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Mocam
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:26:00 -
[31]
Ok... if it's a discussion then let's discuss it just a little.
First I do like the removal -- it's one of the best clearances of road-blocks to PvP career's they've done so far.
Next...
There are those that get hurt by this change. It's a small group but EVE *IS* a sandbox game and each player's style of play should have some respect granted to it -- they chose their goals and unique/specific/specialized goals are not a bad thing in this game. The "optimizer" style players lose a small bit -- but it is a loss and for someone "going for the best!", succeeding then... -- that has meaning.
It takes a special type of personality to put up with lag-from-hell for nullsec fleet operations.
It takes a unique strength of character to try and solo around lowsec and nullsec.
It, again, takes something special for a character to sit staring at a rock while mining for hours on end so you can maximize the yield you get from the ore.
How'd you like to log in and run missions - day in, day out, the same missions for weeks and months on end -- a different style of play...
How many have the strength of character it takes to get 5/5 based upon "optimization" plans that DON'T let you do much beyond "learning to learn"? for as long as that takes to accomplish? I doubt many of us "bothered" with taking it that far.
Yes it's a small loss but in optimization, it's not the big changes at the start you build pride in. It's those last few steps at the end that you stagger to that gives you pride in what YOU did that others didn't/couldn't/wouldn't put the extra effort into obtaining.
Those folks are the ones that got hit so it's not an all "win" situation. MOST gain -- some lose.
CCP did the best thing they could, in the time-frames they had available but it still clocked a few folks who held a bit of pride in their accomplishment and that accomplishment has been taken away from them -AND- they lose a bit of sp per hour once it's done.
---------- So I sit here and see this or that "whine" post and go "ANOTHER whine?!?" and then think... How would I feel about having what I'd accomplished stripped from me and given LESS than what I had earned back? It's not a huge loss but to that optimization type? Ouch...
As such, I think I can live with the posts as they vent their frustration. They DID do something "crazy" in 5/5 with all that but THEY were successful at what they set out to accomplish and it was something few are willing to even try...
To those that lose in this -- I'm sorry for your loss. This will help the majority of players and new ones joining up but I do understand this is small comfort for that extra-effort you put in that others didn't. ----------
There: No disagreement with it being a good change. None what-so-ever. I'm just trying to understand THEIR side of it and express things in a way that might help some others understand them a bit better.
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:11:00 -
[32]
Posting in a 'serious discussion' thread about learning skills because obviously the hundreds of other threads about learning skills didn't contain not a one iota of 'serious discussion'.
--WIS/Incarna/Ambulation where microtransactions come to play, and uh bars.-- |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Bhattran Posting in a 'serious discussion' thread about learning skills because obviously the hundreds of other threads about learning skills didn't contain not a one iota of 'serious discussion'.
But this is the most serious discussion about learning skill and that makes it special.
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VooDooPimp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:26:00 -
[34]
Edited by: VooDooPimp on 29/11/2010 14:26:59 im training as many learning skills as I can RIGHT NOW, so when they nurf them i will have more SP to put someplace cool like "Fast Talk" lv 5.
Im as gitty as a school girl
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StrykerR1
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:27:00 -
[35]
so CCP do i get lets say 2 months free ? or do i gte my sp i can put into anyhting? so in a nut shell i spent time and money into a skill your going to just delete? right? and i dont get any compensation
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torenna
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:37:00 -
[36]
speeking words of wisdom eternum thank you. hope this change gets some of the people making a fuss to leave, the game could do without them.
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Eastman Color
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:57:00 -
[37]
Originally by: VooDooPimp Edited by: VooDooPimp on 29/11/2010 14:26:59 im training as many learning skills as I can RIGHT NOW, so when they nurf them i will have more SP to put someplace cool like "Fast Talk" lv 5.
Im as gitty as a school girl
you mean giddy
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 14:58:00 -
[38]
Originally by: StrykerR1 so CCP do i get lets say 2 months free ? or do i gte my sp i can put into anyhting? so in a nut shell i spent time and money into a skill your going to just delete? right? and i dont get any compensation
Read the blog.
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Scorpyn
Most X-treme Spaceships Spectres of the Deep
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:06:00 -
[39]
A serious discussion?
In EVE General Discussion?
Right...
I'll be serious though.
In my opinion, learning used to be perfectly fine. Until the introduction of advanced learning, at which point we were looking at extremely long payoff times.
So, if it was completely up to me, this change would only affect advanced learning.
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Rodrigo Milani
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:22:00 -
[40]
ok but who learned all learning skills lost some time training them that we coould have used for other skills... So best thing to do is refound all who trained them by 50%more?
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:28:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Rodrigo Milani ok but who learned all learning skills lost some time training them that we coould have used for other skills... So best thing to do is refound all who trained them by 50%more?
Please explain.
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Rodrigo Milani
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:52:00 -
[42]
new players nowstart with max attribute , we didnt , we lost time training them that we could have used for other skills, we lost time and time is worth more than anything so i ask for 50%more SP for who trained learning skills, a normal refound isnt enough. who's gonna pay my lost time?
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.11.29 15:58:00 -
[43]
Suggestion: Remove the "new topic" button from everywhere apart from the list of topics section within a subforum.
That'd save those with chronic hand/eye coordination some face. |
hjgjgfgfgsj
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:18:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Rodrigo Milani new players nowstart with max attribute , we didnt , we lost time training them that we could have used for other skills, we lost time and time is worth more than anything so i ask for 50%more SP for who trained learning skills, a normal refound isnt enough. who's gonna pay my lost time?
This kind of makes sense actually.
It's not about just giving back the SP they trained, but they also feel cheated because of the time they put into it which could have gone into something better, yet only now are they able to.
