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Taylor Lautner
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Posted - 2010.09.04 07:41:00 -
[1]
Doesn't the pilot set and train for the same skills that sets up for a PvP built? like for example; Gunnery skills and Engineering- getting those certificates done.
Except from recommended skills such as thermodynamics, what's the big seperation between PvE to PvP?
Does this mean if I have a more PvE-esk like pilot I won't stand a chance against a same average PvP pilot? |
Dr 0rpheus
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Posted - 2010.09.04 08:10:00 -
[2]
Yes you're right a lot of skills cross over such as gunnery, drones and armour/shield tanking. However these skills are for very basic PvP, and as you become more specialised into it things such as navigation skills become more important and ewar starts to come into play (i.e. ECM, tracking disruption, neut/nos, warp disrupting/scrambling etc). But more than that the way you pvp is very different to the way you fight rats. Without a bit of pvp experience you won't be able to read the situation and know what to engage, how to do it and when to run, unfortunately you get these skills from experience rather than training.
TL:DR - pvp players have a few more skills, but the knowledge how to pvp is worth a whole lot more
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Taylor Lautner
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Posted - 2010.09.04 08:28:00 -
[3]
I do missions but I would like to cross over more to PvP- it seems that some fits really have to complement tanking and effectively handling rats but wouldn't it be no problem to just go PvP since skills do cross over for PvE?
If there are any suggestions to cross-over PvE or PvP vice versa
I just want to have a build and shoot things =P |
Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.04 08:37:00 -
[4]
Well in PVE you basically never need any warp disruptors or scramblers and speed tanking is pretty much useless. You could say that in PVE you just stay put, tank and shoot. In pvp you move, jamm, tank, shoot, loot, get out alive, fast.
Then there is also that "you don't know if there is backup" thing going on. You never know what spawns :)
One could say that you need all the pve skills for pvp as the base and then some skills to perfect pvp. Also pvp has a lot more knowledge going on when it comes to finding your prey (unless they find you). It's not just jumping into nullsec and going pew pew. Sure it works, but in most scenarios that doesn't mean 1vs1. There is that hunting element and hunting isn't straightforward.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.04 09:39:00 -
[5]
Biggest difference is likely to be the ship skills. For PVE then L3 in the relevant ship skill is a normal level to be at unless its a pre-req for another ship skill. If you have L4 in the relevant ship skill then that's probably more than adequate to do the job in PVE.
In PVP L4 ship skills are the bare minimum. Fly with L3 skills and you'll lose plenty of fights you should have won. L5 ship skills are more or less compulsory for some ships like inties - yes really, the difference between L4 and L5 interceptors is huge.
Next biggest difference is likely to be Navigation skills - not really a lot of need for great nav skills in PVE.
Lastly will be electronics. You are unlikely to have T2 jamming/painting/damping skills (if you have any EWAR skills at all) and while these aren't in any way compulsory, being able to reduce someone's gun range by 50% is more than a little useful and of course you need to be able to use T2 points/scrams
The good news is that you likely have a better skillset on the power/tanking side of things than the average new(ish) PVPr.
That's where I'd take a look - probably Navigation/Spaceship Command skills will be in need of most attention.
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.04 10:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Othran Biggest difference is likely to be the ship skills. For PVE then L3 in the relevant ship skill is a normal level to be at unless its a pre-req for another ship skill. If you have L4 in the relevant ship skill then that's probably more than adequate to do the job in PVE.
In PVP L4 ship skills are the bare minimum. Fly with L3 skills and you'll lose plenty of fights you should have won. L5 ship skills are more or less compulsory for some ships like inties - yes really, the difference between L4 and L5 interceptors is huge.
Next biggest difference is likely to be Navigation skills - not really a lot of need for great nav skills in PVE.
Lastly will be electronics. You are unlikely to have T2 jamming/painting/damping skills (if you have any EWAR skills at all) and while these aren't in any way compulsory, being able to reduce someone's gun range by 50% is more than a little useful and of course you need to be able to use T2 points/scrams
The good news is that you likely have a better skillset on the power/tanking side of things than the average new(ish) PVPr.
That's where I'd take a look - probably Navigation/Spaceship Command skills will be in need of most attention.
