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Malcolm R
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Posted - 2010.08.19 22:15:00 -
[1]
Hello, I was wandering if the people from the milky way or from new eden would rediscover each other such as a new WH opening or something like that. I know CCP wouldnt include it as that would be the end of the game but do you speculate that in the games fiction it would ever happen and then what would happen after that?
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.08.20 09:55:00 -
[2]
Assuming they kept advancing we would be like ants or barbarians to them. We might not even recognise them as Human.
Basically if they didn't have a dark age and have to rebuild from scratch they would be well around 20,000 years more advance then us. Think about today and how only 2,000 years it's a massive difference.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.20 10:37:00 -
[3]
Well considering the fate of the New Eden system when the Eve Gate 'collapsed' I think we can assume that an Earth based civilisation no longer exists. It fair to assume the rest of the milkyway suffered much the same fate as the New Eden Galaxy.
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freyda suslov
Caldari Fleet of the Damned Ta8ula Rasa
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Posted - 2010.08.20 10:58:00 -
[4]
Well what makes you think that the milky way side of the galaxy was destroyed, the reason why new eden had the dark age was because it was cut off from the "the homeworlds that sustained them". So the Terrans probably continued to advance. I dread to think what technology they would have considering the colonists of new eden had the super isogen cannon thingy that jamyl had.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.08.20 11:47:00 -
[5]
We have no evidence the New Eden problem was linked to the other side. The wormhole closed 60years before the new Eden star gates all stopped working and storms started. We dont even know if the problem started at New Eden as all the gates where hit at the same time.
That as Freyda said most of our problems was the colony's are new and not self sustained. Even if the Earth empire was effected they should have recovered fast. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.20 15:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: freyda suslov Well what makes you think that the milky way side of the galaxy was destroyed
I never said the Milky Way was destroyed. I said "Earth based civilisation" suffered the same fate as the New Eden system. That is was destroyed by the cataclysm. That is a lot more reasonable that the blind faith that it miraculously survived.
Originally by: freyda suslov the reason why new eden had the dark age was because it was cut off from the "the homeworlds that sustained them".
And the colonies on the other side of the Eve Gate in the Milky Way likely suffered the same fate and dwindled into a subsistence dark age culture.
Originally by: freyda suslov So the Terrans probably continued to advance.
They can only advance if they survived and if they advanced there should be evidence of their presence. There is no evidence of that which leaves us with a corollary of the Fermi paradox.
Originally by: Pottsey We have no evidence the New Eden problem was linked to the other side.
There is no evidence it wasn't.
Originally by: Pottsey
That as Freyda said most of our problems was the colony's are new and not self sustained. Even if the Earth empire was effected they should have recovered fast.
Why 'Should' they. If Sol was destroyed as New Eden system was, they would likely suffer the same crisis.
There is no evidence Sol survived. The most logical assumption is that the Sol system suffered the same fate as the New Eden system did, and had all it's planets destroyed when the Eve Gate Wormhole collapsed.
That is the secret truth that drives so many mad or into despair.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.08.20 16:49:00 -
[7]
Wyke Mossari said " There is no evidence Sol survived. The most logical assumption is that the Sol system suffered the same fate as the New Eden system did, and had all it's planets destroyed when the Eve Gate Wormhole collapsed." But the Eve gate wormhole collapse had zero impact on us on the this side. Why would it have been a problem on their side? Is was not the wormhole collapse that caused problems it was a different event 70years after the wormhole collapsed that caused all the problems.
Wyke Mossari said " There is no evidence Sol survived. The most logical assumption is that the Sol system suffered the same fate as the New Eden system did, and had all it's planets destroyed when the Eve Gate Wormhole collapsed." For all we know Sol was 10,000 light years away from thewormhole. There is zero indication the wormhole was anywhere near Sol and that Sol had its planets destroyed. In fact logically the wormhole would have been far away from Sol in the outer unexplored areas of space.
Wyke Mossari said " They can only advance if they survived and if they advanced there should be evidence of their presence. There is no evidence of that which leaves us with a corollary of the Fermi paradox." Space is big, they could have survived and have been 1000 galaxy's away from us or much futher. There is a massive difference between the two sides. New Eden had young under 70year old colony's without fully terraformed planets, without self sustained or base infrastructure.
The Earth side of the wormhole was a 4000+ year old space empire in its golden age where it had been hinted they had colonised the whole galaxy. The planets in that timeframe would have been terraformed and had self sustained ability and base infrastructure built up, infrastructure to manufacture without Earth unlike New Eden. After 4000 years I don't think the planets where all reliant on Earth. Perhaps somewhere but a vast 4000 year old empire would not all be all reliant on one planet.
