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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.04 12:07:00 -
[1]
I figured that since we have a proposal against this - [proposal] No trading Plex's for Neural Remapping - it is only fair to have a counter proposal. IMHO, I think this thing has gotten blown all out of proportion and that the matter is not that big of a deal but since those who oppose it, for whatever reason, have a place to show their support against it, those who favor the idea should have their say too. That said, I don't expect that my proposal will get the response that T'Amber's has gotten simply because my name is not as recognizable as hers.
Proposal:
- Allow the trading of PLEX for extra Neural Remaps
Pros:
- This feature would allow players to correct mistakes made during the planning of a character.
- This feature would allow players to change the direction of a character's training if he or she has decided to take a different approach to playing EVE.
- Pertaining to the first two items listed above, this feature would serve to minimalize the lost time and effort of mistakes in planning and of changing the style of play.
- Everyone, regardless of their real-life monetary circumstances, has access to the feature since PLEX can easily be purchased in-game with ISK.
- EVE players who have limited time to actually play can optimize their training thus allowing them to reach certain goals a little faster and consequently allow them to enjoy a richer EVE experience in their limited time.
- This feature would give the already existing PLEX feature a larger role and a broader user demand which in turn would increase sales of GTCs thus making more money available to CCP for the continued development of EVE.
- Since characters can already be bought and sold for ISK legally and GTCs can be changed into PLEX and sold for ISK legally, both of which allow players and their characters to bypass standard game mechanics to achieve monetary and training advances quickly, this feature would allow the same but to a lesser degree.
Cons:
- A few players will make more ISK by spending real money to purchase GTCs for resale as PLEX, just as they do currently.
- A few players will actually buy GTCs with real money, convert the GTCs to PLEX and use the PLEX to buy a Neural Remap while most players will not due to monetary restraints or due to principle (not wanting to make CCP rich).
- Since Neural Remapping is an advantage to a player, those who chose to use it will gain a slight advantage over those who chose not to use it even though the PLEX is readily available to one and all with no real money outlay.
- CCP will be able to sell more PLEX. (Yes this is listed as both a Pro and a Con since some see this as a bad thing while others view it as a benefit.)
Link: My link is up top leading to the 'NO' proposal.
Other: If you support this thread, don't forget to put a check in the 'Check here if you want to give your support to the idea/discussion going on' checkbox!
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Rhok Relztem
CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.04 12:56:00 -
[2]
Hmmm. Had the box checked when I posted but it didn't register, soooo....
Supported.
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Goremageddon Box
Minmatar Guerrilla Flotilla
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Posted - 2010.10.04 13:12:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Rhok Relztem Hmmm. Had the box checked when I posted but it didn't register, soooo....
Supported.
wish i could give you a thumbs down.
not supported. _______________________ Hottest Character Ever. |
Helen Highwater
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.10.04 13:25:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Rhok Relztem That said, I don't expect that my proposal will get the response that T'Amber's has gotten simply because my proposal is a bad one.
Fixed that for you.
Monetising ingame rewards is a bad idea. Plex for subscription time is not the same thing as Plex for <insert game mechanic here>. If the problem is that neural remaps are too far apart then fix that problem, don't add a micro-transaction to work around a bad design. --------------------------------------------------------------
Let's not and say we did. |
M'aak'han
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Posted - 2010.10.04 13:40:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Rhok Relztem That said, I don't expect that my proposal will get the response that T'Amber's has gotten simply because my name is not as recognizable as hers.
I do hope the majority of players support proposals for their content, and not depending on who posted them.
Though I don't support this proposal, I can only urge the people who want this feature added to reply here, as this would shed some light on where the majority is.
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Bo Tosh
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Posted - 2010.10.04 14:09:00 -
[6]
Not supported, what's after cash for remaps? Cash for SP.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar CareBears on Fire The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.10.04 14:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bo Tosh Not supported, what's after cash for remaps? Cash for SP.
"Oh no I really wish I hadn't made the mistake of jumping my PVE fit Navy Raven into lowsec. Here's three plexes CCP, make that not happen plox."
I hate micro transaction games. I pay to play, I don't pay so that I can be outdone by other people who can afford to pay more. --Vel
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Cerabix
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Posted - 2010.10.05 19:49:00 -
[8]
I'm in support of this. After fiddling around with EveMon and working the numbers I don't believe this could get outrageous. It offers stopping points to an other wise 1 year long cycle. For instance, a miner who has Mem/Int training will want to roll Mem/Int until he has maxed out his character development in that area. However, pretend this miner have one year decides to max planetary interaction before going over to the science skills. He would remap his skills for 2 months before working towards sciences for another 10 months not fully buffed. To most that wouldn't seem logical and so the miner might just train science and skip what he really wanted to do.
Same can be said for someone training in ships and wanting to pick up tech 2 heavy drones or an intercepter training for pvp tackle training for speed first.
I don't think this is as major as a problem as everyone is talking about. At most I can see someone trying to remap once every 2 or 3 months. Anymore then that and people will just be sinking money ineffectively. For those of you who don't want to save up for multiple plexes every month its still cost effective to try and plan while forgoing that one skill V that takes forever to train although you would love it.
I'm fully in support of this and I highly doubt that this will be the doomsday prediction everyone on the forums is crying about.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar CareBears on Fire The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.10.05 20:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cerabix I'm in support of this. After fiddling around with EveMon and working the numbers I don't believe this could get outrageous. It offers stopping points to an other wise 1 year long cycle. For instance, a miner who has Mem/Int training will want to roll Mem/Int until he has maxed out his character development in that area. However, pretend this miner have one year decides to max planetary interaction before going over to the science skills. He would remap his skills for 2 months before working towards sciences for another 10 months not fully buffed. To most that wouldn't seem logical and so the miner might just train science and skip what he really wanted to do.
Same can be said for someone training in ships and wanting to pick up tech 2 heavy drones or an intercepter training for pvp tackle training for speed first.
I don't think this is as major as a problem as everyone is talking about. At most I can see someone trying to remap once every 2 or 3 months. Anymore then that and people will just be sinking money ineffectively. For those of you who don't want to save up for multiple plexes every month its still cost effective to try and plan while forgoing that one skill V that takes forever to train although you would love it.
I'm fully in support of this and I highly doubt that this will be the doomsday prediction everyone on the forums is crying about.
Had you actually read the doomsday predictions you would now be realizing that you and the point are not even in the same postal code.
