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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Gideon Wanders
Minmatar ECSB Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.30 03:36:00 -
[1]
Do micro warp drives work in deadspace? "We are all made of stars..." |
Stick Cult
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Posted - 2010.08.30 03:37:00 -
[2]
They didn't use to, but I recently used a mwd in Angel Extravaganza... So I'm gonna go with a maybe on this one.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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Gideon Wanders
Minmatar ECSB Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.30 03:38:00 -
[3]
What version? I heard that a faction MWD would work but am unsure of dropping major ISK on one until I know for certain.
"We are all made of stars..." |
Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.08.30 03:53:00 -
[4]
It completely depends on the mission. Used to be if the mission had gates it didn't work, but no gates and its golden. Now I think its pot luck.
Replying to threads without reading them since 2008 |
Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.08.30 05:49:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 30/08/2010 05:51:05 Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 30/08/2010 05:49:37
Originally by: Gideon Wanders What version? I heard that a faction MWD would work but am unsure of dropping major ISK on one until I know for certain.
Don't fall for that one. Either all MWDs work or none in a specific complex/mission. There's nothing special about faction gear except for the obvious attribute differences.
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Katell
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Posted - 2010.08.30 06:34:00 -
[6]
No. Micro warp drives does not work in dead space.
Sometimes you get missions which is not in dead space. You can use your micro warp drive in those missions.
The mission description always contains information whether it is dead space.
If it does not, then it is regular space where you can use your micro warp drive.
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FarosWarrior
Amarr Pure Dutch Damage Corp United Royal Dreams
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Posted - 2010.08.30 10:19:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Katell No. Micro warp drives does not work in dead space.
Sometimes you get missions which is not in dead space. You can use your micro warp drive in those missions.
The mission description always contains information whether it is dead space.
If it does not, then it is regular space where you can use your micro warp drive.
Well something I can confirm myself:
Originally by: Stick Cult They didn't use to, but I recently used a mwd in Angel Extravaganza... So I'm gonna go with a maybe on this one.
They do work in AE, which is in deadspace Always lootin' Always shootin' Always movin'
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RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.08.30 10:27:00 -
[8]
they work in some but not in others, welcome to eve where stuff just doesn't have to make sense!
guristas extra lv4 is another one where they work, but in the recon series they don't seem to work.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.30 12:05:00 -
[9]
Like Lana said, it's pot luck. It'll either work or it won't, gates or not.
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.08.31 15:46:00 -
[10]
fit one and try it out. make list as you go and come back here to relay info.
thanks --
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden |
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HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.08.31 20:32:00 -
[11]
Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 31/08/2010 20:33:09
Originally by: Gideon Wanders Do micro warp drives work in deadspace?
Yes and no.I posted the same a while back..cant find it anymore.But it was said that ccp was changing the missions so that they work.They just havent done them all yet.Some missions they work..and some they wont.Only ones I know for sure is A.E works..and worlds collide doesnt.
I wil start trying them and post my results as soon as its worth posting
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Xiaodown
Guiding Hand Social Club
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Posted - 2010.09.01 00:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: RentableMuffin they work in some but not in others, welcome to eve where stuff just doesn't have to make sense!
guristas extra lv4 is another one where they work, but in the recon series they don't seem to work.
If I remember, Recon is the one where the last part of the mission has the gas cloud? If you had MWDs, you could blitz it with little consequence; that's probably why.
~X --
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CCP Dropbear
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Posted - 2010.09.01 01:20:00 -
[13]
Edited by: CCP Dropbear on 01/09/2010 01:21:29 Good timing guys. Let's talk MWDs and missions for a moment. This is going to be a fairly long post/mini-blog because I first want to give you guys an insight into what we're thinking and doing, and why, before we turn it over to you guys for input.
We want to change it so that all missions allow MWDs, as stated in the past. Just a week or so ago, we made the changes to allow that - meaning that in the future, you could fit an MWD and have it work in (almost) every mission site. Changing it in the system was actually quite trivial. It took one lone, industrious level designer half a day to go through the thousands of sites toggling a checkbox from "on" to "off" (or perhaps it was the other way around...but that's irrelevant).
The slightly trickier part, and the reason the idea has taken a while to get traction, comes in investigating the potential impact of this change, and answering questions like...does it break any missions and make them unacceptably easy?
Recon is a great example of a mission that would require a little extra work. Most likely, we would just redesign that particular mission site.
But the question we then asked is...aside from Recon, what else is there? We can't think of anything off the top of our heads (which are pretty packed with mission knowledge after all), and finding other, lesser-known sites of a similar nature isn't that easy. We believe that around 95% of the mission content would remain largely unaffected by this change. The reason for that is because once upon a time, in the era of ludicrous speed, allowing MWD in missions would have been much more questionable. Times have changed though, and the associated risks of doing this are now greatly reduced.
