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Napoleon Baleine
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Napoleon Baleine on 19/10/2010 17:10:15 There's been a lot of high-profile ganks and scams in recent months, and it seems that every time one is reported the headline reads "x player destroyed internet spaceship worth $y". Take the recent Paladin kill for an example... Massively had it on their headlines reading "EVE player loses $1200 ship" (it has since been taken down but it's still at the end of the article: http://www.massively.com/2010/10/10/questionable-eve-attack-deals-30-billion-isk-in-damage/).
Now, obviously you can convert real money into ISK... but it's completely unreasonable to assume that that Paladin pilot bought $1200 worth of plex just to get a 30b ship. It's misleading. He would have made that money through endeavours in-game. You can make enough money to buy a plex from 4 hours of level 4s if you know what you are doing... so why are we attaching such ridiculous real-world value to virtual objects that are so easily obtained through playing the game? Think how filthy rich we would all be if we could convert ISK to the meaningless value we give it in real life.
Another example: this PC Gamer article (http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/12/eve-online-video-shows-15000-space-battle/), endorsed by CCP on their EVE Facebook, tells of a "$15,000 space battle". This is the one that really ticks me off...
The bottom line is you can't equate in-game items to real money just because there is a system in place that allows you to buy in-game money. Maybe CCP think it will grab the attention of new customers who will be impressed by what's at stake... but the generic MMO player would probably be turned away by the fact that they could lose huge assets to some hisec griefers. Let us be honest and say that most MMO players are used to getting things handed to them on a plate in themepark MMOs and are very rarely exposed to risk. I often see comments on Massively from people saying "this is exactly why I will never play EVE".
tl;dr stop placing real-world value on internet spaceships and just play the freaking game.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:09:00 -
[2]
By my calculations you owe me $10 for reading this whine.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:10:00 -
[3]
The purpose is to give people who don't play the game something familiar and concrete to compare it to, so they can form some kind of a basic idea about the significance of the events in question.
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Napoleon Baleine
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:13:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue The purpose is to give people who don't play the game something familiar and concrete to compare it to, so they can form some kind of a basic idea about the significance of the events in question.
My argument is that you can't compare it... Maybe they could cite the number of people involved, or just stick with ships destroyed... but saying ev0ke's aborted titans and other destroyed assets have the same value as a brand new economy car is pointless. There is no correlation.
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Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:18:00 -
[5]
By having any mechanic to convert real life money to isk even if it's only one way you establish an exchange rate, regardless of whether you can convert isk back to real life money or not. And real money is a much simpler concept to those not familiar with the game.
I agree there are downsides to doing it, such as the implication that you lose real money when you play, or attracting people who may think they can use the game as a way to make money and by doing so indirectly encouraging real money trading - but you can't argue that it makes a better headline to the uninitiated.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:18:00 -
[6]
Isk is real money:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_kr%C3%B3na
How much you want to bed the devs decided to call the in game currency isk so they could pick up chicks at bars by telling them they were worth billions of isk?
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Napoleon Baleine
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Makko Gray By having any mechanic to convert real life money to isk even if it's only one way you establish an exchange rate, regardless of whether you can convert isk back to real life money or not. And real money is a much simpler concept to those not familiar with the game.
I agree there are downsides to doing it, such as the implication that you lose real money when you play, or attracting people who may think they can use the game as a way to make money and by doing so indirectly encouraging real money trading - but you can't argue that it makes a better headline to the uninitiated.
Sure, the uninitiated, but when they are preaching to the converted I find it rather patronizing.
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Zions Child
Caldari Carthage Industries Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Barakkus Isk is real money:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_kr%C3%B3na
How much you want to bed the devs decided to call the in game currency isk so they could pick up chicks at bars by telling them they were worth billions of isk?
This TBQH
Originally by: CCP Shadow *snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
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Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:24:00 -
[9]
Game money for ALL games contaminated by "Gold Farmers" has a cold, hard, REAL WORLD exchange rate.
