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John Ellsworth
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.29 13:39:00 -
[1]
Edited by: John Ellsworth on 29/07/2010 13:39:49
Why so Few? What can be done? How to do it?
Is it fair to have so few copy slots when older players have t2 BPO's that newer player can not obtain?
What would be the harm in simply adding more public copy slots?
Would it be fair to limit the use of a public copy slot?
Should a player with an active POS be allowed to take up a public copy slot?
Should a player in a corp with a POS be allowed to take up a public copy slot?
What if public copy slots where "static" to every player with the skills , and made available via a special agent?
thanks for your consideration and time , IMHO something definitely needs to be done here as to me this is Broken and un-playable..
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.07.29 13:53:00 -
[2]
>Why so Few? there are plenty
>What can be done? you could leave
>How to do it? see above
>Is it fair to have so few copy slots when older players have t2 BPO's that newer player can not obtain? yes as there where fewer copy slots and they where always bought for as long as you had the cash
>What would be the harm in simply adding more public copy slots? there would be less forum whinage
>Would it be fair to limit the use of a public copy slot? it is
>Should a player with an active POS be allowed to take up a public copy slot? yes - it's called PvP
>Should a player in a corp with a POS be allowed to take up a public copy slot? yes it's called PvP
>What if public copy slots where "static" to every player with the skills , and made available via a special agent? then it would suck even more
>thanks for your consideration and time , IMHO something definitely needs to be done here as to me this is Broken and un-playable.. IMTL ktnxbye --
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dunraim25
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Posted - 2010.07.29 13:55:00 -
[3]
^what he said
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.29 13:56:00 -
[4]
If you are going to troll at least make a post that doesn't make you look like an idiot.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.29 14:02:00 -
[5]
Reasonable solution (contrary to OPs), allow people to rent POS slots out to the public.
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Cryten Jones
Gallente Eldritch Storm The Matari Consortium
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Posted - 2010.07.29 14:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Furb Killer Reasonable solution (contrary to OPs), allow people to rent POS slots out to the public.
NOW that would be good! It was meant to be possible but never happened.
-CJ
Originally by: Nogap toosmall
and your understanding of probability is on par with a radish.
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Pennwisedom
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2010.07.29 14:05:00 -
[7]
Perhaps you don't understand the meaning of the word "public"?
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John Ellsworth
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Furb Killer Reasonable solution (contrary to OPs), allow people to rent POS slots out to the public.
renting a public slot? that would not be very public then.
the need for some players to keep an upper hand at non PvP activity here escapes me here , afraid of a little competition?
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:23:00 -
[9]
Fact is, the number of possible copy slots ingame is in the millions. We're nowhere near that number at the moment. Once all moons in all systems are taken, it's time to take another look at the system.
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
yani dumyat
Minmatar Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:28:00 -
[10]
Adding copy slots will reduce profit margins for inventors and make it even harder for new players to enter the market. The only possible reason to want more copy slots is if you are a high volume producer and want to put people out of business by cutting their margins.
In basic terms: More copy slots = Shorter production cycle = Increased supply = Lower profit margins.
The OP either fails to grasp the most basic economic principles or has a vested interest in screwing over the smaller producers. _______
Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel. |
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Hari Markkus
Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Estel Arador Fact is, the number of possible copy slots ingame is in the millions. We're nowhere near that number at the moment. Once all moons in all systems are taken, it's time to take another look at the system.
The title of this thread is "Public Copy Slots", and while your information may be true, it is also irrelevant.
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Frug
Omega Wing
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cryten Jones
Originally by: Furb Killer Reasonable solution (contrary to OPs), allow people to rent POS slots out to the public.
NOW that would be good! It was meant to be possible but never happened.
That would require CCP to address old issues in the backlog. Stop asking for the impossible.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor |
Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:34:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hari Markkus
Originally by: Estel Arador Fact is, the number of possible copy slots ingame is in the millions. We're nowhere near that number at the moment. Once all moons in all systems are taken, it's time to take another look at the system.
The title of this thread is "Public Copy Slots", and while your information may be true, it is also irrelevant.
While I understand it can be a great personal achievement being able to read a three-word title, I would like to encourage you to use your sense of achievement to set a new, bold goal: reading an entire post. I wish you all the best on this personal quest and I do hope it ends in success!
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: John Ellsworth
Originally by: Furb Killer Reasonable solution (contrary to OPs), allow people to rent POS slots out to the public.
renting a public slot? that would not be very public then.
1. Euhm everyone could rent it then (possibly limitted on standings etc, if you want to be funny), so yeah would be public.