Allow me to elaborate (again):
The point is, you are now allowing PLEX to be used to evade an inconvenient game mechanic, so that those who are willing to acquire them (be it via ISK or by RL cash) can skirt around one of "THE RULES"(tm) of the game - that being, thou shalt not remap thy attributes more than once a year.
The concern isn't with being allowed to remap more than once a year (I think once every six months would be grand) - it is to what other uses will CCP decide to extend this "Pay to avoid the consequences" business model?
"Oh no my alliance lost our supercap fleet because we all self destructed!" "480 PLEX please and this problem too can be wiped away as if it never happened!"
Yes, my example is extreme, but hopefully you actually understand why we're concerned now. --Vel
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Cerabix
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Posted - 2010.10.05 20:27:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Cerabix on 05/10/2010 20:32:43
Originally by: De'Veldrin
Had you actually read the doomsday predictions you would now be realizing that you and the point are not even in the same postal code.
Allow me to elaborate (again):
The point is, you are now allowing PLEX to be used to evade an inconvenient game mechanic, so that those who are willing to acquire them (be it via ISK or by RL cash) can skirt around one of "THE RULES"(tm) of the game - that being, thou shalt not remap thy attributes more than once a year.
The concern isn't with being allowed to remap more than once a year (I think once every six months would be grand) - it is to what other uses will CCP decide to extend this "Pay to avoid the consequences" business model?
"Oh no my alliance lost our supercap fleet because we all self destructed!" "480 PLEX please and this problem too can be wiped away as if it never happened!"
Yes, my example is extreme, but hopefully you actually understand why we're concerned now.
Actually I still don't. You said that was the rules of the game but I'm pretty sure those rules have been changed before. When I first started playing, which was a long time ago and that account is lost to the history of the internet, I don't ever recall neuro remapping. I picked my character and that was it. Some skills were handed to me and my attributes were pre-set.
They changed that system and I would have to say that worked for the best. We can now neuro remap once a year and that system is grand.
Its still to clingy though for the first 50 million skillpoints. Its hard to do anything super well until you maxed it out but if you're maxing even one thing out it takes a very long time, even with 33 in primary skill.
As far as I understand Plex's are EVE's way of character control. They allow you to do specific things to your character like play for free and in this case remap. Money only affects your character though. It can't affect your ship or how well you fly it.
In the case of plex for remapping it will indirectly affect how well you fly it but minimally as you're character still has to train through the skills that take a lot of time even maxed.
Furthermore you can already spend a whole lot of money on plexes, buy supercap ships on market or pay an alliance to trade you some and "undo" your mistakes. The only way to fix that though is to take away the plex system which means it will go back to third parties.
If you spend more money on eve you will get ahead faster. Same as any other game even though you have to do it through third parties.
This is going to be a great change for people wanting to spend time specializing in minor job roles that don't have the ability to sink a full year into like trading or archeology. It really isn't doomsday at all.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.05 23:03:00 -
[11]
Not supported.
Plex is the mechanism to convert RL $ to isk.
All other in-game activities are bought with isk. Neural remapping should be controlled by isk as well. A better solution is to have CCP implement neural remapping as part of the game.
Suggestions:
1. Loot drop from pirate NPCs that allows for neural remap. 2. Issue BPOs that build a neural remapping device. 3. Nueral remap devices as part of LP store.
If you then want to use PLEX to convert your RL $$ into isk to purchase a neural remap device, then do so at your convenience.
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Kami3k
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Posted - 2010.10.05 23:17:00 -
[12]
Originally by: X Gallentius Not supported.
Plex is the mechanism to convert RL $ to isk.
All other in-game activities are bought with isk. Neural remapping should be controlled by isk as well. A better solution is to have CCP implement neural remapping as part of the game.
Suggestions:
1. Loot drop from pirate NPCs that allows for neural remap. 2. Issue BPOs that build a neural remapping device. 3. Nueral remap devices as part of LP store.
If you then want to use PLEX to convert your RL $$ into isk to purchase a neural remap device, then do so at your convenience.
What?! That's even worst then the original idea! No period imo. Neural remap once a year after you use up your free one is how it should be.
This is not WoW or a Korean MMO. |
Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.06 04:06:00 -
[13]
Ya know, I've read through nearly the whole thread of T'Amber's proposal and of course, these comments, and I still cannot fathom the resistance nearing outright fear of something as minor as this. The overwhelming argument - what will the evil CCP do next to get our money through the use of the almighty PLEX - borders on hysteria. Some of the comments, especially in this thread, are downright disgraceful for a supposed mature community. If you don't support it, say so and state your reason(s), but being sarcastic and less than civil is not warranted and borders on childish, close-minded, self-indulging behavior. I and quite a few others commented in the 'No...' proposal about our dissension to that view but our comments were civil. I honestly did not expect an overwhelming show of support here because everyone seems to have jumped on the fear bandwagon that this is just the precursor to a cash shop without truly evaluating the proposed feature from both sides of the fence, but I DID expect the responses - pro or con - to be respectful.
On one other point - that of this feature side-stepping a game mechanic - is not the buying of ready-made characters side-stepping established game mechanics? In that case, the side-stepping is far and away the worse of the two. By buying a character already trained, you bypass all of the time training, the acquiring of skill books either through the market or by salvaging, as well as the experience gained from doing so while playing the game, plus you acquire whatever is agreed upon in that character's hangars. Has the purchasing of characters ruined the game? Has it had a major impact on gameplay for everyone else? No. Of course not because relatively few when considering the whole of the player base actually makes use of that feature. My guess is that the proposed use of PLEX for Neural Remapping will have similar usage for the simple reason that it will not be cost effective. I would venture a guess that the majority who would use it by all likelihood would do so maybe two to four times a year AT MOST, and those would be the few. Game-breaker? I think not. C'mon folks. Take a deep breath, put away the CASH SHOP DEMON fear for a moment, and be rational. This feature would NOT be the end of EVE as we know it, but to assuage a few of the arguments, perhaps a cap on usage would be in order, say a limit of three or four uses a year per character, or whatever.
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T'Amber
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.10.06 05:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rhok Relztem Some of the comments, especially in this thread, are downright disgraceful for a supposed mature community. If you don't support it, say so and state your reason(s), but being sarcastic and less than civil is not warranted and borders on childish, close-minded, self-indulging behavior. I and quite a few others commented in the 'No...' proposal about our dissension to that view but our comments were civil.
To expect all replies to be civil on the internet is like expecting a reach around while being bum****d in texas.
