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Ramingo
Caldari Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.19 08:53:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ramingo on 19/09/2010 08:56:02 It's been a while since the last thread about broken FW mechanics, and just because CCP state they won't do any fixes for the next 1 1/2 years doesn't mean we should ease up on the pressure. In fact, we should hammer it into their inattentive heads as long as we still have the will to do so.
- Add alliances to FW, or in the very least make a war dec vs a single FW corp much, much more expensive. Corps in alliances get this protection, but why can a single FW corp be singled out and war decced by an entire alliance?
- Add FW icons to allied militia, to avoid newbies in friendly militia killing each other. Both of the hostile militia show up as war targets, why can't the other allied militia have a friendly icon rather than appearing as neuts?
- Enable militia to vote for a leader who can kick people out of militia and/or censor the militia chat.
- Reduce the effectiveness of RR alts in the opposing militia. Right now if you attack a RRer in your militia helping out the hostile militia, you take a huge faction standing hit for killing him. This is not fair and whilst not yet heavily abused, this will change sooner or later.
- Plexes:
- Make them worth fighting over, i.e. give LP, stat bonuses, or something. Anything other than a change of symbols in the overview.
- Balance NPCs. Caldari plexes are the toughest right now because of all the jamming (and I say this as a caldari FWer).
- Fix the bugging of timers, allowing 1 person to run down 20 plexes simultaneously in a system.
- Fix plex spawn times, so they appear throughout the day and not mostly right after DT.
Feel free to add onto this, if you can do it in bullet point style so I can just copy/paste them into the original thread for better oversight.
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David Devant
Gallente CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.09.19 09:13:00 -
[2]
Signed.
Would add...
- Get rid of post-dt plex rushes
- Chance of faction lewts from plexes
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.19 09:57:00 -
[3]
Support everything except for this:
"Enable militia to vote for a leader who can kick people out of militia"
I know I joined the militia to get AWAY from politics. The rest is great.
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Ramingo
Caldari Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.19 10:29:00 -
[4]
Well I had situations in mind where someone spams militia chat, is a RR alt which you can't attack without losing standings, or for example known spies like baccardi's good messenger alt in caldari militia.
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Coffeez
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.19 10:37:00 -
[5]
Well there is a block button you know.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.19 10:40:00 -
[6]
Edited by: chatgris on 19/09/2010 10:40:12
Originally by: Ramingo Well I had situations in mind where someone spams militia chat, is a RR alt which you can't attack without losing standings, or for example known spies like baccardi's good messenger alt in caldari militia.
I don't think that the minor annoyance the above creates (we have obvious spy alts like wuffwuff meowmeow and kassimes (sp?) in gal mil too ) is worth the politics. Politics are horrible, and if said politics can lead to being unable to participate in factional warfare... Not something I want to go anywhere near.
Especially since with politics - most people won't care, those that do care usually like drama and have an agenda, and it all goes to hell.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.09.19 10:52:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ramingo - Add alliances to FW...
Covered by this proposal. Would solve so many outstanding issues related to standings, wardecs and Goddess knows what else.
Originally by: Ramingo Add FW icons to allied militia...
Due to whatever simpleton standings system they used when implementing FW. It is essentially standings between NPC entities which I don't think their current system is capable of showing.
Originally by: Ramingo Enable militia to vote for a leader...
Bad idea. Politics are bad enough without game-supported ****ing contests. Allow #1 (alliances) and it becomes a moot point at any rate.
Originally by: Ramingo Reduce the effectiveness of RR alts...
Not FW specific and needs to be sorted for all instances. It is a just as big nuisance everywhere else really.
Originally by: Ramingo Plexes:.....
The whole plexing/occupancy system needs to be rethought. Stick with the size-limitation only but change practically everything else. Timers and NPCs are not mandatory things and can be swapped for a mini-game or something similar. The post-DT bias need to go .. best fights are in/over plexes and its a shame that the evening/night crowd has no real chance to experience the awesomeness that is plex combat PS: The timer bug has been squashed. CCP added a second proximity check that stops timer when people leave vicinity .. I have not been able to recreate it since hearing about it (Dominion I think).
Not going to repeat all my wishes. Have done it too many times already
Would be sweet if CCP set up a audio FW conference/roundtable of sorts with major players invited to get all the feedback 'live' as it were. Something like the FF session .. forum debate is rather limited in its ability to reach a consensus.
