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Defensive Mods for Jetcan Mining

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Grrah	Posted - 2010.08.17 05:35:00 - [1] I am new to the game, so this may seem a bit naive. I have been developing my mining skills and working within a Corp, but we are small - but growing. Often there is no one to haul ore or provide cover, so I resort to jetcan mining. I realize the risks I run doing this, even in High-sec, but it seems the can-flippers run no risk at all. They swoop in with a cheap frigate, flip the can, watch to see if I aggro them, then disappear for the 15 minute free-fire time. By the time I get to the station to get something that will shoot bullets, they have disappeared and/or the free-fire time has expired. (I would also like to suggest extending that free-fire time period to - oh, 48 hours or so... Please?) What I would like to propose is the option - with skill books (I figured that much out about the game already) - to provide the miner with the ability to hide a "surprise" in the jetcan. The simplest form could take the form of an explosive - skill level 1 would kill a frigate, level 2 a destroyer, level 3 a cruiser, level 4 a bc and industrial and level 5 a bs and a Hulk. Obviously, the miner would lose the can and the contents, but it might add a bit of spice to the can-flippers day. They could still flip cans, but they would have some skin in the game. A second option would be to allow the miner to secrete a portable Web-statis unit that would hold the flipper - when activated, for the life of the free-fire period. Skill level 1 would allow the use of one mobile web-stasis unit, level 2, 2 mod units and so on. Units would be lost if the can pops A third option - one that could also leak over into PvP and real battles - and is probably much more complicated, would be the use of deployable missile pods. Each unit would self-contain a targeting unit and a small tractor unit to attach itself to the mother ship. Deployed units would be lost with the usual two hours delay if the mother ship warped without retrieving. Missile skills would apply (something new for most miners) and the Missle Pod skill level would determine the number of pods you could manage. They would need to be retrieved to be reloaded. I have read in the EVE guides that jetcan mining is the recommended method of mining. If that is true, then it does deserve some support. Thank you for your consideration.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation	Posted - 2010.08.17 05:54:00 - [2] Edited by: Drake Draconis on 17/08/2010 05:56:44 Edited by: Drake Draconis on 17/08/2010 05:55:36 Originally by: Grrah I am new to the game, so this may seem a bit naive. <snip> I have read in the EVE guides that jetcan mining is the recommended method of mining. If that is true, then it does deserve some support. Thank you for your consideration. First off.... welcome to EVE. Secondly.... the guides full of crap. Jet Can Mining is very foolish.... people who do it are most likely going to get targeted...as you no doubt realized. If your going to "can" mine then you should do so in .7 Systems or lower and Giant Secure Cans. Pros: You anchor the can and password it and no one can flip your can unless your password sucks. Cons: cans much smaller...fills up fast. Best method - Like it or not mining by yourself is inefficient and just not the kind of thing people do (As far as professional Miners and if they do it's with backup/security near by). So your better off getting yourself into a Retriever and eventually a Hulk. Most miners have more than one char (if not more than one account) to help haul. Bottom Line - Most would call your proposal stupid and full of carebear tears of which they so lovingly enjoy. So complaining about the most dangerous form of mining is begging to get trolled. But you don't strike me as anything but just a simple newb (as opposed to noob). So take my advise... get a friend... preferably in an large hauler or Orca. Don't jet can mine unless you want to get can flipped...frequently. That or go find some dead end system on the fringes of High Sec space. Feel free to EVE Mail me in game if you want some more tips. IBTroll Posts. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Xearal Minmatar SOL Industries Kamikaze Project	Posted - 2010.08.17 06:10:00 - [3] Jetcan mining, for a starting newbie is one way to start mining. However, unless you 'know what you're doing', you're asking to get canflipped. Ways to avoid getting canflipped: 1. Don't Jetcan mine, get a buddy or 2nd account who hauls your minerals off. Any 'serious' miner does this, it's generally called a Mining OP, where you have a small fleet of hulks/retrievers bunch up around an orca, dumping all their minerals directly into the orca ( no cans! ), the orca boosting the miners with faster cycles, more range, and more yield, and a hauler who accesses the orca and takes out the minerals, then flies to station with them and dumps them in a corporate hangar. ( or if he's trusted, just into his hangar bay, and it's sorted out at the end of the OP ) 2. If you really can't do the above, find a quiet system, somewhere in a dead end, or other place remote, so there's little chance of a canflipper coming by to flip your can. 3. A little 'dangerous' but also an option. Flip back your can. When they've done the flip with their frigate, fly back, grab your hauler, with enough room to take the entire can with you ( or at least most of it ), he will probably have flown off, waiting out his timer, go to the can, open it, but don't loot, align to station, and just before warp, grab everything inside the can. Then wait out your 15 minute timer for flipping HIS can.
