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Xiaolung Bao
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Posted - 2010.08.28 15:50:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Xiaolung Bao on 28/08/2010 15:54:22 Edited by: Xiaolung Bao on 28/08/2010 15:50:35 I'm a rookie who would like to make a living in manufacturing.
After building up my seed money, some skills, and study EVE Metrics to find a product with a good, sustainable demand within my means to produce, I bought my first significant BPO.
My first task, I figured, was to perform Material and Time research on the BPO. So, I pulled up S&I and started looking for a MR factory in my solar system.
Then my constellation.
Then my region.
Undaunted, I put the BPO in my briefcase and hopped in my shuttle. I then sped through the core of High-Sec, inspecting the S&I of each region.
Still undaunted, I began dodging bullets and dipping into the out-lying low-sec regions.
Now, I am daunted.
On my travels, at no place did I find an available MR factory. At most places, factories had ridiculous wait queues (of weeks).
I just want to improve my measly little BPO.
Am I missing something obvious, or is my conclusion the correct one?
Thank you.
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Maudad
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Posted - 2010.08.28 16:01:00 -
[2]
No you are pretty much correct. The problem you are having is that CCP whenever possible made this game with groups in mind, not individuals. They could have provided enough research slots for risk free solo play but they didnt.
The answer lies in POS's whose labs are conveniently bonused for reducing research/invention. The obvious downside is that this is Eve, therefore trust is hard to come by, not everyone in a group has the same goals or time to play and investing time/isk into a corporation with others is a risky business.
If you realy want some slots there are Research alliances out there who rent slots out, but you will need to be in your own player corp and join said alliance.
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Berikath
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Posted - 2010.08.28 17:14:00 -
[3]
If you look around, you can find somewhat reasonable wait times in stations (10-14 days, or if you're really lucky maybe 6 or 8). There are a few options you have:
1. Bite the bullet, install job, wait for job to finish. If research times on your BPO are long (ie, I would say at least as long as the wait time) and you're strapped for capital as you are starting up, that might be the best choice.
2. Find someone with labs, hire them to research it for you. Will be more expensive and risky than in-station, but will be faster.
3. Buy an already-researched BPO. The fastest, but likely also the most expensive option. If you are patient or you do some PE research on your current BPO, you should be able to get NPC price or maybe a bit higher from another player. If you haven't installed it anywhere, you could even list it on the market- if you do that in Jita, you should be able to get at least NPC price (if it isn't sold in Caldari space) or almost NPC price (if it is) fairly easily.
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.08.28 17:28:00 -
[4]
Part of the problem is that you have a lot of people who aren't very mathematically inclined and think that they somehow benefit from taking ME to 99 on a small rig BPO. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
Spruillo
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.28 18:24:00 -
[5]
Try npc nulsec, ie. Syndicate. Sort thru 'available installations' till you find one. Use alt scout, everything cloaky to transport bpo.
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FlameGlow
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.28 20:40:00 -
[6]
Edited by: FlameGlow on 28/08/2010 20:41:22
Originally by: Xiaolung Bao I then sped through the core of High-Sec, inspecting the S&I of each region.
Now there is your problem MR queues in NPC stations of populated highsec are months, you can find a week-long queue off a beaten path in less populated regions like Khanid or Derelik or in lowsec. MR with no queue is probably deep in lowsec or in nullsec. If you plan lot of researching done you'll need a POS with labs and if you just need just one-two BPOs just stick them into queue and forget about them for a month. Same thing with copy slots, all are usually taken.
Originally by: CCP Manifest Imploding servers are not a part of our business model.
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Tandin
The Knights Templar R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.08.28 22:38:00 -
[7]
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey Part of the problem is that you have a lot of people who aren't very mathematically inclined and think that they somehow benefit from taking ME to 99 on a small rig BPO.
I research a lot of my BPOs (not small rigs though) to ME 100 PE 50 simply because of my OCD and I'm very mathematically inclined (aerospace engineer by profession). I like having them all match and have nothing else to do with my POS labs half of the time. Granted since I use POS or 0.0 research slots I'm not really contributing to the problem.
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Joe Phoenix
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Posted - 2010.08.28 23:32:00 -
[8]
You need a pos mate.
