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TheNotYou
Scorpion on a Stick
0
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Posted - 2012.08.04 16:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't know if this has been adressed already but the Rifter model is totally broken the way it is now. It's oversized, almost the same size of a Thrasher, making it's guns look tiny. The launchers are mounted on top of the hull own launchers. This has been fixed on the new Drake model but no one want to mention it on the Rifter. I know it's a classic and beautiful model with a lego version and all but it's broken and it needs a little redesign. |
Kisogo Magellin
Parallax Shift The Periphery
2
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Posted - 2012.08.04 17:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
TheNotYou wrote: The launchers are mounted on top of the hull own launchers
Those are launchers? ._. |
TheNotYou
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.08.04 18:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kisogo Magellin wrote:TheNotYou wrote: The launchers are mounted on top of the hull own launchers Those are launchers?
They look a lot like the stuff that launch missiles some people mount on top of them, so I believe they are. In a world with no launcher models, like it was a few months ago, that would make sense. Now it just makes it look stupid. |
The VC's
Spack Force 5
11
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Posted - 2012.08.05 15:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1
I think it looks silly now. I imagined the Rifter to be a small, agile, bootstrapped ship with a cockpit instead of a bridge, that escapes it's Amarran overlords by ducking under it's guns and hiding in space debris. Then ambushes them with big machine guns bolted onto it's side.
I notice the Freki on SiSi is the original size. It wasn't broke, no fix needed.
Maybe this was some way of making Rifter pilots not feel gypped by the last ship rebalance.
Please change it back, it's meant to be small. |
Shukuzen Kiraa
Neurodyne
197
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Posted - 2012.08.05 19:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rifter isn't to large, Destroyers are too small. |
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2012.08.05 19:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shukuzen Kiraa wrote:Rifter isn't to large, Destroyers are too small.
This, I like the rifter. When ships get too small it's impractical to even see them on screen. |
Alara IonStorm
2890
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Posted - 2012.08.05 23:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
I hope they upsize all Frigates into the 80-150m Range. Always thought they were a bit too small. I hope they downsize the Thrasher a little as well, it is as big as a Cruiser.
Minmatar Guns could stand to be a bit bigger in general but not that much. The are a touch to small compared to there RL barrel sizes. |
Janet Patton
Brony Express
38
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Posted - 2012.08.06 04:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
I mentioned this in several threads already that the Rifter and variants have grown from 56m to 139m. It is by far the largest frigate out there now. I think the reason they increased its size was to fit the new launcher models and fix some issues with the turrets clipping through the model, BUT I think they over did it and it needs to be scaled back down some.
A dev mentioned on another post that they are still tweaking and reworking a lot of the models. Eventually each ship class will be more uniform in size. Why do I have this sig? I don't smoke. |
Astald Ohtar
L'AGENCE Yulai Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.08.06 12:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
EvE players whine about everything |
TheNotYou
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.08.06 12:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
I can understand the Thrasher being as big as a Cruiser. It holds 8 weapon hardpoints after all. Now the Rifter, or any other frigate that mounts only 3 or 4 weapons and is twice as fast and maneuverable, having a model the same size does not make sense. I'm hoping for a small redesign. |
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VanDam
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2012.08.06 12:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
The VC's wrote:I think it looks silly now. I imagined the Rifter to be a small, agile, bootstrapped ship with a cockpit instead of a bridge, that escapes it's Amarran overlords by ducking under their guns and hiding in space debris. Then ambushes them with big machine guns bolted onto it's side.
So basically, you want the Millenium Falcon? |
Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
61
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Posted - 2012.08.06 14:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
The old Rifters guns had massive clipping issues. The ones on the front stuck out through the vent thingys, and the ones on the side were hardly attached. I think the size increase was a decent compromise between leaving it broken and designing a new model with proper hardpoints... |
TheNotYou
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.08.06 17:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sarik Olecar wrote:The old Rifters guns had massive clipping issues. The ones on the front stuck out through the vent thingys, and the ones on the side were hardly attached. I think the size increase was a decent compromise between leaving it broken and designing a new model with proper hardpoints...