2. Right now you also pay isk for copy slots, so according to you there are no public copy/manufacturing/etc slots. In which case you are just trolling.
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Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:39:00 -
[15]
There is a small issue with the number of publically available copy slots...
The issue is simply that players are not able to address any potential issue. ME and PE slots (often queued up for upwards of two months in my neck of the woods) can be supplemented by organisations such as NER. Renting out POS slots to Alliance members means that you have the option of queuing for two months or paying more and getting the research done more rapidly.
POS copy slots though can't be sensibly rented in this way though - reliant as it is on the ability to research at a local POS from a corp office in a station (thereby restricting access to the BPs to people you "trust").
Of course even if that problem were solved the question is whether people would be willing to pay POS rates to avoid queues of only a few days... But that's where the player driven economy comes in. --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:41:00 -
[16]
Just hand over your BPOs and I'll copy them for youà I have slots to spare. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Spurty
Caldari D00M. Excessum Messor
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:46:00 -
[17]
put up a POS and do it yourself.
Even rent out slots to people, make isk ;0
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Hari Markkus
Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Estel Arador While I understand it can be a great personal achievement being able to read a three-word title, I would like to encourage you to use your sense of achievement to set a new, bold goal: reading an entire post. I wish you all the best on this personal quest and I do hope it ends in success!
Ah, the well loved Ad hominem argument, it is called a logical fallacy for a reason.
In any case I still don't understand why the ability to anchor a mobile lab affects the current unavailability of public copy slots.
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:59:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 29/07/2010 17:01:16
Originally by: Hari Markkus Ah, the well loved Ad hominem argument, it is called a logical fallacy for a reason.
If you expect proper arguments and logical reasoning, you're evidently in the wrong thread (which you would have noticed if you had read past the title). One might even argue you're on the wrong forums
Edit: and what Tippia said below
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.29 16:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hari Markkus In any case I still don't understand why the ability to anchor a mobile lab affects the current unavailability of public copy slots.
It makes it a non-issue.
If you want ready access to copy slots, the option is available to you by maintaining a POS. This costs money. If you don't want to put up a POS, you have to compete for the public ones. This costs time.
Either way, you're facing some kind of investment that needs to be factored into your production and which is the price of taking part of the competitive S&I market. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.07.29 17:02:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Zartrader on 29/07/2010 17:05:56
Originally by: Hari Markkus
Originally by: Estel Arador While I understand it can be a great personal achievement being able to read a three-word title, I would like to encourage you to use your sense of achievement to set a new, bold goal: reading an entire post. I wish you all the best on this personal quest and I do hope it ends in success!
Ah, the well loved Ad hominem argument, it is called a logical fallacy for a reason.
In any case I still don't understand why the ability to anchor a mobile lab affects the current unavailability of public copy slots.
Because the availability of pos copy slots affects public use, the two are linked. The desire to get a pos is partailly influenced by pos copy slots. Inventors who use pos's are partially motivated by the availability of public copy slots. Therefore Invention prices are influenced by the availability of public copy slots. I could go on as there's many other factors to consider but do you get the point?
The fact there are many moons still free to do a pos with copy slots suggests the demand is nowhere near the possible supply. There is therefore no good reason to change anything yet.
With any game mechanic you have to look at the whole picture.
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.07.29 17:22:00 -
[22]
Edited by: KaarBaak on 29/07/2010 17:22:50 I've never had more than a 3-day wait for a highsec NPC corp copy slot (which I believe is what is meant in this thread by "public").
There are always open copy slots in NPC corps in lowsec.
Respectfully, I believe your playstyle is limiting your access, not the number of available slots.
KB =vinur allra manna
MetaGaming |
Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.07.29 17:35:00 -
[23]
Why so Few? There are plenty.
What can be done? Set up A POS (player owned structure)
How to do it? http://eve-guides.com/poss/index.php <-- Very useful guide.
Is it fair to have so few copy slots when older players have t2 BPO's that newer player can not obtain? The question should be, is it fair to have access only to BPCs and invention with risk of losing datacores and blueprint when older players have t2 BPOs. The answer to that one is - no, it's not fair. But CCP is workingÖ on it.
What would be the harm in simply adding more public copy slots? First of all, you can't add enough copy slots to completely cover the number of researching characters (alts and mains) in empire, but to answer your question: - Drastically lowered demand for POS modules; - Total crash (yes, it can be worse) of PI materials market as the main product of PI is used to make POS modules; - Crash of BPC market (BPCs would drop in price dramatically); - Inflation on datacore market (much bigger offer of BPCs, same offer of datacores) - In the end, guys with t2 BPOs would profit even more.
