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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Noferatu
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Posted - 2010.09.06 12:01:00 -
[1]
This isn't a troll or moan.. I'm just curious.
Our corp was scammed this week to the tune of about 4b by a solo operator taking mostly T3 ships from a POS SMA.
The nature of the thievery is such that it left us puzzled; knowing the culprit's skillset, if he'd waited perhaps 10 days and trained accordingly, he could have easily tripled the number of assets (T3 ships) he could fly and therefore steal.
That led to the question: why did he apparently jump the gun?
The single possible answer we know of is that the recent CCP trailer about "revenge via infiltration" may have got him thinking about time, essence of etc. Risk (of being discovered before the Act) vs Reward is the scammer's rule of thumb after all.
In short, it's quite possible he went for it before CCP's video jolted anyone out of their comfort zones.
I'm not pointing a finger at CCP. Security is entirely the responsibility of players (although, CCP, it's bl**dy well time you did something about audits and POS security to make it more effective for us poor sods to keep thieves out of assets).
I really am curious though: Does anyone else have a similar internal scam/theft story from this week?
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CCP Shadow
C C P
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.06 12:36:00 -
[2]
I'd be very interested in hearing about this as well.
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Mytzso
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2010.09.06 12:40:00 -
[3]
sniping shadow
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Shino Tu
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.09.06 12:49:00 -
[4]
Yes, had a similar incident last nite..
My alt logged in and emptied my corp hanger, about 88 bil in assets, so this morning I logged in and stole them back..
"Unhappy people expect the world to adapt to them and happy people adapt to the world." |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.06 12:51:00 -
[5]
Someone in my corp biomassed over the weekend, after he wanted to have a POS. I decided that he can have one, if I get to anchor it. Then on the 8th did I receive the CONCORD mail. Maybe the new video inspired the idea of looking for "greener grass".
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Tiberious Heth
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Posted - 2010.09.06 15:46:00 -
[6]
why do people cry to ccp about people stealing from a pos because there is 'apparently' insufficient game mechanics to prevent it. thats bulls**t, the answer is simple - configure each and every structure so that only certain people can access them and if that means anchoring an extra ship maintenance array then do it. spend an extra 100mil on pos mods and save billions. for example, 1 ship maintenance bay for ceo and directors, 1 for miners and 1 for ratters or mission runners or whatever. only give them access to 1 division in corp hanger, or be a real stooge and dont give them any access and just launch their ships out for them.
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Nathan Jameson
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:15:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Nathan Jameson on 06/09/2010 16:16:00
 Originally by: Tiberious Heth
why do people cry to ccp about people stealing from a pos because there is 'apparently' insufficient game mechanics to prevent it. thats bulls**t, the answer is simple - configure each and every structure so that only certain people can access them and if that means anchoring an extra ship maintenance array then do it. spend an extra 100mil on pos mods and save billions. for example, 1 ship maintenance bay for ceo and directors, 1 for miners and 1 for ratters or mission runners or whatever. only give them access to 1 division in corp hanger, or be a real stooge and dont give them any access and just launch their ships out for them.
I do that, but it's still tricky. My new players get their own ship hangar and each has his own personal division in the corporate hangar array. Unfortunately, that means I can only really have 7 people in the POS with me (I personally use a component assembly array set to "Config. Starbase Equip.") More can use GSCs outside but that's terribly impractical.
The unfortunate thing is that there are only 4 levels of security in a POS, and two of them (corp and alliance) aren't selective at all. And the other two can either allow the user to offline your POS (by taking all the fuel out) or take it completely down and sell it.
I wish there were more levels of security and ways to give a player access to only one division in ONE building...that way I could have multiple corporate hangar arrays/component assembly arrays and still have tight security. Or, even, ways to put divisions in the ship maintenance array.
(If I go on any more, though, I'm going to get this thread moved to "Features and Ideas.")
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Bibosikus
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:17:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Bibosikus on 06/09/2010 16:18:35
Tiberius, I *did* specifically say I was NOT moaning, or pointing fingers. We lost, he gained, end of.
That said, I also pointed out that POS security mechanics are sub par; woefully so. Nobody will disagree with that. The main problem being that SMA access is a binary. Short of having an SMA for every corp member (ridiculous) or everyone keeping their ships in an Array tab and swapping them out into an otherwise empty SMA (dreadfully clunky), you cannot prevent someone who has access to an SMA from taking any ship that's in there.
This is why the large majority of (less headline-making) asset thefts occur in POS. Not because the owning corporations are any less vigilant. Simply because CCP has provided us with the wherewithall to buy and install hugely expensive kit without including decent padlocks.