Originally by: Rhok Relztem On one other point - that of this feature side-stepping a game mechanic - is not the buying of ready-made characters side-stepping established game mechanics? In that case, the side-stepping is far and away the worse of the two. By buying a character already trained, you bypass all of the time training, the acquiring of skill books either through the market or by salvaging, as well as the experience gained from doing so while playing the game, plus you acquire whatever is agreed upon in that character's hangars. Has the purchasing of characters ruined the game? Has it had a major impact on gameplay for everyone else? No. Of course not because relatively few when considering the whole of the player base actually makes use of that feature.
There is no total SP increase in game when a character is traded and only the owner has changed, where as with this new feature there would be an overall increase in SP (although I doubt that it will be much). The only issue I think there is with Character trading is that post-plex there isn't an equal oppurtunity for people to do so, where as before hand it was fair.
While I think this topic is relevant to the conversation, for me this is a minor issue and its more the Plex mechanic that causes problems. If a character is going to be ingame, I don't personally care who owns it - the actual character itself had the same chances to develop as mine did - and unless its deleted or unsubbed its going to be ingame anyway.
Originally by: Rhok Relztem My guess is that the proposed use of PLEX for Neural Remapping will have similar usage for the simple reason that it will not be cost effective. I would venture a guess that the majority who would use it by all likelihood would do so maybe two to four times a year AT MOST, and those would be the few. Game-breaker? I think not. C'mon folks. Take a deep breath, put away the CASH SHOP DEMON fear for a moment, and be rational. This feature would NOT be the end of EVE as we know it, but to assuage a few of the arguments, perhaps a cap on usage would be in order, say a limit of three or four uses a year per character, or whatever.
Why does this feature use Plex and not an existing reward or trade system from ingame? I don't see why it couldn't be tied to a LP reward or somesuch (which would also remove the benefit people have with buying isk with plex).
This along with the fact that CCP specifically stated that there would be no microtransactions gives rise to peoples fear, although I agree that the actual use of this feature could be low and some people are over reacting - but a line must be drawn somewhere.
Saying all that, I don't think there should be an increase in ReMapping at all we already have enough of them, and this is one of my main reasons I am against this feature.
- Think about your training plan and what you want to do in game
- Plan Ahead
- Don't touch your remaps when you are drunk, tripping or wasted
- Suffer the consequences for failing to do any of the above, this is Eve grow some balls and suck it up
On another note, great layout of your proposal and I wish everyone else posted their proposals like this. -T'amber
[VANIR / AESIR WARS] C o m i n g S o o n Ö
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
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Posted - 2010.10.06 08:03:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 06/10/2010 08:04:55 Take a good long look at how many people support this so called stupid idea and how many are opposed to this idea.
Yeah... waste of time to even bother asking.
f### no.
De and company are only scratching the surface here.
Keep on coming up with excuses to support this ludicrous idea.... not going to win any points with that mob standing over there. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.06 16:28:00 -
[16]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 06/10/2010 16:29:51
Originally by: Kami3k What?! That's even worst then the original idea! No period imo. Neural remap once a year after you use up your free one is how it should be.
This is not WoW or a Korean MMO.
Why once a year? Why not make it a one time event, once every two years, once every five years? This is not WoW or Korean! Why not once a day?
And why is neural remapping once a year free?
IF they're gonna do it, then do it through game mechanics, not PLEX. And then make sure there's a cost associated neural remaps appropriate to the advantage of doing it.
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Iceworld
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Posted - 2010.10.06 17:33:00 -
[17]
It should be done through game mechanics.... not through what size wallet you have outside the game
Its bad enough as it is
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.06 18:52:00 -
[18]
It appears as though the two proposals (Against and For) are a moot point for the moment and we will just have to wait to see how it actually does affect the game. Eurogamer's Robert Purchese posted an interview with CCP's EVE creative director, Torfi Frans Olafsson. On page 3 of the interview is the following question & answer:
Quote: Eurogamer: Business models in MMOs are changing. Are there any plans to use micro-transactions in EVE to allow people to re-map their skills?
Torfi Frans Olafsson: Yeah, we are looking at introducing virtual goods within the game, but we feel those things should be vanity items rather than those that give you a clear benefit over other players in-game.
That said, we are introducing a feature this expansion [Incursion], that does allow you to re-map your attributes using Pilot Licence Extensions, which are bought both in-game and on our website. PLEX represents 30-days subscription within the game.
We will evolve just like everyone else. We will certainly not become a dinosaur. That has not been our style.
Even though I am for this feature, as I stated in a comment in the 'No...' proposal, I am NOT in favor of a cash shop in EVE. This statement by Olafsson leaves a sour taste in my mouth as it appears as though there is poison mixed in with the honey.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente Demolition Men
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Posted - 2010.10.06 19:35:00 -
[19]
NOT Supported.
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Greken
Minmatar The Lost Regime
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Posted - 2010.10.07 00:34:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Greken on 07/10/2010 00:38:08
All this seems to do is allow the reallocation of Attribute Points via Neural Remap more often than Once Per Year... It requiring 1 PLEX to do it is nothing more than saying it costs ~360million ISK (the current price of buying a PLEX) OR $15 IRL money...
This really does nothing more than give the player the option to pay 360mil ISK to buy a Neural Remap... THAT IS ALL IT DOES.
It is completely seperate from the already existing issue that you can essentially PURCHASE that 360mil ISK with RL money by buying a PLEX, of which the feature ALREADY EXISTS IN THE GAME... IF that is the issue people are having, it is a completely different topic (the topic of "should you be able to trade PLEX for in-game ISK?").
So as I said before, the only thing this changes is the ability to remap more than once per year.
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Crazy Katie
Caldari Saiyans United death from above..
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Posted - 2010.10.07 00:38:00 -
[21]
I support it
those qq'ing about people buying a plex and being able to remap.
look at jita
see all those plex for sale for isk?
ya. buy one of those.
Yes I know the plex got into the game via RL money, but so has everything else. nothing in the game would exist without there being a cash transaction at some time. (hello subscriptions)
For those that say oh i don't have enough isk to buy one AND i'm too pool irl to buy a plex. well who gives a **** about you? you obviously don't play enough for this to have any impact on you whatsoever.
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Nicien
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Posted - 2010.10.07 00:39:00 -
[22]
I fully Support plex 4 remap .... please do it asap so i dont waste any more of my time with this noob remap i did.