Its that simple.
EULA violation or not, if there is an actual exchange rate, then the game money can be compared to dollars, or pounds, or yen....etc...
Its not a matter of approving (I don't) or not approving. It just "is".
On a more ammusing note, in one of the several serious articles published on game economics over the years, it was pointed out that money such as Eve Isk, or WoW gold is in many ways better "money" than a fairly large number of real world currencys.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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VinLieger
Caldari StoneDogS Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Napoleon Baleine Edited by: Napoleon Baleine on 19/10/2010 17:10:15 There's been a lot of high-profile ganks and scams in recent months, and it seems that every time one is reported the headline reads "x player destroyed internet spaceship worth $y". Take the recent Paladin kill for an example... Massively had it on their headlines reading "EVE player loses $1200 ship" (it has since been taken down but it's still at the end of the article: http://www.massively.com/2010/10/10/questionable-eve-attack-deals-30-billion-isk-in-damage/).
Now, obviously you can convert real money into ISK... but it's completely unreasonable to assume that that Paladin pilot bought $1200 worth of plex just to get a 30b ship. It's misleading. He would have made that money through endeavours in-game. You can make enough money to buy a plex from 4 hours of level 4s if you know what you are doing... so why are we attaching such ridiculous real-world value to virtual objects that are so easily obtained through playing the game? Think how filthy rich we would all be if we could convert ISK to the meaningless value we give it in real life.
Another example: this PC Gamer article (http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/12/eve-online-video-shows-15000-space-battle/), endorsed by CCP on their EVE Facebook, tells of a "$15,000 space battle". This is the one that really ticks me off...
The bottom line is you can't equate in-game items to real money just because there is a system in place that allows you to buy in-game money. Maybe CCP think it will grab the attention of new customers who will be impressed by what's at stake... but the generic MMO player would probably be turned away by the fact that they could lose huge assets to some hisec griefers. Let us be honest and say that most MMO players are used to getting things handed to them on a plate in themepark MMOs and are very rarely exposed to risk. I often see comments on Massively from people saying "this is exactly why I will never play EVE".
tl;dr stop placing real-world value on internet spaceships and just play the freaking game.
If the generic MMO player is turned away by actually losing something in a game then its all the better for eve. EvE is a different breed to most other games out there in that all the time and effort you put in can be wiped out in a instant and that is part of the appeal to alot of the players. The simple fact is that these articles translate it into dollars to give a frame of reference to those who dont play the game, stating how many players were involved or how many ships were destroyed doesnt help those who dont play relate to the story as they are probably used to seeing 12 million players being quoted for wow and will scoff at 1000 player battles or have no idea what goes into the construction of the different ships in EvE. Maybe just get over yourself and play the game instead of complaining about stories giving the game positive coverage -----------------------
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Jennifer Starling
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:27:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue The purpose is to give people who don't play the game something familiar and concrete to compare it to, so they can form some kind of a basic idea about the significance of the events in question.
Yes. You can also ask yourself how much $ it will cost to replace the ship at current plex prices. Not really unrealistic imo.
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Napoleon Baleine
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:27:00 -
[12]
Ok fair enough, it does have an exchange rate... but it's not 300 mil = $15. It would be at least half that.
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Feilamya
Pain Elemental
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:29:00 -
[13]
ISK is a harvestable resource with zero weight and volume that travels at infinite speed to whereever you need it. It is used as a currency because of its unique physical properties. It is valuable as a raw material for building BPOs, skill books and salvaging devices that can be used to extract ISK from ships when they blow up.
Dollars are something completely different.
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Napoleon Baleine
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue The purpose is to give people who don't play the game something familiar and concrete to compare it to, so they can form some kind of a basic idea about the significance of the events in question.
Yes. You can also ask yourself how much $ it will cost to replace the ship at current plex prices. Not really unrealistic imo.
If you lost a supercarrier would you go buy ~40 plexes to replace it?
