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49473
Jita Trade and Research Institute
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Posted - 2010.10.03 13:23:00 -
[1]
The Jita Trade and Research Institute will now offer to the public its own credit ratings for IPOs, bonds, loans and any other securities posted.
What is a Credit Rating?
Quote: A credit rating is the result of an assessment of the credit worthiness of a corporationÆs debt issues.
For the purpose of credit ratings contained herein, the Jita Trade and Research institute defines credit rating as such;
Quote: It is an evaluation made by a credit rating agency from data about individual borrowerÆs overall credit history and the credit history of any particular group to which that borrower might belong.ö
Jita Trade and Research InstitutesÆ credit rating methodology Details on the methodology used can be found in the document linked below: IPOs/Bonds: Analysis and introduction to Credit Ratings Document does reflect the general credit rating methodology, however it may not precisely reflect improvements made because of private/public discussion; all changes however will be mentioned in the discussion thread.
Discussion of the credit rating methodology used can be found in the document linked below: Discussion thread If you would like to discuss the methodology used, or make enquiries as to details not given n the document please use the thread linked above.
Details of JTRI disclosure can be found in the document linked below: Jita Trade and Research Institute Credit Rating Disclosure
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49473
Jita Trade and Research Institute
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Posted - 2010.10.03 13:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: 49473 on 03/10/2010 13:52:09 Edited by: 49473 on 03/10/2010 13:30:18 Credit Ratings: This will be updated semi-regularly, and requests can be made for updates to particular credit ratings.
2010.10.01- Production Bond: 20B - 4% Thread This IPO/Bond receives a BBB- credit rating. This investment is/has Lower medium grade and is Investment Grade.
2010.09.30 - Bond offer: half left - one day to reserve - 10% + 25% profit Thread This IPO/Bond receives a CCC credit rating. This investment is/has Extremely speculative and is Non-Investment Grade.
2010.07.28 - BSAC Stock Exchange - Cash Reserve Thread This IPO/Bond receives a A credit rating. This investment is/has Upper medium grade and is Investment Grade.
Historic Credit Ratings document:
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Kylria Ruiz
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Posted - 2010.10.03 14:05:00 -
[3]
The link to the 2010.07.28 - BSAC Stock Exchange - Cash Reserve A rated is linking to the CCC rated thread.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.10.03 14:12:00 -
[4]
Blue font hurts my brain
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente League of Gentlemen Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.10.03 14:14:00 -
[5]
Out of curiosity, how would JTRI rate me, historically?
DesuSigs |
49473
Jita Trade and Research Institute
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Posted - 2010.10.03 14:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kylria Ruiz The link to the 2010.07.28 - BSAC Stock Exchange - Cash Reserve A rated is linking to the CCC rated thread.
Thank you, corrected.
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49473
Jita Trade and Research Institute
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Posted - 2010.10.03 14:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane Out of curiosity, how would JTRI rate me, historically?
Please link a historic IPO/Bond you would like rated; however the rating will be more accurate than usual because your offering is more than likely contained in the data.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente League of Gentlemen Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.10.03 14:37:00 -
[8]
Here's one.
Haiku Bond
DesuSigs |
49473
Jita Trade and Research Institute
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Posted - 2010.10.03 17:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane Here's one.
Haiku Bond
This IPO/Bond receives a BBB credit rating. This investment is/has Lower medium grade and is Investment Grade.
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Companion Trollin
You are going too fast
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Posted - 2010.10.04 06:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: RAW23 Blue font hurts my brain
Indeed
♥
Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic.
Thanks.
-- Shadow
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Companion Qube
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Posted - 2010.10.04 08:52:00 -
[11]
For a bit of fun would you mind rating this? http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1382937
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.10.04 14:42:00 -
[12]
Could you rate this:
/finger
And just for fun could you also give me a rating for one of these:
/hip thrust |
Scott McClellan
Forum Posters Anonymous
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Posted - 2010.10.04 15:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Scott McClellan on 04/10/2010 15:31:36
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Could you rate this:
/finger
F
Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155
And just for fun could you also give me a rating for one of these:
/hip thrust
CCC
Will that be all?
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Berikath
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:05:00 -
[14]
So, I'm just curious- what rating would you have given both my loans? :)
If ya don't feel like taking the time I certainly won't blame ya, I'm just curious. :) *** Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing *Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:09:00 -
[15]
Out of curiosity, how did you work the rating for my last bond. As it started out at 225b then eventually shrunk down to 140b, before cashing out. but for the 100-200b range it does not seem to be included. Was it only counted once in the 200-400 range?
Also what kind of rating would you give me, just curious.