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Shinde Kudasai
Mercurial Freight
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Posted - 2010.08.29 00:05:00 -
[9]
If a bit of ME/PE research is your sole goal, you're probably best off buying a pre-researched print. It's a bit more costly, but (as you've learned) it'll save you the headache.
Faster? Cheaper? UNPOSSIBLE!
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.08.29 00:47:00 -
[10]
There is also the option of asking around for a Corp or alliance that will let you rent their POS research labs. You will need to join their corp/alliance to get the research done. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
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NewGit
Caldari Rusty Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.29 02:57:00 -
[11]
Check your Evemail (in game)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, mine it. |
NewGit
Caldari Rusty Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.29 03:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tandin
I research a lot of my BPOs (not small rigs though) to ME 100 PE 50 simply because of my OCD and I'm very mathematically inclined (aerospace engineer by profession). I like having them all match and have nothing else to do with my POS labs half of the time. Granted since I use POS or 0.0 research slots I'm not really contributing to the problem.
I have all my Ammo and Module BPOs at ME 200/PE 100 (a bit of OCD as well I suppose) Once I finish up the remainder of the new BPOs, I'll start working on the Rig and Ship BPOs. No point in having empty slots.
Having POS's with labs makes all the difference. An yeah, small rig BPOs ? Even ME 1 is a waste of time. (I did one to ME 100 as an experiment. Wasted time on that, but gained time by not trying it on all the rest !)
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, mine it. |
Riho
Gallente Magnificent Beavers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.08.29 08:03:00 -
[13]
finding a ME/PE slot in empire is allmost impossible.
what you need to do is either:
a) join a corp with a pos that has slots for such things. b) find a respectable person who will research it in their pos for a fee (mybe for free if your lucky) c) search 0.0 npc stations...
i just built my own pos in high sec for that purpose(well invention too) ---------------------------------- Fighting for something
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Marietta Blau
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Posted - 2010.08.29 10:56:00 -
[14]
There are plenty of spots if you look i have at least 10 spots just now 0ne jump out of jita and about to open 6 labs in amarr system. Look up new eden ner.eve-commander.com/ and join for 2 mil and you will be surpised about the spots ready to go
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Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.08.29 11:36:00 -
[15]
Everyone covered the general solutions except for the obvious, not all BPO's need to be researched, assuming you have production efficiency 5 trained you can have 0 waste on some 0 ME BPO's. Knowing this you can build off those, but like any product you need to do your market history and cost analysis to see if it is likely to be worth your time and efforts, not all of them are and some will more likely not sell overnight. Even on some BPO's you can build off them with some waste provided the market allows for you to make ISK including the extra waste your unresearched BPO has, again you need to do market research and maths to make sure it will work for you.
I'm not inclined to try and sell thing naow like some people are, either traders or 'I mined it so the minerals cost nothing and therefore have no value until I sell the item' might be the 'have to sell it naow' no matter the price people. High volume at lower profit makes 'more' than higher profit over lower volume but the factor that differs the two is time and location. Also higher volume means you are working more gathering/buying materials/running jobs to keep supplying the goods and if you move them there is that as well. High volume needs a good location to keep turning over and manageable competition, lower volume doesn't but again time plays a factor.
Most empire NPC slots, if not all, are not being abused to ridiculous ME levels of 30/99/100 by lazy people, your research jobs have a max research time of 30 days so very often you can't research all BPO's to whatever arbitrary ME level people might pick. Most if not all of that ME level across the board happens at POS labs not NPC ones.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members. |
heheheh
Ecliptic Refuge
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Posted - 2010.08.29 11:39:00 -
[16]
Edited by: heheheh on 29/08/2010 11:40:37
Originally by: Bhattran
Most empire NPC slots, if not all, are not being abused to ridiculous ME levels of 30/99/100 by lazy people, your research jobs have a max research time of 30 days so very often you can't research all BPO's to whatever arbitrary ME level people might pick. Most if not all of that ME level across the board happens at POS labs not NPC ones.
This, i see such stupid levels of ME on so many blueprints.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2010.08.29 12:05:00 -
[17]
As I understand it, back in the days before they allowed jobs to be queued up, people started doing that to hold the research slots for themselves. They stick a blueprint they didn't need into it, set it to some stupid level of research, and let it run. Then, when they needed another job, they'd cancel that one and immediately install another job into the newly freed slot (back then the slot didn't stay in use for the duration of the canceled job either). All that changed when they added queues.