Wyke Mossari said " That is a lot more reasonable that the blind faith that it miraculously survived." It's a logical assumption that a 4000 year empire is going to expand outwards in even directions. It's a logical assumption the wormhole found after 4000+ years was towards the outer less explored areas of the empire, not in the well established, well explored centre of the empire. It's not blind faith, you idea means the wormhole explosions on the Earth side pretty much wiped out a whole galaxy, destroyed a very large sized 4000 year space empire.
I assume you are unaware that the Earth empire was 4000+ years old with many well established colony's over a vast area of space.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Eva Solitude
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Posted - 2010.08.20 17:50:00 -
[8]
if by any chance another "bigggyy" worm hole opens to "sol" or milky way.. i don't think we will see a 4k+ years old empire.. its against "human nature" p: we like creating things but like more of destroying them.. (if u remember old eve trailer its been said "galaxy under the power of ruthless corporations..) soo i bet we will see a technologically advanced race(evolution and other stuff like dna engineering etc..) but not a 4k+ empire.. on tech side even the current "ancient" ones like sleepers / jovians ten or more times advanced than us...
i'd love to read some "post-collapsed wh" history or something like that /a novel perhaps.. war beetween 4 "old" "side" of the "survivors" (endu.. yang.. jovi.. and talocans)
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.08.20 18:39:00 -
[9]
The Sleepers and Jovian's are not x10 or more times advance then us. Going by performance I would call them barely more advance then us, only by a few years now. We have been backwards engineering tech for a while and in recent years pushed forward a fair bit. I would even go as far to say our T3 cruisers are more advance then all known Jove cruisers.
The gap between the Jove and us has shrank massively in recent years. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.08.20 18:53:00 -
[10]
We known the New Eden System was seemingly worthy of being named after the Garden of Eden and that not only was it colonised but caused a land rush from harsh environments like Tau Ceti. I think we can presume it contained a Temperate planet in the system. Today there are no planets left in the system. So unless there is plausible evidence of another possible cause we can assume the cataclysm was responsible for the total destruction of any planets in the system. I certainly don't think that is zero impact. Where is the evidence of a separate event 70 after the cataclysm?
It used to be cannon that the wormhole was in the Sol system and was discovered in the way Newton discovered gravity or Einstein discovered relativity, not the way Columbus discovered America. That might be retcon now, but unless I see some evidence of this I going to assume it remains true.
While it is possible civilisations in the Milky Way survived the cataclysm, in the way the Jove/Ancients apparently survived it. At least 3 (perhaps 4) of those are now history. We know somebody (probably the Talocan) mastered wormholes so it fair to assume the Terrans could have done the same.
We still have my corollary of the Fermi paradox. If as you and some others believe, Terrans still exist as an advanced civilisation, evidence of their continued existence would be present. There is no evidence of this presence therefore we can conclude they are extinct. (One possible get out is that sleepers are actually Terran Bracewell Probes but I'll leave that hypothesis for another time).
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.08.20 19:58:00 -
[11]
To quote the manual and the older websites. "This portal held endless possibilities of a new beginning for civilization, and was hence dubbed EVE.ö Lured by the promise of free settlements, entrepreneurs and independent organizations poured through the wormhole to stake their claims in this new land."
"Scientists warned that the wormhole would close again within a few decades. Racing against time, construction began on a manmade portal to allow safe passage between the home system and EVE. A World Beyond Worlds Suddenly, the scientistsĘ worst fears were realized and the wormhole closed. Nonetheless, construction continued and the gates of EVE opened and operated perfectly for seven decades. Disaster struck once again. An unexplained phenomenon engulfed the Gates of EVE, rendering them inoperable. Restoration efforts proved futile due to the malevolent magnetic storm perpetually surrounding the gates. The results were swift and devastating."
Wyke Mossari said " it colonised but caused a land rush from harsh environments like Tau Ceti." I have been digging around and I cannot find any reference to harsh environments from Tau Ceti. I did find " The second planet in the VH-451 system is bought by people from the Tau Ceti system". you are right the planets in New eden got destroyed. The land rush you talked about was a land rush into the systems of New Eden not just the Eve system.
Wyke Mossari said "It used to be cannon that the wormhole was in the Sol system and was discovered in the way Newton discovered gravity or Einstein discovered relativity, not the way Columbus discovered America. That might be retcon now, but unless I see some evidence of this I going to assume it remains true." Are you sure you are not confusing some other game? I cannot find any evidence of this even on old snapshots of the website from 2002, 2003 and 2004. Check out the timeline
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Timeline the wormhole was found 5257 years after sol was fully colonized, although the manual ways the Earth empire is over 4000 years old when the wormhole is found. I guess the manual starts counting from a later date after planets outside sol are colonised. Either way the wormhole was found many years after Earth had a space empire.
