EVE Search - Training Amarr: Will This Bite me in the Ass?

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Richard Crisson wrote:

Kahega Amielden wrote:

Quote:

So would you recommend not going up to Cruisers in the meantime? I mean, I'm fine sticking with Frigates and Destroyers for a while, and I really dislike drones which is why I didn't mention the Arbitrator in the OP.

All races' ships of cruiser and up will need drone skills. They're an important source of supplementary damage and one of the primary defense against ships that you cannot hit with larger-sized guns.

That said, you could definitely do that. Amarr has some pretty great assault frigates, and if you ever wanted to get into larger ships there's no reason why you couldn't just skip t1 cruisers and go for a Harbinger (but you shouldn't do that without drone skills).

So they're unavoidable huh? Hmmm... That stinks. I had a really bad first impression because of the user interface regarding drones, they just seem incredibly clunky in their use. If I need to use them I guess I can just suck it up though. Thanks btw, you're being fairly in-depth and help like that is necessary to learn a game this huge.

Just because I like peeing in Kahega's cereal, I'm going to point out that the Maller does not field drones. However, both the Omen and the Arbitrator (which is particularly popular) both do, with the Arbitrator even getting drone bonuses.

Still, most of Kahega's advice is good. I would add one thing: learn how lasers work and use them properly. That is, lasers have great optimal range, but little falloff and tracking. To use them right, you need to stay as far away from the target while still in your optimal range, and sometimes not even orbit them (to help with tracking). This is rather difficult to do, particularly on frigates, but if you master it, you earn the right to make fun of anyone who says lasers don't have enough damage or otherwise suck.