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Duke Hamilton1
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Posted - 2010.10.07 01:06:00 -
[23]
I totally support it and think it's a great idea. I've only been playing eve for 6 months and did not fully understand the training skills mechanics at the beginning and made a mistake with my first neural remap and had to change to Intel and memory to maximize training the learning skills. So now I'm having to concentrate for a whole year on memory and intel support skills before I can swap over to perception and willpower for drones gunnery and spaceship command, I even have cybernetics at 5 and bought +5's to quicken the process up. To be honest this new option will appeal to the newer players more than established players and eve needs to engage and retain the newer player base because without them this game will slowly die. I personally think everyone should have the option to neural remap as he or she so sees fit and what is the difference between paying 130 mill isk for implants or paying 350 mill per neural remap in game. You still have to fund it through game currency and people with RL commitments who are time poor still buy GTC'S wether it be for new mods, ships or implants aren't these micro-transactions as well. Anyway the more options the better and everyone will have the FREE CHOICE without there being a huge dramatic shift in SP distribution.
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Apollo Gabriel
Domini Lex Talionis Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2010.10.07 04:54:00 -
[24]
I support for a simple reason, it is a game. Let's say you've got it all figured out, you remap, then two weeks later your corp/alliance breaks up, and you had been working on specific roles for that group. Now your new group wants you for a new purpose ...
There are many reasons to allow remaps, people can currently spend a lot of RL cash, buy a fancy char with all the skills they want, but none of the customization.
Instead of opposing it because you hate RMT, which I do as well, let's discuss WHY we hate RMT.
Perhaps it should be a direct pay CCP 330 m isk to do it, and don't use plex, just create a sink for money to leave the game. Remapping is good, really you can't really say it isn't a good thing. RMT sucks, most of us agree. =============================== || Don't let the Trolls keep you from your goals. || =============================== |
T'Amber
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.10.07 05:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Rhok Relztem It appears as though the two proposals (Against and For) are a moot point for the moment and we will just have to wait to see how it actually does affect the game. Eurogamer's Robert Purchese posted an interview with CCP's EVE creative director, Torfi Frans Olafsson. On page 3 of the interview is the following question & answer:
Quote: Eurogamer: Business models in MMOs are changing. Are there any plans to use micro-transactions in EVE to allow people to re-map their skills?
Torfi Frans Olafsson: Yeah, we are looking at introducing virtual goods within the game, but we feel those things should be vanity items rather than those that give you a clear benefit over other players in-game.
That said, we are introducing a feature this expansion [Incursion], that does allow you to re-map your attributes using Pilot Licence Extensions, which are bought both in-game and on our website. PLEX represents 30-days subscription within the game.
We will evolve just like everyone else. We will certainly not become a dinosaur. That has not been our style.
Even though I am for this feature, as I stated in a comment in the 'No...' proposal, I am NOT in favor of a cash shop in EVE. This statement by Olafsson leaves a sour taste in my mouth as it appears as though there is poison mixed in with the honey.
This is exactly why I posted my proposal (I thought it was pretty obvious tbh). Why did they introduce this feature as a microtransaction instead of being tied to an ingame mechanic. People were upset because they thought this would start us down the path of microtransactions.
Oh. and look what happened... lols.
-T'amber
[VANIR / AESIR WARS] C o m i n g S o o n Ö
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Rifean Nethulifus
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Posted - 2010.10.07 06:26:00 -
[26]
Not supported.
EvE is not a simple JRPG, how can you even support this kind of development?
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.07 06:43:00 -
[27]
Folks, if you DO support this (although as I've stated above, it's a moot point now), please remember to check the Support this topic: box below your editor when you write your reply. It is the second checkbox, directly beneath the Preview: checkbox. There are 7 of you who have posted thus far who obviously support this but there is only mine and one other thumbs-up registered.
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.10.07 07:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: T'Amber
Originally by: Rhok Relztem It appears as though the two proposals (Against and For) are a moot point for the moment and we will just have to wait to see how it actually does affect the game. Eurogamer's Robert Purchese posted an interview with CCP's EVE creative director, Torfi Frans Olafsson. On page 3 of the interview is the following question & answer:
Quote: Eurogamer: Business models in MMOs are changing. Are there any plans to use micro-transactions in EVE to allow people to re-map their skills?
Torfi Frans Olafsson: Yeah, we are looking at introducing virtual goods within the game, but we feel those things should be vanity items rather than those that give you a clear benefit over other players in-game.
That said, we are introducing a feature this expansion [Incursion], that does allow you to re-map your attributes using Pilot Licence Extensions, which are bought both in-game and on our website. PLEX represents 30-days subscription within the game.
We will evolve just like everyone else. We will certainly not become a dinosaur. That has not been our style.
Even though I am for this feature, as I stated in a comment in the 'No...' proposal, I am NOT in favor of a cash shop in EVE. This statement by Olafsson leaves a sour taste in my mouth as it appears as though there is poison mixed in with the honey.
This is exactly why I posted my proposal (I thought it was pretty obvious tbh). Why did they introduce this feature as a microtransaction instead of being tied to an ingame mechanic. People were upset because they thought this would start us down the path of microtransactions.
Oh. and look what happened... lols.
-T'amber
T'Amber, I am fully aware of why you posted your proposal and what your concerns were/are. Personally, I would prefer they had used an ingame mechanic too AND I was not without my reservations of this possibly leading to MTs. But in all honesty, this apparently is not the feature that will lead to MTs but is instead a product of that thinking already within CCPs discussions. The feature in and of itself is NOT a bad feature as so many have been shouting which is why I posted my proposal.
To be honest, I believe this decision goes a lot deeper than most of us realize. This is about finances for CCP. With two new games in development (WoD & Dust 514) one of which is a break from the usual for CCP in that it is both a console game that will be an MMO AND tied to a PC MMO, a major expansion in the works (Incarna) that will eventually add a whole new dimension to EVE, and the ongoing work needed to continue EVE itself and to keep it growing, thriving, and running as efficiently (yeah, BIG issue there) as possible, CCP obviously needs more money. The player base subs have not been growing fast enough to offset the cost of development which is one reason why the shiny new avatars are appearing a good 6 to 8 months before the launch of Incarna in the hope that it alone will begin to draw in those players who have shied away from EVE due to the lack of a true avatar. But that probably is not going to be enough and CCP knows that (they may be a lot of things in some players' minds, but dumb they are not). Thus, the sudden inclusion of PLEX for Neural Remaps and talk of other, cosmetic, MTs.