(My main btw lol)
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Tiberious Heth
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Posted - 2010.09.06 18:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Nathan Jameson
Edited by: Nathan Jameson on 06/09/2010 16:16:00
Originally by: Tiberious Heth
why do people cry to ccp about people stealing from a pos because there is 'apparently' insufficient game mechanics to prevent it. thats bulls**t, the answer is simple - configure each and every structure so that only certain people can access them and if that means anchoring an extra ship maintenance array then do it. spend an extra 100mil on pos mods and save billions. for example, 1 ship maintenance bay for ceo and directors, 1 for miners and 1 for ratters or mission runners or whatever. only give them access to 1 division in corp hanger, or be a real stooge and dont give them any access and just launch their ships out for them.
I do that, but it's still tricky. My new players get their own ship hangar and each has his own personal division in the corporate hangar array. Unfortunately, that means I can only really have 7 people in the POS with me (I personally use a component assembly array set to "Config. Starbase Equip.") More can use GSCs outside but that's terribly impractical.
The unfortunate thing is that there are only 4 levels of security in a POS, and two of them (corp and alliance) aren't selective at all. And the other two can either allow the user to offline your POS (by taking all the fuel out) or take it completely down and sell it.
I wish there were more levels of security and ways to give a player access to only one division in ONE building...that way I could have multiple corporate hangar arrays/component assembly arrays and still have tight security. Or, even, ways to put divisions in the ship maintenance array.
(If I go on any more, though, I'm going to get this thread moved to "Features and Ideas.")
do not set pos so that anyone outside of ceo/directors can fuel, that way you can configure 1 hanger for 7 people and another hanger for 7 other people. if you want to go into technicalities you can turn that into 28 by allowing those with indy's the role of take container, that way they can store their stuff in container in 1 tab and someone else stores their stuff directly into same tab. 2 people using same tab but no access to each others stuff
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Taedrin
Gallente
White Haven Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.06 20:23:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Taedrin on 06/09/2010 20:26:20
Originally by: Bibosikus
Edited by: Bibosikus on 06/09/2010 16:18:35
Tiberius, I *did* specifically say I was NOT moaning, or pointing fingers. We lost, he gained, end of.
That said, I also pointed out that POS security mechanics are sub par; woefully so. Nobody will disagree with that. The main problem being that SMA access is a binary. Short of having an SMA for every corp member (ridiculous) or everyone keeping their ships in an Array tab and swapping them out into an otherwise empty SMA (dreadfully clunky), you cannot prevent someone who has access to an SMA from taking any ship that's in there.
This is why the large majority of (less headline-making) asset thefts occur in POS. Not because the owning corporations are any less vigilant. Simply because CCP has provided us with the wherewithall to buy and install hugely expensive kit without including decent padlocks.
(My main btw lol)
Use secure containers to add granularity to corp hangar access.
EDIT, to avoid confusion:
BY granting pilots TAKE permissions from a division, but NOT container permissions, they can access and use containers, but not remove them. This way you can put in multiple containers with different passwords in the same division. If you give each pilot a different secure container/password, then you restrict them to using ONLY that secure container without granting them the ability to steal other people's stuff.
End result: Each pilot has access to only their own secure container, and can't steal from other pilots unless they can use social engineering to get the password. Or you accidentally/foolishly grant them container permissions, then they can just remove the container or retriever the password from the container.
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Originally by: Dr Fighter
"how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Nathan Jameson
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Posted - 2010.09.07 04:37:00 -
[11]
@Tiberius + Taedrin:
I like the cut of your jibs, good sirs! Thank you for the splendid tips. 
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Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society
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Posted - 2010.09.07 08:28:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Aerion Va''rr on 07/09/2010 08:30:43
Scamming is the new black. Unfortunately I use 'new' very lightly.. since I'm referring to a time that started when B.O.B. was dismantled and ever since 20,000 idiots started going "I can do that"..
Unfortunately however, is every time some Tom, **** or Harry pulls off what would be the 'heist of a century' in their mind, they feel the need to post it here, and we get to give them the Fight Club "You are not special.." speech. The only novel thing thats come from this whole mess, is the idiot who got scammed posts on C&P proudly displaying his lack of intellect for all to... laugh at. It really is a dismal display of chest beating and e-peenery.
My question is... when can CCP give us new and inventful ways for us to **** each other over so I can stop reading the same **** ad naseum? Since, Nobody really cares who ****ed over who, as long as we can **** someone over, and boast about it here.
Edit: I still maintain that if you get scammed in a Trade Hub, Your an Idiot. If you blatantly assign Roles to people without thinking.. You deserve it, and your still an idiot.