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Richard Crisson University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 15:11:00 - [1] - Quote I'm training to be an Amarr ship pilot primarily, as I've heard that you need to focus on one race as you start off so that you can "catch up" in the smaller ship classes in that race at least. I don't plan on rushing to Battleships, I want to stick to Cruisers, Destroyers, and Frigates for a while, get really good at those before thinking of moving forward. (I also don't want to wait like, a year to even get to PvP.) Everything I've read has said that Amarr is great from BC and above, but as you can tell that isn't my goal. Is training Amarr going to come back to bite me, or will I still be able to wreck face and have fun in a Maller or Omen? Is the Crusader a decent frigate? Etc, I just don't want to be gimping myself.
L'ouris Have Naught Subsidiaries 55	Posted - 2012.08.02 15:17:00 - [2] - Quote Navy slicer is awesome. Punishers are fun. Youll be fine :)
Cyd Barrett Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 15:18:00 - [3] - Quote You certainly wont have to wait a year to get into PvP. In fact you can start off in PvP almost immediately. Your best success will be in a roaming blob/gang or on a gate camp, however. If your vision of PvP is solo roaming around space owning everything in sight, that is a completely different story. That said, Amarr is not the easiest/quickest to train for, but they are by no means gimped when it comes to PvP. If you are looking to get into PvP and would like some assistance in this, I recommend taking the course OUCH offers. It's open to anyone interested, regardless of SP. You just need to follow the rules and have a little patience. It's a great way of easing into the PvP side of things and by the time you are done, flying around in low/null sec will not be as worrisome. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7370&find=unread
Richard Crisson University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 15:20:00 - [4] - Quote Cyd Barrett wrote: You certainly wont have to wait a year to get into PvP. In fact you can start off in PvP almost immediately. Your best success will be in a roaming blob/gang or on a gate camp, however. If your vision of PvP is solo roaming around space owning everything in sight, that is a completely different story. That said, Amarr is not the easiest/quickest to train for, but they are by no means gimped when it comes to PvP. I plan on getting into an Alliance as soon as I can narrow down what I want (Don't want to corp hop) and I really want to get into group warfare. The only thing is that I've read repeatedly that "Amarr sucks below Battleships."
Richard Crisson University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 15:22:00 - [5] - Quote L'ouris wrote: Navy slicer is awesome. Punishers are fun. Youll be fine :) What would it take to get a Punisher ready for PvP and what kind of targets can one realistically go for? Frigate damage compared to even a destroyer seems really low, but my inexperience may be lowering the value of speed in my eyes.
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 459	Posted - 2012.08.02 15:45:00 - [6] - Quote Quote: What would it take to get a Punisher ready for PvP and what kind of targets can one realistically go for? Frigate damage compared to even a destroyer seems really low, but my inexperience may be lowering the value of speed in my eyes. Destroyers will murder a t1 frigate 1v1 in most circumstances, yes. The upside of a frigate is that it's fast enough to easily evade anything destroyer+ that will kill it. You pretty much get to choose your engagements. Now, if you're flying a t1 frigate with t1/meta fittings, you're going to have a hard time 1v1ing anything directly. There are definitely other t1 frigates out there, but they're often piloted by veterans with t2 fittings which will give them an edge. Of course, you can still get kills (Veteran players can often kill much more expensive ships in their t1 frigates) but it requires you have good knowledge of ships and what they generally fly like, as well as the ability to pilot your own ship properly. If you get a ton of cheaply-fit t1 frigs and go out and fight stuff with them, you will, admittedly, probably not kill as many things as things that kill you. However, it will teach you what ships are out there and how to pilot your own ship to counter them, which is extremely valuable to learn. The reason cheap-fit t1 frigs are good for this is because it teaches you to fight against superior odds, and, most importantly...it's basically free. You can lose as many ships as you want and pretty much never go broke. And who knows. Eventually your own skill and/or another pilot's mistakes will shine through to get something rather satisfying. A newbie who joined my corp, just a few days old at the time, killed a Cyclone (Minmatar battlecruiser) on a stargate with a t1-fit rifter. Now, while T1 frigates with t1 fittings lack killing power alone, in a group they're nasty. They're cheap enough that you can throw them into the meat grinder to get very expensive kills, and they're fast enough that they can catch stuff easily. For this and a ton of other reasons I'd advise getting into PVP at a corp level. Now, regarding Amarr specifically: The frigate/destroyer lineup is solid, though the Coercer is decidedly a gang ship. The battlecruiser and battleship lines are similarly great. The only area where Amarr current has a weakness is the cruiser line. With the exception of the Arbitrator (which is great), the Amarrian t1 cruisers are pretty bleh. However, CCP is currently in the middle of a massive rebalancing initiative which is already hitting the frigate lines of all the races...So expect this to change
Richard Crisson University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 15:57:00 - [7] - Quote [quote=Kahega Amielden] Quote: -snip- So would you recommend not going up to Cruisers in the meantime? I mean, I'm fine sticking with Frigates and Destroyers for a while, and I really dislike drones which is why I didn't mention the Arbitrator in the OP.
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 459	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:00:00 - [8] - Quote Quote: So would you recommend not going up to Cruisers in the meantime? I mean, I'm fine sticking with Frigates and Destroyers for a while, and I really dislike drones which is why I didn't mention the Arbitrator in the OP. All races' ships of cruiser and up will need drone skills. They're an important source of supplementary damage and one of the primary defense against ships that you cannot hit with larger-sized guns. That said, you could definitely do that. Amarr has some pretty great assault frigates, and if you ever wanted to get into larger ships there's no reason why you couldn't just skip t1 cruisers and go for a Harbinger (but you shouldn't do that without drone skills).
Richard Crisson University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:03:00 - [9] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: Quote: So would you recommend not going up to Cruisers in the meantime? I mean, I'm fine sticking with Frigates and Destroyers for a while, and I really dislike drones which is why I didn't mention the Arbitrator in the OP. All races' ships of cruiser and up will need drone skills. They're an important source of supplementary damage and one of the primary defense against ships that you cannot hit with larger-sized guns. That said, you could definitely do that. Amarr has some pretty great assault frigates, and if you ever wanted to get into larger ships there's no reason why you couldn't just skip t1 cruisers and go for a Harbinger (but you shouldn't do that without drone skills). So they're unavoidable huh? Hmmm... That stinks. I had a really bad first impression because of the user interface regarding drones, they just seem incredibly clunky in their use. If I need to use them I guess I can just suck it up though. Thanks btw, you're being fairly in-depth and help like that is necessary to learn a game this huge.
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 459	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:05:00 - [10] - Quote Quote: So they're unavoidable huh? Hmmm... That stinks. I had a really bad first impression because of the user interface regarding drones, they just seem incredibly clunky in their use. If I need to use them I guess I can just suck it up though. They're not too bad to deal with. Right click -> launch drones, ctrl + E to engage, ctrl + r to return. Dedicated droneboats -are- harder, though, as you have to micromanage more types of drones as opposed to most ships which only have a flight or two. Quote: Thanks btw, you're being fairly in-depth and help like that is necessary to learn a game this huge. Frigate PVP happens to be my specialty and I take any opportunity to throw walls of text at people.