Hell, if you lost any ship, would you buy a plex to replace it?
That would be a slippery slope to bankruptcy.
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Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Napoleon Baleine Ok fair enough, it does have an exchange rate... but it's not 300 mil = $15. It would be at least half that.
2 plex cost about $35 each selling for around 375 mil currently so actually it's more than you say at roughly 320 mil = $15
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Amanda Mor
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Napoleon Baleine Edited by: Napoleon Baleine on 19/10/2010 17:10:15 There's been a lot of high-profile ganks and scams in recent months, and it seems that every time one is reported the headline reads "x player destroyed internet spaceship worth $y". Take the recent Paladin kill for an example... Massively had it on their headlines reading "EVE player loses $1200 ship" (it has since been taken down but it's still at the end of the article: http://www.massively.com/2010/10/10/questionable-eve-attack-deals-30-billion-isk-in-damage/).
Now, obviously you can convert real money into ISK... but it's completely unreasonable to assume that that Paladin pilot bought $1200 worth of plex just to get a 30b ship. It's misleading. He would have made that money through endeavours in-game. You can make enough money to buy a plex from 4 hours of level 4s if you know what you are doing... so why are we attaching such ridiculous real-world value to virtual objects that are so easily obtained through playing the game? Think how filthy rich we would all be if we could convert ISK to the meaningless value we give it in real life.
Another example: this PC Gamer article (http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/12/eve-online-video-shows-15000-space-battle/), endorsed by CCP on their EVE Facebook, tells of a "$15,000 space battle". This is the one that really ticks me off...
The bottom line is you can't equate in-game items to real money just because there is a system in place that allows you to buy in-game money. Maybe CCP think it will grab the attention of new customers who will be impressed by what's at stake... but the generic MMO player would probably be turned away by the fact that they could lose huge assets to some hisec griefers. Let us be honest and say that most MMO players are used to getting things handed to them on a plate in themepark MMOs and are very rarely exposed to risk. I often see comments on Massively from people saying "this is exactly why I will never play EVE".
tl;dr stop placing real-world value on internet spaceships and just play the freaking game.
Why do you care about this? Seriously, why? Are you one of those people that goes out of his way to find things that have no effect on you so you can pretend to be all aggrieved about them? What possible reason would you have to be upset about this? ---------------------------------------------- I don't have an alt, but there's a main that would be upset if he heard me say that... |
Napoleon Baleine
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Makko Gray
Originally by: Napoleon Baleine Ok fair enough, it does have an exchange rate... but it's not 300 mil = $15. It would be at least half that.
2 plex cost about $35 each selling for around 375 mil currently so actually it's more than you say at roughly 320 mil = $15
Lets not forget that a PLEX adds game time. It's not liquid ISK. It may be consumed without being exchanged for in-game items. Your value assumes that a player buys PLEX just to sell them on the market for ISK... I doubt there is a single player who does that. My value is based off EVE RMT sites that I just googled (don't worry, I didn't actually navigate to them - no keyloggers for me).
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Napoleon Baleine
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Amanda Mor Why do you care about this? Seriously, why? Are you one of those people that goes out of his way to find things that have no effect on you so you can pretend to be all aggrieved about them? What possible reason would you have to be upset about this?
I find it annoying because there is no relationship between $ and ISK in the way people who use this method of advertising would like you to believe.
How about an analogy...
It's like buying Microsoft Windows off the Microsoft official website for an obscene amount of money when you can buy it at the store for less, or if you're a student, get it dirt cheap.
In the Paladin context, they are trying to overvalue it when the more legitimate way to obtain it is much easier and cheaper.
It's misleading and just pointless.
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Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Napoleon Baleine
Originally by: Makko Gray
Originally by: Napoleon Baleine Ok fair enough, it does have an exchange rate... but it's not 300 mil = $15. It would be at least half that.