Think about it... with a player base of roughly 330,000, if just 5% of those players use the feature just one time, that equates to roughly $288,750.00 = (330,000 x 5%)($35.00/2). If 5% uses the feature on a semi-regular basis, that is a significant boost for the development coffers. If this helps to insure the continuation of and the growth of the game we all love so much, then I for one will step back from my hate of MTs and cash shops and give it a chance to work.
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Kwashi
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.10.07 08:29:00 -
[29]
I think you're conflating "boost to the developer's coffers" with "boost to improving the gameplay," two things which IMO don't at all correlate.
If CCP sees they can make lots of money merely by introducing micropayments instead of, say, polishing what they've got until it's so awesome that more people hear about it and sign up, then hey, why not just produce more of the thing that makes lots of money?
Throwing money at CCP for making the game worse won't get you a better game.
Not supported.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 10:56:00 -
[30]
Not supported.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Veronica HawtDeals
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 17:01:00 -
[31]
+1 Support |
Bhattran
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 17:33:00 -
[32]
Wow, I like how you got nearly all your pro and con points wrong or simply fail to understand how the things you are writing about actually work.
--Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.-- |
Xi Dra'Gaan
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 21:43:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Bhattran Wow, I like how you got nearly all your pro and con points wrong or simply fail to understand how the things you are writing about actually work.
Wow! I'm amazed at your superior reading comprehension and complete understanding of how things actually work.
+1 - Supported
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Spyke BlackIce
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 22:36:00 -
[34]
This whole matter is insane.
Got my support though.
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Diomedes Calypso
|
Posted - 2010.10.07 23:57:00 -
[35]
There should be some ways to enhance your players skills somewhat faster by work in the game. Using months subscribed as the primary metric of how many sps characters have in the account is ok, but hardly any lofty ideal. Its more a lesser evil choice. Going to a 100% advancement by pve achievement (grind) wouldn't be something I suggest, but allowing those who so choose to leap forward a few months a year (20 to 30%) hardly would throw out the primary time metric.
Wisdom and skills are developed by time and effort...seems to be a good role play and competitive mix to me...(and the game is nicely competitive between people with vastly disparate skills already...some vitaly important roles can be played by very low sp characters .
As I buy plex for 4 accounts each month with isk I've earned in game, the plexes are phychologically no different to me. On a logical basis, other people should be able to over come their opposite phychological bias and realize that each and every item that can be aquired with isk in the game is essetially a micro transaction already.
$ already translates directly to any item or privalege that can be bought with isk...that should be pretty clear to anyone thiking about it. It matters not if its a plex or 350 million isk that need to be transferred to a NPC or another player to get something.
So.. to me it boils down to
Is it a good idea for players to be able to earn a re-map ?
and
Should we keep the game with its economy at the center of allowing a sandbox of many different ways to earn isk according to play prefference...or should all new things of value force characters to perform specific PVE "missions" with un-trnaferable rights to the price ?
I think its a good idea to have a way to earn extra re-maps and I really like the idea that the game doesn't force us into specific channels and "bind on contact" dynamics.
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So'Lar Wynde
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Posted - 2010.10.08 05:36:00 -
[36]
After reading everything that I could find about this I've come to the conclusion that the majority of the protest is either based on fear of change, fear that someone out there may gain a slight advantage on them and therefore they are being treated unfairly, or it is simply the OMG! Stampede! factor where everyone gets caught up in the push.
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ifollowed through
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Posted - 2010.10.08 06:07:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Diomedes Calypso
As I buy plex for 4 accounts each month with isk I've earned in game,
you'll not be able to afford when this comes in, GTC / plex prices are already rising, folk aren't taking less than 700 mil for a GTC right now and that's only going to a lot worse
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Jon'Do Smith
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Posted - 2010.10.08 06:11:00 -
[38]
+1 support
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F'elch
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 09:37:00 -
[39]
Supported.
Bring it on. Let people throw their money away.
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ifollowed through
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Posted - 2010.10.08 12:38:00 -
[40]
huh, So'Lar Wynde, Jon'Do Smith, F'elch aren't a'lts o'f e'ach o'ther at'all eh ?
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Bluefix
Gnu Terror Corps
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 12:58:00 -
[41]
not supported
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So'Lar Wynde
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 13:19:00 -
[42]
Originally by: ifollowed through huh, So'Lar Wynde, Jon'Do Smith, F'elch aren't a'lts o'f e'ach o'ther at'all eh ?
Jon'Do is a member of my alliance, the other, F'elch, I've never met. Just because the names have an apostrophe in them doesn't automatically make them alts. I've seen hundreds of such names so by your reasoning, they must belong to someone with a huge bank account and a computer complex to multibox them all.
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Shaddak Da'Khan
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 13:46:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Shaddak Da''Khan on 08/10/2010 13:48:24 LMFAO Can I join the alt mega guy?!
edit - forgot the support
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Onyth
Had Holdings
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 16:09:00 -
[44]
NO, thums down, .... Just no. Plenty of reasons have been given by plenty of players.
This looks to much like a stepping stone to more plex transactions we do not want. CCP should spend their time fixing problems rather than making more! I would make a proposal for someone in the CSM to slap the one at CCP who came up with this crappy idea though.
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Bhattran
|
Posted - 2010.10.08 17:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Xi Dra'Gaan
Originally by: Bhattran Wow, I like how you got nearly all your pro and con points wrong or simply fail to understand how the things you are writing about actually work.
Wow! I'm amazed at your superior reading comprehension and complete understanding of how things actually work.
+1 - Supported
It is such a burden being surrounded by people who don't understand that, thank you for your compassion, if only more people could recognize how difficult their ignorance makes the world.
--Submit your bug reports via mental telepathy this will streamline CCP ignoring them.-- |
Kinta Huron
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.08 20:49:00 -
[46]
Supported.
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 00:16:00 -
[47]
NOT supported
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 00:19:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kinta Huron Supported.
Thanks for the support Kinta. Would you do me a favor though... edit your post and tick the support checkbox.
If any of you others who have supported this come back to read the comments, pleae do likewise...
- Greken?
- Crazy Katie
- Nicien
- Duke Hamilton1
- Apollo Gabriel
Thanks
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Jumpgate Slate
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 06:37:00 -
[49]
+1
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Te'Cumseh Nadowa
|
Posted - 2010.10.09 21:01:00 -
[50]
Hell yes!