Richard Crisson University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:08:00 - [11] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: Quote: So they're unavoidable huh? Hmmm... That stinks. I had a really bad first impression because of the user interface regarding drones, they just seem incredibly clunky in their use. If I need to use them I guess I can just suck it up though. They're not too bad to deal with. Right click -> launch drones, ctrl + E to engage, ctrl + r to return. Dedicated droneboats -are- harder, though, as you have to micromanage more types of drones as opposed to most ships which only have a flight or two. Quote: Thanks btw, you're being fairly in-depth and help like that is necessary to learn a game this huge. Frigate PVP happens to be my specialty and I take any opportunity to throw walls of text at people. Quick question regarding them then: What can a pilot do DURING a fight in order to give themselves an advantage? As far as I can tell fittings decide a lot of a ships power, but I'm wondering if there are certain manual maneuvers or other such things that a pilot should focus on while the lasers are flying.
Petrus Blackshell Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 1391	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:12:00 - [12] - Quote Richard Crisson wrote: Kahega Amielden wrote: Quote: So would you recommend not going up to Cruisers in the meantime? I mean, I'm fine sticking with Frigates and Destroyers for a while, and I really dislike drones which is why I didn't mention the Arbitrator in the OP. All races' ships of cruiser and up will need drone skills. They're an important source of supplementary damage and one of the primary defense against ships that you cannot hit with larger-sized guns. That said, you could definitely do that. Amarr has some pretty great assault frigates, and if you ever wanted to get into larger ships there's no reason why you couldn't just skip t1 cruisers and go for a Harbinger (but you shouldn't do that without drone skills). So they're unavoidable huh? Hmmm... That stinks. I had a really bad first impression because of the user interface regarding drones, they just seem incredibly clunky in their use. If I need to use them I guess I can just suck it up though. Thanks btw, you're being fairly in-depth and help like that is necessary to learn a game this huge. Just because I like peeing in Kahega's cereal, I'm going to point out that the Maller does not field drones. However, both the Omen and the Arbitrator (which is particularly popular) both do, with the Arbitrator even getting drone bonuses. Still, most of Kahega's advice is good. I would add one thing: learn how lasers work and use them properly. That is, lasers have great optimal range, but little falloff and tracking. To use them right, you need to stay as far away from the target while still in your optimal range, and sometimes not even orbit them (to help with tracking). This is rather difficult to do, particularly on frigates, but if you master it, you earn the right to make fun of anyone who says lasers don't have enough damage or otherwise suck. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members!
Richard Crisson University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:15:00 - [13] - Quote Petrus Blackshell wrote: Richard Crisson wrote: Kahega Amielden wrote: Quote: So would you recommend not going up to Cruisers in the meantime? I mean, I'm fine sticking with Frigates and Destroyers for a while, and I really dislike drones which is why I didn't mention the Arbitrator in the OP. All races' ships of cruiser and up will need drone skills. They're an important source of supplementary damage and one of the primary defense against ships that you cannot hit with larger-sized guns. That said, you could definitely do that. Amarr has some pretty great assault frigates, and if you ever wanted to get into larger ships there's no reason why you couldn't just skip t1 cruisers and go for a Harbinger (but you shouldn't do that without drone skills). So they're unavoidable huh? Hmmm... That stinks. I had a really bad first impression because of the user interface regarding drones, they just seem incredibly clunky in their use. If I need to use them I guess I can just suck it up though. Thanks btw, you're being fairly in-depth and help like that is necessary to learn a game this huge. Just because I like peeing in Kahega's cereal, I'm going to point out that the Maller does not field drones. However, both the Omen and the Arbitrator (which is particularly popular) both do, with the Arbitrator even getting drone bonuses. Still, most of Kahega's advice is good. I would add one thing: learn how lasers work and use them properly. That is, lasers have great optimal range, but little falloff and tracking. To use them right, you need to stay as far away from the target while still in your optimal range, and sometimes not even orbit them (to help with tracking). This is rather difficult to do, particularly on frigates, but if you master it, you earn the right to make fun of anyone who says lasers don't have enough damage or otherwise suck. Keeping still is something different than what I've been doing. What's the best tool to keep still while sniping with lasers, keep at range?
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 459	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:16:00 - [14] - Quote Quote: Just because I like peeing in Kahega's cereal, I'm going to point out that the Maller does not field drones. However, both the Omen and the Arbitrator (which is particularly popular) both do, with the Arbitrator even getting drone bonuses. It's the only cruiser in the game that doesn't use drones and it also happens to be terrible. Quote: Quick question regarding them then: What can a pilot do DURING a fight in order to give themselves an advantage? As far as I can tell fittings decide a lot of a ships power, but I'm wondering if there are certain manual maneuvers or other such things that a pilot should focus on while the lasers are flying. As Petrus said, you need to learn the properties of your ship and the weapons they use. For example, while pulse lasers have fantastic damage projection and high damage, they have poor tracking. Winning a fight against a Rifter, for example, would depend on you being able to keep him at arm's length.