Grendell ♥
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Machete Visor
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:15:00 -
[16]
pls dear lord rework the colors... maybe list the bonds by ranking? or some other type of organization (date)?
good work, sorry to gripe, but that is borderline impossible to read.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:38:00 -
[17]
Edited by: RAW23 on 04/10/2010 18:38:50
Originally by: Grendell Out of curiosity, how did you work the rating for my last bond. As it started out at 225b then eventually shrunk down to 140b, before cashing out. but for the 100-200b range it does not seem to be included. Was it only counted once in the 200-400 range?
Sorry, my fault. I was counting payments due in September as the cut off date for inclusion in the data, so yours appeared as 225 x 1 month with the Sept. 1st payment. The drawdown would have counted as a separate bond but because the payment was due in October (albeit paid out early) I didn't count that one when I could have done so quite reasonably. The reason for not counting it was that I was gathering the data to test my own hypothesis that MD investing was a worthwhile pursuit and I preferred to err on the side of excluding data that might support the hypothesis, rather than take a more generous approach and potentially bias my result.##Edit - Online now btw.
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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
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Posted - 2010.10.04 18:42:00 -
[18]
I'm at work but if eve-mail works for you perhaps we can do that Grendell ♥
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Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.10.04 21:58:00 -
[19]
Amusing, but credit ratings have always been, and still are, a terrible idea. In an environment where there are so many tools lacking, a number that represents and replaces actual information and investigation only hurts, not helps, investors. If anything players should become more and more discerning about investments instead of being lax. Enough scams claim investor ISK as it is without credit scores encouraging ignorance. In the end the careless almost always get screwed, but I don't see the point in encouraging this. ______________________________
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Morolen1
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.10.04 23:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste Amusing, but credit ratings have always been, and still are, a terrible idea. In an environment where there are so many tools lacking, a number that represents and replaces actual information and investigation only hurts, not helps, investors. If anything players should become more and more discerning about investments instead of being lax. Enough scams claim investor ISK as it is without credit scores encouraging ignorance. In the end the careless almost always get screwed, but I don't see the point in encouraging this.
a thousand times this... ----- I'm a Caldari Nationalist, Fascist is *Such* an ugly word. |
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.10.05 13:40:00 -
[21]
I find it entertaining that a totally unknown person who apparently has 0 experience investing in MD offerings is offering 'credit ratings' based on fairly arbitrary information.
Frankly they're useless, at best, and I agree 100% with Seleene.... they are actually more likely to cause more people to be careless about investing than they are to help anyone. Investing in EVE isn't about reading a credit rating (or even an audit) and then automatically plugging your isk into the faucet thinking it's 'safe' because xyz said it's low risk or xyz said it gets a BBB+ credit rating. It's about evaluating every single investment, determining what level of risk you are willing to take and figuring out whether you think the IPO/Bond owner is going to scam or not.
On top of that you're issuing credit ratings almost completely arbitrarily taking very little into account when you do so. Which renders your 'credit scores' utterly useless. You don't even do 1/10th the research that the auditors do and we already know that Audits aren't an accurate measure, they just give investors information they can use to help form an opinion.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.10.05 14:40:00 -
[22]
Quote:
we already know that Audits aren't an accurate measure, they just give investors information they can use to help form an opinion
I just wanted to bold the relevant part since it's mistaken and miswritten so often.
There were two auditor schools in the past: give "dry" information or give "judgements".
I'd say only the former has survived. In my case I'll underline "obvious" information, i.e. "the guy looks competent at <stuff> since he got the skill <stuff making> to level IV" but that's it.
The rest are homeworks every investor HAS to do, or risk big.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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49473
Jita Trade and Research Institute
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Posted - 2010.10.05 17:10:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Actually I have 1) You have no, or at most very very little, practical experience with investing in MD to base your ratings on. 2) You do not have access to any information not already publicly available to anyone in the game. You base your credit score on nothing but a 'hunch' based on pretty much nothing. 3) You do very little research before issuing a credit rating. 4) You don't check their balance sheet. (no api) 5) You don't check their assets on hand. (no api) 6) You don't compare their offering to their time in game. 7) You don't check their market volume (can't because you don't get an api) 8) You don't check their associations (no api) 9) You don't even use eve-search on the char name to see if anything pops up that's suspicious.
So bottom line: Your credit rating is based on ... nothing ... other than forum posts. Which is a terrible tool to try to advise people what someone's 'credit rating' is.
When I accept an application to join my corporation I do a more thorough check on people than your credit rating system does. It's a complete sham which serves no purpose.
Actually you havenÆt: 1) The credit ratings are not based on my vague hunches from long term ôpractical experienceö, but rather are formed from solid methodology based on collected data. It unfortunate you continue these fallacious attacks, because it detracts from any argument against credit ratings you could make.
2) Whether or not the information is in public or not is irrelevant to its usefulness in this tier of credit ratings, you clearly havenÆt read or understood the associated documents, concepts and discussion around the credit ratings if you are to say ôbased on nothingö.