Changing hardpoints doesn't require a model change. Nonetheless I think it does deserve a small redesign, just like the one they did to the Drake, due to the missile launcher redundancy. A simple retexturing would do it but I'd love to see some creativity there. The ships design is one of the things I love the most about EvE Online. Resizing the model is a good workaround but it's far from being a decent compromise. Imagine if they do something similar on a cruiser class ship. A Vagabond the size of a Tempest doesn't appeal to me. |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
161
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Posted - 2012.08.06 18:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
I am going to chime in on this only because I have an alt that has a rifter, thrasher, and cane in the hangar - pre patch things ther rifter was a tad small to the guns... but not overly so... it did look alot like a very small ship with big guns on it... then the patch hit.
Now this how I see it in the hangar with these three ships as you change between them:
Cane to Thrasher... The Trasher is HUGE... it's actually massing (though shorter than, but bulkier) than the Cane... that means the Destroyer is almost as big as a battlecruiser... and the guns on it looks tiny... and then you compare the Thrasher to the rifter and the Rifter is huge also and compare it to the cane and it's gigantic to a BC hull.. and the guns look tiny...
Here would be my solution:
Make both the thrasher and the rifter at the mid-point between the old (very small) and new (huge) point... this would put the cane as the default size for BC hull for minnies - then the thrasher would be about 1/2 the length of a BC and 2/3rds of a Cruiser... but massing enough to fill the role and the guns (small) would look right on the hull... then the same with the Rifter making it 2/3rds the size of a Destroyer hull and 1/3rd the length of a BC... which would make it look proportionals and the small turrets would also not look to big (old version) or too tiny (new version) but as they probably should have looked in the first place. To mine or not to mine... that is the quesiton. |
TheNotYou
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.08.08 11:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
I understand game balance is a priority over graphics but come on... they scaled the model up to fix graphics issues. The Drake was remodeled 2 weeks after people noticed the launcher redundancy, but the Drake is popular. If you take into account the post-Inferno Rifter popularity it will never get a redesign. Old school Rifter lovers won't want it to change and new players will probably be flying something else to notice it. I can already see it falling in the limbo as a broken design barely flown ship. Maybe that's karma from all years of popularity.
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Dread Pirate Pete
Tribal Core Defiant Legacy
23
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Posted - 2012.08.08 11:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Still, you'd expect the classes to be noticeably different in size. Right now there to much of a discrepancy between sig size and actual size, a frig should feel tiny compared to a BC. |
Alara IonStorm
2913
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Posted - 2012.08.08 12:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
TheNotYou wrote: Changing hardpoints doesn't require a model change. Nonetheless I think it does deserve a small redesign, just like the one they did to the Drake, due to the missile launcher redundancy. A simple retexturing would do it but I'd love to see some creativity there. The ships design is one of the things I love the most about EvE Online. Resizing the model is a good workaround but it's far from being a decent compromise. Imagine if they do something similar on a cruiser class ship. A Vagabond the size of a Tempest doesn't appeal to me.
I like that they are upsizing Frigates into the 100m range. I hope they do it to every single one of them.
The Vagabond is fine in size but the Rupture could stand to be a bit bigger. It has about 60% less volume compared to Gal Cruisers and the Thrasher is bigger then it.
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:Right now there to much of a discrepancy between sig size and actual size, a frig should feel tiny compared to a BC. Signature is the ships size picked up by sensors only and has little to do with actual size. Even with the new size a Rifter does feel tiny compared to a Battlecruiser. They're like 1/10th the volume.
At least now it feels like a Frigate and not a big Fighter Jet. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
118
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Posted - 2012.08.08 13:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
The hilarious part about rifter size is that the signature is only 35 points. The only t1 matari frig with smaller sig is slasher with 30 points. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first! |
TheNotYou
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.08.08 13:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
I don't know why it shouldn't look as a Fighter Jet. The Rifter design is inspired by the X-Wing and supposedly all frigate class ships should fly with a one man crew. If you mean the real sea frigates then it's completly wrong on the way it should look. But the analogy EvE Online makes with sea ship classes its on it's combat role, not the size.