Petrus Blackshell Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 1391	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:20:00 - [15] - Quote Richard Crisson wrote: Keeping still is something different than what I've been doing. What's the best tool to keep still while sniping with lasers, keep at range? If your engagement range is within 10 km, try to use an afterburner, warp scrambler, and web (in that order of priority; scram not necessary in PvE). Otherwise, just use a microwarpdrive or afterburner and stay as far away from the 0-10 km range as possible (to not get scrammed/webbed yourself). If fighting an enemy that is slower than yourself: use the "Keep at Distance" command for your ship, and set it to slightly under your optimal. If you feel ballsy and think your lasers can track, you can also use "Orbit". If fighting an enemy that is faster than yourself: turn your AB/MWD on, web the enemy, and burn in a straight line. This lowers their angular velocity and possibly increases average range to them, enabling your lasers to hit them better. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members!
Petrus Blackshell Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 1391	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:22:00 - [16] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: It's the only cruiser in the game that doesn't use drones and it also happens to be terrible. The Blackbird happens to use no drones and it also happens to be amazing. Your cereal is my toilet bowl. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members!
Richard Crisson University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:23:00 - [17] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: Quote: Just because I like peeing in Kahega's cereal, I'm going to point out that the Maller does not field drones. However, both the Omen and the Arbitrator (which is particularly popular) both do, with the Arbitrator even getting drone bonuses. It's the only cruiser in the game that doesn't use drones and it also happens to be terrible. Why is the Maller terrible? It's actually the ship I was aiming for lol
L'ouris Have Naught Subsidiaries 55	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:27:00 - [18] - Quote Richard Crisson wrote: L'ouris wrote: Navy slicer is awesome. Punishers are fun. Youll be fine :) What would it take to get a Punisher ready for PvP and what kind of targets can one realistically go for? Frigate damage compared to even a destroyer seems really low, but my inexperience may be lowering the value of speed in my eyes. Good advice already posted by others so I'll focus on the skill focus for your punisher class hulls: Cap skills ( especially now since it got a dmg bonus ) Nav skills Armor rigging Small turret support skills ( especially tracking and range ) Non-skill point stuff: Learn how to drag drones behind you by pulsing your prop mod. No web and not ideal tracking makes this an invaluable skill set Manual orbits ( punishes are tough little buggers, fish for bigger stuff and blaster frigs you can neut ) manual orbit will help stop someone flying straight to drag you out of orbit so they can blap you with their big guns.
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Ushra'Khan 459	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:30:00 - [19] - Quote Quote: Why is the Maller terrible? It's actually the ship I was aiming for lol No drones, doesn't have the fittings to even fit medium-sized guns effectively, and no damage bonus, meaning it's a brick that will never do any damage. It can tank like a boss, but that's not really enough for something to be worth flying in PVP
Cyd Barrett Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance 0	Posted - 2012.08.02 16:39:00 - [20] - Quote Richard Crisson wrote: Kahega Amielden wrote: Quote: Just because I like peeing in Kahega's cereal, I'm going to point out that the Maller does not field drones. However, both the Omen and the Arbitrator (which is particularly popular) both do, with the Arbitrator even getting drone bonuses. It's the only cruiser in the game that doesn't use drones and it also happens to be terrible. Why is the Maller terrible? It's actually the ship I was aiming for lol No drones is kind of a big deal. It severely limits what you are able to deal with. Handling drones is not difficult at all. Once they are in space, just have a couple hot-keys setup for Return and Orbit, Return to Drone Bay and Engage. Personally I have all three tied to one of my side mouse buttons with shift and ctrl being the modifier. I know you mentioned earlier you were not interested in joining an alliance until you get yourself situated, but I strongly recommend rethinking that, particularly with the Corp I recommended. It is not a PvP corp. It is a training corp. You take the courses and then leave to find an actual corp you want to spend your days with. The guys at OUCH will answer a lot of these types of questions and the time you spend on the bubble with them will make a lot of these questions go away very quickly.

Invisusira The Rising Stars The Volition Cult 75	Posted - 2012.08.03 01:14:00 - [21] - Quote Richard Crisson wrote: Kahega Amielden wrote: Quote: Just because I like peeing in Kahega's cereal, I'm going to point out that the Maller does not field drones. However, both the Omen and the Arbitrator (which is particularly popular) both do, with the Arbitrator even getting drone bonuses. It's the only cruiser in the game that doesn't use drones and it also happens to be terrible. Why is the Maller terrible? It's actually the ship I was aiming for lol Don't listen to the nay-sayers, the Maller can be a fun ship to PvP in. It's not overly common because it's slow and doesn't have much in the way of drones, but you can make a great heavy tackler or bait ship. Core Skills - train em up train em up!
Keno Skir Vectis Covert Solutions 154	Posted - 2012.08.03 11:34:00 - [22] - Quote Petrus Blackshell wrote: Your cereal is my toilet bowl. Haha, amazin The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why?

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