Would it be fair to limit the use of a public copy slot? Limit how exactly? Please clarify.
Should a player with an active POS be allowed to take up a public copy slot? Yes it is fair, but players with POS-es don't use public copy slots for two reasons: - No need to wait for a public slot to become available; - Higher speed of copying blueprints in POS-es.
Should a player in a corp with a POS be allowed to take up a public copy slot? Yes. That's why it's called "public" in the first place. Also, there are many other reasons for a POS holding corp member to use public copy slots. For example, in a big corporation there are players that reserve the rights to use POSes in the first place and other players don't have the roles to use POS laboratories because they don't belong to the industrial department of the corp. If player just want to copy something for himself, the only option is to use a public copy slot.
What if public copy slots where "static" to every player with the skills , and made available via a special agent? That would totally annihilate the industry and economy in EVE.
----- To summarize, slots are fine the way they are now. If you want to have profit, you must invest. You can set up a POS for 500mil (medium) or 1.5bil (large) POS in any 0.5 0.6 or 0.7 highsec system. The cost of fuel is now lowest ever since the introduction of planetary materials. Back in the old days (before PI) I used to run a medium POS all by myself. The cost of the fuel was fluctuating around 100mil per month and the profit was around 200mil per month (although it could be much bigger, but I haven't focused strictly on research). The only broken part is the existence of t2 BPOs and their huge advantage over invented BPCs, but that is a long story not related directly to this thread.
I hope this helps. Cheers, Anti
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Patri Andari
Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2010.07.29 17:45:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Cryten Jones
Originally by: Furb Killer Reasonable solution (contrary to OPs), allow people to rent POS slots out to the public.
NOW that would be good! It was meant to be possible but never happened.
That would require CCP to address old issues in the backlog. Stop asking for the impossible.
It is not impossible! It may require some damned resources and manpower thrown at it. *cough* Incarna *cough* Anyone interested in advancing this issue should support this.
Patri
I'll Roshambo You For That Titan! |
Phosphorus Palladium
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Posted - 2010.07.29 17:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: RaTTuS >What would be the harm in simply adding more public copy slots? there would be less forum whinage
Most of the forum whinage currently comes from the 0.0 blobbers.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.07.29 19:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Pampers What can be done?
Put a pos up you big cry baby.
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John Ellsworth
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.29 23:24:00 -
[27]
Originally by: KaarBaak Edited by: KaarBaak on 29/07/2010 17:22:50 I've never had more than a 3-day wait for a highsec NPC corp copy slot (which I believe is what is meant in this thread by "public").
There are always open copy slots in NPC corps in lowsec.
Respectfully, I believe your playstyle is limiting your access, not the number of available slots.
KB
on average short time is 5 to 20 days /// long time is 20 to 100 days /// only 10 per station and not every station has copying as an option. If all stations had some slots it would be a non issue . If the stations that currently offer copying had 200 percent more slots available it would be a non issue. The thing is it is an issue as it stands currently, especially to the player that benefits the most from public copy shots , the new and less experienced player. Note :: I just looked at my entire region ...there was not one open copy slot to be seen 4 out of the lot where at 3 days .. the next available time to open one was 5 days,
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.07.29 23:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: John Ellsworth The thing is it is an issue as it stands currently, especially to the player that benefits the most from public copy shots , the new and less experienced player.
Why is it an issue?
There are ways around it, and it's a part of doing business. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
KaarBaak
Minmatar Hell's Librarians Imperium Directive
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Posted - 2010.07.30 00:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: John Ellsworth
Originally by: KaarBaak Edited by: KaarBaak on 29/07/2010 17:22:50 I've never had more than a 3-day wait for a highsec NPC corp copy slot (which I believe is what is meant in this thread by "public").
There are always open copy slots in NPC corps in lowsec.
Respectfully, I believe your playstyle is limiting your access, not the number of available slots.
KB
on average short time is 5 to 20 days /// long time is 20 to 100 days /// only 10 per station and not every station has copying as an option. If all stations had some slots it would be a non issue . If the stations that currently offer copying had 200 percent more slots available it would be a non issue. The thing is it is an issue as it stands currently, especially to the player that benefits the most from public copy shots , the new and less experienced player. Note :: I just looked at my entire region ...there was not one open copy slot to be seen 4 out of the lot where at 3 days .. the next available time to open one was 5 days,
So, there is a slot open that is shorter than your minimum "short" time, and that is a problem?
KB
=vinur allra manna
MetaGaming |
Unity Love
Caldari Dissonance Corp The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2010.07.30 00:38:00 -
[30]
THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT LAG.
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