2 plex cost about $35 each selling for around 375 mil currently so actually it's more than you say at roughly 320 mil = $15
Lets not forget that a PLEX adds game time. It's not liquid ISK. It may be consumed without being exchanged for in-game items. Your value assumes that a player buys PLEX just to sell them on the market for ISK... I doubt there is a single player who does that. My value is based off EVE RMT sites that I just googled (don't worry, I didn't actually navigate to them - no keyloggers for me).
It's true I did only base my rate on the legitimate means of exchange and as has been said and exchange rate will form where there are any means of exchange not just where there is a legitamate one. But that hardly going to be used for PR.
As for assuming a player buys plex just to sell on the market, I would think there are plenty who only buy plex for that. Surely if you've already paid for your game time there little other use for it. Besides the exchange rate is determined in the market regardless of other uses for plex, and if plex suddenly started selling at 500mil isk that'd be the new exchange rate and it is perfectly open to in game manipulation by anyone with enough isk.
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Napoleon Baleine Edited by: Napoleon Baleine on 19/10/2010 17:10:15 There's been a lot of high-profile ganks and scams in recent months, and it seems that every time one is reported the headline reads "x player destroyed internet spaceship worth $y". Take the recent Paladin kill for an example... Massively had it on their headlines reading "EVE player loses $1200 ship" (it has since been taken down but it's still at the end of the article: http://www.massively.com/2010/10/10/questionable-eve-attack-deals-30-billion-isk-in-damage/).
Now, obviously you can convert real money into ISK... but it's completely unreasonable to assume that that Paladin pilot bought $1200 worth of plex just to get a 30b ship. It's misleading. He would have made that money through endeavours in-game. You can make enough money to buy a plex from 4 hours of level 4s if you know what you are doing... so why are we attaching such ridiculous real-world value to virtual objects that are so easily obtained through playing the game? Think how filthy rich we would all be if we could convert ISK to the meaningless value we give it in real life.
Another example: this PC Gamer article (http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/12/eve-online-video-shows-15000-space-battle/), endorsed by CCP on their EVE Facebook, tells of a "$15,000 space battle". This is the one that really ticks me off...
The bottom line is you can't equate in-game items to real money just because there is a system in place that allows you to buy in-game money. Maybe CCP think it will grab the attention of new customers who will be impressed by what's at stake... but the generic MMO player would probably be turned away by the fact that they could lose huge assets to some hisec griefers. Let us be honest and say that most MMO players are used to getting things handed to them on a plate in themepark MMOs and are very rarely exposed to risk. I often see comments on Massively from people saying "this is exactly why I will never play EVE".
tl;dr stop placing real-world value on internet spaceships and just play the freaking game.
You can make the comparison, it isn't always accurate in that not everyone spent that amount or any money to get x items but the point is to grab readers attention and bring home the 'consequences' of the 'loss'. Some negatives about that kind of portrayal is it makes people who play those games look like idiots to those who don't for 'spending that much money on a game' or 'losing that much money' it also makes it seem as though you could spend $ to get items, ie cash shop.
--Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.-- |
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.19 17:58:00 -
[21]
The entire reason of equating isk to $ is to give the average reader, who has no experience with the game or other MMOs, a reference point to understand the value of whatever it is they are talking about.
So in essence quit with the QQ and just ignore it.
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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Nobzy
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Posted - 2010.10.19 18:02:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Nobzy on 19/10/2010 18:04:51
Scenario: I have grinded about 1500 hours, at a stable 20 million isk per hour. That equals 30 billion isk in about 62.5 full days.
I buy a shiny paladin and extreme fit it with all my 30 billion isk. I fly sometime with it, and I get bored with it. I decide to go against the EULA and sell my account containing only my char and the said ship, and I dont want any compensation for the character. According to the exchange rate between isk and Ç that CCP has established through the PLEX system, my account would be worth 1286 euros. And because I'm a fair trader, I will take it down a notch and ask a flat 1200Ç.
Some 12 year old runs off to ask his daddy for his credit card and buys my account for 1200Ç, and quite possibly gets banned soon after. I for one, am about 1200Ç richer.