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Jones Bones
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2010.09.19 11:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ramingo Edited by: Ramingo on 19/09/2010 08:56:02 - Add FW icons to allied militia, to avoid newbies in friendly militia killing each other. Both of the hostile militia show up as war targets, why can't the other allied militia have a friendly icon rather than appearing as neuts?
- Enable militia to vote for a leader who can kick people out of militia and/or censor the militia chat.
- This one is taken care of with GCC...I don't see the point. - A single person who can kick out those he doesn't like? Think about how stupid that is.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.19 11:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jones Bones
- This one is taken care of with GCC...I don't see the point.
- you can't tell in local who's friendly and who's not without clicking on the members - Many of the minmatar militia (and come to think of it, gallente militia too) are perma-blinky
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.09.19 12:33:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ralnik on 19/09/2010 12:36:24
All are valid complaints, except the need for a voted in leader. We don't need morons with ego trips screwing up the fun of no politics.
Yes, it would be nice to do away with spies, as it does often create problems, but it's the same in null sec alliances, the only difference is they arn't trolls there, because they will get kicked.
While the block button does work, maybe CCP could do some sort of troll meter, that allows militia members to warn a spy/troll. After so many warnings he gets 30 min chat ban. Then the stakes could go up and after a certain number of chat bans over x amount of time he could be kicked from FW for 30 days or something.
This wouldn't stop recyclable noob alt trolls/spies but would do a lot against the others.
Something else, is you shouldn't be able to hide inside a militia in order to war dec corps of the same Militia. I know Minmatar have had this issue in the past.. Real l33t PVP types join the Militia to war dec another Milita corp which means other Militia members can't get involved with out also war decing.
This could be solved by not allowing war decs on friendly militia corp unless the aggressor corp drops out of FW. This wouldn't be a perfect solution, but it would in fact stop a lot of the troll type war decs.
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Good Messenger
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Posted - 2010.09.19 13:56:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Good Messenger on 19/09/2010 13:57:31
Originally by: Ramingo Well I had situations in mind where someone spams militia chat, is a RR alt which you can't attack without losing standings, or for example known spies like baccardi's good messenger alt in caldari militia.
Im no spay serioussssly
oh and it's bacardi with a single C goddamn in those 3 years of eve i've seen litterly thousands of different kinds of ways to type my name
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Oathborne
Caldari Genstar Inc
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Posted - 2010.09.19 15:18:00 -
[12]
Captured System Bonus: Give bonus LP to the Occupying Militia for killing WTs in a system they are the Occupying force in.
Sov: Caldari Occupying force: Gallente
Any Gallente Militia members who kill Caldari Militia in this system get bonus LPs for doing so.
Might make systems worth defending and give the Opposing side more reason to take those systems. Only effects FW and should not cause a problem to the general pop. Gives a reason to defend a system. I can't believe a system like that would be that hard to implement.
Though I've said it before and once again. If you want FW to heat up make real system consequences to everyone who does business in those systems and you will see the militia ranks expand ten fold.
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Sinister Dextor
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Posted - 2010.09.19 15:48:00 -
[13]
No-one cares
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Admiral Hawke
Failed Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.09.19 16:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ramingo
- Add alliances to FW, or in the very least make a war dec vs a single FW corp much, much more expensive. Corps in alliances get this protection, but why can a single FW corp be singled out and war decced by an entire alliance?
No in my opinion, this would inspire more stupidity. Leave the dec system alone, unless maybe it would be alliance don't get the discounted corp fee(corp decs corp = low fee, as it is now - alliance decs corp = alliance dec fee). Otherwise I think you'd find more blue on blue "accidents" as it'd be too much for some corps to declare war in their defense. (this probably doesn't make sense)
Originally by: Ramingo
- Add FW icons to allied militia, to avoid newbies in friendly militia killing each other. Both of the hostile militia show up as war targets, why can't the other allied militia have a friendly icon rather than appearing as neuts?
This is good. A corp mate of ours was engaged as a pirate, by an Amarr guy. Then Caldari jumped in because our corp mate defended himself. Which started a war.
Originally by: Ramingo
- Enable militia to vote for a leader who can kick people out of militia and/or censor the militia chat.
