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prodigyk4
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Posted - 2010.08.11 22:22:00 -
[1]
For most of my eve life I have stayed away from battleships. I do have caldari BS 4 for my scorpion in PVP, but for missions I stick with my decent tengu. I run heavies with a small deadspace booster and 4x CN ballistic control systems. Of course I cant put the small booster on my golem but I can transfer over my CN shield boost amp and my CN BCS. However My cruise and torp skills are horrible (i wont be flying the golem for about 2-3+ months) and I am unsure of when to actually make the transition from tengu to golem. I look at loadouts and they are all expensive with CN invulns, pith a-type medium boosters, etc... I kind of want to I guess find a low-end golem, thats better than my decent teugu to take over, and build ontop of my golem from that point on. Anyone have suggestions? I see torp golems are pretty powerful, but the range is limited and some missions you would need to slowboat to get at the guys 70+km. Also it seems cruise is a higher level skill, would take longer to get to 5 than torps. Suggestions please? any tips?
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Caleidascope
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.08.11 22:46:00 -
[2]
I don't see the point.
People usually choose either CNR or Golem or Tengu. There is no point of moving from Tengu to Golem.
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Torpir Lee
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.08.11 22:53:00 -
[3]
I would stick with the Tengu for those long range missions. For mid-close range missions, Golem is a great choice. If you want to avoid those expensive Deadspace Shield Boosters, go for a non-Deadspace XL Shield Booster and fit a Cap Booster.
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Denuo Secus
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Posted - 2010.08.11 23:09:00 -
[4]
I bought a Golem recently. Fitted it with T2 torps and complex stuff for tank. After doing some missions in Caldari space I sold it and bought a Tengu instead. I'm really happy with that decision. What I didn't like on the Golem was its missile range. While it's enough for the most missions you still have to slowboat from time to time. Next: in Gurista missions I was jammed quite often because of the low sensor strength of all Marauders. Lastly the amount of medium sized ships in missions favours the HM Tengu.
I do ~700 DPS with the Tengu. Range is over 100km and the sensor strength is great. I like the agility while travelling from station to mission and back. Also its fast locking time is nice. But most I like the fast launcher cycle of the Tengu (a bit above 3 seconds). While this isn't a real performance factor it just feels great to have the launcher ready again for firing shortly a target was destroyed.
My decision was based on ISK. I just cannot afford more than one 700mio ship atm. But my goal is to have a nice selection later. The perfect tool for a particular job. This would include the torp Golem again. But then only for shortrange missions without jamming. This is where this ship undoubtedly excels....the Tengu is just a bit more flexible. -
Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S
R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
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RentableMuffin
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Posted - 2010.08.11 23:28:00 -
[5]
the cn invluns and pithum a-typs are just people pimping the ship, very much not needed. the 4x cn bcus is really all the faction gear you need, the rest is just convenience
I'd wait to switch to the golem till you can use t2 torps. and keep the tengu for missions where range is an issue, or you can quickly blitz them.
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trumansho
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Posted - 2010.08.17 17:50:00 -
[6]
for these level 4's. what about the nighthawk? idid see the prerequisites for the tengu were easier but i thought the nighthawk was better
just started playing again. doing 3's in my raven while i beed up few skills get hang of what missions do what, etc
do have a cnr but the resists didn't look anywhere as nice compared to the tengu or nighthawk
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.17 21:39:00 -
[7]
The Golem requires a *lot* more in the way of skills than the CNR. Ex: Missile Bombardment V and Missile Projection V are, IMO, must haves for the Golem.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Hormone1971
Caldari Blacksite Administration
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Posted - 2010.08.17 21:50:00 -
[8]
Personally, i would not use the golem in Caldari space. Its best suited for close-med enemy types, so fight Angels, Sansha and even Serp before Guritas. Yes, at close range you can do 1200DPS, but you have to be close. Its not the ship for long range enemy (unless you run cruise on it). Torp golem V Angels - mmmmmmmm, yummy. Pull my finger. |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.17 22:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: prodigyk4 Suggestions please?
Suggestions: - Torp ships are pretty skill intensive. Before moving to the Torp Golem, I'd recommend Torp Spec 4, Painter Spec 4, and all missile supports sans GMP at 5. Also, good drone skills (Drone Interfacing 4, Combat Drones 5, T2 drones with specs at 4) - The Cruise CNR will let you skimp on the range related support skills. I'd recommend Cruise 5 (CN Cruise, Spec 4 if you want to use T2+Furies), GMP 5/TNP 5, Painter spec 4, and good drone skills. - Make sure you pick up a good set of hardwirings (no matter which ship you choose). The missile damage formula isn't linear, and being higher on that graph can make a really big difference!
