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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.08 20:30:00 -
[1]
This guide is to help bears avoid unwanted pvp. Many of these tactics are "frowned on" by pvpers. Smack in local accordingly.
Basic PvP avoidance:
First, keep up basic scouting. Create a safe spot near each gate you frequent. This spot should be 162-250k+ off the gate in a random direction. When you plan on warping out, warp to the safe, use directional scan to make sure no one is warping to you, then warp down to the gate. This both avoids bubbles and gives you a peek at the gate before you land on it.
Second, if you frequent low sec/0.0 join/create intel channels. Identify known gankers and ally with known "safe" corps to spot and pass on their movements/camps. Its tedious, but the gankers do it and so should you!
Third, avoid autopiloting, or if you must be lazy at least don't autopilot in t3s or expensive haulers without tank. And remember, a huge percent of all suicide ganks happen in or near a market hub (jita, dodixe) or major mission running hub (motsu, emolgraven).
Forth, don't be too rich. Gankers wet themselves over a golem or faction fit tengu kill and will happily gate camp for hours dreaming about killing you. But a basic drake and stealth bomber can do many jobs just as well for a fraction of the risk and cost. The less tempting you are, the less you will be harassed.
How to Run a Gatecamp/Stationcamp:
To understand how to run a gate/staion camp, you need to understand warp mechanics. To go into warp, you need to be aligned to a point and moving at ~80% or above of your max speed. This can be used in two primary ways.
First, fit a cloak (any type) and a mwd. When you warp into a hostile camp, click align, hit your mwd, then hit cloak. This will start your ship aligning while boosting your speed temporarily due to the mwd. After a few seconds pass and your ship has aligned and just before the MWD cycle has ended, decloak and warp. Because you are aligned and over 100% of your max speed (due to the mwd pulse just expiring), you will instantly pop into warp. This method is very difficult for a camp to stop because they have to physically bump into you and decloak you before your mwd cycle/align time ends. With a bit of practice, you can run most camps in a cruiser/bc or below hull.
Second, to run a station camp, create an "instawarp" bookmark. During a safe time, undock in a fast ship and fly 160-250k+ away from the station in a straight line. Next time you undock, your ship will be pushed out at above your max speed. Simply instantly warp to that spot -- because you are aligned and over 100% of your max speed due to being pushed out of the station, you should instantly warp faster than you can be targeted. You can also use a 2nd account to fleet warp and go into warp much faster (while the 1st account is still loading). Then go on your way.
While not foolproof, this will bypass the overwhelming majority of gate / station camps.
How to avoid a wardec:
First, in a time of peace create an alt to serve as CEO. This alt can be a market alt or such, but someone who never leaves the station. Next, if/when you are wardecked, simply have everyone other than ceo leave the corp and rejoin a temp corp as needed. Although its against CCP rules to disband a corp to avoid a wardeck, any/all individual members may leave as they wish. Rinse and repeat each time they wardeck and avoid all confrontation. Once the dust settles, rejoin your original corp.
How to avoid being probed down:
To make your ship unprobable, you need to have your ship's signature radius / sensor strength < 1.08. This is realistically only possible on t3 and a select few other ships. However, to make your ship "virtually" unprobable you need only 1.5. At 1.5 you cannot be scanned down unless they have the expensive implants, which few pvpers will risk especially outside of lowsec) and 1.5 is much more obtainable.
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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.08 20:37:00 -
[2]
Ran out of space. If anyone has questions, ask. Virtually all unwanted pvp can be avoided or significantly reduced. Don't let the unloved 30 year old virgin sociopaths keep you from playing the game how you want to!
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2010.10.09 00:00:00 -
[3]
Nice.
Great Info.
Just a few things to add.
A Covert Ops Frigate is excellent for making Safe Spots in unsafe areas.
Insta-Undock Safe Spots:
I like to set up my Insta-Undock spots between 600km to 1000km from station. Seems that the angle of exit vectors are not exactly the same each time you undock. The further away the spot is equals to less align time for warp. Also to make sure your ship is off grid, have the station sentry guns showing on overview and when they disappear from the overview, you'll be off grid.
Low Security Stations:
Another way to create Insta-Undock spot is to have a ship fitted with Covert Ops cloak and warp to 100km of station while cloaked. Click the 'Look' option on the station and locate which side the exit point is for the station. While keeping range from the station, maneuver your ship to that side and use the Tactical view to get aligned with the exit at the same elevation and then proceed straight out till you have reached the desired km range to make the Insta-Undock spot.