I did find on old versions of the website " Things took an unexpected turn for the better, however, with the discovery of a natural wormhole near the system of Canopus." http://web.archive.org/web/20040617193904/www.eve-online.com/background/eve.asp this page was lost when the website had its new design to the current one. It was active on the last website design and the design before that. I assume it's still valid lore. A large part of this is also in the Eve manual. This page also mentions the disaster that happened 70years after the wormhole shut and effect all the Eve gate just like the Eve manual from the box.
If the wormhole is near Canopus then the wormhole is an estimated 310 light years (96 parsecs) from our solar system.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.08.20 20:05:00 -
[12]
Wyke Mossari said " While it is possible civilisations in the Milky Way survived the cataclysm, in the way the Jove/Ancients apparently survived it." I dont agree. The Milky Way would not need to survive the way the Jove survived.
" As most of the colonies had only been settled a few years or decades previously, very few of them were self-sufficient. One by one they died out, killed off by a lack of oxygen, water and food. The few who survived slowly lost their knowledge and hi-tech industries, because they lacked the tools to replenish and maintain them.."
A 4000+ year space empire would not be in this state. 1000's of colonies had been settled for a very long time some for 100's or 1000's of years. They would be self-sufficient and able to reproduce tools to maintain hi-tech industries.
100+ or 1000+ year old colony's would not be in the state Jove and others where in the New eden side. The colony's on the milky way side would have way more base infrastructure and be self sustainable due to years of colonisation. The Mikly way Earth empire was not full of young small new colony's without infrastructure. Why would the Earth colonies suffer the same problems as New Eden? The Earth empire is to large and to many well established colony's to suffer the same fate as New Eden. The only way I can imagine the Earth empire died out if is the whole galaxy blow up.
Wyke Mossari said " Terrans still exist as an advanced civilisation, evidence of their continued existence would be present" Why? Terreans where stuck unable to get any further with current star gate technology suggesting they were stuck in their own galaxy. Even if they got further to other galaxy's. The diameter of a typical galaxy is 30,000 light-years, our two neighboring galaxies are 3 million light-years away. There are an estimated 100 billion galaxies in the universe with a galaxy being able to have over 1 trillion solar systems with many planets per solar system.
Trying to find our small patch of kspace in the universe is not trying to find a needle in a haystack. It's trying to find an atom of a needle in a haystack. I see no reason giving the size of space why there would still be Terran existence.
20,000 years is hardly enough time to search 5 galaxies let alone 100 billion galaxies.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Koronakesh
Amarr Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.08.21 00:38:00 -
[13]
Not only was the the EVE wormhole found long after the Sol system was colonized, it was found centuries after humanity had expanded into every system that its stargate technology could take it to. One wormhole going down in one system isn't going to do much, if anything at all, to a civilization that size. Mankind's mastery of wormhole tech using its stargates would make the chance of a wormhole with the capability of sending people across the universe remaining hidden from detection for millenia extremely unlikely, so probable it just formed on its own.
Not to say that human civilization was precisely unified prior and leading up to the EVE wormhole collapse; After all, they'd been shooting each other up for hundreds of years beforehand over the resources they were limited to. They would've kept on fighting over those resources after the EVE wormhole collapsed. It's not surprising at all that if they still exist in the Milky Way that they've not found us. Space is a big place.
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Geldar Wroontik
Gallente Galactic System Lords Alliance
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Posted - 2010.08.21 01:07:00 -
[14]
The old storyline intro video said "When the stargates could take them no further, they turned against each other, igniting conflicts that would last for centuries" in reference to the Terran empire.
EVE kept the human race alive, by allowing us room to expand beyond the edges that we had reached already. When the wormhole collapsed, I don't see why they wouldn't've gone back to tearing each other's throats out.
Fast forward fifteen thousand years, and I also would not be surprised if they wiped each other out, with maybe pockets of human civilisation remaining. If the residents of the New Eden cluster were to return to the other side of EVE, they might find nothing, or they might find a society around their level, but I don't think there's anything left of the crazy technology society that was around before EVE collapsed. ---
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My Entity
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.08.26 08:35:00 -
[15]
Edited by: My Entity on 26/08/2010 08:48:04
Originally by: Pottsey Wyke Mossari said " There is no evidence Sol survived. The most logical assumption is that the Sol system suffered the same fate as the New Eden system did, and had all it's planets destroyed when the Eve Gate Wormhole collapsed." But the Eve gate wormhole collapse had zero impact on us on the this side. Why would it have been a problem on their side? Is was not the wormhole collapse that caused problems it was a different event 70years after the wormhole collapsed that caused all the problems.