No, the chat channel doesn't say Alliance, therefore we don't need a popularity contest. If 90% of your miltiia is stupid, chances are a dumb ass would be elected, and your militia would go worse down hill.
Originally by: Ramingo
- Reduce the effectiveness of RR alts in the opposing militia. Right now if you attack a RRer in your militia helping out the hostile militia, you take a huge faction standing hit for killing him. This is not fair and whilst not yet heavily abused, this will change sooner or later.
Ummm, I'm not sure about the validity of this, but yea I agree. If an alt in an NPC corp goes flashy RR'n someone you're at war with and you kill them. There shouldn't be a loss of that corporation's standings. While it isn't an official aggression, it is an act of aggression towards anyone that is on the opposite side.
Originally by: Ramingo
- Plexes...
Could care less, not to mention I have no idea of mechanics and issues with these, as I've stayed away from plexing.
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Graham Johnstone
Minmatar Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.09.19 18:00:00 -
[15]
The only thing I really think needs to be changed to FW right now is Faction standing issues and plexes.
Once you have been promoted to the top level, there is no way to gain any Faction standing in Faction Warfare, which seems to be a little bit of an oversight. So as an example, I gained Amarr atandings to 8+ only to see them fall away to around 2 through a few incidents of remote repping -5 chars and a few "friendly" fire incidents.
Plexes are fairly useless as far as I am aware, there is just no incentive to do them at all. My solution would be for plexes to give a marginal faction standing gain as well as corp standings. It's not much but it might sway a few more people to do them without really being gamebreaking.
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Mutant Caldari
Caldari Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.09.19 19:07:00 -
[16]
- Make it so that corp/FW members can RR an outlaw who is in the militia without taking standings losses, sec status loss and becoming GCC
Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it? Killboard link is not allowed to be used in a signature.Applebabe
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2010.09.19 19:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Oathborne Captured System Bonus: Give bonus LP to the Occupying Militia for killing WTs in a system they are the Occupying force in.
You Sir are an idiot. The reason here is simple:
If you start giving a bonus to one side for an arbitary mechanic, side who is losing will lose the rest of it's member (except hardcore roleplayers) because they can see they can get "free stuff" by joining the other side.
This is Eve, it would happen, then there would be two militias farming LP's with FW missions to their hearts content. Naturally their alts would be in other militia to get some of the items you wont get from other sides lp store.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Bad Messenger
draketrain
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Posted - 2010.09.19 22:07:00 -
[18]
System occupancy war is currently useless, CCP has 'balanced it to point were systems can be captured in month from their orginal owner, but capturing back those conquered systens takes only 1-4 days. So in practice it is impossible to defend any conquered systems , atleast if you have nore than one of those.
I think reason why CCP 'balanced' that is that Caldari managed to defend system several months. Reason why Caldari kept those was PVP in plexes not plex spawning mechanics. Now the situation is more and more depending about plex spawn mechanics than before. There is no point to defend systems because it is just easier to take those back later abusing after down time plexing. I think CCP over reacted too early on that plex spawn balance, Caldari was already ready to lower down their efforts to keep systems.
FW is unplayable now, only thing that works is jump to Tama and die.
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Mutant Caldari
Caldari Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.09.19 23:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Bad Messenger System occupancy war is currently useless, CCP has 'balanced it to point were systems can be captured in month from their orginal owner, but capturing back those conquered systens takes only 1-4 days. So in practice it is impossible to defend any conquered systems , atleast if you have nore than one of those.
I think reason why CCP 'balanced' that is that Caldari managed to defend system several months. Reason why Caldari kept those was PVP in plexes not plex spawning mechanics. Now the situation is more and more depending about plex spawn mechanics than before. There is no point to defend systems because it is just easier to take those back later abusing after down time plexing. I think CCP over reacted too early on that plex spawn balance, Caldari was already ready to lower down their efforts to keep systems.
FW is unplayable now, only thing that works is jump to Tama and die.
<---All I have to say about a Draketrain member complaining. Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it? Killboard link is not allowed to be used in a signature.Applebabe
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Bad Messenger
draketrain
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Posted - 2010.09.20 00:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mutant Caldari
Originally by: Bad Messenger System occupancy war is currently useless, CCP has 'balanced it to point were systems can be captured in month from their orginal owner, but capturing back those conquered systens takes only 1-4 days. So in practice it is impossible to defend any conquered systems , atleast if you have nore than one of those.