If they increase the size from all frigates they must increase gun size too because they look ridiculously tiny on this inflated Rifter. |
Alara IonStorm
2914
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Posted - 2012.08.08 14:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
TheNotYou wrote:I don't know why it shouldn't look as a Fighter Jet. The Rifter design is inspired by the X-Wing and supposedly all frigate class ships should fly with a one man crew. If you mean the real sea frigates then it's completly wrong on the way it should look. But the analogy EvE Online makes with sea ship classes its on it's combat role, not the size.
If they increase the size from all frigates they must increase gun size too because they look ridiculously tiny on this inflated Rifter. Because this isn't a fighter jet game. I know my personal preference is to bigger ships and Frigates have always been too small. Fighter jets belong in games like X-Wing.
Gun Sizes should be based on the gun size. Right now those turrets are too small for a cannon that rapidly fires 125-200mm Shells and is way to small for Artillery. What is more Frigates that hold Drones are too small to hold them.
Basing a ship size directly on the sea role isn't something that should happen because Cruisers have 3-4 times the volume of RL Battleships. Doesn't mean they have to be tiny though.
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Melina Lin
Universal Frog
32
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Posted - 2012.08.08 14:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
The old Rifter model was really badly broken with the new turrets and launcher sockets. There were clipping errors everywhere and not small ones! This was a good change. |
TheNotYou
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.08.08 16:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: Because this isn't a fighter jet game. I know my personal preference is to bigger ships and Frigates have always been too small. Fighter jets belong in games like X-Wing.
Gun Sizes should be based on the gun size. Right now those turrets are too small for a cannon that rapidly fires 125-200mm Shells and is way to small for Artillery. What is more Frigates that hold Drones are too small to hold them.
Basing a ship size directly on the sea role isn't something that should happen because Cruisers have 3-4 times the volume of RL Battleships. Doesn't mean they have to be tiny though.
Let's put personal preferences aside. A fast and mobile vessel should look small compared to slower counterparts. Why does it have the size of a destroyer? It shouldn't. BTW it wasn't tiny before. Search for Rifter scale at Google Images. It was the size of a 747 on a RL comparison.
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Alara IonStorm
2915
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Posted - 2012.08.08 18:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
TheNotYou wrote: Let's put personal preferences aside. A fast and mobile vessel should look small compared to slower counterparts. Why does it have the size of a destroyer? It shouldn't. BTW it wasn't tiny before. Search for Rifter scale at Google Images. It was the size of a 747 on a RL comparison.
It isn't the size of a Destroyer the Rifter model is about half the length a third the volume. It is much, much smaller currently.
Of course I have seen the 747 picture, way too small. I am glad they fixed it, the Merlin and the Bombers.
I can't wait till they update the rest. |
TheNotYou
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.08.08 19:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: It isn't the size of a Destroyer the Rifter model is about half the length a third the volume. It is much, much smaller currently.
Of course I have seen the 747 picture, way too small. I am glad they fixed it, the Merlin and the Bombers.
I can't wait till they update the rest.
It wasn't a fix, it was a workaround for clipping issues. The clipping is fixed at the cost of an almost 3 times larger than average frigate hull size and tiny guns. Plus the launcher redundancy is still there as it was on the Drake before they remodeled it. The Bombers also were not "fixed". They redesigned the T1 variants to fit the Cruise missile launchers. Very good redesigns btw.
I doubt they will triple the size of other frigates. The concept of an interceptor with a control bridge instead of a cockipt is ridiculous imo.
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Alara IonStorm
2917
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Posted - 2012.08.09 06:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
TheNotYou wrote: It wasn't a fix, it was a workaround for clipping issues. The clipping is fixed at the cost of an almost 3 times larger than average frigate hull size and tiny guns. Plus the launcher redundancy is still there as it was on the Drake before they remodeled it. The Bombers also were not "fixed". They redesigned the T1 variants to fit the torpedo launchers. Very good redesigns btw.
I doubt they will triple the size of other frigates. The concept of an interceptor with a control bridge instead of a cockipt is ridiculous imo.
