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Sean Ried
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Posted - 2010.08.04 03:38:00 -
[1]
I am trying to determine what is the best shipline to follow, to get into the best PVE lvl 4 mission ship. If you could, tell me the best ship, and why? I am just trying to map out what I could get, and need the information that the community can provide. I know that the ship you use, is based upon the type of play you want to do, but I also know that I don't yet know the type of play I want to do. So if you could help me, by letting me know the type of play, I would really appriciate it.
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Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.08.04 03:46:00 -
[2]
Bigger is better so you should definitely work your way up to titans eventually. They own lvl 4s hard. I would go with minmatar because their ships are the best in all sizes. Thank you.
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Cikness
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Posted - 2010.08.04 04:06:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Cikness on 04/08/2010 04:06:12 Felix is going around razzing perceived (in my case actual) noobs.
The consistently top isk per hour results reported here are done with a torp Golem or cruise CNR.
There are a ton of ships that are a step down from that. I like flying a Tengu. About 10% slower on missions than an optimal battleship, but easy to over tank and can be a monster at relatively low skill points. It has the further advantage of not needing to manage drone agro to kill frigates.
Look for fits and discussions by Liang.
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Felix Esperium
Lysergic Distortions Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.08.04 04:16:00 -
[4]
Why do you need to hurt my feelings like that? I am trying to offer advice to help my fellow space pilots. Are you trolling me or something?
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.08.04 04:18:00 -
[5]
never seen a post asking this before.
need to just copy/paste links from all the others.
nightmare, mach is toss up. really depends on the rats and range you need. pal, varg, golem almost as good. same thing applies. comes down to the rats.
but, if you're a noob. just stick with cnr, apoc or mael. depending on what race you're skilling for.
some like to use domi if your gally/drone spec.
--
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden |
Viva Che
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Posted - 2010.08.04 06:26:00 -
[6]
Best is relative. I'll assme you mean relatively low sp and cheaper than faction monster fits that get exponentially better with your skills.
Raven, Dominix, Apoc, and Mael all fit the bill. The fits are not hard to find.
You can also opt to wait longer, get a t3, and then have many more options for pve adventures (such as exploration, lowsec/nullsec plexing, etc).
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Ran Khanon
Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
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Posted - 2010.08.04 06:53:00 -
[7]
If you aim to do lvl 4's (with which most missioners make their isk), the logical path which I took would be:
1. Frigate > 2. Destroyer > 3. Cruiser > 4. Battlecruiser > 5. Battleship > Marauder / Faction Battleship / Pirate Faction Battleship
Used frigs and dessies for level 1 and 2's and stepped up to cruisers and battlecruisers as fast as possible to do level 3's and as soon as I could I jumped in a battleship and started doing lvl 4's (thought this requires some bottom line skills and research to do those missions safely for the first time; mainly access to t2 drones, knowing what the triggers in a mission are and tanking the right damage types: eve-survival.org is your friend).
All races have good ships waiting for you at the end and it depends in what space you will do those missions:
People say that the most versatile would be Caldari ships like the Navy Raven & Golem, but if you will mission in Amarr space only for instance, laser boats like the Paladin and the Nightmare are great choices too.
I agree with everything Barakkus posts. |
Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.04 07:05:00 -
[8]
As a noob, just head for battleships as the goal. When you reach those and loose a few and start to get the skills you will know enough about eve to make your own choices. Nobody should be without battleships! Stop whining. |
local 81
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Posted - 2010.08.04 10:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: local 81 on 04/08/2010 10:00:59 Edited by: local 81 on 04/08/2010 10:00:09
Originally by: Ran Khanon If you aim to do lvl 4's (with which most missioners make their isk), the logical path which I took would be:
1. Frigate > 2. Destroyer > 3. Cruiser > 4. Battlecruiser > 5. Battleship > Marauder / Faction Battleship / Pirate Faction Battleship
Used frigs and dessies for level 1 and 2's and stepped up to cruisers and battlecruisers as fast as possible to do level 3's and as soon as I could I jumped in a battleship and started doing lvl 4's (thought this requires some bottom line skills and research to do those missions safely for the first time; mainly access to t2 drones, knowing what the triggers in a mission are and tanking the right damage types: eve-survival.org is your friend).