I get it.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:25:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Rodrigo Milani new players nowstart with max attribute , we didnt , we lost time training them that we could have used for other skills, we lost time and time is worth more than anything so i ask for 50%more SP for who trained learning skills, a normal refound isnt enough. who's gonna pay my lost time?
And I, like the remaining "cheated vets" will still remain 90m SP ahead of the new players, so the problem is what exactly? They will never be able to catch up unless I unsubscribe for a few years.
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crazyiven
CrAzY LLC.
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:30:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Stink Gracklaw The vast majority of the Eve population believes the same way. There's a tiny group of bitter vets who fear change who are making a bunch of noise but most people are glad the learning skills are going away.
I'm and old vet, but I would like to put them sp somewhere else myself. But what is funny is how no one has pointed out that them old vet made most of their sp by not being active. remember when you could set a month long skill go inactive and come back a month later and boom you had a lv5 done.
I'm all for this...
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Rodrigo Milani
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:36:00 -
[47]
I think u r missing the point , im talking about wasted time i could have trained for a marauder instead of learning skills, andmake more money in lesser time, but no i trained for them first to learn faster, so the problem here is time/reward, we wasted months training for them, a boosted refound will be gladly accepted , thanks. :-) i dont care much about it bc eve is dying but fair is fair...
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:45:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Rodrigo Milani I think u r missing the point , im talking about wasted time i could have trained for a marauder instead of learning skills, andmake more money in lesser time, but no i trained for them first to learn faster, so the problem here is time/reward, we wasted months training for them, a boosted refound will be gladly accepted , thanks. :-) i dont care much about it bc eve is dying but fair is fair...
Oh so you want CCP to give you 3 PLEX, 3b ISK and 9m SP to reallocate?
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Rodrigo Milani
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:49:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Rodrigo Milani I think u r missing the point , im talking about wasted time i could have trained for a marauder instead of learning skills, andmake more money in lesser time, but no i trained for them first to learn faster, so the problem here is time/reward, we wasted months training for them, a boosted refound will be gladly accepted , thanks. :-) i dont care much about it bc eve is dying but fair is fair...
Oh so you want CCP to give you 3 PLEX, 3b ISK and 9m SP to reallocate?
Nope,as I said a 50% more Sp refound should be enough.
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:50:00 -
[50]
I'm pretty happy that I'll get to dump my 3.1 million learning SPs into something else.
I'm also pretty happy about the fact that making the game more fun out of the gate will ultimately mean more people to pewpew. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:52:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Rodrigo Milani I think u r missing the point , im talking about wasted time i could have trained for a marauder instead of learning skills, andmake more money in lesser time, but no i trained for them first to learn faster, so the problem here is time/reward, we wasted months training for them, a boosted refound will be gladly accepted , thanks. :-) i dont care much about it bc eve is dying but fair is fair...
I don't think you could of trained for that Marauder with no learning skills --
Join BIG
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Rodrigo Milani
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:58:00 -
[52]
yeah but the wasted time problem still remain :-), and anyone one else feels like CCP doesnt care about its players like they did in past?
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.11.29 16:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Rodrigo Milani yeah but the wasted time problem still remain :-), and anyone one else feels like CCP doesnt care about its players like they did in past?
There is no wasted time "problem".
The only problem here is your delusional sense of entitlement. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
VaMei
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.11.29 17:02:00 -
[54]
Edited by: VaMei on 29/11/2010 17:02:55 I've got all the advanced learning skills at Lv4. Quite frankly, I'm not going to be butt hurt one little bit about being able to instantly move all those skill points into some of the trade & social skills I've been putting off while my points are mapped for something else.
For years now, I've been putting off spending any serious training time on those skills while I neural map between int/mem & wil/pers to get the 'important skills out of the way'. Since those important skills will never be out of the way, this seems like the perfect time to punch out those skills that I'll never be mapped for optimal training.
My learning skills served me well while I had them, but I'm not going to shead any tears over seeing them go. o/
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Rodrigo Milani
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Posted - 2010.11.29 17:48:00 -
[55]
All right then o/ learning skills you were nice books to read o/ learning skills o/ rest in peace or burn in fire place lol
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Traycea
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:00:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Traycea on 29/11/2010 18:03:41 Since this thread is serious compared to the rest perhaps a good compromise would be to keep the 20 attribute points at character creation and keep learning skills. The bitter vets could still work at reducing their skill training time, which would be reduced tremendously, and perhaps in a few years we may get CCP to get rid of learning skills again and thus we would have 40 attribute points at startup it's a win win imo.
Traycea with a Y
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waynemcbain
Caldari Serenity Engineering and Transport Company True Reign
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:38:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Rodrigo Milani wasted time problem
In this game, SP grows with time. My 'wasted time' is being refunded to me, so where is the problem?
Sure I could have been (insert ISK making activity here) a little bit more efficiently while those skills were being trained, but really, 50% more SP? Don't get me wrong I'll take any free SP I can get, but I still disagree that the player base is entitled to this.
I'm still yet to see any sort of compelling argument against the change.
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Jenko Raa
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Posted - 2010.11.29 18:58:00 -
[58]
Dude. What more can be said about this topic which already has not been said? Cant we all just...get along. Dude.
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Schmacos tryne
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Black Dranzer The only thing that really gets me is the minor decrease in training time. That's a legitimate reason to complain, even if it's a tiny amount that won't really make a difference for a number of years.
Besides that, I think it's just the combination of "we fear change" and "the slippery slope is going to doom us all".
The only characters who will 'suffer' a decrease in training time were the ones with 5/5 learning skills and +5 implants.
Yeah, That would be me... Merry fukking x-mas and CCP togheter with the whine-*****es can BIH.
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2010.11.29 20:37:00 -
[60]
So how are the people that have +5 implants an 5/5 learning skills going to lose training speed? SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
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