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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1815
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Posted - 2012.08.09 20:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:guessing ships will soon follow? always takes ships a while to catch up with changes in production costs from what i can remember from when minerals rose due to hulkageddon/drone nerf/etc. It really is too bad you can't go short on things in EVE.
It'd be possible to short on stuff like minerals, too bad nobody actually wants to go from the "it'd be so cool if we could" to "let's do it".
Plus it's also possible to hedge and more, but that's limited both by the number of items and periods of the year when it can be done. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1815
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 21:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
corestwo wrote:anyone saying "man it'd be neat to be able to short X" is wishing for an actual in-game system not your silly little offering.
Guess what, CCP are not going to implement it.
We can sit in a corner and cry waiting for the actual in game system that will never come or deal with it.
I don't see anything silly into implementing player driven content (your whole alliance is doing it too), as EvE is a player driven economy in a player driven sandbox.
After all I held > 100B in collateral in the past and both Chribba and Grendell have done more. So the only thing preventing these things from becoming real are the guys rowing against them. Or those with too much of a little imagination to go beyond the purposedly made basic tools given by the game. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1815
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 21:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: The problem is that making an actually useful shorting system is that there would need to be some way to ensure compliance, which is problematic. I don't think that problem can be overcome while allowing scamming.
See, there is this high philosophical way where everything is hard and impossible if not triple insured and certified.
And then there are those just doing it.
It's really, really the same thing done since years and years to hold collateral. What do you think it happens when a guy hands me 20B worth of collateral? What do you think it happens when a customer of mine hands me 20 capital ship BPOs to research?
This happens: they just hand over the stuff and get the thing done. We don't need to have a super WoWified SAFE system where every other random can safely do it, we have the 3-4 guys who can already handle it and just need to use them.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1816
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 21:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jypsie wrote:corestwo wrote:anyone saying "man it'd be neat to be able to short X" is wishing for an actual in-game system not your silly little offering. Glad I wasn't the only one to see the irony in a Goon talking **** about emergent gameplay.
If they do it, it's emergent gameplay deserving all praise and honor, if others do it, it's "silly". Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1826
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Posted - 2012.08.12 18:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sigras wrote:wait, wait, im still interested in this whole shorting the market thing because thats what ive been wanting to do for years.
But when you short the market, somebody has to take the opposite position, if that person is you, you stand to lose a lot of isk, how exactly would you make this work?
Even if you could get people to trust you, you wouldnt be the broker so much as the person taking the opposite position.
Well, it depends on how you take the situation.
The most classic short selling (that is NOT the naked short selling) involves the following steps:
1) Borrow stock from someone, usually there's a fee / interest to pay attached to that. 2) Sell it. 3) Wait, let the market do its course. 4) Buy stock from market 5) Give it back to said someone. 6) Steps 2 - 4 stock value = the trade profit.
In my particular case, I might have stocks of isotopes and minerals I need in the next weeks. So I don't need them *now*. You could exactly do as above: borrow the minerals from me at current bond interest value (say 5-8% a month, pro-rated / rescaled as needed), do your stuff, give the minerals back at maturity date. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1833
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Posted - 2012.08.13 12:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sigras wrote:yes, i know what short selling is, but my question is, why not do it yourself? arent you losing the isk that you could have made doing that very thing?
For the same reason people make me hold collateral instead of selling it. They need it later or they don't want to go re-acquire it or they are even using it for their own speculations.
Sigras wrote: Also Im assuming you want collateral which is to be expected, because otherwise whats keeping someone from just leaving with your stuff?
Yes. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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