I think reason why CCP 'balanced' that is that Caldari managed to defend system several months. Reason why Caldari kept those was PVP in plexes not plex spawning mechanics. Now the situation is more and more depending about plex spawn mechanics than before. There is no point to defend systems because it is just easier to take those back later abusing after down time plexing. I think CCP over reacted too early on that plex spawn balance, Caldari was already ready to lower down their efforts to keep systems.
FW is unplayable now, only thing that works is jump to Tama and die.
<---All I have to say about a Draketrain member complaining.
yea, it is sad to admit that my and my militia buddies actions lead CCP to make such bad decision and they broke whole fw. What have you done?
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.20 01:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Bad Messenger Reason why Caldari kept those was PVP in plexes not plex spawning mechanics. Now the situation is more and more depending about plex spawn mechanics than before.
.vs.
There is no point to defend systems because it is just easier to take those back later abusing after down time plexing.
Contradiction spotted!
Back when I tried to fight for plexes and the plex war was at it's height, way back when we had systems the first time, - I would scan 5-10 systems in my timezone and find *no plexes*. If I was on right after downtime - lots of plexes.
Saying that the after dt plex spawning wasn't the reason and then turning around and saying that we abuse after downtime now is quite interesting to say the least.
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Admiral Hawke
Failed Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.09.20 01:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mutant Caldari Blah blah...
I hate you MC. Like back in our frig flying, pirating in a dead end system like noobs, hate you. Last name ring a bell?
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Mutant Caldari
Caldari Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.09.20 01:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Mutant Caldari
Originally by: Bad Messenger System occupancy war is currently useless, CCP has 'balanced it to point were systems can be captured in month from their orginal owner, but capturing back those conquered systens takes only 1-4 days. So in practice it is impossible to defend any conquered systems , atleast if you have nore than one of those.
I think reason why CCP 'balanced' that is that Caldari managed to defend system several months. Reason why Caldari kept those was PVP in plexes not plex spawning mechanics. Now the situation is more and more depending about plex spawn mechanics than before. There is no point to defend systems because it is just easier to take those back later abusing after down time plexing. I think CCP over reacted too early on that plex spawn balance, Caldari was already ready to lower down their efforts to keep systems.
FW is unplayable now, only thing that works is jump to Tama and die.
<---All I have to say about a Draketrain member complaining.
yea, it is sad to admit that my and my militia buddies actions lead CCP to make such bad decision and they broke whole fw. What have you done?
How is the exploiting going for draketrain these days, br0ski?
Originally by: Admiral Hawke
Originally by: Mutant Caldari Blah blah...
I hate you MC. Like back in our frig flying, pirating in a dead end system like noobs, hate you. Last name ring a bell?
Hahaha, ohai Hawke <3. I said hi last time you were in Heyd and I was on MM. Convo me, I am on Miner atm. <3 Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it? Killboard link is not allowed to be used in a signature.Applebabe
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2010.09.20 04:19:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 20/09/2010 04:20:25
Originally by: chatgris Saying that the after dt plex spawning wasn't the reason and then turning around and saying that we abuse after downtime now is quite interesting to say the least.
You still dont get it do you? So I make it extremely simple for you:
1) CCP added the amount of plexes which spawn to system held by original sov holder*.
2) At most dt's this is 3-5 plexes per system. (very rarely none but it happens)
3) Plex amount in sov still held by original sov holder is the usual "0-3" on average.
4) Plexes get respawned in every "server starting" hic-up as well. If you dont know what this means, it means when server opening countdown runs to 0 but does not accept connections. Later it does not open up but gives another starting countdown.
5) Due to above one should be able to recapture any lost system the day CCP deploys an expansion as happened with Tyrannis where servers went through half-a-dozen server starts and as result Caldari occupied systems in Essence suddenly had dozens of plexes and it was only blind luck which stopped more than two systems going down.
Example, there a single server hic-up in one day and we got 13 plexes to Hirri. Ultimately that system was retaken in 3-4 days of actual bothering. How long did Val spend time grinding away offensive plexes to make it vulnerable? I dare say much much longer.
You may now continue boasting about you retaking OMS in two hours when Tyrannis gave you 29 plexes there because hey, Caldari must get same amount of plexes every downtime as well to systems they want to conquer. Right?