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Cupio Mortem
|
Posted - 2010.10.10 08:26:00 -
[51]
People get famous by making a ****-ton of isk, then worry people might catch up, so spew BS arguments in hopes they get their way. Luckily CCP is smart enough to ignore things like this. Plus I always cheer for the underdog. This won't help any underdog catch up nearly as much as the people "on top" fear it will (even full on implementation of microtransactions wouldn't, seeing as the PLEX market pretty much allows me to do whatever I want right away anyway), but I'm all for making them shift uncomfortably in their seats watching it be implemented, wishing they had shut their mouths in the first place when the world doesn't collapse.
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0oO0oOoOo0o
|
Posted - 2010.10.11 00:18:00 -
[52]
I support this adea. Also I don't get your arguement, that this will be an advantage for some. If someone didn't start 2003, he already has a big disadvantage, that can't be countered with this plex feature.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.10.11 01:11:00 -
[53]
Support, it's a means whereby a new player can try catch up. $35 for a couple extra remaps (on top of the bonus newbie remap) should be enough to get someone competitive in a year in small ships, which is still too long in my opinion, and $35 ain't much.
Now if only we can get rid of learning skills too.
Plex for remap is possibly the only microtransaction possible that 1) will be of greater advantage to newer players than older and 2) won't radically change game mechanics or structure.
Waiting a year and a half to be competitive in a battleship or HAC is not fun. Ideally, CCP would change the game structure to be more newbie friendly, but that would lead to ragequits above and beyond this, so this is probably the best possible option.
Still against shiny ship microtransactions or direct SP microtransactions.
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Mike deVoid
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.10.11 22:41:00 -
[54]
-------- Is this a rhetorical question? |
helmut cheddar
|
Posted - 2010.10.12 00:47:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Support, it's a means whereby a new player can try catch up. $35 for a couple extra remaps (on top of the bonus newbie remap) should be enough to get someone competitive in a year in small ships, which is still too long in my opinion, and $35 ain't much.
Now if only we can get rid of learning skills too.
Plex for remap is possibly the only microtransaction possible that 1) will be of greater advantage to newer players than older and 2) won't radically change game mechanics or structure.
Waiting a year and a half to be competitive in a battleship or HAC is not fun. Ideally, CCP would change the game structure to be more newbie friendly, but that would lead to ragequits above and beyond this, so this is probably the best possible option.
Still against shiny ship microtransactions or direct SP microtransactions.
you make it sound like this covers every noob, it only covers noobs with spare cash or spare time, those without either are just **** out of luck i guess.
not supported
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.10.12 07:39:00 -
[56]
PLEX for remap is just trading an in-game item for in-game benefits. Would you be mad if it was CNR for remap? Or 350M ISK fee for remap? If you want to whine about microwhatever, whine about PLEX for $15.
One more available remap would solve my big skill dilema, and being able to remap for PLEX would at least give me some incentive to make ISK (no wars lately = boring). Players who have the skills (no, not the ones you buy with SP) to make ISK wouldn't have to wait three months to be able to fly a ship they could buy a dozen of right now. ___________ EVE is dying! Now for real! |
SleeperAcolyte
|
Posted - 2010.10.12 09:24:00 -
[57]
Quote: PLEX for remap is just trading an in-game item for in-game benefits.
NO, plex is not a normal ingame item, it can be bought with real world currency. THAT, is the difference. If it was a mission reward or some type of ingame event, I wouldn't mind.
People are confusing 2 different problems, the NEED for more remaps to make up for newbie mistakes and such and microtransactions in general. Making remaps a microtransaction item is a BAD solution to a legitimate problem. Like many said, it fixes an ingame mechanic by assigning a dollar amount to the solution. There are plenty of ways to address the problem with fixes to ingame mechanics or really any variety of events.
I took the time to plan & carefully do my remaps, others didn't and are now at a distadvantage, but thats what eve is about, to plan ahead or suffer the consequences. To simply pay 15$ to catch up is just lame. I understand alot of people that wasted their remaps would look at this as a chance to finally fix their newbie mistakes. But it also allows people to plex their way through repeated unlimited remaps to retain the maximum SP/Hour, circumventing a game mechanic that has made everyone equal, that is that SP cannot be bought with isk/real cash. After this, those that have the pockets will be able to do so.
Remaps are limited, plexing for them will be unlimited (or at least they don't seem to have announced an assigned limit to it). Better solutions perhaps reducing the interval for remaps ? adding a 3rd one ? Allowing a 1-time ingame event for it ? Hell I would be ok with this if they actually limit how many times you cap pay for it with a plex, its "somewhat" fair if you can still earn that isk and get the same treatment, but for the average person, he will never be able to compete with someone that WANTS to pay to have an almost perminant ingame advantage in SP/Hr.
Not supported. But I would support a different fix for remaps if you want to create such a proposal.
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JcJet
Caldari Pretenders Inc Tower of Dark Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.12 13:32:00 -
[58]
No. ---
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 03:51:00 -
[59]
Originally by: SleeperAcolyte
Quote: PLEX for remap is just trading an in-game item for in-game benefits.
NO, plex is not a normal ingame item, it can be bought with real world currency. THAT, is the difference. If it was a mission reward or some type of ingame event, I wouldn't mind.
People are confusing 2 different problems, the NEED for more remaps to make up for newbie mistakes and such and microtransactions in general. Making remaps a microtransaction item is a BAD solution to a legitimate problem. Like many said, it fixes an ingame mechanic by assigning a dollar amount to the solution. There are plenty of ways to address the problem with fixes to ingame mechanics or really any variety of events.
I took the time to plan & carefully do my remaps, others didn't and are now at a distadvantage, but thats what eve is about, to plan ahead or suffer the consequences. To simply pay 15$ to catch up is just lame. I understand alot of people that wasted their remaps would look at this as a chance to finally fix their newbie mistakes. But it also allows people to plex their way through repeated unlimited remaps to retain the maximum SP/Hour, circumventing a game mechanic that has made everyone equal, that is that SP cannot be bought with isk/real cash. After this, those that have the pockets will be able to do so.
Remaps are limited, plexing for them will be unlimited (or at least they don't seem to have announced an assigned limit to it). Better solutions perhaps reducing the interval for remaps ? adding a 3rd one ? Allowing a 1-time ingame event for it ? Hell I would be ok with this if they actually limit how many times you cap pay for it with a plex, its "somewhat" fair if you can still earn that isk and get the same treatment, but for the average person, he will never be able to compete with someone that WANTS to pay to have an almost perminant ingame advantage in SP/Hr.
Not supported. But I would support a different fix for remaps if you want to create such a proposal.