All interceptors craft have been up sized as well as the Dram. Executioner has more then doubled in length, Slasher is about 100m now. Merlin is about 100m, Dram is over 100m. Kestrel, Breacher and Purifier are all +100m. Oh, Vigil is big as well as the Griffon.
They haven't done the Incursus or Punisher yet. Most of Gallente and Amarr are still small.
Looks like the Ceptor Size ones are going to around 60 and the Combat ones around 100. Breacher is huge compared to the Rifter now and my Atron is not far off the Rifter either.
Lotta resizing in this patch. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Toxic Waste Industries
128
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Posted - 2012.08.09 06:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Shukuzen Kiraa wrote:Rifter isn't to large, Destroyers are too small.
Thrasher is bigger than most cruisers....
Anyway... Scale of all ships need to be redone all at one, by the same group of people or else it's just going to continue to get worse and worse as we have seen with this most recent patch.
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Caitlyn Tufy
Refuge of Hope Lemniskate
34
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Posted - 2012.08.09 06:34:00 -
[27] - Quote
Shukuzen Kiraa wrote:Rifter isn't to large, Destroyers are too small.
Coercer is almost the same size as Tengu and Thrasher's actually bigger than all Minmatar cruisers, how's that too small? |
TheNotYou
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.08.09 12:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Seems like CCP decided to give up of a reasonable scale once and for all. A 100m long interceptor? Look at the Slasher design. That means the cockpit has about 10 cubic meters at least. Why such ship would need so much room? What I admire the most is the fact that if we didn't had a CQ those discrepancies wouldn't be so evident. How can they **** up immersion this way after introducing a feature to improve it?
Small ships are meant to be small. Interceptors or any other frigate for the matter are related to fighter ships on sci-fi space warfare. And even if they are not meant to relate to fighters, wich I doubt due to that ship class role in the game, no combat ship has a control room that huge for a single person because it increases hull vulnerability. So either the scaling is wrong or design is wrong. Take your pick. Mine is scaling. Sure, in the end we can always use our imagination and justify it with some futuristic absurd argument that has nothing of scientific about. Let's try not to resort to that. |
Richard Crisson
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2012.08.09 18:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
TheNotYou wrote:Seems like CCP decided to give up of a reasonable scale once and for all. A 100m long interceptor? Look at the Slasher design. That means the cockpit has about 10 cubic meters at least. Why such ship would need so much room? What I admire the most is the fact that if we didn't had a CQ those discrepancies wouldn't be so evident. How can they **** up immersion this way after introducing a feature to improve it?
Small ships are meant to be small. Interceptors or any other frigate for the matter are related to fighter ships on sci-fi space warfare. And even if they are not meant to relate to fighters, wich I doubt due to that ship class role in the game, no combat ship has a control room that huge for a single person because it increases hull vulnerability. So either the scaling is wrong or design is wrong. Take your pick. Mine is scaling. Sure, in the end we can always use our imagination and justify it with some futuristic absurd argument that has nothing of scientific about. Let's try not to resort to that.
This is a little different context, but look at Mass Effect. The Normandy, main ship in that game, is considered a frigate. It has a crew of a few dozen and is quite large compared to the "fighters" of Star Wars fame. |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
92
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Posted - 2012.08.09 20:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
TheNotYou wrote:Seems like CCP decided to give up of a reasonable scale once and for all. A 100m long interceptor? Look at the Slasher design. That means the cockpit has about 10 cubic meters at least. Why such ship would need so much room? What I admire the most is the fact that if we didn't had a CQ those discrepancies wouldn't be so evident. How can they **** up immersion this way after introducing a feature to improve it?
Small ships are meant to be small. Interceptors or any other frigate for the matter are related to fighter ships on sci-fi space warfare. And even if they are not meant to relate to fighters, wich I doubt due to that ship class role in the game, no combat ship has a control room that huge for a single person because it increases hull vulnerability. So either the scaling is wrong or design is wrong. Take your pick. Mine is scaling. Sure, in the end we can always use our imagination and justify it with some futuristic absurd argument that has nothing of scientific about. Let's try not to resort to that.
Eve does have fighters and fighter bomber size craft.. carriers and supercarriers deply them.. |
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