Wyke Mossari said " There is no evidence Sol survived. The most logical assumption is that the Sol system suffered the same fate as the New Eden system did, and had all it's planets destroyed when the Eve Gate Wormhole collapsed." For all we know Sol was 10,000 light years away from thewormhole. There is zero indication the wormhole was anywhere near Sol and that Sol had its planets destroyed. In fact logically the wormhole would have been far away from Sol in the outer unexplored areas of space.
Wyke Mossari said " They can only advance if they survived and if they advanced there should be evidence of their presence. There is no evidence of that which leaves us with a corollary of the Fermi paradox." Space is big, they could have survived and have been 1000 galaxy's away from us or much futher. There is a massive difference between the two sides. New Eden had young under 70year old colony's without fully terraformed planets, without self sustained or base infrastructure.
The Earth side of the wormhole was a 4000+ year old space empire in its golden age where it had been hinted they had colonised the whole galaxy. The planets in that timeframe would have been terraformed and had self sustained ability and base infrastructure built up, infrastructure to manufacture without Earth unlike New Eden. After 4000 years I don't think the planets where all reliant on Earth. Perhaps somewhere but a vast 4000 year old empire would not all be all reliant on one planet.
Wyke Mossari said " That is a lot more reasonable that the blind faith that it miraculously survived." It's a logical assumption that a 4000 year empire is going to expand outwards in even directions. It's a logical assumption the wormhole found after 4000+ years was towards the outer less explored areas of the empire, not in the well established, well explored centre of the empire. It's not blind faith, you idea means the wormhole explosions on the Earth side pretty much wiped out a whole galaxy, destroyed a very large sized 4000 year space empire.
I assume you are unaware that the Earth empire was 4000+ years old with many well established colony's over a vast area of space.
I believe Pottsey is right. The EVE Chronicles/lores/histories state that the main reason why men in the EVE system suffered through the "Dark Age" is not because the closure of the EVE Gate wiped out the systems, but because the colonies of EVE system were not self sufficient. Earth and its related systems, on the other hand, were thousands of years old, and definitely self sufficient. Also the reason why the planets in the EVE system were devastated is because they were in the process of "terra-forming" and the colonies wern't able to complete the process when they were cut off from Earth.
I believe Wyke Mossari's theories are pure speculations.
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Nikita Alterana
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Posted - 2010.08.26 12:21:00 -
[16]
If I might interject a few thoughts from old fiction/Eve China Website/Old intro
1. The wormhole was located in Epsilon Erandi, also, the only system wrecked by the explosion of the gate was the New Eden system. 2. There wasn't some massive explosion that destroyed civilization, but the colony projects were unfinished, the terraforming equipment broke down, and billions of people starved and/or froze to death.
Crazy doesn't even start to cover it |
Jacobs Mori
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Posted - 2010.08.26 19:43:00 -
[17]
If you watch the old storyline intro it's pretty clear that terrans could've survived, but it's also obvious that we didn't go to new eden without good reason.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T84nrp08MWo
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Abyss Wyrm
Caldari We Don't Need This POS Anyway
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Posted - 2010.08.29 11:16:00 -
[18]
Joves, Sleepers, Talocans, Takhmals and Yang-Jung are likely the ex-terrans, who come to New Eden after EVE collaps. Talocans are most likely the one who find the way to create affiliated wormholes (to EVE itself), as EVE couldnt be used anylonger. BTW current WHs also affilated to EVE itself. So yes, its likely that somethere there is othere side of EVE, and, may be, Terra (if it wasnt destroyed or something). And lastly. Naming W-system as J****** are same as naming pulsars in real astronomy, and it means that some cenral point taked for triangulation of the rest systems. Dont you think that the central point will be the other side of EVE?)
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My Entity
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.08.31 01:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Abyss Wyrm Joves, Sleepers, Talocans, Takhmals and Yang-Jung are likely the ex-terrans, who come to New Eden after EVE collaps. Talocans are most likely the one who find the way to create affiliated wormholes (to EVE itself), as EVE couldnt be used anylonger. BTW current WHs also affilated to EVE itself. So yes, its likely that somethere there is othere side of EVE, and, may be, Terra (if it wasnt destroyed or something). And lastly. Naming W-system as J****** are same as naming pulsars in real astronomy, and it means that some cenral point taked for triangulation of the rest systems. Dont you think that the central point will be the other side of EVE?)
Most likely not. As far as we know, there is nothing we know about the original terrans after the collapse of the EVE gate. Here's a passage regarding Jovian origin from the EVE website;
"Despite this [genetic defect], the Jovians escaped the chaos that followed the closure of EVE remarkably well. Within the space of only a few centuries they had recovered, and were once again running a hi-tech society."
All the ambiguous races we know, including sleepers, Jovians, and etc, are the remnants of the terrans in the New Eden system that "fared well" after the collapse of the eVE gate. They are definitely not the original Terrans though.
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