Cyprus Black Caldari 4 wing Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2010.08.17 11:01:00 - [4] Edited by: Cyprus Black on 17/08/2010 11:00:49 Originally by: Grrah I have read in the EVE guides that jetcan mining is the recommended method of mining. If that is true, then it does deserve some support. Thank you for your consideration. lol this couldn't be further from the truth. Jetcan mining is NOT a recommended method of mining because of can flippers. Whomever recommended this to you is either incredibly stupid or trying to get some laughs out of it at your expense. Don't jetcan, plain and simple. Or if you absolutely must use cans, go anchor a couple of secure cargo containers in 0.7 and below. http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2084/lolveur2.gif
Jimmina	Posted - 2010.08.17 11:26:00 - [5] As much as I like the idea of a garbage can bomb, I don't like it from a gameplay standpoint. I'm 25+ days to exhumers and I still work in jet cans. I dual box a hauler (which you can't train on trial accounts nor can you dual box with a trial account), and work through a few secure containers. However, I still find myself filling a jet can to 4-5k m3 every so often based on practicality. It's just a matter of searching for a quiet enough system to do your mining in. Even the quietest will get flippers here and there, but it beats most hi sec systems where you are pretty much assured of getting flipped every hour or so. Train up drones and your tanking to be able to mine 0.5 and your options open up considerably. But getting help hauling is not just important to avoid flippers. It'll also keep your mining lasers going non-stop. And if you do use containers, BE SURE TO ANCHOR THEM.
Vesok Toch	Posted - 2010.08.17 14:35:00 - [6] Mining is best with Orca or hauling support but jetcan mining can be done in relative safety if you're in the right spot and use some common sense. I have a hulk and still frequently jet can mine. From time to time I do get flipped and sometimes I switch to a PVP ship and get a kill sometimes not. All in all though I make out quite well. It's all about location, location, location. Keeping your eyes on local and knowing who the flippers are in the area your mining in. I don't jet can mine near trade hubs and even take the time of day/ day of the week into account when I do. Like everything in Eve it's about risk and reward.
Bhattran	Posted - 2010.08.17 18:02:00 - [7] No, sorry this works as it should and your personal risk with mining is just about zero, the belt rats hardly count if you crap fit a mining barge or have crap skills you could lose the ship to them and you did it not the rats. For a smaller corp you can have the worst yielding miner, crappiest ship use the best cargo hauling fit on their industrial they can and you jetcan they take all but 1 unit of ore as you mine and fill their hold. Someone comes along you can stop, pause, take a break or take the chance they nab the ore before your buddy does. A better idea would be to find a good system 0.7 or lower with around 10 belts or more anchor and set a decent password on Giant secure containers in a string through the belt 5k from each other so that you can fly along the string, mine the best roids in your mining range fill the cans while moving to the next one never stopping your lasers. The more people the more strings/cans you setup and maybe have several sites at belts in the system or a neighboring system until someone moves up to an orca. If you want to lay traps for can flippers have your best combat pilot pop a can, you jet mine into it and he goes away, either somewhere in space sitting in his 'uber pwnmobile ' or whatever he is willing to risk to take out a can flipper for them to steal your ore from HIS can. He then can fire on them, you signal him to come in and get the guy, hilarity ensues. Your friend can also go out of system in the event the flipper checks to see who owns the can and looks at local. -------------------------------------------------------------- Fanboys would make great cult members.