3) I have done a great deal of research, you should not mistake speed for laziness in thoroughly researching.
4) The methodology of my credit ratings has been created to work without the cooperation of any debt issuer, however I will more than likely create a second tier of credit rating that does precisely the things you have labeled as criticisms 4, 6, 7, 8. 5) Read 4 6) Actually I do 7) Read 4 8) Read 4 9) Actually I do
So bottom line: You criticisms are baseless, other than irrelevant attacks on my status as an MD investor/participant and a gross misunderstanding of the methodology you do not seem to have added anything to the discussion.
In response to your additional comment about your aptitude in corporate applications, I will add this http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1376527/
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.10.05 17:49:00 -
[24]
you make me sick
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.10.06 00:13:00 -
[25]
As I mentioned here
Your credit rating is meaninless since it has no way to show wallet transfers to known scammers.
Your credit rating could be helping a scammer or hurting a legit offering.
From now on, any rating you give in an offering (not in this thread) will be reported as spam along with a link to this thread on how you are calculating the rating. Which qualifies as spam since it is meaningless.
I encourage others to do the same.
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Jan VanRijkdom
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Posted - 2010.10.06 03:05:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 06/10/2010 03:07:53 Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 06/10/2010 03:07:33 Edited by: Jan VanRijkdom on 06/10/2010 03:07:13 Whoa_guys.
Don't_be_hatin'_yo.
I_thought_the_idea_was_interesting._Not_to_be_taken_as_the_final_criterion_that_would_determine_your_decision_ to_invest_or_not,_but_another_point_of_interest_to_be_taken_into_at_least_minor_account._I_don't_see_the_need_for_all_the_hate.
He_spent_at_least_some_time_running_numbers_etc_and_coming_up_with_parameters__to_issue_ratings_by.
If_you_don't_want\trust_the_ratings_then_don't_consult_the_thread.Again,_all_investments_are_a_risk,_so_do_your_research,etc'etc'\blablabla.
I_don't_think_blind_trust\acceptance_of_this_opinion_is_solicited_here.
All_choices_to_invest_do_in_the_end_come_down_to_'hunches_and_personal_decisions,_as_past_competence\trustworthiness_has_been_shown_ to_not_be_foolproof(obviously).
So,_as_with_audits_they_shouldn't_be_taken_as_being_'told'_what_to_do_invest\not,_but_another_opinion_to_factor_into_the_equation.
Also:KBFAIL
Sorry_for_the_ridiculous_look\hard-to-read-ness-_of_my_postage...
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2010.10.06 08:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jan VanRijkdom Sorry_for_the_ridiculous_look\hard-to-read-ness-_of_my_postage...
Even with a broken spacebar, you can still type a space character using ALT+32 (numbers typed on the numeric keypad), or you can copy a space character from some other document to paste into your own.
And if you can type SHIFT+"-" between each word to insert an underscore, why not copy a space character from somewhere else (e.g., this forum post) and then type SHIFT+INSERT between each word to insert a space?
You could also use Find/Replace to change "_" to " " (typed as above) in your posts. á á
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49473
Jita Trade and Research Institute
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Posted - 2010.10.06 17:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Breaker77 As I mentioned here
Your credit rating is meaninless since it has no way to show wallet transfers to known scammers.
Your credit rating could be helping a scammer or hurting a legit offering.
From now on, any rating you give in an offering (not in this thread) will be reported as spam along with a link to this thread on how you are calculating the rating. Which qualifies as spam since it is meaningless.
I encourage others to do the same.
This is an unfortunate stance you are taking, however I will continue and we will see how CCP judge my posts.
Simply because I am not privy to api data or rather that the credit ratings do not function on the basis of api data does not make them meaningless; my methodology is quite distinct from that on an auditor.
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.10.06 19:06:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 06/10/2010 19:09:53
risk ratings that are purely based on historical data... what could possibly go wrong?
thought we had learned that lesson the hard way IRL only recently...
I think you should give us some statistics that can be used to judge the quality of your rating model later on. Give us the risk of default/scam associated with each rating level (how do you handle the risk of partial loss as opposed to complete losses btw?) and agree to inform us whenever you make significant adjustments to your rating formula. This will allow us to revisit this topic in several months (condition to you staying in the business for that long) and evaluating the quality of your ratings. Up to that point at which we could determine the quality of your model based on the evaluation of its application on out-of-sample data over a longer timespan, I will treat your ratings as meaningless and will advise others to take the same approach to reading (or rather ignoring) them.
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eliaja
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Posted - 2010.10.06 19:40:00 -
[30]
my concern is who will be the people performing the analysis because it has been my experience that the same people that give the yea or nay on dbank and ebank an many other trusted institutions were given the green light an yet turned out to be scams. an these experts were the scammers themselves along with the auditors.
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