Right there is the problem. Players such as yourself equate PLEX to RL money. Nothing could be further than the truth. GTCs are bought with money, NOT PLEX (NOTE that when you 'purchase PLEX' from the EVE website, you are actually only purchasing multiples of a GTC). Those GTCs can be used in one of three ways...
- It is used from the player's account management area to add time to his/her subscription OUTSIDE of the game.
- It is sold OUTSIDE of the game in the Official Forum - Timecode Bazaar - for ISK (the ISK is of course then used INGAME).
- It is converted to PLEX from INSIDE of the game which is then used or sold INSIDE the game (but the GTC is purchased OUTSIDE of the game).
You cannot buy a GTC ingame nor can you buy PLEX directly with money ingame. You buy PLEX with ISK. PLEX properties include:
- Sell and buy it on the market FOR ISK and haggle over the price.
- Anyone, even the poorest EVE player in RL, can buy a PLEX.
- Store it in a hangar, container, or cargo hold.
- Transport it within a ship.
- Trade it for another ingame item.
- Put it into a contract or use it as payment for a contract.
- Give it to another player, to a corporation, or to an alliance.
- Transfer it to an alt.
- Lose it if your ship is destroyed while it is in the cargo hold.
- Salvage it.
- Use it to pay a ransom
If you will notice from that list, a PLEX is JUST LIKE ANY OTHER GAME ITEM, and just like any and all other game items, you cannot buy it with real money INGAME. You CAN however, just like the GTCs, buy a ready-made character with skill training in various amounts and with that character, you may also get any game item in that character's hangar if so agreed. Also notice that selling GTCs in the forums is the same as buying ISK WITH RL MONEY. That is a lot closer to buying an advantage than is using PLEX for a Neural Remap.
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SleeperAcolyte
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 06:40:00 -
[60]
Quote: Right there is the problem. Players such as yourself equate PLEX to RL money. Nothing could be further than the truth. ....
We equate plex to RL money because THAT is the only source of creating more plexes. I don't know of any other ingame mechanic that allows you to create a plex without having spent cash to obtain GTC's. Your list covered alot of the plex's properties but as you've pointed out the only way to add to that supply is by spending cash, obtaining GTC's and going through the process to turn them into ingame plexes. I cannot mission and buy a plex with LP, I can't mine/harvest one, I can't run sites and have a plex drop. All other ingame items have a way of creating them within the game itself, therefore PLEX is not a regular ingame item, even if it recieves almost the same treatment.
Even the news articles use plex prices to backtrack real world cost in evaluating heists or other ingame events involving the destruction/theft of lots of isk, even though RMT is technically forbidden and such numbers would be invalid to begin with. Another example is CCP's PLEX for Good campaigns, with ccp promising to provide the equivalent real world value of plex's that are donated to a ccp char (and thus removed from ingame market supply) to humanitarian organisations. THAT is the truth, the reality is that plexes have a real world value, and as a by product of that so does ISK. If I'm not mistaken, that was one of the original intents of plex's to begin with. To undermine RMT and isk sellers by providing a secure & closed loop system of buying isk.
But you know what, thats an entirely different issue all together and only one of the reasons I don't support it. The biggest reason I don't support this is because it breaks the limit on remaps, it doesn't extend it or change it, it completely breaks it. You can have unlimited remaps for as long as your ingame/realworld wallet can allow, THAT is imo the biggest problem. I may agree with you on the value of having a higher amount of remaps to account for newbie mistakes or plan changes or many of the stuff you listed under "pros" in your proposal or by others that supported this. Certainly the need for more remaps is there, I just believe this would be a terrible solution to it, hell its not even a solution its a work around that has a real world value assigned to it.
However should a limit be implemented, I may change my position on this, but until then I cannot support it. In addition, if CCP is using this as the first of possibly more "cosmetic" microtransactions, it does not bode well for the rest of their microtransaction lineup. Because neural remaps are certainly not cosmetic at all, its brain surgery !
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 07:17:00 -
[61]
Originally by: SleeperAcolyte
We equate plex to RL money because THAT is the only source of creating more plexes. I don't know of any other ingame mechanic that allows you to create a plex without having spent cash to obtain GTC's. Your list covered alot of the plex's properties but as you've pointed out the only way to add to that supply is by spending cash, obtaining GTC's and going through the process to turn them into ingame plexes. I cannot mission and buy a plex with LP, I can't mine/harvest one, I can't run sites and have a plex drop. All other ingame items have a way of creating them within the game itself, therefore PLEX is not a regular ingame item, even if it recieves almost the same treatment.
Even the news articles use plex prices to backtrack real world cost in evaluating heists or other ingame events involving the destruction/theft of lots of isk, even though RMT is technically forbidden and such numbers would be invalid to begin with. Another example is CCP's PLEX for Good campaigns, with ccp promising to provide the equivalent real world value of plex's that are donated to a ccp char (and thus removed from ingame market supply) to humanitarian organisations. THAT is the truth, the reality is that plexes have a real world value, and as a by product of that so does ISK. If I'm not mistaken, that was one of the original intents of plex's to begin with. To undermine RMT and isk sellers by providing a secure & closed loop system of buying isk.
But you know what, thats an entirely different issue all together and only one of the reasons I don't support it. The biggest reason I don't support this is because it breaks the limit on remaps, it doesn't extend it or change it, it completely breaks it. You can have unlimited remaps for as long as your ingame/realworld wallet can allow, THAT is imo the biggest problem. I may agree with you on the value of having a higher amount of remaps to account for newbie mistakes or plan changes or many of the stuff you listed under "pros" in your proposal or by others that supported this. Certainly the need for more remaps is there, I just believe this would be a terrible solution to it, hell its not even a solution its a work around that has a real world value assigned to it.
However should a limit be implemented, I may change my position on this, but until then I cannot support it. In addition, if CCP is using this as the first of possibly more "cosmetic" microtransactions, it does not bode well for the rest of their microtransaction lineup. Because neural remaps are certainly not cosmetic at all, its brain surgery !
The point though, SleeperAcolyte, is that once that PLEX is ingame anyone can use it, not just the person who had the extra cash to buy the GTCs in the first place. Most players who buy GTCs either apply them directly to their account or sell them in the forums or through the conversion feature. Those who sell them rarely use them for their own account. I know. Over a 6 month period this past year, I sold a LOT of GTCs in the Bazaar. I always had a few billion to share among my accounts for implants, highend skillbooks, and expensive ships and mods, and that gave me a HUGE advantage over other players. When this PLEX for Neural Remaps goes live though, I will go to buying PLEX with ISK because $17.50 a pop for a remap to save a few weeks a year in training is not cost effective in my book. I would wager that most sellers of GTCs/PLEX feel the same way.