This. Also fitting becomes even more annoying. You really need those 0.1 grids and cpu's.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
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Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2010.09.04 10:31:00 -
[7]
PvE is like a 40km marathon.
PvP is like a 100m sprint.
Basic skills are the same, focus is completely different. Investment in 'burst' skills and modules are generally better for PvP than PvE. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Dasola
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.04 10:50:00 -
[8]
In PVP you newer know if theyre reinforcments are ontheir way allready. In PVE you can read it in mission reports
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.09.04 11:27:00 -
[9]
Some good information and no trolls! Unique EVE-O thread
The transition isn't that difficult from PVE to PVP if you make the right decisions. I'd select a couple of common ships (cheap, disposable frigates, cruisers or BC's if you have the cash) with common builds that you can already get into (or won't take much time to) and have some practice before concentrating on one particular part of PVP i.e. ewar, caps, inti's, interdictors, covops etc. If you can fly a PVE Drake or Brutix you'll be able to fly the PVP equivilent without much hassle.
The main thing I found with PVP when making that leap was finding a good corp to learn the ropes from as there are no mission reports. Find a good corp, get on thier voice comms, take part in gangs/fleets, listen to everything that is said and follow the FC's every word.
One of the most important things which is different from PVE isn't skill related, it is your overview. In PVE the overview doesn't need any customisation. For PVP you want to heavily customise it so it only shows what you need to see i.e. bad guys and not good guys. I'm sure there is a guide around that can show you how to do this and get it right.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.04 11:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Othran For PVE then L3 in the relevant ship skill is a normal level to be at unless its a pre-req for another ship skill.
What kind of awful failfit PvE setups are you using that only have level 3 skills?
Anyway, the major difference is going to be in what ships you focus your training time on. Support skills are all the same (and the PvP-specific ones are quick to train) and should be at level 4-5 no matter what you do. But, for example, the PvE player might train T2 cruise missiles and Caldari Battleship V, while the PvP player might train T2 autocannons and Battlecruisers V. Or maybe they'll both train the exact same Dominix skills and just swap a couple modules.
As a comparison: I have a max-skill PvP character and a max-skill PvE (missions) character. While the PvP character has the ability to fly all four races thanks to years of extra training time, in terms of missile/shield ships (Golem for PvE, Tengu/Drake/Cerberus/etc for PvP), there's at least a 90-95% overlap in skill choices. -----------
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.04 12:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin What kind of awful failfit PvE setups are you using that only have level 3 skills?
I don't do PVE but there's plenty of sub-20mill SP characters running around in ships that they've only trained to level 3 or level 4 (unusual unless its a pre-req). I see it every day on an alt in newbie corp chat : 1-2 year old character who can "fly" most of the sub-cap ships
Heh I have 30mill SP or so and I can't even fly a battleship yet, never mind fly it well.
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Win Gemst
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Posted - 2010.09.04 16:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Merin Ryskin What kind of awful failfit PvE setups are you using that only have level 3 skills?
I don't do PVE but there's plenty of sub-20mill SP characters running around in ships that they've only trained to level 3 or level 4 (unusual unless its a pre-req). I see it every day on an alt in newbie corp chat : 1-2 year old character who can "fly" most of the sub-cap ships
Heh I have 30mill SP or so and I can't even fly a battleship yet, never mind fly it well.
At 30 mil Sp you should(assuming you are not a miner/indy guy) be able to fly a BS quite well!! I was flying them at 15mil sp ..though this char has 7 mil and i wont even put her in a BC yet
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.09.04 16:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Othran on 04/09/2010 16:33:35
Originally by: Win Gemst
At 30 mil Sp you should(assuming you are not a miner/indy guy) be able to fly a BS quite well!!
It rather depends on what you did before BS.... Inty5, Assault Ships 5, EAF5, dictor5, cruiser 5, HAC5, Covops5... it all adds up if you do the support skills properly
Edit - for example a decent Vaga fit either requires AWU5 or a PG4 implant.
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MonsooN WinD
Amarr B4D W0LF Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.09.06 12:15:00 -
[14]
There are many more ***s doing PVP so you will need advanced smack talking.
You will need all those navigation skills trained high for PvP so you can bail really quick.
No need for cloaks or EWAR really in PvE.