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.08.17 18:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 17/08/2010 05:56:44 Edited by: Drake Draconis on 17/08/2010 05:55:36 Originally by: Grrah I am new to the game, so this may seem a bit naive. <snip> I have read in the EVE guides that jetcan mining is the recommended method of mining. If that is true, then it does deserve some support. Thank you for your consideration. First off.... welcome to EVE. Secondly.... the guides full of crap. Jet Can Mining is very foolish.... people who do it are most likely going to get targeted...as you no doubt realized. If your going to "can" mine then you should do so in .7 Systems or lower and Giant Secure Cans. Pros: You anchor the can and password it and no one can flip your can unless your password sucks. Cons: cans much smaller...fills up fast. Best method - Like it or not mining by yourself is inefficient and just not the kind of thing people do (As far as professional Miners and if they do it's with backup/security near by). So your better off getting yourself into a Retriever and eventually a Hulk. Most miners have more than one char (if not more than one account) to help haul. Bottom Line - Most would call your proposal stupid and full of carebear tears of which they so lovingly enjoy. So complaining about the most dangerous form of mining is begging to get trolled. But you don't strike me as anything but just a simple newb (as opposed to noob). So take my advise... get a friend... preferably in an large hauler or Orca. Don't jet can mine unless you want to get can flipped...frequently. That or go find some dead end system on the fringes of High Sec space. Feel free to EVE Mail me in game if you want some more tips. IBTroll Posts. Drake's advice is pretty spot on. If you're solo mining, get into a hulk asap and fit it for max cargo space. If you're mining in a group, have someone be a dedicated hauler. That way you only have to put the ore into sapce long enough for them to tractor it over and unload the can. Best solution is get a friend in an Orca. Not only do you get more cargo space than you can shake a stick at, you get the mining boosts, which let you mine faster. --Vel
Grrah	Posted - 2010.08.18 12:54:00 - [9] I would like to thank all who replied so gently to my suggestions - or perhaps I could classify them as ill-considered fantasies. I appreciate the willingness of those who have gone before to help those of us who are noobs or newbies, not only in the forums, but in the whole of the EVE experience. It is a true indication of the quality of character attracted to the game. While I still wish for the capability to defend myself from a flipper, I may convert from mining barge to battleship mining for one of my characters to all for this in certain situations. Again, Thank You all for your time and consideration of my wistful thinking.
Marcus Gideon Gallente Federal Defense Operations	Posted - 2010.08.18 14:45:00 - [10] As stated, the Hulk is the epitome of mining ubersauce. When it comes to Jet Can mining, and having your stuff stolen, I feel for you. Which is why I also went with the max cargo fit. But then I took it a step further. - A Hulk with 2x Cargo I rigs, and 2x Cargo II mods can carry 17199 m3. - A Giant Secure Container takes up 3000 m3, and holds 3900 m3 (30% bonus). - A Huge Secure Container takes up 1500 m3, and holds 1950 m3 (30% bonus). - A Large Secure Container takes up 650 m3, and holds 780 m3 (20% bonus). So a Hulk can hold 5x GSC, 1x HSC, and 1x LSC, with a grand total of 22,230 m3 in containers, plus an extra 49 m3 in the hold itself. The only trick, is to kick 2 empty GSC out, to make room for the ore to fall in the hold initially. Then you keep it inside the ship, and only fill those 2 GSC when everything else is topped off. That way, there's nothing to flip but 2 empty Cans.

Goose99	Posted - 2010.08.18 15:34:00 - [11] Undocking game players won't like this. What they should do instead is making "gaint secure containers" not so tiny.
Taxesarebad	Posted - 2010.08.18 22:35:00 - [12] no you shouldnt be mining alone anyways. can mining is only effective with orca support, who can tractor the can and hold the ore for you. the easist way to defend your jet can is have someone else pick it up. there is no other way around it. the best solution is to not mine but do mission or trade
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2010.08.19 15:22:00 - [13] I still remeaber this lol. Welcome to EVE. If you must solo can mine the best thing you can do is try to find a low pop system out of the way some were that few people pass though. And then you will still get can fliped just less often. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.


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