Along that same vein, how would this break the remap feature? No one in his/her right mind would spend a PLEX for a remap frequently unless 1)you are rolling in cash, or 2)you have been playing & hoarding your ISK for years and are one of the few elite EVE rich. The common player is only going to be able to use maybe a few a year at most.
As for a limit, I added that to the proposal shortly after I posted it and I'd bet CCP has looked at a limit too, although I honestly don't believe it will be needed.
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BlackIce Adder
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 07:25:00 -
[62]
Been teetering on the fence on this issue but I like your perspective on it even though I loathe microtransactions.
Supported
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SleeperAcolyte
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 08:46:00 -
[63]
Quote: Along that same vein, how would this break the remap feature? No one in his/her right mind would spend a PLEX for a remap frequently unless 1)you are rolling in cash, or 2)you have been playing & hoarding your ISK for years and are one of the few elite EVE rich. The common player is only going to be able to use maybe a few a year at most.
1) It may certainly seem reasonable to expect people wouldn't spend tons of cash to gain an advantage, but that is not always the case. There are many examples where people have funded capitals, towers, ships and character purchases through real cash and didn't think twice about it. I know a few and I bet you do to, its not that rare a phenomena. Plus you get 2 Plexes for the GTC if I'm not mistaken, so thats already 2 more possible remaps for a single purchase.
2) A plex may be an expensive item, but I'm sure many people have alts that are completely subscribed through plexes including me, so spending them on a semi-regular base does not require you to be filthy rich. Certainly remaps won't be used every other day, but if some eve players can manage to get a plex per month, I would expect them to be able to afford a remap per month, rendering the entire remap system pointless. Certainly you can seperate your plan into month-long remaps, or maybe 2-month long to save isk and you'd still maintain an almost perfect SP/H ratio. That is how the lack of a limit would break this mechanic. It effectively introduces "Power leveling" into eve.
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Manipulator General
o.0
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 11:13:00 -
[64]
meh, why not.
Besides, it's not like these proposals every amount to anything. Ever. They're about like entries in the Features & Ideas Recycle Bin subforum.
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Rhok Relztem
Caldari CGMA Synergist Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 12:07:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Manipulator General meh, why not.
Besides, it's not like these proposals every amount to anything. Ever. They're about like entries in the Features & Ideas Recycle Bin subforum.
LOL True. Actually, since CCP has already stated that PLEX for Neural Remaps WILL be in the winter expansion, this is nothing more than a discussion on the issue as is the 'No...' proposal. Still, it's nice to get a few more supporting it even though the Nays are waaaaay out in front due to fears of an unfair advantage and gaming-breaking MTs to follow. I just don't see either one happening personally.
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SleeperAcolyte
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 13:27:00 -
[66]
Well there is the vain hope that some CCP developer will read all this and perhaps take it into account as constructive critique. If not, at least the strong backlash against this may influence future offerings of "cosmetic microtransactions" that modify game mechanics.
I would be much more ok with this with a limit in place, but I'm more worried about these types of situations happening again and having to debate other microtransactions that blur the line between vanity item and modifying existing game mechanics. At the end of the day CCP is going to do whatever it wants and whatever makes business sense.
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
|
Posted - 2010.10.13 13:30:00 -
[67]
Very much like +XP scrolls in other games. Not supported. The whole remap thing is screwed in its basis. Why not remaps every 24h cooldown?
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Xi Dra'Gaan
|
Posted - 2010.10.16 13:07:00 -
[68]
Back to the top.
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Vihura
|
Posted - 2010.10.26 15:42:00 -
[69]
Suported
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Wu Jiaqiu
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.10.30 14:47:00 -
[70]
Supported. Because why the hell not? Everyone benefits from this.
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RS Murphy
SniggWaffe GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.10.31 00:34:00 -
[71]
supported -RS Murphy
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Lord Lewtz
|
Posted - 2010.11.02 17:12:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Lord Lewtz on 02/11/2010 17:16:04 I support.
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Mocam
|
Posted - 2010.11.03 00:36:00 -
[73]
No.
ISK for remaps I can see but PLEX? No. There is a difference between them though you obviously are too blind to see it.
This is flat out buying a way around game mechanics with cash. Your cash or someone else's. With ISK more could be done with respect to how it operates -- rep at stations, etc... could effect the prices but with PLEX... That's cash & carry.
As for the effect of remaps, I sure as hell know more about this than you do. I misunderstood what "2 free remaps" meant at the start so had to remove a remap across my first year of play. I SAW over 2 million SP come out of my first years training plan so this isn't "trivial". This *IS* buying SP with cash just the same as the "logic" of buying ISK with cash via PLEX comes into play.
So ISK for remaps? I'd support that. How someone got the ISK is their business but PLEX? That I don't support. Try INTERACTING in the game vs just tossing $$ at it to advance faster and buying GTC to immediately swap for remaps isn't "interacting" with anyone beyond CCP.
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DURRRHHH
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Posted - 2010.11.03 01:34:00 -
[74]
I support this, as this will bring up plex prices and therefore get me more money when I put real $$$ into a game.
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Pseudo Ucksth
Collegium Mechanicae Dominus Bellorum
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Posted - 2010.11.07 19:41:00 -
[75]
Supporting with main
I guess this is more of a symbolic gesture than anything else at this point but hey there you go.
______
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Gelanone
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Posted - 2010.11.08 10:38:00 -
[76]
Supported!
Being able to correct mistakes you've done, and to train the skills you want for whatever new path you want to go in the eve universe is good.
The hysteria with ppl thinking CCP is the big great evil that will abuse Plex/MT's is just hilarious.
Get real ppl.... and its only a game. |
Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.09 10:13:00 -
[77]
TO be honest i don't see a big deal about this. Yes, plexes will become slightly more expencive because people will buy plexes with ISK to get remaps. That's about it. Might not be a good thing, bu does not look like a disaster to me. THat being said, i remain neutral, and will not show my support to either proposal or counterproposal.
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Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.11.11 15:52:00 -
[78]
Ill admit I'm not thrilled with the idea myself. But I do see how this is an obvious business decision that doesn't ruin the game.
I'm supporting because they are allowing people to do this with plex and not just a direct money payment to ccp. I find it unlikely that I will use this feature myself but I probably would have when I first started.
I hope ccp continues to make any microtransactions available through plex as opposed to direct "cash only."
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
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