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2010.09.07 08:31:00 -
[13]
Scammers are bad people IRL and cant be trusted. They all hate small children and poisoned their mothers for the insurance money.
Replying to threads without reading them since 2008 |
Aerion Va'rr
Dead Pilots Society
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Posted - 2010.09.07 08:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lana Torrin
Scammers are bad people IRL and cant be trusted. They all hate small children and poisoned their mothers for the insurance money.
How much did you make out with anyway? The insurance, from you Mother that is?
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2010.09.07 08:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aerion Va'rr
Originally by: Lana Torrin
Scammers are bad people IRL and cant be trusted. They all hate small children and poisoned their mothers for the insurance money.
How much did you make out with anyway? The insurance, from you Mother that is?
Not as much as I had hoped for.. I had to split it with siblings.. They are next on my list..
Replying to threads without reading them since 2008 |
Nathan Jameson
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Posted - 2010.09.07 17:47:00 -
[16]
@Tiberius + Taedrin:
Eh, the storing in containers + storing in divisions proper approach seems to be the best answer. It'll only double my current number of secure areas, but the other options don't work:
*Granting another 7 people the Starbase Fuel Operator status means they can also access the divisions in the normal corp hangar, which I don't want. I want people to be able to access only their own items.
*Also, you can't open a container while it's in the corp hangar, regardless of your permissions...you have to actually bring it out and put it inside your ship. And if I put more than one person's container in the same division, it allows them all to be stolen, passworded or not.
Thank you again for the ideas though, and I'll continue to hash through them.
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Teimait
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Posted - 2010.09.07 18:16:00 -
[17]
I have a more general question. Maybe CCP Shadow will read it and pass it along. Looking at the video a noob would think there was actually some way to get revenge. How do you take revenge on a biomassed alt? |
Razzor Death
Antares Shipyards
Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.09.07 18:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Teimait
I have a more general question. Maybe CCP Shadow will read it and pass it along. Looking at the video a noob would think there was actually some way to get revenge. How do you take revenge on a biomassed alt?
Kill his friends.
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I'm posting in your thread and I didn't even read the OP v0v |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.07 18:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Teimait
I have a more general question. Maybe CCP Shadow will read it and pass it along. Looking at the video a noob would think there was actually some way to get revenge. How do you take revenge on a biomassed alt?
You create a new char with a similiar name and get the char killed again, and again, and again, and until you feel less stupid.
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Bernard Schuyler
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Posted - 2010.09.07 18:57:00 -
[20]
The irony of the video to me is that it reflects typical scammer revisionist thinking. So our "protagonist" lost his Assault Frigate and a Pod. His "revenge" is he robs from thousands of other people in multiple corporations completely unrelated from the event that "wronged" him.
He scammed people, and is passing it off as righteous justice! Bravo CCP! 
The problem is that there is no real justice in Eve apart from you pop my ship, I pop yours. The only way to get truly "hurt" is to let someone hurt you - give them ISK, give them Roles, give them Access or Intel. Once you've been burned, you can't get "even" unless they also consent... and what's the odds the scammer will give you ISK, Roles, Access or Intel? Pretty slim. 
I love EVE and wouldn't change it, but I think this trailer is not the best one to highlight Eve... Even if big corp thefts are good publicity for them.
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.09.07 19:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Teimait
I have a more general question. Maybe CCP Shadow will read it and pass it along. Looking at the video a noob would think there was actually some way to get revenge. How do you take revenge on a biomassed alt?
I think his interest is so he can grab stories the devs can sit around and read over some beer and have many lulz.
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Roosterton
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Posted - 2010.09.07 21:12:00 -
[22]
Quote:
The irony of the video to me is that it reflects typical scammer revisionist thinking. So our "protagonist" lost his Assault Frigate and a Pod. His "revenge" is he robs from thousands of other people in multiple corporations completely unrelated from the event that "wronged" him.
He scammed people, and is passing it off as righteous justice! Bravo CCP!
I know, right? A true scammer wouldn't need some motive ****.
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Plocsk
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Posted - 2010.09.07 22:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Roosterton
I don't see the problem with this. Don't let someone in if you don't trust them; otherwise, you've already lost.
A corp theft is a betrayal of trust, when all is said and done. It will not come from someone you dont trust, it will come from someone you do.
It's pretty much impossible to avoid being exploited if you want to grow a corp. You also have no ability to perform a proper background check, due to the prevalence of clean, disposable alts. You'd need to know or work out the intentions of every person who joins, and there will always be someone out there who can "fake it" better than you can judge their character.