All races have good ships waiting for you at the end and it depends in what space you will do those missions:
People say that the most versatile would be Caldari ships like the Navy Raven & Golem, but if you will mission in Amarr space only for instance, laser boats like the Paladin and the Nightmare are great choices too.
I agree with this poster. When you get your skills trained up, you will be looking for utility slots for salvager and tractor beam so you can clean up along the way. Efficiency is what you are looking for here.
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.08.04 13:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: local 81
I agree with this poster. When you get your skills trained up, you will be looking for utility slots for salvager and tractor beam so you can clean up along the way. Efficiency is what you are looking for here.
I disagree as I kill the rats way to fast to worry about tractors and salvagers. Becides, I'm not trying to stock pile scrap metal. I just give wrecks away or let them evaporate in space. --
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden |
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.04 14:14:00 -
[11]
The most effecient lvl4'er is to walk away from those ******ed things and come to 00 finally. Its waaay better to do anomalies. ----------------- Friends Forever |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.08.04 14:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sean Ried I am trying to determine what is the best shipline to follow, to get into the best PVE lvl 4 mission ship.
There isn't a best per se. The Raven hulls are good all around, but even between Raven hulls then there are some missions that are better in a cruise CNR and some that are better in a torp Golem due to range, so it's "best" to keep multiple ships on hand. The Mach/Vargur and Nightmare are supposed to be better against particular factions in missions.
cruise Raven -> cruise CNR -> torp Golem is probably the generic "best".
On related notes:
If you don't want to train a bunch of level Vs in various weapon systems, then you can do the HML Drake -> HML Tengu path. A T2 HML Tengu has equivalent missile firepower to a cruise CNR and can breeze through level 4s.
A Domi is probably the fastest level 4 mission runner you can get into. But it's a bit of a dead end in terms of skilling up for the "best" mission runner.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Goose99
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Posted - 2010.08.04 14:59:00 -
[13]
Nightmare for Amar rats, Mach for everything else. As much as it's overhyped, CNR doesn't come close. It just requires low sp and more accessible.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.08.04 16:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: stoicfaux
A Domi is probably the fastest level 4 mission runner you can get into. But it's a bit of a dead end in terms of skilling up for the "best" mission runner.
True enough but it's a nice jump off point when you get bored and decide to give PVP a try.
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Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.08.04 17:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Skex Relbore True enough but it's a nice jump off point when you get bored and decide to give PVP a try.
Battleships aren't good for giving pvp a try. Even cheap ones.
Better to just fly what you want for missions and then skill up for a rifter and t2 autos imo. Unless you're real ballsy and have more money than sense.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.08.04 19:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Irae Ragwan
Originally by: Skex Relbore True enough but it's a nice jump off point when you get bored and decide to give PVP a try.
Battleships aren't good for giving pvp a try. Even cheap ones.
Better to just fly what you want for missions and then skill up for a rifter and t2 autos imo. Unless you're real ballsy and have more money than sense.
Well I didn't mean that one should start their PVP career in a Domi merely that once one does become bored of missions that it would be useful to have a good PVP battleship (Domi) already trained than to be stuck with with a less useful one (Raven).
The skills needed to make a good Mission Domi overlap strongly with the skills needed for other armor tanking BS's. Gunnery support skills work on all three turret based systems while missile skills only apply to... well missiles.
The drone skills needed to make a Domi an effective mission runner are also useful in PVP. It's not just speed that makes the Dramiel and deadly opponent.
A skilled Domi pilot will have access to one of the better PVP frigates and be a goodly portion of the way towards one of the best assault ships as well as the base skills to get rapidly into an Ishtar or Proteus both of which are generally superior PVP platforms than their Caldari counterparts.
The Gallente path also provides half the skills needed to access the Angel faction ships which offer more PvP platforms than the Sansha or Gurista offerings.
So while a raven and the CNR might be better pure mission ships they represent a dead end career path and a bunch of the skills to make them effective, aren't portable to other activities and ships.
So the Domi path offers access to a plethora of good solo and small gang ships as well as some credible fleet ships and part of the skills needed to access the best faction PVP ships.