Align time:
The MWD and cloak trick is great for armor tank ships. For shield tank ships that can't fit up a MWD due to powergrid or cpu issues and have the Covert Ops cloak fitted, fitting a Nanostructure module will increase the speed as well as agility. Gate cloak will last for about 30 seconds. Click on the destination and select 'warp to 0' and activate the Cov Ops cloak asap. The ship will be aligned by the time the gate cloak wears off and within 1 second the Covert Ops cloak is active and the ship will be going into warp. When the ship comes out of warp and the green cycle on the cloak module stops, you'll be able to jump at the next gate or dock at station.
Of course training up Navigation skills and Spaceship Command skills will also help make the ship faster with much more agility.
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Elyham
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.10.09 01:42:00 -
[4]
farmville that way -->
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Monte Shill
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Posted - 2010.10.09 02:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Elyham
farmville that way -->
<-- WoW is this way, where everything is given to you. Watch out for the recycled rhetoric (and check your shoes!) spouted by so called "hardcore" players, as they are more carebear and risk adverse then most, it takes what? a few cheaply fitted destroyers (totaling maybe 6 million) per gank during Hulkeggeddon to collect the "I-Win!" t-shirts with a Hulk on the front and "Thats no Moon!" on the back . "Hardcore" is just another word for "Can't try harder to fail at EVE, coaxing and encouraging players out of highsec is for *****s" while flying in highsec surrounded by CONCORD and flipping cans hopping they fire back so they can destroy ships that are not fitted for PVP in T2/T3 they are to afraid to take into lowsec.
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VC General
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Posted - 2010.10.09 02:49:00 -
[6]
Quote:
First, fit a cloak (any type) and a mwd. When you warp into a hostile camp, click align, hit your mwd, then hit cloak. This will start your ship aligning while boosting your speed temporarily due to the mwd. After a few seconds pass and your ship has aligned and just before the MWD cycle has ended, decloak and warp. Because you are aligned and over 100% of your max speed (due to the mwd pulse just expiring), you will instantly pop into warp. This method is very difficult for a camp to stop because they have to physically bump into you and decloak you before your mwd cycle/align time ends. With a bit of practice, you can run most camps in a cruiser/bc or below hull.
For gatecamps, that actually is a pretty good method. Whle undocking from stations, it ranges from iffy to just being fail. The ship won't be able to cloak if there's other ships crowding the dock, not to mention it needs to be 2km from the station itself before it can cloak. Also "any type" won't do. You need at least a T2 or faction cloak because the max speed penalty for the T1 cloak is much worse than the 500-600% boost from a MWD. You need a cloak that will let you MWD to a speed that is at least 75% of your uncloaked base speed.
You're much better off using the 30 secs of invulnerability after undocking to instawarp to a safespot that you are already aligned to when you exit the station.
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ISK Launderer
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Posted - 2010.10.09 03:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Monte Shill
Originally by: Elyham
farmville that way -->
<-- WoW is this way, where everything is given to you. Watch out for the recycled rhetoric (and check your shoes!) spouted by so called "hardcore" players, as they are more carebear and risk adverse then most, it takes what? a few cheaply fitted destroyers (totaling maybe 6 million) per gank during Hulkeggeddon to collect the "I-Win!" t-shirts with a Hulk on the front and "Thats no Moon!" on the back . "Hardcore" is just another word for "Can't try harder to fail at EVE, coaxing and encouraging players out of highsec is for *****s" while flying in highsec surrounded by CONCORD and flipping cans hopping they fire back so they can destroy ships that are not fitted for PVP in T2/T3 they are to afraid to take into lowsec.
PVP = Player vs Plagioclase?
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Missy Sasha
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Posted - 2010.10.09 04:08:00 -
[8]
if eve was singleplayer, i'd play that. but its not.
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Elyham
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.10.09 05:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Monte Shill
Originally by: Elyham
farmville that way -->
<-- WoW is this way, where everything is given to you. Watch out for the recycled rhetoric (and check your shoes!) spouted by so called "hardcore" players, as they are more carebear and risk adverse then most, it takes what? a few cheaply fitted destroyers (totaling maybe 6 million) per gank during Hulkeggeddon to collect the "I-Win!" t-shirts with a Hulk on the front and "Thats no Moon!" on the back . "Hardcore" is just another word for "Can't try harder to fail at EVE, coaxing and encouraging players out of highsec is for *****s" while flying in highsec surrounded by CONCORD and flipping cans hopping they fire back so they can destroy ships that are not fitted for PVP in T2/T3 they are to afraid to take into lowsec.