All things considered, I consider the cruise CNR to be a better ISK making machine than either the Golem or Tengu... but both of them really outperform the Cruise CNR in the missions where they do outperform it. Thus, I fold all three into my mission running habits. :)
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Spineker
Caldari Chain of Dogs
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Posted - 2010.08.18 03:06:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Spineker on 18/08/2010 03:10:36
Get a nighthawk and you rarely have to move or snipe or care, can go get a beer in fact and smoke while waiting for the kills.
All that work on Active CNR Golem *shiver*
I have a CNR with so much dust on it looks like a relic.
But have not tried Tengu though. So much more expensive than a passive Nighthawk.. Same with CNR Golem
Don't need any painters, or special anything can use standard missiles with bonus and such with cheap gear too although I have some good missile launchers. High skill needed though.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2010.08.18 04:02:00 -
[11]
I used to do L4's in a Nighthawk - since they came out... can't recall what I used before then... hmm... maybe a Cerberus. Anyway, the Nighthawk with Gistii-A and Amp could easily do any mission.
When I came back 2 months ago, I trained a Golem and tried that. It is uber... I went Cruise as my skills weren't quite up to Torp. The constant cycle of tractor/salvage keeps you busy while you wait for each target to pop... you also have to continually target new stuff as you pop stuff way quicker than the NH does. So for those that like to salvage and make more ISK, a Golem works nicely.
I'm currently flying a Tengu, and haven't tried it in a L4 yet. Though with it's RoF/Damage and superior tanking, not to mention smaller sig radius. I think it'll easily outperform the Nighthawk in all arenas except cargo space.
Maybe I should just try it and see how quickly it can get through a world's collide...
-G
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Spineker
Caldari Chain of Dogs
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Posted - 2010.08.18 05:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Brannor McThife I used to do L4's in a Nighthawk - since they came out... can't recall what I used before then... hmm... maybe a Cerberus. Anyway, the Nighthawk with Gistii-A and Amp could easily do any mission.
When I came back 2 months ago, I trained a Golem and tried that. It is uber... I went Cruise as my skills weren't quite up to Torp. The constant cycle of tractor/salvage keeps you busy while you wait for each target to pop... you also have to continually target new stuff as you pop stuff way quicker than the NH does. So for those that like to salvage and make more ISK, a Golem works nicely.
I'm currently flying a Tengu, and haven't tried it in a L4 yet. Though with it's RoF/Damage and superior tanking, not to mention smaller sig radius. I think it'll easily outperform the Nighthawk in all arenas except cargo space.
Maybe I should just try it and see how quickly it can get through a world's collide...
-G
When you do let me know how the Tengu works Brannor I am always out for better things, I just can't see it out performing in killing and surivial without a constant glued to the screen reaction like the golem and CNR...I always hated active ships in L4's.
Not to mention the drones whacking the frigs with a nighhawk. T2 little guys destroy any drone or frigate in L4's. Never even bother targetting them. They are dead never push a button beyound the first sic'em. Of course some L4's you have to know when drones are a bad idea and I don't deploy them.
WC is my favorite in a NH and I farm it for such and such things.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2010.08.18 05:13:00 -
[13]
Spineker. My Golem setup is Cruise... with 0 target painters. I can use Med T2 drones to kill off frigs and cruisers as well.
I've gone AFK in a Sansha mission (have a 2-year-old toddler that occasionally calls for daddy in the night :) ) with around 9 BS and 12 Cruisers and a pile of frigates all shooting my Golem. Came back to find most if not all the frigs dead, and half the cruisers. Basically, what I can recall, is its tank is DC II, Gisti B Type Large SB, Shield Boost Amp II (or two sometimes), 2-3 hardeners...
So it can AFK kill too... and with T2 drones where you know there's not going to be a spawn, they can look after stuff while you afk.
I'll keep poking my agent for a few days and see if I can get a WC for my Tengu.
-G
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Spineker
Caldari Chain of Dogs
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Posted - 2010.08.18 05:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Brannor McThife Spineker. My Golem setup is Cruise... with 0 target painters. I can use Med T2 drones to kill off frigs and cruisers as well.
I've gone AFK in a Sansha mission (have a 2-year-old toddler that occasionally calls for daddy in the night :) ) with around 9 BS and 12 Cruisers and a pile of frigates all shooting my Golem. Came back to find most if not all the frigs dead, and half the cruisers. Basically, what I can recall, is its tank is DC II, Gisti B Type Large SB, Shield Boost Amp II (or two sometimes), 2-3 hardeners...