The Caldari path does get you the good ECM ships and admittedly a very good BC. But mostly you get access to more mission centric ships. or highly specialized support ships.
So I still say that the Domi makes a better jump off point for a PVP career just because the skills needed to use one well are more universally applicable than those used in a well skilled Raven.
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Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.08.04 21:19:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Skex Relbore So I still say that the Domi makes a better jump off point for a PVP career just because the skills needed to use one well are more universally applicable than those used in a well skilled Raven.
Fair enough, I definitely agree armor tanking is a better direction to go in general (although i'm a fan of shield buffer ships aswell), so point taken.
And i'm glad everyone assumes a raven is a dead-end ship for pvp. My torp-monster love to be underestimated.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2010.08.04 21:30:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Irae Ragwan
Originally by: Skex Relbore So I still say that the Domi makes a better jump off point for a PVP career just because the skills needed to use one well are more universally applicable than those used in a well skilled Raven.
Fair enough, I definitely agree armor tanking is a better direction to go in general (although i'm a fan of shield buffer ships aswell), so point taken.
And i'm glad everyone assumes a raven is a dead-end ship for pvp. My torp-monster love to be underestimated.
Phoon for ganker, more damage, more ehp, and cheaper than Raven.
But in any case, it takes less than a week to train up to BS for any race starting from frigate. Tanking, especially armor tanking, doesn't take long to train either, if you had to foresight to train them after learning curve, before revamping from int back to per. Gunnery and support skills are the time consuming ones.
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.05 00:39:00 -
[19]
Best <70km lv 4 mission ship 1) Torp golem (75-85m++ isk/hour) 2) Machariel (60-65m isk/hour, minmatar space)
Best all rounded lv 4 mission ship 1) CNR (65-75m isk/hour, abit less in amarr/min space) 2) Nightmare (65-75m isk/hour, amarr space specific) 3) Tengu (50-60m isk/hour, caldari space specific) 4) Raven (40-60m isk/hour)
If you combine a golem and a CNR in minmatar/caldari space, or golem+Nightmare in amarr space, you can easily make 90m+ isk/hour consistently.
LP Payout is ~26000 per hour ISK Payout is 20m-40m per hour
with the correct agent , system , and mission choice.
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Evil Stare
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Posted - 2010.08.05 01:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Frozean Best <70km lv 4 mission ship 1) Torp golem (75-85m++ isk/hour) 2) Machariel (60-65m isk/hour, minmatar space)
Best all rounded lv 4 mission ship 1) CNR (65-75m isk/hour, abit less in amarr/min space) 2) Nightmare (65-75m isk/hour, amarr space specific) 3) Tengu (50-60m isk/hour, caldari space specific) 4) Raven (40-60m isk/hour)
If you combine a golem and a CNR in minmatar/caldari space, or golem+Nightmare in amarr space, you can easily make 90m+ isk/hour consistently.
LP Payout is ~26000 per hour ISK Payout is 20m-40m per hour
with the correct agent , system , and mission choice.
I would love you to back these numbers up with a spread sheet of some sort instead of just pulling figures out of your butt. Evidently I'm not the only one who thinks your figures are bs.
Best doesn't always mean fastest. It's not a job, it's a game.
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.08.05 02:15:00 -
[21]
I think it's much easier just to pull them out his butt.
The only way you'll get near those #'s are if you blitz missions in low sec. --
"You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you." -John Wooden |
Goose99
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Posted - 2010.08.05 02:17:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Goose99 on 05/08/2010 02:17:11
Originally by: Evil Stare
Originally by: Frozean Best <70km lv 4 mission ship 1) Torp golem (75-85m++ isk/hour) 2) Machariel (60-65m isk/hour, minmatar space)
Best all rounded lv 4 mission ship 1) CNR (65-75m isk/hour, abit less in amarr/min space) 2) Nightmare (65-75m isk/hour, amarr space specific) 3) Tengu (50-60m isk/hour, caldari space specific) 4) Raven (40-60m isk/hour)
If you combine a golem and a CNR in minmatar/caldari space, or golem+Nightmare in amarr space, you can easily make 90m+ isk/hour consistently.