Thanks for clearing that up. U mad bro?
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Maggee Q
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Posted - 2010.10.09 06:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Monte Shill
Originally by: Elyham
farmville that way -->
<-- WoW is this way, where everything is given to you. Watch out for the recycled rhetoric (and check your shoes!) spouted by so called "hardcore" players, as they are more carebear and risk adverse then most, it takes what? a few cheaply fitted destroyers (totaling maybe 6 million) per gank during Hulkeggeddon to collect the "I-Win!" t-shirts with a Hulk on the front and "Thats no Moon!" on the back . "Hardcore" is just another word for "Can't try harder to fail at EVE, coaxing and encouraging players out of highsec is for *****s" while flying in highsec surrounded by CONCORD and flipping cans hopping they fire back so they can destroy ships that are not fitted for PVP in T2/T3 they are to afraid to take into lowsec.
This. Well said my friend. If by Farmville you mean avoiding risk-taking ventures, then yes all carebear-hunters may as well go farm their little cornfield too. Grow some balls and try to pick on people with the same fighting skillsets you have.
Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach
Don't let the unloved 30 year old virgin sociopaths keep you from playing the game how you want to!
Sometimes I really do wonder how many of these guys were bullied IRL or are sociopaths who are living out their fantasies online.
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Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.09 06:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Elyham
<angry gankbear tears>
Here is an example of the gankbear's frowning. His killboard has nothing but jita and motsu ganks, yet he wails about how hardcore eve is and how everyone should be at risk. But where's the risk in instapopping shuttles and ganking mission drakes? If you actually wanted risk, you'd be fighting targets who want to shoot back. But you aren't. You're just a sociopath who wants to feel powerful as an internet spaceship pirate. At least the bears are honest about farming; you are just pathetic.
And that's why bears should know -- the sociopaths are wrong. Eve is not about risk, they just want you to believe they have a right to grief you. They don't, and not only that virtually all the mechanics of eve make it easier to avoid pvp than gank. You simply need to know the mechanics as well as the gankbears.
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VC General
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Posted - 2010.10.09 06:36:00 -
[12]
What's funny is that CCP actually nerfed NOS because they didn't want hulks killing the poor pirates. The first anti-carebear PvP nerf in the history of MMO's. 
On a side note, back in the days of UO, we didn't honor gankers by calling them PvPers. The people who only came out of hiding to attack low-risk high-reward targets, who used neutral alts to find targets for them, who fled, hid, or logged off to avoid any kind of fight where they had a chance of losing were called player killers. The title of PvPer was reserved for those who wanted a fight, not the guy who just wanted an uncontested kill in the name of easy loot and griefing. At best, I'd call what they do "player vs game mechanics".
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.10.09 12:38:00 -
[13]
Im wondering how you would go about making ISK if pvp is off the agenda, market is PVP also.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.10.09 13:08:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 09/10/2010 13:10:59
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 09/10/2010 13:09:38
Originally by: VC General
What's funny is that CCP actually nerfed NOS because they didn't want hulks killing the poor pirates. The first anti-carebear PvP nerf in the history of MMO's.
On a side note, back in the days of UO, we didn't honor gankers by calling them PvPers. The people who only came out of hiding to attack low-risk high-reward targets, who used neutral alts to find targets for them, who fled, hid, or logged off to avoid any kind of fight where they had a chance of losing were called player killers. The title of PvPer was reserved for those who wanted a fight, not the guy who just wanted an uncontested kill in the name of easy loot and griefing. At best, I'd call what they do "player vs game mechanics".
When I played "online" at the beginning, it was text games and 75-300 baud modems. Even then, the opportunistic killers were already there and they were flagged (by the game) as "PKiller" not as PvPer.
We'd have an actual sort of tournament that was "PvP" and who won (last "man / dwarf / wolf / dragon / *whale* (!)..." standing) would earn a title, items AND Roleplay points (!).
Edit: Should I feel ashamed if I say I miss those times?
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Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.10.09 14:47:00 -
[15]
If the aim is to avoid PvP, I'd also add this one: Originally by: Kwisatz Hadereach
Smack in local accordingly. Narrow the local chat (not character list) down to its absolute minimum width and ignore the garbled mush of characters appearing there
Local is where tears are being cultivated and extracted y ignore it, and their frustration will be epic.
yyy
tIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡`
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.v
y Karath Piki |
heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2010.10.09 17:23:00 -
[16]
I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
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Hanz Landou
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Posted - 2010.10.09 19:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: heheheh
I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
U mad?