So it can AFK kill too... and with T2 drones where you know there's not going to be a spawn, they can look after stuff while you afk.
I'll keep poking my agent for a few days and see if I can get a WC for my Tengu.
-G
Cool if I get there first will let you know how it goes! WC is far and between these days though :(
But if the Tengu works I will damn sure use it.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.08.18 05:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Spineker But if the Tengu works I will damn sure use it.
The Tengu is mad pimpin next to a Nighthawk.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
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Stick Cult
Unspoken Autonomy.
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Posted - 2010.08.18 07:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Spineker But if the Tengu works I will damn sure use it.
The Tengu is mad pimpin next to a Nighthawk.
-Liang
confirming.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
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Exaron
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Posted - 2010.08.18 10:26:00 -
[17]
Well I tried all 3 ships, Cruise CNR, Torp Golem, and Heavy Missile Tengu...
I have about 13m in missile skills, even have heavy missile spec to 5, still in the end I preferred torp golem over tengu.
First of all, being damage specific is a huge handicap of tengu. Against caldari, it beats all, however when you get other missions, then it's dps is weak. It used to take me 3-4 shots to do the damage I do with single golem volley.
I get about 65km range (67.6k actual) with javelins and still do about 930 dps which is still better than tengu.
Major advantage of tengu is fitting actually. You can create yourself a mission blitzer with cheap stuff where as with CNR and Golem, you need more expensive mods.
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iccolo
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Posted - 2010.08.18 11:33:00 -
[18]
Edited by: iccolo on 18/08/2010 11:36:05 For hi sec if isk and blitzing is the priority you cant really look past a CNR, if you want to loot and salvage use a Golem I guess, not sure how this compares to a cnr then salvaging with a dedicated salvage ship though, for low and null sec a Tengu is definitely the way to go if it's hostile where you run missions.
As for pimping your fits, that's a personal choice, the only faction mods I used on my CNR were bcu's. I'm guessing a Golem would work just as well with T2 if there's no CPU issues, it's all about managing the spawns, my Tengu is pimped as I have to give up mids for ECCM so I can't be probed.
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Evil Stare
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Posted - 2010.08.18 15:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: trumansho for these level 4's. what about the nighthawk? idid see the prerequisites for the tengu were easier but i thought the nighthawk was better
just started playing again. doing 3's in my raven while i beed up few skills get hang of what missions do what, etc
do have a cnr but the resists didn't look anywhere as nice compared to the tengu or nighthawk
For Kin damage, Tengu will generally out damage a Nighthawk.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.18 22:00:00 -
[20]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 18/08/2010 22:01:20
Originally by: Evil Stare
Originally by: trumansho for these level 4's. what about the nighthawk? idid see the prerequisites for the tengu were easier but i thought the nighthawk was better
just started playing again. doing 3's in my raven while i beed up few skills get hang of what missions do what, etc
do have a cnr but the resists didn't look anywhere as nice compared to the tengu or nighthawk
For Kin damage, Tengu will generally out damage a Nighthawk.
Meh, not so much.
As far as raw DPS, given Tengu: 4xCN BCUs, T2 HMLs, AB, T2 RoF rig, and 2xFlare, 5% implants Nighthawk: 4xCN BCUs, T2 HMLs, Sensor Booster II, T2 RoF rig, and 1xRigor, 5% implants (plus the nighthawks built-in 2xFlares)
Kinetic Tengu: 784 DPS Fury Nighthawk: 661 Fury + 99 Hobgob II = 760 DPS
EM Tengu: 490 DPS with T1 EM Nighthawk: 413 DPS with T1 EM + 99 Hobgob II = 512 DPS
Notes: * The Nighthawk has to give up its passive tank to achieve those DPS numbers. * The Tengu will have a better tank plus the added bonus of a speed tank. * Both ships have no real problems hitting cruisers and bigger for full damage. * The Nighthawk's drones are very nice for dealing with frigates, but drone DPS drops noticeably once the frigs are gone due to travel time and target resists. * The Nighthawk's HMLs can hit frigates more efficiently, but most of the HP in missions in the form of cruisers and up. So more DPS against bigger stuff is better than more DPS against frigates. * Tengu has an AB for lots of zoom zoom. * The Tengu can do other stuff, probe, faster warp speed, not look like a bottom crawling catfish.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Doctor Steinsbrow
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.18 22:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Caleidascope I don't see the point.
People usually choose either CNR or Golem or Tengu. There is no point of moving from Tengu to Golem.
|\<o>/| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| \|CCP|/ -|||||||- -|||||||- ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK WARP INTO MORDOR J7HZ-F! |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.08.19 01:01:00 -
[22]
Originally by: stoicfaux * The Tengu can do other stuff, probe, faster warp speed, not look like a bottom crawling catfish.