It's hard for us to imagine how allowing a Golem, or Vargur, or whatever mission running ship you like, being able to now fit an MWD would really imbalance anything. The penalties for fitting an MWD are now much more balanced, and fitting one doesn't really change much, it just opens up new options, new mission fittings, and perhaps most importantly, helps make lowsec and 0.0 mission running that little bit more viable (consider it a step towards that, as we are, and not a silver bullet that will create a mass exodus to lowsec/0.0 agents). Close-range fits with Autocannons and Blasters, etc are now more viable, but anyone who has ever run a hard mission in a close-range ship knows that this is not without its own challenges in terms of tanking the damage.
Having said all that, we still have to appreciate that making a global change to a highly-utilized system like missions is not without risk, and we are not going to claim that we've figured out all the potential downfalls. That's where you guys - our best resource - come in. What negative effects from this change do you see that we might have missed? Much as we'd like to be experts on all things EVE, our knowledge often pales in comparison to the collective expertise of 300,000+ players, and in something as far-reaching as the mission system, there's a chance something could be overlooked. A collaborative design process that involves players has a much better chance at identifying risks and side-stepping them, I hope you all agree.
So help us out here, if you can. What, if any, negative effects from this change do people think could arise? What counterbalances might be necessary?
One big potential risk is that the average time to complete a mission could be drastically reduced somehow, as players further optimize mission running ships using their newfound MWD capabilities. The end result of something like that could have the net effect of increasing the ISK entering the game from missions, which is not desirable for a whole host of reasons. What do people think of that risk, and any others?
Feedback most welcome. Ask around, point people to this thread. Let's get a discussion going.
♥ The content team.
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Culmen
Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.09.01 01:51:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Culmen on 01/09/2010 01:52:18
Originally by: CCP Dropbear Epic post
And this... has restored my faith in the forums. There actually IS content worth reading here. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
HeIIfire11
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Posted - 2010.09.01 01:59:00 -
[15]
Nice one ccp..will link this in my bio and spread the word..been waiting to use my blasters
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar The Magnificent Bastards
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Posted - 2010.09.01 02:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear ♥ The content team.
Awesome stuff - thank you for the great post.
And sorry, but not a big mission runner, so I don't have much to add constructively but this seems like a fairly benign change. .
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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.09.01 02:04:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sader Rykane on 01/09/2010 02:05:31 COMMENCE THREADNOUGHT!
*EDIT*
BTW this is a stealth Ninja buff because MWD'ing mission runners will be scanned down SOOOOO easily.
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Cutter Isaacson
Minmatar Hollow World Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.01 02:05:00 -
[18]
Its wonderful, after all these years, to see devs posting in here and asking respectfuly for our help in making this game better.
I am happy to admit that im a high sec mission whQre, and I will be giving this change a lot of consideration as to the possible impact it will have. Thanks for the epic update Dropbear and keep up the good work!!
Originally by: Haks'he Lirky Some people should just stick to Pac Man.
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CCP Shadow
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.09.01 02:11:00 -
[19]
Thread moved to Missions & Complexes, where I hope we'll get some feedback from EVE's mission runners.
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Muddy Undies
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Posted - 2010.09.01 02:39:00 -
[20]
Glad to see mwd's will be viable in deadspace missions again (finally!).
For the most part, I don't see too many ways that this will affect much at all, except as mentioned, maybe the tears as mwd's will make users of them much easier to scan.
However, maybe the balance here is some missions will get done faster, but more mission runners will get ganked or stupidly shoot at can flippers. So the slight raise in extra isk will go right back to ship/module builders, which will raise demand for miners...?
I've been using mwd on AE4, Blockade 4, Gone Berserk 4, Pirate Invasion 4 (Angel version), maybe one or two others (don't know about faction versions as I stopped doing those long ago). It doesn't really make my mission go any faster, just a lot more convenient mostly for being able to use mwd on salvagecane or thrasher and not have to bookmark every room (can just salvage it then turn in mission).
The few minutes I could save on every mission salvaging (remember, mission loot already nerfed) just means a few extra rigs I can build to get blown up in pvp. It isn't like a lottery win or anything.
I approve!
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Rumple Fourskin
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Posted - 2010.09.01 03:00:00 -
[21]
This will make killing mission runners 100% better.
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Zanaffer
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Posted - 2010.09.01 03:26:00 -
[22]
I like it. It would allow more choice in fittings, and the boost to the efficiency of ninja looters/salvagers might help clear out some of those crowded mission hubs.
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Elsa Nietzsche
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Posted - 2010.09.01 03:27:00 -
[23]
I understand the concern CCP has about making missions faster to run but for the most part, speed of the ship has little to do with how fast you complete a mission. the most important factor for mission completion time is DPS. not tank, not ship speed, not drones, but raw DPS. a prime example is the level 4 mission the Score. this mission is simply stupid due to having to slow boat from gate to gate. but even in a domi (a slow ass ship) you're at the next gate before you've popped all the enemy ships. at least in the case of the domi and this mission, all a MWD changes is how soon you can AFK. I think more dedicated mission runners opt out of these poor missions. what we often refer to as cherry picking. that being said, i think there is a bit of misguided judgment here on CCP's part. at least if they really think this will make lowsec missions more viable. because from my standpoint, it just makes it easier/faster for pirates to A) scan down the mission runner and B) MWD to the mission runner to lock him/her down. So my personal stance is that this change will have little to no effect on hisec missions barring those few who think it will make lolbasters effective in missions. and rather than help low sec missions it will actually hurt them. that being said, noone cares about lowsec missions. make the change anyway, just dont expect people to ever want to run missions in lowsec.