Fewer caldari skills and more amarr/mini skills in PVP.
Attitude - thats the main difference imho.
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Guillieme Lohran
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Posted - 2010.09.06 16:08:00 -
[15]
The main difference is that you rarely go into PvE expecting to lose your ship.
You have complete intel about the situation. Unless you are an idiot you know what type of damage you need to tank or dish out. You know what the triggers are and you know how the enemy is going to react to various situations.
Because you have complete intel you have time. Usually all the time you want. You can have just enough DPS to kill the rats as long as your tank holds and you don't have to worry about whether or not that Core Baron has a couple Neut Domi friends waiting for you to engage their friend. You can tailor your ship for one specific threat.
In PvP you have to be ready for a wide range of attacks and be prepared to innitiate a wide range of attacks. You not only have to tank and give damage, you have to keep your enemy from running away, somthing they don't do in missions. In PvE you can avoid missions with things you don't like but in PvP you have to figure out how to deal with them.
As has been stated though, the biggest difference is attitude. In PvE you are doing a job and getting paid. In PvP you are trying to rip your opponent's heart out and show it to him while you drink his blood.
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Galan Amarias
Amarr Kantian Principle
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Posted - 2010.09.06 19:19:00 -
[16]
One additional thing I haven't seen mentioned directly. in PVP you will have to deal with your adrenaline. Especially if you were jumped and are not doing the jumping and extra especially when you are new at it. Your hands will shake, your perception of time will be highly skewed and you will have a hard time focusing on complex manuvers or lots of module micromanagment.
Plan your first fights apropriately, have a simple strategy. Get blown up a few times.
As you get used to being in that situation you will adapt and be able to run a more complicated set up or handel a higher threat situation. That is why whe you find your corp you will hang on the FC's every word and listen, not chat.
After that you just need to know that nearly everything missions taught you about combat is opposite in PVP, high dammage, enough tank.. combat happens within 24 km, rarely farther. Managing your transversal, for turret users, and your tracking, keeping the other guy out of position while you maximize yours. All the person skills that can not be character skill points.
It's a blast and the best part of EVE. Just remember ships explode, you need to be ok with that, if you can't afford to replace your ship, a few times over, either downgrade your pvp or upgrade your carebearing, if you are afraid to lose the ship you will become risk avoidant and will not have the chance to win, because the only pvp you get will be traps and those will end badly, for you.
Lastly don't fit warp core stabbs, that constitutes planning to lose, and when you plan to lose you get to lose. You may not die, but you will not win.
-Galan
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Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.09.07 05:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Galan Amarias One additional thing I haven't seen mentioned directly. in PVP you will have to deal with your adrenaline. Especially if you were jumped and are not doing the jumping and extra especially when you are new at it. Your hands will shake, your perception of time will be highly skewed and you will have a hard time focusing on complex manuvers or lots of module micromanagment.
Plan your first fights apropriately, have a simple strategy. Get blown up a few times.
As you get used to being in that situation you will adapt and be able to run a more complicated set up or handel a higher threat situation. That is why whe you find your corp you will hang on the FC's every word and listen, not chat.
After that you just need to know that nearly everything missions taught you about combat is opposite in PVP, high dammage, enough tank.. combat happens within 24 km, rarely farther. Managing your transversal, for turret users, and your tracking, keeping the other guy out of position while you maximize yours. All the person skills that can not be character skill points.
It's a blast and the best part of EVE. Just remember ships explode, you need to be ok with that, if you can't afford to replace your ship, a few times over, either downgrade your pvp or upgrade your carebearing, if you are afraid to lose the ship you will become risk avoidant and will not have the chance to win, because the only pvp you get will be traps and those will end badly, for you.
Lastly don't fit warp core stabbs, that constitutes planning to lose, and when you plan to lose you get to lose. You may not die, but you will not win.
-Galan
100% this You won't get rid of those shaking hands by reading guides or having more SP, it's just the matter of going out and doing it and learning as you go.
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Millie Clode
Amarr Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.09.07 08:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Idicious Lightbane 100% this You won't get rid of those shaking hands by reading guides or having more SP, it's just the matter of going out and doing it and learning as you go.
Spending 2 hours trying to load the grid is a good way to cure the pre-fight nerves in my experience ---------- Who, me? |
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