LP Payout is ~26000 per hour ISK Payout is 20m-40m per hour
with the correct agent , system , and mission choice.
I would love you to back these numbers up with a spread sheet of some sort instead of just pulling figures out of your butt. Evidently I'm not the only one who thinks your figures are bs.
Best doesn't always mean fastest. It's not a job, it's a game.
Those are clearly made up on the spot, considering ships like Nightmare and Mach has far higher gank than missileboats like CNR, they just require more training. Mach isn't limited to Minmatar space, as projectile damage type can be changed according to need. Tengu isn't limited to Cadari space, as Serp's weakest resist is also kinetic (not heat, as many people believe), and deals the same kinetic/heat damage. They also perform somewhat adequately in Minmatar. All of those depends hugely on LP store selection, which varies.
Originally by: Psychotic Maniac I think it's much easier just to pull them out his butt.
The only way you'll get near those #'s are if you blitz missions in low sec.
^this
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Frozean
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Posted - 2010.08.05 02:59:00 -
[23]
My isk/hour calculation is actually very simple. and dead accurate.
I undock with the ship. I keep missioning till i get whatever LP store item that i want. Once i get it, i make it, put it on contract or wateva and call it the day.
In CNR case, its a 520m ISK item, with 40-50m Isk to spare not including loot, started taking 9 hours, but when my skill improved it took me 7.5-8 hours to get it.
In the golem's case, its a 380-450m ISK item, with negative 30-40m to spare, with around 15m-65m worth of salvage, not including loot, takes me 6-7 hours to get it.
I do this with every ship i use, and i get an isk/hour calculation for them.
Btw. my spreadsheet shows around 112m isk/hour with my mission completion times and LP store choice. However, its normal for humans to be inefficient. i can post it. but thats very lame.
Nightmare wasnt a bad ship. But also has all the disadvantages of turret ships (tracking, cruisers, random damage, falloffs), and also the amarr science LP store needing insane ammounts of tags for so LP invested. I use nightmare+golem combination in amarr space. Only.
I need more then a thousand of republic tags to make my daily items, which is insanely hard and not practical. Look at the market for RF major/col and see why.
Machariel IS bad. full stop. I was frustrated myself, mostly because of the inanely bad locking range, and also not having a salvager though being a brawl ship. It also has all the disadvantages of turret ships (tracking, cruisers, random damage, falloffs) The biggest problem is my minmatar toon has no missile skills. that means, although machariel+CNR/Nightmare is a decent combination, i cant pull it off without the SP.
Also. Golem>machariel in every single way. damage projection. missile ship. salvage. tractor. pure damage. reliability. tank. price.
Sorry i wont tell my LP store choice ;) but as long as you arent gallente, all three faction has high quality, high level, 70-80% encounter agents with good LP stores.
Caldari's problem is their best science agent is 75%-80% encounter Amarr's problem is their LP store uses too many tags, too little demand. Minmatar's problem is their system security is a lil high. but still good on average. Gallente's agents problem is they suk.
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Skeeferd
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Posted - 2010.09.17 05:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Felix Esperium Bigger is better so you should definitely work your way up to titans eventually. They own lvl 4s hard. I would go with minmatar because their ships are the best in all sizes. Thank you.
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Skeeferd
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Posted - 2010.09.17 05:56:00 -
[25]
I agree whole heartedly, Skip all the non-sense and go straight for the big dog!
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DeBingJos
Minmatar Mansion of maniacal experiments Outer Heaven
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Posted - 2010.09.17 10:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sean Ried I am trying to determine what is the best shipline to follow, to get into the best PVE lvl 4 mission ship. If you could, tell me the best ship, and why? I am just trying to map out what I could get, and need the information that the community can provide. I know that the ship you use, is based upon the type of play you want to do, but I also know that I don't yet know the type of play I want to do. So if you could help me, by letting me know the type of play, I would really appriciate it.
I advice a tengu. Easy to train, skills overlay with a lot of other useful ships. Medium weapons are useful agains frigs, cruisers and bs. It is much faster and smaller than a BS.
Disadvantages: cost -> you can always start with a cheap fit and upgrade when your wallet permits.