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kurowscara
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Posted - 2010.09.01 03:27:00 -
[24]
hell no don`t want mwd in deadspace no no no no no no ab works fine so no mwd please
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Koloch
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.09.01 04:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Elsa Nietzsche
because from my standpoint, it just makes it easier/faster for pirates to A) scan down the mission runner and B) MWD to the mission runner to lock him/her down.
That would only be the case if you didn't run a MWD. MWD would allow you to a) use a travel fit that's more likely to survive lo/null sec gates/bubbles. b) allow you to quickly take a defensive position in your mission -push away from where you land.
If a pirate jumps your mission and your 70km away from the landing zone you should have ample time to a) warp out b) start shooting him.
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Alak D'bor
Syncore
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Posted - 2010.09.01 04:20:00 -
[26]
While you're at it, please change the cap bonus to +30% from -30%, thanks.
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5nipe
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Posted - 2010.09.01 04:31:00 -
[27]
MWD fitted Dramiel can tank full aggro in Guristas DED 8/10 Pith's Penal Complex while Manticore clears the pocket.
I am not missions runner, but IF even SOME of lvl 5 missions can be run in low sec the same way it would be LP paradise.
I am not sure that we may see some significant drifts from hi sec hubs to low sec tho.
Considering the fact, that decent bomber requires 6-7 weeks of training and drami (or more affordable faction frigate) only few hours, it may open fast track to lvl 4 missions for EVE new comers.
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CCP Dropbear
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Posted - 2010.09.01 04:32:00 -
[28]
Sorry, I was a bit vague on the lowsec benefits. What I meant by making it a little more viable doesn't really apply to Level IVs much, but it does apply to every other level. Granted, that's not much, hence it only being a small step towards a bigger overhaul.
What I mean by it applying to every other level: Level 1 - 3 missions can be cleared much more quickly than 4's. Some people even make their money by blitzing 3's in overpowered ships, and they swear by it. Not so sure myself, but there are certainly situations in lowsec, and more often in 0.0 working for pirate factions, where blitzing 3's can be profitable and less expensive than fielding more solid setups (which also, by the way, could benefit from 100% MWD allowance in missions). Allowing MWDs in these situations makes it slightly easier, since the afterburner becomes optional at that point and most often in lowsec and 0.0 you're already fitted with an MWD just to be mobile.
Level 1 and 2 missions, which realistically would only be run by people seeking pirate faction standing (so again, we're talking a small group here), also become slightly more attractive. In a small ship like an MWD-fit Assault Frigate, nobody will likely bother to scan you down even if you're microwarping around. You should be able to clear missions so fast that they'd have to move quickly to scan you...and then they'd have no hope of actually catching you if you're even half-awake. This was part of the thinking behind the pirate faction epic arcs, which are designed with Interceptors/AFs in mind, and are 100% compatible with MWD fits.
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CCP Dropbear
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Posted - 2010.09.01 04:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Koloch
Originally by: Elsa Nietzsche
because from my standpoint, it just makes it easier/faster for pirates to A) scan down the mission runner and B) MWD to the mission runner to lock him/her down.
That would only be the case if you didn't run a MWD. MWD would allow you to a) use a travel fit that's more likely to survive lo/null sec gates/bubbles. b) allow you to quickly take a defensive position in your mission -push away from where you land.
If a pirate jumps your mission and your 70km away from the landing zone you should have ample time to a) warp out b) start shooting him.
These are actually good points on both sides guys, and highlight some new tactics that I don't think we considered yet. If you bring an AB only, you can get run down. It's not much of a change though, thinking it through. Taking an MWD gives you counter-tactics like Koloch suggests, and using an AB only becomes slightly more risky. Generally speaking, if you can be scanned down in your mission, you're in trouble whether you've got an MWD or not, and if you're risk-averse like some of us out there, once you're found you'll be kissing that mission goodbye anyways.
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RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.09.01 04:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear But the question we then asked is...aside from Recon, what else is there? We can't think of anything off the top of our heads (which are pretty packed with mission knowledge after all), and finding other, lesser-known sites of a similar nature isn't that easy. We believe that around 95% of the mission content would remain largely unaffected by this change. The reason for that is because once upon a time, in the era of ludicrous speed, allowing MWD in missions would have been much more questionable. Times have changed though, and the associated risks of doing this are now greatly reduced.
eh, recon is a bit of a joke anyways, mwds in there wouldn't make a difference imo.
even with the changes I think there are ships that will still outperform close range ships like the 1500+ dps blaster kronos, speed/agility changes using a mwd just isn't beneficial enough in missions, too many ships at range, have to use all that time and energy to go 50km that way, then 50km the other way and so on.
however ac machas + mwd are likely to be pretty nasty, not that they even need it.
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