Since this is possible, realistic, doable and is BEING done, I'd say it's quite correct to assign a real currency value to in-game events.
Although the real truth is, RMT sites push the prices down I assume, so the price due to competition might be actually somewhat below. I'm not an expert on illegal RMT businesses >.>
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.10.19 18:06:00 -
[23]
So in conclusion we have found out that strange people can be annoyed by strange things.
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Dhaul
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.19 18:37:00 -
[24]
If you were not an EVE player, which of the following statement is more meaningful to you?
1. EVE Online player destroys 30 billion ISK ship
or
2. EVE Online player destroys $1,200 ship
If your target audience has more non EVE players than EVE player which are you going to pick?
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Yuki Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2010.10.19 18:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Brian Ballsack So in conclusion we have found out that strange people can be annoyed by strange things.
empty quoting
Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
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MasterEnt
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Posted - 2010.10.19 20:00:00 -
[26]
Edited by: MasterEnt on 19/10/2010 20:02:58
Originally by: baltec1 By my calculations you owe me $10 for reading this whine.
LOL - OP needs to learn the valuable equation - Time = Money No to mention the PLEX system pretty much makes a direct ISK = $ link
POST - Its not our perception issues - its your acceptance issue.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.10.19 20:09:00 -
[27]
There is a valid exchange rate, and terms put in dollars will have far more meaning to an average non-eve playing reader than X number of spacebucks. Just because someone earned their spacebucks in-game does not mean those spacebucks weren't worth dollars.
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Palovana
Caldari Inner Fire Inc.
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Posted - 2010.10.19 20:22:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Barakkus Isk is real money:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_kr%C3%B3na
How much you want to bed the devs decided to call the in game currency isk so they could pick up chicks at bars by telling them they were worth billions of isk?
From what I understand, most of the devs are male, so I don't want to bed them.
But if you're referring to a wager, I'd put some ISK on it.
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.10.19 21:33:00 -
[29]
As per above, people can and do sell ISK so it has monetary value. And the replacement cost - legitimately buying plexes - is fixed.
Exaggeration is common. Law enforcement agencies always talk about the "street value" of the bust, not the wholesale value. Articles always use the retail not wholesale value of events; a $1000m event is more interesting than a $100m event. People frequently use the most favorable measurements for their income, IQ, and endowment.
Originally by: Napoleon Baleine
If you lost a supercarrier would you go buy ~40 plexes to replace it? Hell, if you lost any ship, would you buy a plex to replace it? That would be a slippery slope to bankruptcy.
Well, someone was reported as having spent $100,000 of his [father's] money; presumably some of that went towards capitals. If I had access to a billion dollars, I hope I would make Nero and Caligula blush, but I could see getting a FOTM SC or two.
40 plexes is $700. Which may be a lot for you or I but not for the first-up-against-the-wall-when-the-revolution-comes crowd. A fantastic bottle of wine costs more than that. Two first class tickets from London to Tokyo costs almost as much as 1500 plexes. Many of the hundreds of private jets in the air now cost a plex every ten seconds. There are poker hands with the equivalent to over 30,000 plexes in them. On a weekend there can be dozens of various gambling tables at any one time in a large casino where people have more than $700 bet. Spending $700 a few times a year does not make EVE a relatively expensive hobby. Even videogamers who play games that take advantage of DX11 SLI multicore I7 can spend thousands more to gain an ingame advantage over opponents with a DX9 laptop.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2010.10.19 21:42:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Palovana
Originally by: Barakkus Isk is real money:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_kr%C3%B3na
How much you want to bed the devs decided to call the in game currency isk so they could pick up chicks at bars by telling them they were worth billions of isk?
From what I understand, most of the devs are male, so I don't want to bed them.
But if you're referring to a wager, I'd put some ISK on it.
Lol, I suck at typing lately unfortunately :(
Originally by: captain foivos Who would recruit someone named Barakkus?
Wait a minute...
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