I'll take all the rest, but for that I demand an apology. My Nighthawk's pure beauty is the only reason I haven't tossed in the towel and trained for a Tengu.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.19 02:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
Originally by: stoicfaux * The Tengu can do other stuff, probe, faster warp speed, not look like a bottom crawling catfish.
I'll take all the rest, but for that I demand an apology. My Nighthawk's pure beauty is the only reason I haven't tossed in the towel and trained for a Tengu.
Look! Look and deny the gaping silt trawling whiskered mouth of truth that stares back at you! Deny it if you can!
You *know* it's true!
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2010.08.19 02:36:00 -
[24]
It was asked in another thread, as to the cost of NH vs Tengu.
Well, I use 99% T2 mods on everything, so let's just say that they're the same total cost for each ship, as other than the launchers, I'd use the same mods. So here's my costing (Haven't bought a NH is ages, so please correct that price). Also, I currently only use T1 rigs, and build my own.
Nighthawk Ship Cost: 300 mil (Please correct) Booster: Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster: 300-350mil
Golem Ship Cost: 500 mil (This is what I paid) Booster: Gisti B-Type Large Shield Booster: 300-350mil (last bought 3 years ago... ?)
Tengu Ship Cost: 180 mil for hull Subsystems: 330m for 7 modules (standard exploration + interdiction nullifier and cloaking subsystems) Pithum A-Type Small Shield Booster: 500-550mil
So in my view, the NH is the cheapest, followed by the Golem, and then the Tengu.
I'm sure it's quite possible to spend a lot more on these by replacing many of my T2 mods with faction mods, e.g. make it a Caldari Navy NH/Golem/Tengu.
Anyway... that's my rough comparison.
-G
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Daergaar
Caldari Yama Seki
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Posted - 2010.08.19 03:01:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Daergaar on 19/08/2010 03:01:03 Thanks for answering the cost question I had.
Is it possible to passive tank the Nighthawk to the same effect as a Drake achieves, just with higher resists? Or does that gimp the DPS so much that it's not worth it? Same thing for the Tengu.
That would eliminate the cost of the faction shield boosters.
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Dristra
Amarr Idle Haven
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Posted - 2010.08.19 03:12:00 -
[26]
You really don't need faction shield boosters on a tengu, and you don't passive tank it, a simple tech 2 tengu will roll through level 4's like a warm knife through butter.
You don't need much tank at all, passive tanked drakes and nighthawks are the size of moons, letting every npc apply full dps, the tengu on the other hand with a booster is small and agile with the afterburner you can fit.
This reduces inncomming dps to a trickle, and lets you move the ship about a bit for added joy. (no sleepy zombie drake mode)
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Spineker
Caldari Chain of Dogs
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Posted - 2010.08.19 04:23:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Brannor McThife It was asked in another thread, as to the cost of NH vs Tengu.
Well, I use 99% T2 mods on everything, so let's just say that they're the same total cost for each ship, as other than the launchers, I'd use the same mods. So here's my costing (Haven't bought a NH is ages, so please correct that price). Also, I currently only use T1 rigs, and build my own.
Nighthawk Ship Cost: 300 mil (Please correct) Booster: Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster: 300-350mil
Golem Ship Cost: 500 mil (This is what I paid) Booster: Gisti B-Type Large Shield Booster: 300-350mil (last bought 3 years ago... ?)
Tengu Ship Cost: 180 mil for hull Subsystems: 330m for 7 modules (standard exploration + interdiction nullifier and cloaking subsystems) Pithum A-Type Small Shield Booster: 500-550mil
So in my view, the NH is the cheapest, followed by the Golem, and then the Tengu.
I'm sure it's quite possible to spend a lot more on these by replacing many of my T2 mods with faction mods, e.g. make it a Caldari Navy NH/Golem/Tengu.
Anyway... that's my rough comparison.
-G
Ok a few to correct, I never have ran my Nighthawk as an Active tank, don't even need faction crap plain old Tech II and such.
Nighthawk is 180ish million isk. So yes the Nighthawk is far and away cheaper, 250 or less million and your setup for the entire ship. It is passive it is strong and it hits hard on all targets small or large.
After I priced the Tengu I will pass it does nothing the nighthawk can't do accept is faster and needs a lot more attention than the NH.
Beyond something different the Tengu has no advantage on the nighthawk in any area accept for speed and I really care less about that. Now it may be a great PVP ship no idea but I tend to not use 700m isk ships in PVP. I would rather drag out the old Eagle or Cerb.