However, in the sold blueprint market, that has carried over. There is a "perfect" level of ME for every blueprint, beyond which research no longer reduces waste. However, most people won't even bother to figure that out when looking to buy a BPC/BPO that has already been researched. One option has an ME to 250, one has an ME of 49. 250 has to be better, right? If you plan on selling the blueprints, you pretty much have to have stupid levels of research to compete. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Bhattran
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Posted - 2010.08.29 12:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gavin DeVries As I understand it, back in the days before they allowed jobs to be queued up, people started doing that to hold the research slots for themselves. They stick a blueprint they didn't need into it, set it to some stupid level of research, and let it run. Then, when they needed another job, they'd cancel that one and immediately install another job into the newly freed slot (back then the slot didn't stay in use for the duration of the canceled job either). All that changed when they added queues.
However, in the sold blueprint market, that has carried over. There is a "perfect" level of ME for every blueprint, beyond which research no longer reduces waste. However, most people won't even bother to figure that out when looking to buy a BPC/BPO that has already been researched. One option has an ME to 250, one has an ME of 49. 250 has to be better, right? If you plan on selling the blueprints, you pretty much have to have stupid levels of research to compete.
Figures, this game (shakes an angry fist in the air), but thanks for the info and you are correct some people will do exactly that 'oh 200ME vs 47ME 200ME is better, wow I almost got took.'
All I can say is for people to educate their buyers, this is especially true on the forums where you can easily link to sites/tools that let people verify the proper ME level and more likely allow for a lower cost of BPO/BPC than those that just went to 100/etc. Even a simple blurb, like 'properly researched to 0% waste, means savings for you vs over researched BPO's' which I've seen variations of in the forums. In game though people who don't know any better will probably go for the higher ME.
-------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members. |
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
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Posted - 2010.08.30 08:27:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Riley Moore on 30/08/2010 08:31:07
A very handy site I found is http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo, very easy to look up the good/perfect ME and PE levels of any BPO.
Sent me an eve mail and tell me what bpo you have, I might have a researched one I can give you :) (only applies for the Original Poster ofc :P)
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.08.30 10:30:00 -
[20]
You have to be very lucky to find a free ME slot in highsec, i figured the same problem.
I didŠnt want to set up POS, as iŠm not a hardcore producer, so there was only one thing left.
3 Jumps out of my home there is handy lowsec station. YouŠll always get free slots as the area is deserted, but the gate is camped very often. Actually those gate campers areŠnt too smart as the never got me, but i use a covops or an interceptor to break it, but that might be out of your possibilities if your a newbie.
But you can give it a try in a shuttle (donŠt take the BPO with you when testing it) as they nearly instawarp. When entering lowsec you are in a 30 sec gate cloak so you can take a look whats going on.
When you see other interceptors or bc/bs smartbombing (youŠll be dead gone anyway by now in your shuttle) DONŠT try with BPOŠs in your hold.
Map showing you how many ppl/pods killed there is your friend as well.
If you donŠt want the risk and donŠt want to leave highsec, all you can do is set up a POS, or join a corp which has.
Hope this helps.
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Thlad Stolch
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Posted - 2010.08.31 14:41:00 -
[21]
One of the hidden facts of EVE: Researched blueprints are part of the manufacturing end game content. As such the product of (time)x(isk) is required. You either wait a bit for the research (and buy the originals) or you pay for the researched ones now.
That being said: the time investment for bpos to be researched and start paying off isn't all that long. Say you wait an average of 25 days, and your average research time is 15 days. You also invest in Adv Lab Op III on your main and Adv Lab Op II on your alts. -> 225 researched bpos/year.
Realistically, you'll probably just be loading up stuff in slots in around 8 months to 'finish off your collection', there aren't all that many bpos that are both affordable and useful.
To start, just get some ammo bpos, start the ME research and go do missions/mine/trade until they are ready. You need time to train PE V and get your alts up and researching anyways, let alone come up with the isk for the Adv Lab Op skill books.
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.08.31 15:03:00 -
[22]
there are high sec slots available just not NOW, you may have to wait a bit [18days in one region I just looked] ...
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