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Eris Davion
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: heheheh
I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
The rest of the game. Plus, there's something satisfying about denying some carebear-ganker his kill.
But really, what do you expect? When some guy in a PVP-fit ship goes after a mission-runner, hauler or miner, unless it's a bait-scenario the target generally has only two options: run or get ganked.
Even if he's just running to go get his own PvP ship.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:23:00 -
[19]
Quote:
But really, what do you expect? When some guy in a PVP-fit ship goes after a mission-runner, hauler or miner, unless it's a bait-scenario the target generally has only two options: run or get ganked.
The OP gives better advice than this.
The best way to avoid being ganked is not to put yourself in the position to be so. By pretending to escape, all that's possible to achieve is to delay the inevitable.
By learning and playing smarter, instead, it's possible to have the upper hand and even to control the losses.
Don't be in the position to be the prey, because then the hyenas will smell you.
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Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Eris Davion
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
But really, what do you expect? When some guy in a PVP-fit ship goes after a mission-runner, hauler or miner, unless it's a bait-scenario the target generally has only two options: run or get ganked.
The OP gives better advice than this.
Likely because I was responding to a tangent, not attempting to offer advice.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
The best way to avoid being ganked is not to put yourself in the position to be so. By pretending to escape, all that's possible to achieve is to delay the inevitable.
By learning and playing smarter, instead, it's possible to have the upper hand and even to control the losses.
Don't be in the position to be the prey, because then the hyenas will smell you.
This is all pretty vague, and can be interpreted many ways. For example: knowing when (and how) to GTFO could arguably fall under the categories of 'playing smarter' and 'control the losses.'
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I likegirls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.10.10 01:25:00 -
[21]
LMAO. This is too good.
How about any noob who actually is learning something here that they just stay in an NPC corp, stay in high sec, don't shoot anyone/steal from anyone and don't fly an uber-expensive ship.
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Boma Airaken
White Song
Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2010.10.10 04:24:00 -
[22]
How to avoid PvP threads < How to get awesome at PvP threads.You guys are missing out on alot of fun.
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Jita Squatter
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Posted - 2010.10.10 05:35:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Jita Squatter on 10/10/2010 05:38:50
Originally by: Elyham
farmville that way -->
Originally by: heheheh
I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
Originally by: Boma Airaken
How to avoid PvP threads < How to get awesome at PvP threads.You guys are missing out on alot of fun.
I don't get why you guys are complaining. Information like this gets more bears into lowsec. Isn't that what you want?
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Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.10 07:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jita Squatter
Edited by: Jita Squatter on 10/10/2010 05:38:50
Originally by: Elyham
farmville that way -->
Originally by: heheheh
I dont quite understand why people that want to avoid PVP play a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp.
Originally by: Boma Airaken
How to avoid PvP threads < How to get awesome at PvP threads.You guys are missing out on alot of fun.
I don't get why you guys are complaining. Information like this gets more bears into lowsec. Isn't that what you want?
in what universe?
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Jita Squatter
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Posted - 2010.10.10 08:47:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jita Squatter on 10/10/2010 08:50:54
Originally by: Lady Aja
in what universe?
This one?
Its pretty simple in my opinion. If a carebear enters lowsec for the first time, and gets killed by the first gate camp they see, they are more likely to stay in hisec in the future. With tricks like MWD/cloak, they survive long enough to get an idea about the isk they can make in lowsec. Instead of rage-quitting, they stay. Carebears in lowsec means more targets for pirates.
Well, as a carebear that has operated out of lowsec/nullsec most of my life (about 3 years), I live there for the some of the same reasons you do. Because i find hisec terribly boring. Because I live for the danger. Nothing gets the blood pumping like getting through a bubble camp in a blockade runner with 17 percent hull.
As for why people would avoid pvp in a game where it is impossible to avoid pvp, well, you may say i'm doing it wrong. I say its my sandbox too, and i can do whatever i damn well please.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.10.10 10:55:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Nothing gets the blood pumping like getting through a bubble camp in a blockade runner with 17 percent hull
There's something even more blood pumping imho: getting thru a camp in a T2 fit battleship with 17% hull, all modules overheated to full damage after you just killed the whole lot.