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
*This was not the case at the time of 22nd by my observation. Gallentes did manage to retake Alsavoinon, Annancale and Mantenault (I think) but these were long operations too.
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Bad Messenger
draketrain
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Posted - 2010.09.20 09:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: chatgris
Originally by: Bad Messenger Reason why Caldari kept those was PVP in plexes not plex spawning mechanics. Now the situation is more and more depending about plex spawn mechanics than before.
.vs.
There is no point to defend systems because it is just easier to take those back later abusing after down time plexing.
Contradiction spotted!
Back when I tried to fight for plexes and the plex war was at it's height, way back when we had systems the first time, - I would scan 5-10 systems in my timezone and find *no plexes*. If I was on right after downtime - lots of plexes.
Saying that the after dt plex spawning wasn't the reason and then turning around and saying that we abuse after downtime now is quite interesting to say the least.
we had all systems so we did not take all plexes after down time. So if you want to take systems you just have to plex to get those, maybe we managed to defend couple systems after downtime but there were so many systems that with little effort you could contest so many systems that time would not be enough.
You have to note that we had about 10 alts doeing plexes almost 23/7, how many daily active plexers gallente had? i quess less than that.
so it has nothing to do with plex mechanics, it was only that gallente did not want to do things because they did not benefit anything about it, they just died miserably in plexes. It was too much for couple guys to take systems.
Have a fun with taking Caldari systems :) , CCP made sure that you cant take them all.
Maybe we see some action after CCP fixes FW somehow. Personally i have no any ideas how to make it work better, i am just whining, Ankh was trying to improve things but personally i think she just ruined things more than improved.
This Game is about developing methods to solve problems like FW plexing has, you form up the fleet that can solve all problems, npc, other players etc. Gallete was not interested to do that, they just cried so much that CCP had to solve problems for them. well played !
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Ramingo
Caldari Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.20 09:33:00 -
[26]
I guess asking you guys to stop the discussion about the plexing (in terms of who did what, not what needs to be changed/is bugged) would be futile?
I'd really love to keep this thread as an ongoing list of things that are buggered up and that CCP should do something about (also which points are most important for us), if they ever decide that the few thousand of us FW players are worth their most precious time.
What I'd really like is a white knight of a dev to champion our cause and make low sec more interesting. One way of doing that would be to fix some of the things that are wrong with FW right now, which would lead to more players having more fun in FW, and thus offering more targets to pirates who will also have more fun as a result.
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Boneafi
Matari Stormriders
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Posted - 2010.09.20 10:13:00 -
[27]
There are a lot of valid points discussed above that need to be addressed sooner rather than later.
signed..
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2010.09.20 10:34:00 -
[28]
- Remove plexes
- Remove missions
Profit.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Kade Jeekin
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2010.09.20 10:50:00 -
[29]
* Remove missions * Give LP/ISK for Plex capture, amount comparable to similar level missions (eg Level 1 = Minor Plex, Level 4 = unrestricted major plex) spread amongst all allies within the plex-space * More LP for System capture (level 5 equivalent?) * Agents direct you to systems where plexes are * All NPC must be destroyed to start the plex timer, new spawn pauses the timer * ECCM needs to work against NPCs * Balance NPC ewar
Quote: Kinda'Shujaa - the Ushra'Khan Faction Warfare Detachment
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Ramingo
Caldari Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.09.20 11:35:00 -
[30]
* Remove missions No thanks, they're more interesting than empire missions due to having to watch out for hostiles/be on edge. * Give LP/ISK for Plex capture, amount comparable to similar level missions (eg Level 1 = Minor Plex, Level 4 = unrestricted major plex) spread amongst all allies within the plex-space Spread amongst all means you're gonna see throwaway chars in throwaway frigs leeching off real PvPers/Plexers. But yeah, some LP per capped plex would be great, same for defended ones. * More LP for System capture (level 5 equivalent?) Also good, but system capture is usually done over weeks by a whole bunch of guys, most of whom will probably not be on when the system flips. * Agents direct you to systems where plexes are Use your in-game map to show offensive/defensive plexes of your militia and voila. * All NPC must be destroyed to start the plex timer, new spawn pauses the timer Why? Speed tanking is a legit strategy and not killing NPCs puts you at a disadvantage when enemy players come in. * ECCM needs to work against NPCs Pretty sure it does? * Balance NPC ewar Already listed in original post
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