra torp slot. Basically there is no way that a caldari ship can hope to kill a minmatar ship (unless you're uber and you know they're not).
OK WE'VE ESTABLISHED THE UBER EFT DAMAGE DON'T WORK NONE. WHAT NEXT?
Damage projection? Does it haves the best damage projections? NO THE APOC DOES and after this for the <60km range the fricken geddon does... I actually don't have a problem with this I'm just saying that your statements are completely false and that you and your offspring should be shot. Please do your research before posting kthx.
I didn't say the best, but very decent.
Don't forget changeable damage type as well. You can gain easily gain 10-15% by using the proper torpedo selection.
Before you can even say target painter, its not like that is an exotic request that only favors torps. Target painting helps all weapon systems project its DPS.
*** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.19 09:43:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 19/12/2010 09:48:52
Originally by: Artemis Rose
I didn't say the best, but very decent.
Don't forget changeable damage type as well. You can gain easily gain 10-15% by using the proper torpedo selection.
Though that is true the wait time to switch out negates that. There is also the fact that that Dmg is delayed and Turret ships can ajust there Range so Close Range Weapons can hit instantly at farther distances.
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Before you can even say target painter, its not like that is an exotic request that only favors torps. Target painting helps all weapon systems project its DPS.
Yes but other ships have TE's and TC's as well as being able to manage transversal velocity. Missiles are a numbers game and the game does not fare well for torpedoes as compared to turret based weapons. TP's are not a necessity on other ships they are on the Raven.
Whats worse the Raven has only six mids to compose a mix of Prop, Tackles, Cap Boosts and Tank. You have to cut out a lot on the Raven as is to hold a Tank and the TP is just another mid slot lost to the fire.
Now lets not just look at the numbers but at fleets. A Battleship fleet is comprised of several types of Battleships. Armor you see the 3 Amarr Types, the Tempest, Domi and Mega as well. Shield you see Maelstroms Rokhs and Tempests. Why not Ravens in etheir, while look to the Drake, Caldari's main fleet ship.
Those fleets are comprised mostly of Drakes with Cerbs sometime thrown in. Missiles do not work in a regular fleet and the Drake has all the stats it needs to form a fleet around it. The Raven does not.
Torpedoes are to short range and inaccuate while Cruises do not do enough DPS and have long flight time. All this on top of it's weak 6 mid tank means it is not that effective. It is difficult to use as a support ship as there are no other Sheild Missile Spammers to carry in like Drake Gangs.
On top of that Amarr can switch between long and short range DPS so there is no catching them off gaurd. In short Raven fleets do not work out and they can not be effective in other fleets because you are better off flying something else.
It is a terrible fleet battleship and the Typhoon out preforms it is the close range. It has no real home in PVP.
--
Originally by: NoNah I'm afraid you can't really expect a decent answer as the new generation of posters arrived. Alara and her merry crew just isn't that interested in anything constructive.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.19 10:13:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 19/12/2010 10:16:12
Originally by: Alara IonStorm Missiles are a numbers game and the game does not fare well for torpedoes as compared to turret based weapons.
What? Torpedoes fare excellent against turret based weapons, heck I'll fit torps over autocannons on my phoon any day. Yes they are THAT much better.
Torps are pretty much the best short range BS weapon system bar none.
And yea, the Raven is a great small gang battleship. Its not a good fleet BS, and the phoon isnt either.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.19 10:28:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 19/12/2010 10:30:41
Originally by: Omara Otawan
And yea, the Raven is a great small gang battleship. Its not a good fleet BS, and the phoon isnt either.
Yes and that is the major issue, it is not a good fleet Battleship. Caldari does not have one yet all the other races have to workable ones. The Phoon out preforms the Raven as a Torp Boat and is even faster then it.
The Raven needs too much support for to little reward. The only place it is effective is in a senario where the enemy does not have a proper set up.
It is good for Ganks and that is about it, if they are organized with proper support the Raven folds like a house of cards. For instance 4 Ravens vs four spider Geddons, Domi's, Mega's, Tempests, Abaddons.
It is still a Battleship which means it has favorable qualities but when you compare them to the rest it comes up short on all fronts. Especially Tank and Utility, a quaity shared by most of the others.
--
Originally by: NoNah I'm afraid you can't really expect a decent answer as the new generation of posters arrived. Alara and her merry crew just isn't that interested in anything constructive.
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.19 10:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm
It is good for Ganks and that is about it, if they are organized with proper support the Raven folds like a house of cards. For instance 4 Ravens vs four spider Geddons, Domi's, Mega's, Tempests, Abaddons.
I'd take 2 Ravens + 2 Basilisks against 4 spider Tempests any day tbh.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.19 10:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
I'd take 2 Ravens + 2 Basilisks against 4 spider Tempests any day tbh.
Yet those Tempest have a use in large fleets and the Typhoon as I said outpreforms the Raven as a Minmatar Gang Ship. It is interesting how you said Basilisk as they would Neut off your Cap otherwise, as I said it can not stand on it's own where others are more self relient.
All other races have workable set ups in all area's and the Raven is unique in that it does not. It is not able to preform near as many roles as the others. It is a one trick Torp Pony that is outdone by the Phoon and fails at any other level of warefare.
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Originally by: NoNah I'm afraid you can't really expect a decent answer as the new generation of posters arrived. Alara and her merry crew just isn't that interested in anything constructive.
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Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
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Posted - 2010.12.19 11:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alara IonStorm All other races have workable set ups in all area's and the Raven is unique in that it does not. It is not able to preform near as many roles as the others. It is a one trick Torp Pony that is outdone by the Phoon and fails at any other level of warefare.
Cross train!
Not every ship needs to be an armor RR fleet BS. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.12.19 12:28:00 -
[27]
Please stop making threads and get back to wow, you have no clue whatsoever and prove it everytime you post.
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.12.19 16:15:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 19/12/2010 16:15:05 Cool, forums posted my reply to the wrong thread.
- "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object |
Kraalen Warbear
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Posted - 2010.12.19 18:06:00 -
[29]
You 15 kills to 39 losses do not fill me with confidence in your ability to analyze the pvp effectiveness of any ship.
Just sayin'.
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Alara IonStorm
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.19 19:03:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Artemis Rose
Cross train!
Not every ship needs to be an armor RR fleet BS.
It isn't effective as a Shield Battleship, this is not Armor vs Shields it is about the general usefulness of the ship in any fleet. It is not effective in Shield and Armor fleets and has a ton of problems.
If you don't want me argue in favour of making my favorite ship in the game somewhat viable then please give an actual counter arguement besides cross train the good races.
Is it really that bad to want to see a more useful Raven at somepoint in the future.
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Originally by: NoNah I'm afraid you can't really expect a decent answer as the new generation of posters arrived. Alara and her merry crew just isn't that interested in anything constructive.
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