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Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2010.10.10 11:24:00 -
[27]
Awww come on people, how about giving some good replies with real informative tips on how to survive in low security systems?
This could be a very good guide which would actually get more players going into low security systems.
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Johan Sabbat
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.10 13:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
Awww come on people, how about giving some good replies with real informative tips on how to survive in low security systems?
This could be a very good guide which would actually get more players going into low security systems.
Moar people in low-sec?
What a crazy notion...
Talking of crazy notions, scout alt/mates
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Isaac Apylon
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.10.10 14:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson
real informative tips on how to survive in low security systems
Tip #1: Bring out some insured ships and kill the people who are bothering you.
Of course, this might not work as well for bears if they're flying solo, although to be honest if you're playing this entire game solo, you're either brain-dead or going to be soon.
I'm as much a bear as most (I <3 my Vargur), but if you're going to go into lowsec, the best thing you can do is at least be prepared or willing to pvp. Even with all sorts of neat tricks, odds are you will be caught someday, and it's best to be prepared for that fact now rather than later. |
Kwisatz Hadereach
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Posted - 2010.10.10 15:02:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Isaac Apylon
Tip #1: Bring out some insured ships and kill the people who are bothering you.
Actually that's the worst advice you can give for three reasons.
1. True bears don't know what they are doing. They won't have the right fits, they won't have the right tactics. They will be at a major disadvantage.
2. Gankbears don't play equal fights. If you have a chance of winning, they will dock. You can safely assume as a bear if they are willing to shoot at all, they know for a fact they will win.
3. Fighting gives the bored gankbears what they want. Face it, eve is a boring game as a gankbear. You can sit for hours waiting for someone to fall into your camp or to "duel" your rupture at jita. Giving gankers a "fight" is the highlight of their day -- even in the unlikely event they lose its better for them than sitting around. See, you don't need them to enjoy the game, but they need you to let them gank you to enjoy the game. When you don't do it, they get bored, angry, and finally make rage threads. That boredom is a great weapon for you as a bear -- let them stew and get bored and ragequit. Turn their own pathological rage inward.
Another few tips:
Gate Aggression:
In a nutshell, if you agress in any way, including defensive, you can't jump through a gate for 30 seconds. Also, if an opponent tries to warp in your bubble this counts as aggression.
You can use this in several ways. Suppose you land on a low sec gate with a hostile on it. You know that if you jump through, he will follow and probably point you and gank you. Instead of jumping blindly through, just start to align out (while still being within 2500 of the gate). If the ganker points you, jump through the gate and he cannot follow you for a 30 seconds. If he does not point/aggress you, simply warp away.
Another way to run a large gate camp with a fast frigate/cynabal is when you jump through and are surrounded by hostiles, simply wait 30 seconds (to avoid the session timer) and click reapproach and hit your MWD. In the ~5 seconds it takes you to get back to the gate, many will aggro on you. Jump through, and they can't follow. Some others may follow you through and try to tag you on the other side. Bounce back and forth between the gates until they get strung out (the ones on the wrong side will be clicking jump through furiously so they get on the killmail zomg cannot miss my killmails!!) so after a few times bouncing back and forth you should have an opening to jump to saftey. This can also be used to avoid bubbles -- be sure to "warp" to trigger aggro on them each time you jump through, so this will leave 1+ bubbler on each side each trip until they run out of dictors/hictors.
Dealing with afk Cloakers:
Hotdroppers often leave a cloaker afk in system to harass you. Then he will randomly come back, probe someone down, and gank them. This method is effectively without risk and a good way to gank opposing alliance's bears.
The best counter as a bear is to avoid attempting to fight the cloaky ***s, but also not to let them disrupt your bearing. Trade in your drakes/ravens/carriers/etc for two ships -- Tengu and Manticore. A tengu with 2x conjunctive ECCM, 1x warded sensor cluster, and a dissolution subsystem should hit the 1.08 unprobable mark and still have plenty of spots for tank. A manticore can fit 1x eccm to become unprobable and still have room for an AB and the covops cloak (which makes a great scout). This means 1x tengu + a few Sbs can make a reasonably priced, unprobable, and high dps bearfleet with a built in scout. You can run most pve content this way -- just be sure to have the tengu aligned while ratting, and have the mantys cloak up when needed. Use this, combined with good use of dscan, seeing probes, and scouting gates/stations to simply bypass their gank attempts. Also note that its possible to kill belt rats using only SBs with ABs and no tank who rely on range/transversal.
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