My 0.02 isk
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Vitamin B12
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Posted - 2010.09.17 11:05:00 -
[27]
golem ---
Corporations for Highsec pos anchoring. Only a fee of 75 Million ISK. *click* |
Vitamin B12
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Posted - 2010.09.18 12:31:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Vitamin B12 on 18/09/2010 12:32:59
---
Corporations for Highsec pos anchoring. Only a fee of 75 Million ISK. *click* |
Captain Nares
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Posted - 2010.09.18 12:54:00 -
[29]
Nightmare + Tengu for Amarr space and Machariel + Tengu for all other space.
Blitz everything that can be blitzed with Tengu and bring BS when you can't/don't want to blitz and need DPS (Blockade, Recon, Pirate Invasion etc).
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.18 16:16:00 -
[30]
My type of play is dual boxing. Orca plus mach to be exact. I think it is the best setup for several reasons.
First of all, while marauders have the tractor upgrade, the orca is better at it. 60k with no skills in targeting, 70k with skills.
Second of all it gives you the ability to stay in space for long periods of time. You don't have to dock between missions except to hand them all in and get more.
Coupled with the last ability is the fact that's an alt, you get a better mission selection.
When you say "fanboi" try to picture a fat man doing burlesque with 2 big ass fans that say CCP on one and HTFU on the other. Because that dude is me. |
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.09.18 22:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Captain Nares Nightmare + Tengu for Amarr space and Machariel + Tengu for all other space.
Blitz everything that can be blitzed with Tengu and bring BS when you can't/don't want to blitz and need DPS (Blockade, Recon, Pirate Invasion etc).
I'd say this is one of the best answers thus far.
Personally I use two ships for missions aswell, a BS of some sort and an orca. That is, I move those two to whatever missionsite I'll be operating in for the next period of time. The orca is then filled with a number of ships, including a tengu, dramiel and so on. It's not optimal for each particular site but... to perfect it you'd need more trips.
As far as BS's goes.. Nightmare/Paladin: Great for amarrspace, decent elsewhere. Which one just boils down to your isk/LP and how actively you loot. Machariel/Vargur: Very good anywhere. Same as above, the difference is much larger however meaning it's rarely a better idea to go vargur. Golem/CNR: Good everywhere. Very close in performance in total, noticable differences in particular missions. CNR is probably fastest on average. Dominix: Great for being t1 and/or Gallente. Comparable results to the rest.
Anything Sub-bs: Can have their specific missions where they excel(such as dramiel and recon). Otherwise only good if you have alterior motives to making isk with your missioning. "Tengus are cute, lolz^^" Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 26786
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Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr Inadeptus Mechanicus
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Posted - 2010.09.18 22:15:00 -
[32]
I prefere the domi for afkness or the paladin for being active. Sadly this char cant fly a pala and my alt is inactive... ________________________________________________ Tau - Yeah we suck in close combat. To bad you will never get there. For the greater good!!
Quote: "I love Australia! Our spiders have health bars. |
Irae Ragwan
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Posted - 2010.09.18 23:54:00 -
[33]
I like the mobile base of operations orca setups (too lazy for that myself, but I don't mission as much as some here) for optomizing your ship. In the one-ship (battleship) bracket though i'd say the call comes down to budget and safety. If you can afford a faction bs (mach espcially) and you're not too concerned with it being suicided on the day to day then i'd say that's it. Pick up a tengu somewhere down the line if ya like, but the mach will do most anything you need without splitting hairs. If you're on a tighter budget, need a t2 fit or to use a t1 ship then all-around winner is the CNR followed by the Domi (both massively improve with skills and can be fit to taste with faction gear later on should you want more gank).
Personally, I dislike salvaging and I don't think it's worth the effort these days. That said, if you do like to salvage for some reason or find you make more isk salvaging, then salvage as you go with any marauder. Which one you choose is most likely going to depend on what you already have trained. If you have the option of using them all, frankly, you're probably not concerned with a little salvage. Go get a nightmare and a mach.
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Moose Burger
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Posted - 2010.09.20 10:48:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Moose Burger on 20/09/2010 10:49:29 enjoy my DPS graph. Y axis is DPS X axis is range
enjoy my DPS graph. Y axis is DPS X axis is range
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