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Susung
Alt Anti-defamation League
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Posted - 2010.09.08 00:02:00 -
[24]
I can't imagine eve without scamming. Sure it hurts when your alliance gets ****d by a butthurt director and it seems like there are ripoffs goin on constantly.It happens in every game just in eve it's bigger and that is cool
And imagine how much more stagnant it would be without the occasional alliance fail-vacuum.
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Taedrin
Gallente
White Haven Corp
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Posted - 2010.09.08 01:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nathan Jameson
@Tiberius + Taedrin:
Eh, the storing in containers + storing in divisions proper approach seems to be the best answer. It'll only double my current number of secure areas, but the other options don't work:
*Granting another 7 people the Starbase Fuel Operator status means they can also access the divisions in the normal corp hangar, which I don't want. I want people to be able to access only their own items.
*Also, you can't open a container while it's in the corp hangar, regardless of your permissions...you have to actually bring it out and put it inside your ship. And if I put more than one person's container in the same division, it allows them all to be stolen, passworded or not.
Thank you again for the ideas though, and I'll continue to hash through them.
Are you putting the containers into the corp hangar before or after they are assembled? I know for a certainty that you CAN open a container inside a corp hangar located inside a station. I would figure that a POS or Orca would be the same.
Another question: How does putting more than one secure container into the same division allow them all to be stolen?
If each secure container has a unique password, and you don't grant pilots container access then they can only access the containers they have access to. No container access means they can't pull the entire thing our or retrieve the password. Unique passwords means that they can only access the containers they have passwords to.
I've done this in station corp hangars before, but not inside a POS corp hangar. But I can't imagine any reason why it would be different inside a POS corp hangar...
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Originally by: Dr Fighter
"how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Nathan Jameson
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Posted - 2010.09.08 04:25:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Taedrin
Are you putting the containers into the corp hangar before or after they are assembled? I know for a certainty that you CAN open a container inside a corp hangar located inside a station. I would figure that a POS or Orca would be the same.
Another question: How does putting more than one secure container into the same division allow them all to be stolen?
If each secure container has a unique password, and you don't grant pilots container access then they can only access the containers they have access to. No container access means they can't pull the entire thing our or retrieve the password. Unique passwords means that they can only access the containers they have passwords to.
I've done this in station corp hangars before, but not inside a POS corp hangar. But I can't imagine any reason why it would be different inside a POS corp hangar...
Yeah, for some reason, you CANNOT open a container inside a POS hangar. I have no idea why, but it really makes things more difficult than they need to be. Meaning you have to physically take the container out of the hangar to open it.
And if you have the permissions to do that, you can just take over people's containers during a corp theft and blow them up for fun. (I'm not sure if containers drop or not.)
I agree that a lot of hassle could be avoided if containers were accessible inside the corporate hangar array like in an NPC station. But they're not.
(Not sure if you were implying that assembling the containers while inside the hangar would somehow change how it works, but I'll give that a whirl too.)
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2010.09.08 04:39:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nathan Jameson
Originally by: Taedrin
Are you putting the containers into the corp hangar before or after they are assembled? I know for a certainty that you CAN open a container inside a corp hangar located inside a station. I would figure that a POS or Orca would be the same.
Another question: How does putting more than one secure container into the same division allow them all to be stolen?
If each secure container has a unique password, and you don't grant pilots container access then they can only access the containers they have access to. No container access means they can't pull the entire thing our or retrieve the password. Unique passwords means that they can only access the containers they have passwords to.
I've done this in station corp hangars before, but not inside a POS corp hangar. But I can't imagine any reason why it would be different inside a POS corp hangar...
Yeah, for some reason, you CANNOT open a container inside a POS hangar. I have no idea why, but it really makes things more difficult than they need to be. Meaning you have to physically take the container out of the hangar to open it.
And if you have the permissions to do that, you can just take over people's containers during a corp theft and blow them up for fun. (I'm not sure if containers drop or not.)
I agree that a lot of hassle could be avoided if containers were accessible inside the corporate hangar array like in an NPC station. But they're not.
(Not sure if you were implying that assembling the containers while inside the hangar would somehow change how it works, but I'll give that a whirl too.)
You have to remember that much of the POS code pre-dates the notion of players and interaction...
Replying to threads without reading them since 2008 |
FunzzeR
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.09.08 04:40:00 -
[28]
The Scottish Fold approves of more mayhem
PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!!
THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!! |
captain foivos
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Posted - 2010.09.08 06:50:00 -
[29]
A well-designed permissions interface? In my EVE?
[insert 18 months joke here]
I, for one, welcome our new zombie overlords. |
Hyveres
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.08 09:03:00 -
[30]
Only alliances with a structure that allows large scams to happen are threatened. On the corp level it is ofcourse different.
"Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot."
- Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
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