The best advantage of the Tengu over the Nighthawk is Skill Sets. Beyond that meh no thanks over priced and far over hyped.
Golem and CNR are different beast but between Tengu and Nighthawk I will take my Hawk anyday, I am selling a CNR right now actually because I just don't have enough versatility with it. L5 with a CNR... no cap = steady pod run home.
I know people love their tengu and most likely they have never flown the sexy nighthawk I will stay with my Command Ship the bet all around L4 mission ship in the game as far as I am concerned. Far cheaper too.
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Spineker
Caldari Chain of Dogs
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Posted - 2010.08.19 04:34:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dristra You really don't need faction shield boosters on a tengu, and you don't passive tank it, a simple tech 2 tengu will roll through level 4's like a warm knife through butter.
You don't need much tank at all, passive tanked drakes and nighthawks are the size of moons, letting every npc apply full dps, the tengu on the other hand with a booster is small and agile with the afterburner you can fit.
This reduces inncomming dps to a trickle, and lets you move the ship about a bit for added joy. (no sleepy zombie drake mode)
You don't understand at 80%+ resist I can be as big as a planet means nothing. I rarely get hit over 100 damage and with effective shield numbers in the HUGE range? Something like that I don't know what it is but I know I rarely fall below 70% shield with that I can be as big as you like with 6+ BS hitting me hell I don't even move I rarely even approach anything but fat loots. Even on the most difficult mission I don't fall below 50% and let us be clear warping out = less ISk.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2010.08.19 04:35:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Brannor McThife on 19/08/2010 04:36:58
Originally by: Spineker
...it does nothing the nighthawk can't do accept is faster and needs a lot more attention than the NH.
1) My setups are active tanks and cap stable around 50%. 2) my setups are almost identical on both ships (give or take a L/M slot) 3) Both can absorb more damage than any L4 mission dishes out [EDIT:] More, as in, they hold shields above 95%. 4) Tengu does more damage (without having to worry about drones getting popped, etc.) 5) My Tengu can do all this, and explore (with subsystem bonuses to probing), without changing the setup, it can also go into complexes that the NH cannot. 6) my Tengu (currently 589 m/s with 10MN AB II) is way faster than my NH (+- 350 with same AB). My NH can't target past like 80-90km, Tengu can target beyond 100km (with subsystem change) and hit beyond 100km.
I used to think my NH was the bomb... and then I sat in a Tengu and started hitting skill level 5 on subsystems...
Yes, it's more expensive and yes, they can both do the same job (clean L4's with ease). But man, isn't it fun to just do it faster?
On the other hand, the Golem can kill stuff quickly, and you can skip salvaging if you want. It is just soooo bloody slow moving between gates - and who needs 250km+ range on cruise missiles in missions?
Just get one... and join us. You know you want one. ;)
-G
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Spineker
Caldari Chain of Dogs
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Posted - 2010.08.19 04:39:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Spineker on 19/08/2010 04:40:34
Originally by: Brannor McThife
Originally by: Spineker
...it does nothing the nighthawk can't do accept is faster and needs a lot more attention than the NH.
1) My setups are active tanks and cap stable around 50%. 2) my setups are almost identical on both ships (give or take a L/M slot) 3) Both can absorb more damage than any L4 mission dishes out. 4) Tengu does more damage (without having to worry about drones getting popped, etc.) 5) My Tengu can do all this, and explore (with subsystem bonuses to probing), without changing the setup, it can also go into complexes that the NH cannot. 6) my Tengu (currently 589 m/s with 10MN AB II) is way faster than my NH (+- 350 with same AB). My NH can't target past like 80-90km, Tengu can target beyond 100km (with subsystem change) and hit beyond 100km.
I used to think my NH was the bomb... and then I sat in a Tengu and started hitting skill level 5 on subsystems...
Yes, it's more expensive and yes, they can both do the same job (clean L4's with ease). But man, isn't it fun to just do it faster?
On the other hand, the Golem can kill stuff quickly, and you can skip salvaging if you want. It is just soooo bloody slow moving between gates - and who needs 250km+ range on cruise missiles in missions?
Just get one... and join us. You know you want one. ;)
-G
LOL I do want one I really do! Just because they are sexy in their own right! I agree who the hell wants to kill something at more than 30 to 60K range??? I like the sometimes getting 3 million mod :)
I love Angels at 7k range!
Ok I will buy one then maybe I will be a lover too :)
I just adore and love my nighthawk! Hate to see her regulated to the hanger
Also the subsystems will be seen more in the future I think if Eve is to progress.
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